I have been debating a friend about the enforceability of stop signs on private property. I thought that it might be fun to ask an expert. If I roll a stop sign in the Walmart parking lot, can I get a ticket for it?

Yes... they can be enforced.

See FSS 316.640(3)(a) for Municipalities and FSS 316.640(2)(a) for counties.

Ha. I thought so. Thanks for the reply. I wasn't able to find it on my own.

Once upon a time, two decades ago, I was leaving the Indian River Mall after a movie late one night.  My girlfriend had come straight from work and met me there, so we were in two cars.  Just after 1 a.m., with nobody around, she blew through a stop sign in front of me on the ring road around the mall, and I followed her through it.  A cop in the parking lot gave me a ticket for blowing the stop.  It was a stupid stop sign, it had no business being there, and not three weeks later (before I even paid the ticket) they removed it.  Twenty years later, they've never put it back.

So yes, cops can enforce stop signs on private property, and you still have to pay them, even if they're stupid, and even if they later remove the sign.

Ask you friend who thinks the signs are not enforceable, if he also thinks handicap parking spaces, fire lanes, no parking zones, etc. are not enforceable.

Even if it's not posted, in residential or business areas, don't forget to stop before the sidewalk or edge of the roadway (if no sidewalk) when exiting private property on to the public roadway 316.125(2).

I believe that the Law Enforment Agency must have a prior written agreement with the private property owners (i.e. homeowners association, shopping center, etc...). See bold and underlined text.

FSS 316.640(3)

(a) The police department of each chartered municipality shall enforce the traffic laws of this state on all the streets and highways thereof and elsewhere throughout the municipality wherever the public has the right to travel by motor vehicle. In addition, the police department may be required by a municipality to enforce the traffic laws of this state on any private or limited access road or roads over which the municipality has jurisdiction pursuant to a written agreement entered into under s. 316.006(2)(b). However, nothing in this chapter shall affect any law, general, special, or otherwise, in effect on January 1, 1972, relating to “hot pursuit” without the boundaries of the municipality.

I didn't know that, I was under the impression that stop signs on private property were not enforceable as they are not DOT legal stop signs on size/height.

That's a good question..

GoinDeep is on the right track....the cops have to have permission to do so....Yes almost everyone gives this permission. The handi-capped is a good example. Stop signs that make no sense - don't matter. I almost got a ticket for parking in a handi-cap spot.....Wife was in a soft cast for her broken ankle...we were leaving the mall....it was raining....I went and got the car...pulled up as close as I could to the walkway near where my wife was....the back half of my car was blocking a handi-capped spot....that spot and 5 more next to it were empty! As my wife is getting in the car, here comes deputy dipstick....you are getting a 250.00 ticket...no I'm not - use your brain, I am preventing nobody from parking here....we go back and forth - in the rain....I leave - no ticket....dipstick!

 

Incorrect.

What the statute above refers to are SPECIAL DISTRICTS and roads and streets that fall within.  Down here where I work, we have lots of SPECIAL DISTRICTS whose roads ARE NOT considered "open to the public" and thus can be gated or guarded by private security.  You generally see this in high end retirement communities.

Private parking lots are PUBLIC ACCESS and NOT "streets and roads" as referred to in the statute above... whereas "Gated Communities" and "Special Districts" roads and streets are not (thus privately regulated).  

Think of it this way... you need authorization and permission to enter "gated communities" and "special districts" as they are private property areas NOT open to casual public access.  Wal-Mart, while IS private property, the public has open access and needs no authorization or permission to enter.

We must have a written agreement to enforce traffic laws (except reckless driving and DUI) on roads and streets within SPECIAL DISTRICTS... this law does not effect enforcement authority in general public access areas such as business area parking lots.

Trust me on this one...

(2) COUNTIES.—

(a) The sheriff’s office of each of the several counties of this state shall enforce all of the traffic laws of this state on all the streets and highways thereof and elsewhere throughout the county wherever the public has the right to travel by motor vehicle. In addition, the sheriff’s office may be required by the county to enforce the traffic laws of this state on any private or limited access road or roads over which the county has jurisdiction pursuant to a written agreement entered into under s. 316.006(3)(b).

