User Panel
Born with a low tolerance for bullshit
KY, USA
|
[#2]
Originally Posted By SWIRE: @Kitties-with-Sigs I'm curious at what your prediction will be about the walnut experiment that I am running this year. All last year as the walnut trees were losing limbs and nuts I was placing them in a spot to create a test bed. I had 100s of walnuts decomposing, tons of leaves, twigs, and even some decent size branches all to create a juglone hotspot. This spring I tilled it all into the ground and put out 5 of my test line of tomato plants and 2 Rutgers tomato plants grown by the local FFA greenhouse. The 4x4 in the image is 16' long to give you a bit of scale. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/680/walnut_garden_2024_1-3207589.jpg All tilled in and it is clear where the walnuts were as they stained the soil. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/680/walnut_garden_2024_tilled-3207588.jpg You can still see whole walnuts everywhere https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/680/walnut_garden_2024_planted-3207586.jpg The dark circles are walnuts that were still on top of the soil. Pictured are 3 of my line of tomato and the 2 Rutgers plants the top. Neither of them had any immediate reaction to being placed in the soil. The real measure will be in the new growth and what it looks like and then big test comes as soon as hot and dry weather hits. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/680/walnut_garden_2024_planted2-3207585.jpg View Quote My first prediction is that you won't be able to find the tomatoes because of the hundreds of walnut seedlings coming up. That said, I admit that I'm skeptical because of the level of juglone you've built up there. Of course I don't expect the Rutgers to do well. Do you have any more of the SWIRE line of seedlings? Would love it if you would ALSO do an experiment outdoors in soil that is not so heavily augmented with the juglone. Like a "normal" level of juglone. Here's the thing-- I have not been able to find any really good research about how long juglone persists in the soil. I believe it is persistant, but not FOREVER persistant. I think, were it forever persistant, that you'd have old-timers saying, "don't buy that land. It's contaminated with walnut and nuthin good will grow," etc etc. They don't. Which means that over time, that chemical will lose efficacy through leaching and through normal root cycling and soil processes, and we can once again grow intolerant species in that soil. Combined with that theory (and it is only a theory) you have to take into account, what if the trees are still there, leaching hydrojuglone every time it rains, which then fixes in the soil and here we go again....? So it's not a simple "this or that" scenario, but we have to reduce it to simple questions to properly experiment. To develop a tolerant tomato that would grow in, say, a planter box that was filled with, maybe, peat-based potting mix, but that was UNDER a Juglans nigra would be an accomplishment indeed! And what if that soil mix was not removed and replaced, but simply augmented with compost the following year, and the tomatoes still grew and produced. That would be life changing for some gardeners. So there is so much to unpack, it's almost too big to think about. I really like that you still have this going on, and I love that you are trying to develop a juglone-resistant variety. |
Nobody ever wakes me at 2 in the morning telling me that my grass is out on the highway.~~Radiopat
Wine is sunlight held together by water~~Galileo Galilei Well-behaved women rarely make history~~Marilyn Monroe |
Born with a low tolerance for bullshit
KY, USA
|
[#3]
Originally Posted By SWIRE: For my regular tomato and pepper garden the area used to be lawn and still grows a good amount of grass and weeds. It gets so bad that I give up trying to weed it and just take the weed eater between rows. This year I decided to try to amend the soil and fight the grass. The city give away free compost and wood chips the first Saturday of the month so I borrowed a friends trailer and had 1.5 yards of compost and 4.5 yards of chips loaded on to it. I don't have an after photo yet as it has been dark ever night when I finish and then raining. I finally broke down and bought my own tiller. I had to go over it multiple times to break up the clay clumps that are just under the surface. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/680/tomatoes_2024_tiller-3207600.jpg Planted the tomatoes and peppers putting some mulch around the plants to keep them out of the dirt as rain was coming. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/680/tomatoes_2024_1-3207598.jpg Added about 2 inches of compost on top the soil. Put a layer of nitrogen fertilizer on top of that, and not pictures is another 2-3 inches of wood chips on top of the compost. The compost was not fully digested. That may be helpful in keeping the grass away or it maybe too harsh and kill of my plants. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/680/tomatoes_2024_2-3207599.jpg View Quote If you can install ANY KIND of edges on that plot, even the cheap plastic edging from the big box store, your weeding job will get easier. Edging is 3/4 of weed control. |
Nobody ever wakes me at 2 in the morning telling me that my grass is out on the highway.~~Radiopat
Wine is sunlight held together by water~~Galileo Galilei Well-behaved women rarely make history~~Marilyn Monroe |
[#5]
Originally Posted By Kitties-with-Sigs: If you can install ANY KIND of edges on that plot, even the cheap plastic edging from the big box store, your weeding job will get easier. Edging is 3/4 of weed control. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By Kitties-with-Sigs: Originally Posted By SWIRE: For my regular tomato and pepper garden the area used to be lawn and still grows a good amount of grass and weeds. It gets so bad that I give up trying to weed it and just take the weed eater between rows. This year I decided to try to amend the soil and fight the grass. The city give away free compost and wood chips the first Saturday of the month so I borrowed a friends trailer and had 1.5 yards of compost and 4.5 yards of chips loaded on to it. I don't have an after photo yet as it has been dark ever night when I finish and then raining. I finally broke down and bought my own tiller. I had to go over it multiple times to break up the clay clumps that are just under the surface. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/680/tomatoes_2024_tiller-3207600.jpg Planted the tomatoes and peppers putting some mulch around the plants to keep them out of the dirt as rain was coming. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/680/tomatoes_2024_1-3207598.jpg Added about 2 inches of compost on top the soil. Put a layer of nitrogen fertilizer on top of that, and not pictures is another 2-3 inches of wood chips on top of the compost. The compost was not fully digested. That may be helpful in keeping the grass away or it maybe too harsh and kill of my plants. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/680/tomatoes_2024_2-3207599.jpg If you can install ANY KIND of edges on that plot, even the cheap plastic edging from the big box store, your weeding job will get easier. Edging is 3/4 of weed control. |
|
Get Active or Get Disarmed! That means get involved in helping good candidates in primary and general election. That is in addition to being politically active once they are elected.
|
[#6]
|
|
Get Active or Get Disarmed! That means get involved in helping good candidates in primary and general election. That is in addition to being politically active once they are elected.
|
Born with a low tolerance for bullshit
KY, USA
|
[#7]
Originally Posted By SWIRE: Edging is expensive. I installed a 20 or 25 ft strip on each of the gardens where they narrow and go through the rock structures. I think they were something like $15 each. I would need to spend another $100 in edging but long term it is probably worth it. View Quote That's a lot more expensive than I would have thought. At that price, I would buy 4 X 4s treated and dig them in. That's crazy expensive for plastic junk. |
Nobody ever wakes me at 2 in the morning telling me that my grass is out on the highway.~~Radiopat
Wine is sunlight held together by water~~Galileo Galilei Well-behaved women rarely make history~~Marilyn Monroe |
Born with a low tolerance for bullshit
KY, USA
|
[#8]
Originally Posted By SWIRE: Now that the days are getting longer the foxes come around before it gets dark. A little clip from tonight. Little will not take the hotdog from my hand like her mother did but she will get within 2 feet of me to pick one up. https://www.afterhourtechs.com/misc/fox2.gif View Quote That is so cool. At least you have a bit of Fionna still with you, through her lineage. I'm worried that whatever took her and the others, will be back. |
Nobody ever wakes me at 2 in the morning telling me that my grass is out on the highway.~~Radiopat
Wine is sunlight held together by water~~Galileo Galilei Well-behaved women rarely make history~~Marilyn Monroe |
[#9]
Originally Posted By Kitties-with-Sigs: That is so cool. At least you have a bit of Fionna still with you, through her lineage. I'm worried that whatever took her and the others, will be back. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By Kitties-with-Sigs: Originally Posted By SWIRE: Now that the days are getting longer the foxes come around before it gets dark. A little clip from tonight. Little will not take the hotdog from my hand like her mother did but she will get within 2 feet of me to pick one up. https://www.afterhourtechs.com/misc/fox2.gif That is so cool. At least you have a bit of Fionna still with you, through her lineage. I'm worried that whatever took her and the others, will be back. Yeah, her lineage and trust for me still lives on. The foxes agree with you, they are staying up near the house when I am around and do not like to be in the middle part of the yard where I used to feed them. Also any time there is any noise in the woods they stop and intently focus on it until they know what the threat is. Usually it is a possum that has been coming out. I haven't seen anything on my bridge camera yet but I also don't have the coverage there that I want to. I just had a guy drill post holes so I can put up some 6x6 posts to mount my cameras on. I still need to figure out a power solution for the middle of the yard. Once I get that in place I will be able to see down to and across the bridge. The next part of plan will take awhile as I'm waiting for the ATF to approve something I put into a trust. |
|
Get Active or Get Disarmed! That means get involved in helping good candidates in primary and general election. That is in addition to being politically active once they are elected.