This^

Had a buddy have trouble with a rolling stop in an empty parking lot once.  Got a ticket.    He had the time to deal with it--so he measured the stop sign ( too high) , took pics of it being partially obstructed by a tree and got off.  Would not be worth having to take off from work, etc. for most people.

When I go to Walmart late at night and they have 6 stop signs from the front to the side entrance, if nobody is around I don't even slow down for them.

Yep I missed that part Bowhntr6pt.. Thanks for the clairification.

There's a Target near me that was converted out of something else (or maybe they just took away the garden center).  It's got stop signs at the entrance (front right corner), about halfway down the front of the store (for no fucking reason I can discern), and then at what used to be the garden center (front left corner).  The garden center is closed up and unused, so there's no reason to stop there, ever, because there's no foot traffic there, ever.  And I really have no idea what the point of the one halfway across the front is.  It doesn't line up with any doors or marked crosswalks.  I stop at the one at the front door, but I ignore the hell out of the other two.

Last month,  I was pulled for not stopping for a non existing stop sign at WallWorld.  When I pointed out that there was no sign, the cop was flummoxed!  Laughed my ass off!

  There is a state law that does not allow multiple stop signs within a certain distance of each other. 100 or 200 yards IIRC.  You could challenge the ticket on that basis too. Fla state law also clearly states that stop signs are to be used as traffic control devices and not speed control devices so those multiple stop sings in front of stores aren't legal for that reason either.


    I would also challenge any stop sign on private property since the state law says any place that the public has a right to drive.  I would contend that the public does not have a right to drive in a mall, or shopping center or on any other private property.  The public is only allowed to drive there at times and condtiions that the owners permit. The fact the owners of such areas frequently close them alltogether for holidays, special events, remodeling, etc is proof that the public does not have a right to drive there.

That's exactly what I thought as soon as I read that. Even the state says that driving on public roads is not a right but a privilege. And it certainly is not a right to enter someone else's private property.

Plus, as someone mentioned earlier, don't road signs need to meet DOT specifications? According to other poster's interpretation of this law, wooden & novelty stop signs (like shown below) are legally enforceable?

Unless said stop sign has a legal DOT sticker on the back then they cannot give you a ticket which will hold up in court. It can be easily overturned without having that sticker.

Check this out

EDIT: Not all stickers will look the same.

link isn't working

Business can't just slap up random signs and have them enforced.

With that said... "Careless Driving" is a catch-all charge... it is used most often when violations of Rights of Ways occur and other "moving violations" occur such as IMPROPER BACKING, FOLLOWING TOO CLOSE, FAILURE TO YIELD, etc..  No sticker necessary...

Florida also has a yield law reference entering the roadway from private property (stop sign or no stop sign)... I'm on the road now and don't have my law book/cheat sheet with me.

In all my years of LE work... I've yet to see a Parking Lot/Private Property citation issued NOT in connection with a traffic crash.  So even if you disregard/violate a non-DOT approved Traffic Control Device (that's what they are called), there are other enforcement options... me... I have better things to do with my time.

BTW... the link does not work... I'd be interested in seeing what it was so perhaps I can learn something new.

Sorry guys, it was working earlier. Here it is on imgur.

Link

... now, if we can just recruit a volunteer to put this to the test...

Had a fender bender in Destin at BB. The other guy wanted to have the Sheriff come out. He was at fault.
Sheriff shows up and says he can't do an accident report as it was on private property.
I think the guy was gunning to make sure his ins wouldn't have to pony up. His ins company tried to assign 50/50, which was BS.
He hit me in the left rear corner of my Jeep. He was in a Toyota FJ Cruiser and had a big wheel chair carrier folded up and a totally obstructed rear view.
His ins tried the 50/50 crap, so I had my ins company take it to arbitration. I won.

Moral of the story: don't expect the local LE to enforce the law if they chose not to on PP.

That first part (distance between and speed control) is pretty interesting.  I'm going to do some investigating into that.  Thanks.