|
[Last Edit: SWIRE]
[#10]
Originally Posted By Kitties-with-Sigs: That's crazy expensive for plastic junk. View Quote That was my thought too. I just checked Lowes, $24 for 40ft so 60 cents a foot. The 3"x4"x8' landscape posts are $5.08 or 63.5 cents per foot. At least those have some significant volume to them. Last week I bumped one of them with my tractor and it snapped. Turns out termites were in it and eating away it after maybe 5 years of being in the ground. The new pressure treated wood is garbage. The 6x6 posts I mentioned are not CCA treated either. I do have Post Saver sleeves for them so hopefully they work. |
|
Get Active or Get Disarmed! That means get involved in helping good candidates in primary and general election. That is in addition to being politically active once they are elected.
|
Born with a low tolerance for bullshit
KY, USA
|
[Last Edit: Kitties-with-Sigs]
[#12]
Originally Posted By SWIRE: Edging is expensive. I installed a 20 or 25 ft strip on each of the gardens where they narrow and go through the rock structures. I think they were something like $15 each. I would need to spend another $100 in edging but long term it is probably worth it. View Quote digging a trench and putting in brick/block/concrete block edging sound just about as cheap. That plastic is stupid expensive for the distance it covers. Edited to add: I forgot I had responded to this, but my brain evidently is consistent in its reaction. Yeah that plastic is just....wrong. |
Nobody ever wakes me at 2 in the morning telling me that my grass is out on the highway.~~Radiopat
Wine is sunlight held together by water~~Galileo Galilei Well-behaved women rarely make history~~Marilyn Monroe |
Born with a low tolerance for bullshit
KY, USA
|
[Last Edit: Kitties-with-Sigs]
[#13]
Originally Posted By SWIRE: Now that the days are getting longer the foxes come around before it gets dark. A little clip from tonight. Little will not take the hotdog from my hand like her mother did but she will get within 2 feet of me to pick one up. https://www.afterhourtechs.com/misc/fox2.gif View Quote Watching this again. God bless her, and may Fiona live on through her. |
Nobody ever wakes me at 2 in the morning telling me that my grass is out on the highway.~~Radiopat
Wine is sunlight held together by water~~Galileo Galilei Well-behaved women rarely make history~~Marilyn Monroe |
Born with a low tolerance for bullshit
KY, USA
|
[Last Edit: Kitties-with-Sigs]
[#14]
Originally Posted By SWIRE: @Kitties-with-Sigs What is your reaction to the idea that volunteer tomatoes could sprout and grow out of the walnut pile soil? This picture is from 10/15/2023 and shows my tomato line in the back, which were planted and growing before I placed the walnuts in front of them. The walnut pile came after they were growing and was 5ft away so I don't think it affected them much. This spring I tilled the walnuts and the area were the tomatoes were. All sorts of volunteer plants came up where the plants were previously which is a little surprising. This biggest surprise came the other week when a volunteer shot up right in the middle of the walnut soil. The large circle is the location of my plant and the small circle is the location of the volunteer. Not only that but the tomato plants I put in flowered and now have tomatoes growing. They are right on track with my main garden. This week will be a good test as it will be sunny, warm, and no rain. From my experience the plants seem to do ok until a dry spell followed by rain. The roots expand and soak up everything they can to get enough water, including the juglone, just so they can survive. Once it rains the plants try to grow again and that is when the juglone toxicity takes them out. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/680/walnut_pile_garden2_2023_10_15_JPG-3237544.jpg https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/680/tomato_in_walnut_JPG-3237528.jpg https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/680/walnut_garden_seedling_volunteers_2024-3237570.jpg View Quote That is surprising. I think you should put a cage around it (like a tomato cage...just something so you have that plant identified and can weed around it if you need to, and so no animal bites it off) and see what happens with it. Your observations about the plants doing okay until it rains again, then they are overcome by juglone... This makes me wonder whether plants give water all along, consistently, would have the same issues. See what I mean about it being too much to unpack, unless it is done as consistent experiments? It's hard to tell what is the determining factor for any effect. People wonder why research is so expensive...this is why. Isolating the questions and answers...that's hard. Edited to add: If you haven't already, I would pull up those walnut seedlings right f***ing now. They add nothing to your experiment and you certainly don't need them. And you already know that once they hit six months, they become MUCH harder to just pull up. |
Nobody ever wakes me at 2 in the morning telling me that my grass is out on the highway.~~Radiopat
Wine is sunlight held together by water~~Galileo Galilei Well-behaved women rarely make history~~Marilyn Monroe |
Born with a low tolerance for bullshit
KY, USA
|
[Last Edit: Kitties-with-Sigs]
[#16]
Originally Posted By SWIRE: There is a lot to unpack; however, running this experiment for years now it has helped me identify patterns and that is all that I need right now. I've tried watering them and eventually the juglone wins anyway. I think what does them in is when they try to grow. Giving them enough water all the time and they will still want to grow. The toxic effects just kick in slower because the roots never tried to grab all the moisture around them. It would be nice if I could do some formal testing. If the plants this year produce any tomatoes of substance then I should have a line ready to do that, especially from the volunteers. I'm almost tempted to transplant some of them to isolate them in order to make sure I keep that specific line from cross pollenating. Technically they are same variety as my line so it shouldn't be an issue. But to have a known feature of "sprouted in walnut soil" is significant compared to "survived being transplanted into walnut soil". I was going to pot some of them and give to a friend for his farm. But you are wrong that they aren't needed for my experiment. Earlier you said I should put some seedings in peat and then grow them in pots under the drip line of a walnut. Or...I could just let a walnut grow up over top of them. It's also claimed the walnut tree roots put out a large amount of juglone, if so then the seedlings are a perfect addition to the experiment. You want any walnut seedlings? I'll give you some of the tomato seedlings that germinated in the walnut soil as well. Speaking of seedlings that germinated in the walnut soil I found a few more seedlings that germinated in the walnut soil. Check this out, when I pulled them to transplant I found that germinated right on top of a walnut. Maybe it germinated above it but the roots grew down and into it vs the plant dying off which is what would be expected. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/680/seedling_walnut-3241709.jpg https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/680/roots_walnut-3241710.jpg View Quote Sorry...this is long. I'm going fast and may not make sense, so if I'm not clear, holler. I have something that may become an important part of this at some point. I think if you could isolate (like build a little perimeter around) a few of the new "germinated in walnuts" seedlings, you could try some soil mitigation. Or you might rather try it another way, like....in pots, and maybe not this year,, BUT..... There is something exciting I have found. You may know about it already, but I didn't. Background: Are you aware that for the past 4-5 years, folks all over the country have been getting bad soil, compost, and mulch, that is destroying their gardens, because that product contains residue from herbicides? It's either plant material that was sprayed with Grazon and then ended up in mulch or compost, or it's MANURE that contains herbicide residue. That stuff is so persistent that it can get absorbed by the pasture grasses, get eaten, pass through the digestive system of ruminants, get pooped out, get COMPOSTED for a year, get bagged or trucked to a garden, get spread, and STILL there is so much residue that it kills whatever is planted in there (broadleaf plants, which are most of what people grow for food crops). I have good friends who lost their business because Western KY University screwed up and dumped grazon trimmings into the public leaf compost program piles. My buddies who had a (mostly) organic produce farm got a big grant and expanded their business with high tunnels, and then LOST THEIR BUSINESS because they used that compost. The cost of tearing out the soil and starting over, on top of the crop sale loss for that season, was too much for them. They had extended themselves with the support of the community, but they couldn't overcome the hit. The university investigated and denied all wrongdoing, of course. Anyway, it's become a bad problem, and most producers know SOMEBODY who has gotten bad soil, mulch, or compost, laced with this herbicide or another within a small group of similar chems. Grazon is the worst because it is so often used on pastures, and composted manure bought in bags or truckloads is a staple for gardeners and producers. Now the new stuff: Just last week I found a video from Roots & Refuge, a channel out of South Carolina, and when she lost most of a high tunnel to herbicide damage (the producer of the bagged compost owned the problem...said it was all over the place and they had obviously gotten a bad bunch of bulk product...) because she has income from the youtube channel, she was able to take a different path. Instead of tearing out the whole tunnel and replacing the soil, she left it in there, and did experiments with mitigation. She used combinations of Vermiculture (worm casting) tea, and some other amendments, in an attempt to heal the soil. She documented this, and it worked!!! (I don't have the precise details, only what she shared on her channel, but She is the first I've seen to successfully mitigate herbicide damaged soil rather than tear it out and replace. SO...I wonder if a similar protocol could mitigate the effect of the juglone in the soil? I started thinking about it when you mentioned the water component...that water flow through the soil had something to do with the uptake of the juglone (or the blocking effect of the juglone, whichever it is.) In ADDITION, I wondered whether some of the humic/fulvic acid compounds I use on lawns and in planters, might also have a positive effect, because the polyelectrolytic nature of those compounds tends to tie up certain things, and make other things available, to positive effect. So...it would be really interesting, since you have these seedlings that show at least SOME resistance, to find out whether mitigation around those seedlings in particular would show a positive effect over time. I can't do it tonight but give me a bit and I'll find the video series for you. |
Nobody ever wakes me at 2 in the morning telling me that my grass is out on the highway.~~Radiopat
Wine is sunlight held together by water~~Galileo Galilei Well-behaved women rarely make history~~Marilyn Monroe |
[#17]
I'm still trying to find something that can be considered completely toxic soil. Right now even the Rutger variety of tomatoes are still holding on. I figure they would have been wilted and dying by now. I don't see how any of the plants are still alive given what we have always been told about walnuts. I've heard even one walnut could be enough to kill off a tomato plant, yet both varieties are growing on top of 100s.
|
|
Get Active or Get Disarmed! That means get involved in helping good candidates in primary and general election. That is in addition to being politically active once they are elected.
|
Born with a low tolerance for bullshit
KY, USA
|
[#19]
Originally Posted By SWIRE: @Kitties-with-Sigs The walnut tomatoes are doing well, both my strain and the Rutgers. The Rutgers is not thriving but not dying either. This is what I would expect the walnut soil to do. These are 2 tomatoes in a different garden that get watered often and no reason to wilt. There could be some walnut or other material in the wood chips I put down that caused this. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/680/dying_tomatoe2_JPG-3261745.jpg https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/680/dying_tomatoe1_JPG-3261744.jpg Instead of that the walnut soil tomatoes are growing like crazy and loaded. There are multiple small walnut trees pictured as well. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/680/living_tomatoe2_JPG-3261746.jpg https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/680/living_tomatoe3_JPG-3261747.jpg I decided to ramp up the expirementation. At the base of every tomato plant I moved the wood chips and put 3 green walnuts next to the roots. In most cases as I was moving the chips I would pull up an old walnut that was in the soil as shown in this picture above the green walnuts. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/680/tomatoe_walnuts1_JPG-3261749.jpg Then to do a worst case scenario I put about a dozen at the base of one. If the walnuts themselves are the problem this will show that. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/680/tomatoe_walnuts2_JPG-3261748.jpg View Quote So these are your "bred for resistance" tomatoes? |
Nobody ever wakes me at 2 in the morning telling me that my grass is out on the highway.~~Radiopat
Wine is sunlight held together by water~~Galileo Galilei Well-behaved women rarely make history~~Marilyn Monroe |
[#20]
Originally Posted By Kitties-with-Sigs: So these are your "bred for resistance" tomatoes? View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By Kitties-with-Sigs: Originally Posted By SWIRE: @Kitties-with-Sigs The walnut tomatoes are doing well, both my strain and the Rutgers. The Rutgers is not thriving but not dying either. This is what I would expect the walnut soil to do. These are 2 tomatoes in a different garden that get watered often and no reason to wilt. There could be some walnut or other material in the wood chips I put down that caused this. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/680/dying_tomatoe2_JPG-3261745.jpg https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/680/dying_tomatoe1_JPG-3261744.jpg Instead of that the walnut soil tomatoes are growing like crazy and loaded. There are multiple small walnut trees pictured as well. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/680/living_tomatoe2_JPG-3261746.jpg https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/680/living_tomatoe3_JPG-3261747.jpg I decided to ramp up the expirementation. At the base of every tomato plant I moved the wood chips and put 3 green walnuts next to the roots. In most cases as I was moving the chips I would pull up an old walnut that was in the soil as shown in this picture above the green walnuts. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/680/tomatoe_walnuts1_JPG-3261749.jpg Then to do a worst case scenario I put about a dozen at the base of one. If the walnuts themselves are the problem this will show that. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/680/tomatoe_walnuts2_JPG-3261748.jpg So these are your "bred for resistance" tomatoes? In theory yes. I've done nothing special to breed them other than expose the line to walnut soil and harvest the best looking tomatoes year after year. A couple years back the line went from a medium size tomato to the grape size tomatoes pictured; however, one of the plants this year is producing medium size tomatoes. Not sure if that is from cross pollination that happened naturally or what. I would assume the heaviest dose of juglone would be in the green skin around the walnut nut. As that decomposes it turns the soil toxic for anything that might compete with the walnut seedling. But maybe that is not the case and the toxicity comes from something else. I'll know in a couple of weeks. Also as the walnuts keep dropping I will keep piling them on top of the tomatoes to see what happens. |
|
Get Active or Get Disarmed! That means get involved in helping good candidates in primary and general election. That is in addition to being politically active once they are elected.
|
[#21]
Swire, don't overwater tomatoes-
Let them go until they wilt on their own. They can be drowned and look like they need more water, but that can be very deceiving. |
|
|
[#22]
Originally Posted By JoseCuervo: Swire, don't overwater tomatoes- Let them go until they wilt on their own. They can be drowned and look like they need more water, but that can be very deceiving. View Quote Yes, they are very touchy. Let them go too long and the tomatoes will crack when they do get water. That was always the biggest problem I had. The 2 hour water mark, of a circular sprinkler, seems to be a good spot so far but I am watching the plants to make sure they don't develop problems too much water. Right now I'm looking at a bumper crop of tomatoes and pepper, which has never happened before. The asparagus is still growing like crazy as well. Right now everything seems very happy. The best part is in one day the solar panels generate enough power to to offset the cost of the well pump running for 20 hours or 10 days. This ground is notorious for getting too dry and then becoming hard as a rock. In the lawn thread Kittie had me to do the poke test with something like a screw driver. In the wet spring the lawn I could easily push it 4" into the ground. Let the sun hit for 3 days and I'm lucky to push it 2" into the ground. Give it a week of no rain and the sun beating down and it turns to concrete. I use plastic electric fence stakes with a metal spike on them around the yard. The last time I tried to set one it went in the ground 2" and then the plastic foot peg snapped right off because the ground was so hard. |
|
Get Active or Get Disarmed! That means get involved in helping good candidates in primary and general election. That is in addition to being politically active once they are elected.
|
[Last Edit: SWIRE]
[#23]
|
|
Get Active or Get Disarmed! That means get involved in helping good candidates in primary and general election. That is in addition to being politically active once they are elected.
|
Born with a low tolerance for bullshit
KY, USA
|
[#24]
Originally Posted By SWIRE: I had a branch from a walnut tree fall and decided to double down on possible toxicity for the tomatoes. Some people say the juglone is in the leaves and others say it is on the bark. So I added more walnuts, leaves, and the sticks from the branch to the tomato beds. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/680/tomatoe_walnuts4_JPG-3263552.jpg https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/680/tomatoe_walnuts3_JPG-3263550.jpg https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/680/tomatoe_walnut5_JPG-3263553.jpg View Quote Technically my understanding is that juglone is in the entire plant, roots to fruits. So I think you are doing right. And you ARE creating a resistant tomato! I started a little garden this year for the first time in a while, and I came across your seeds. It's a little late to try them this season, but next season, I'm going to. I will plant some in my regular garden (raised beds this time) and some in soil that's been rained on by juglone, and some right under the big old walnut. We will see. |
Nobody ever wakes me at 2 in the morning telling me that my grass is out on the highway.~~Radiopat
Wine is sunlight held together by water~~Galileo Galilei Well-behaved women rarely make history~~Marilyn Monroe |
[#25]
I am getting ready to harvest my first round of tomatoes for seeds from the current batch of plants. I can send you new seeds to make sure you get the latest version of the line.
There is still some variation in the plants and size of tomatoes. I have 3 known plants, all very tall and cherry tomato aggressiveness to them. Of those 2 of the 3 plants that produced grape tomatoes and one that produced slightly larger, maybe small plum size tomatoes. Then I have a 4th plant, which should have been from my line but might not be. It is producing some nice medium size tomatoes on a short plant that is not aggressively growing. Then the 2 Rutger plants that I planted are still alive. There are also the volunteer tomato plants that sprouted in the walnut soil. I consider those my best line and will keep them separate. I just need to get them to produce. If you will be near Lexington anytime soon I can dig up one of the volunteer plants and give it to you. They should be able to produce something before the season is over. |
|
Get Active or Get Disarmed! That means get involved in helping good candidates in primary and general election. That is in addition to being politically active once they are elected.
|
Born with a low tolerance for bullshit
KY, USA
|
[#26]
Originally Posted By SWIRE: I am getting ready to harvest my first round of tomatoes for seeds from the current batch of plants. I can send you new seeds to make sure you get the latest version of the line. There is still some variation in the plants and size of tomatoes. I have 3 known plants, all very tall and cherry tomato aggressiveness to them. Of those 2 of the 3 plants that produced grape tomatoes and one that produced slightly larger, maybe small plum size tomatoes. Then I have a 4th plant, which should have been from my line but might not be. It is producing some nice medium size tomatoes on a short plant that is not aggressively growing. Then the 2 Rutger plants that I planted are still alive. There are also the volunteer tomato plants that sprouted in the walnut soil. I consider those my best line and will keep them separate. I just need to get them to produce. If you will be near Lexington anytime soon I can dig up one of the volunteer plants and give it to you. They should be able to produce something before the season is over. View Quote No plan to be up that far, I'm afraid. I have serious doubts that I could get seeds sprouted, grown to transplant size, and up in the garden before frost, but I will absolutely keep them til next year. I COULD try direct-sowing a seed or two, to see what would happen. |
Nobody ever wakes me at 2 in the morning telling me that my grass is out on the highway.~~Radiopat
Wine is sunlight held together by water~~Galileo Galilei Well-behaved women rarely make history~~Marilyn Monroe |
[#28]
|
|
Get Active or Get Disarmed! That means get involved in helping good candidates in primary and general election. That is in addition to being politically active once they are elected.
|
Born with a low tolerance for bullshit
KY, USA
|
[#29]
Originally Posted By SWIRE: My larger tomatoes have finally started getting ripe. Anyone have any idea as to what causes the splits on the top of some of the tomatoes? They get watered every morning and there is a thick layer of mulch so water shortage should not be an issue. That is usually what causes splits, a dry spell followed by rain and tomato swells to quickly for the skin to adjust and it rips/splits. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/680/tomatoes_2024_7_JPG-3280885.jpg Here is more of the crop. The size is hard to gauge from the picture but the tomato is 17 ounces and the peppers are 10.5 ounces. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/680/tomato_pepper_2024_7_JPG-3281599.jpg View Quote Those tomatoes are some of the best looking ones I've seen all year actually. You have less splitting than what I see at the Farmer's market. Inconsistent water is what I was understanding...letting them stay on til it rains. But this year that doesn't seem to be making any difference for experienced growers. Every heirloom tomato I come across has a lot of that. I just processed a big box I bought for $20 from a farmer's market grower--it was his castoffs. I cored and scored the bottoms and put them in the freezer. There was a lot of loss so chickens ate well, but I got five, one-gallon bags full of whole tomatoes and tomato parts. I need to get them processed asap while they lose quality in that freezer. |
Nobody ever wakes me at 2 in the morning telling me that my grass is out on the highway.~~Radiopat
Wine is sunlight held together by water~~Galileo Galilei Well-behaved women rarely make history~~Marilyn Monroe |
Born with a low tolerance for bullshit
KY, USA
|
[#30]
Originally Posted By SWIRE: The tomatoes in walnuts are still doing fine and producing loads of tomatoes. The green walnut nuts and leaves have turned with no effect on the tomato plants. The tomatoes are the size of extra large cherry or grape tomatoes. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/680/tomatoe_walnut_2024_7_29_JPG-3280889.jpg View Quote That's fantastic! You're getting a lot of leaf dieback but I don't see that it's any more than normal for this time of year with high heat. (Not sure if that's normal for tomatoes up where you are). |
Nobody ever wakes me at 2 in the morning telling me that my grass is out on the highway.~~Radiopat
Wine is sunlight held together by water~~Galileo Galilei Well-behaved women rarely make history~~Marilyn Monroe |
[#31]
Originally Posted By Kitties-with-Sigs: That's fantastic! You're getting a lot of leaf dieback but I don't see that it's any more than normal for this time of year with high heat. (Not sure if that's normal for tomatoes up where you are). View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By Kitties-with-Sigs: Originally Posted By SWIRE: The tomatoes in walnuts are still doing fine and producing loads of tomatoes. The green walnut nuts and leaves have turned with no effect on the tomato plants. The tomatoes are the size of extra large cherry or grape tomatoes. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/680/tomatoe_walnut_2024_7_29_JPG-3280889.jpg That's fantastic! You're getting a lot of leaf dieback but I don't see that it's any more than normal for this time of year with high heat. (Not sure if that's normal for tomatoes up where you are). The leaf dieback comes from some type of bacterial leaf spot disease. My line seems very susceptible to it. One plant, which produces a small plum size tomato, is almost dead now and started to wilt. The wilt might be the juglone or it could be the leaf spot or whatever has turned 80% of the leaves on it brown. In my main garden some plants also show the same disease while others seem to be immune to it. From what I read there is nothing to do to treat it; other than rotating crops. |
|
Get Active or Get Disarmed! That means get involved in helping good candidates in primary and general election. That is in addition to being politically active once they are elected.
|
[#32]
Awesome work on those tomatoes!
|
|
Fetchez la vache!
|
Born with a low tolerance for bullshit
KY, USA
|
[#33]
Originally Posted By SWIRE: The leaf dieback comes from some type of bacterial leaf spot disease. My line seems very susceptible to it. One plant, which produces a small plum size tomato, is almost dead now and started to wilt. The wilt might be the juglone or it could be the leaf spot or whatever has turned 80% of the leaves on it brown. In my main garden some plants also show the same disease while others seem to be immune to it. From what I read there is nothing to do to treat it; other than rotating crops. View Quote Right. next project: Select for the juglone-resistant, leaf-spot-resistant, tomato! |
Nobody ever wakes me at 2 in the morning telling me that my grass is out on the highway.~~Radiopat
Wine is sunlight held together by water~~Galileo Galilei Well-behaved women rarely make history~~Marilyn Monroe |
[#35]
Originally Posted By Kitties-with-Sigs: next project: Select for the juglone-resistant, leaf-spot-resistant, tomato! View Quote I need to build a research station. Some place where I can keep all my lines and various samples of juglone and different bad bacteria separate in order to get some conclusive testing in. If I start creating leaf-spot soil I need to make sure that doesn't contaminate anything else or at least more than it already is. |
|
Get Active or Get Disarmed! That means get involved in helping good candidates in primary and general election. That is in addition to being politically active once they are elected.
|
Born with a low tolerance for bullshit
KY, USA
|
[#36]
Originally Posted By SWIRE: I need to build a research station. Some place where I can keep all my lines and various samples of juglone and different bad bacteria separate in order to get some conclusive testing in. If I start creating leaf-spot soil I need to make sure that doesn't contaminate anything else or at least more than it already is. View Quote You won't need to create that soil. It's so damn efficate, you will just need to introduce it. But...so you know...based on your photos I would have called that Tomato blight (fungal). A wet, hot weather spell is great for growing things...including blight. |
Nobody ever wakes me at 2 in the morning telling me that my grass is out on the highway.~~Radiopat
Wine is sunlight held together by water~~Galileo Galilei Well-behaved women rarely make history~~Marilyn Monroe |
[#37]
|
|
Get Active or Get Disarmed! That means get involved in helping good candidates in primary and general election. That is in addition to being politically active once they are elected.
|
[#38]
|
|
Get Active or Get Disarmed! That means get involved in helping good candidates in primary and general election. That is in addition to being politically active once they are elected.
|
Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!
You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.
AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types.
From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm.
Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more.
Copyright © 1996-2024 AR15.COM LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.
AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own.