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Just talked to my brother, who lives on theeast side of the sierras in Nevada. He said they just got 8 inches of wet snow a couple of days ago. I know that traditionally Feb is the snowiest month of the year in that part of Nevada. They have plenty of time to get out of the drought cycle. Not sure if serious. Remember the Miracle March of 1991? With all of February and March to go, it seems the panic is a few weeks early this year. This thread on April 2? Completely different reaction from me then. ETA: The world would be completely different if the Donner party had this years weather. |
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May be a good idea to start a small vegetable garden in the backyard this year if the drought does not end soon. Fruit and Vegetables will be going up in price if the farmers are limited on watering.
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Dumbasses better learn that food comes first. Wonder who will win. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
The drought is highlighting the traditional tensions between groups that claim the state's limited water for their own priorities — farmers, city residents and conservationists. Dumbasses better learn that food comes first. Wonder who will win. Farmers are pretty good at wasting water as well, don't kid yourself. As long as water is artificially cheap, as are the prices California farmers in the Central Valley pay the Feds for their guaranteed water, they have no incentive to conserve it. More water is consumed by farming in California than by "city life". |
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They have all the money in the world to pay for it also....they just have to start drilling (oil). No more water problem. View Quote Oddly enough California is the only big oil state that doesn't tax the oil coming from it. I think having the largest oil company in the country headquartered here means they've bought a whole lot of politicians. |
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There is no water in the Great Lakes.The Great Lakes are empty.
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Desalinated water costs $1,000 or $2,000 an acre foot.
That's too expensive to use for agriculture or lawn watering. |
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Google oil production by state. It's not like California doesn't drill oil here...
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I've never understood why people water their lawns like they do. It's an endless task that accomplishes nothing of value and wastes water. Additionally, all the fertilizer and chemicals pollute our groundwater. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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On a smaller scale, Texas is in store for draconian water restrictions this summer. Last summer was very dry. We have even less water now than a year ago at this time. Most lakes are at less than 50% capacity and some are essentially dry. Unless we get hurricane type rains every other week from now until summer, Texas homeowners are going to watch their yards die. Failure to plan. I've never understood why people water their lawns like they do. It's an endless task that accomplishes nothing of value and wastes water. Additionally, all the fertilizer and chemicals pollute our groundwater. Putting aside for the moment that it looks nice and that's the reason we do a lot of otherwise stupid stuff, a nice lawn helps cool the immediate area. Also, if we don't keep the expansive clay soils somewhat moist, foundations suffer. So some watering is necessary and some is beneficial. Doesn't mean that you have to run the sprinkler system twice a day, but who am I to tell someone how to live. If the person doing it derives pleasure from the result, I don't know how we can call it a "waste". |
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How do you ration water when there isn't enough to go around?
Price is a method. But I doubt most people would want to spend that kind of money for a lawn. |
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and your line of work, Indian rain dance guy? Quite surprised they haven't blamed in on global something. In reality the drought has been here before and pretty severe View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Well it might be good for my job this coming summer. Lack of rain certainly helped last year. and your line of work, Indian rain dance guy? Quite surprised they haven't blamed in on global something. In reality the drought has been here before and pretty severe I work for a company that cleans solar panels. It's exactly exiting as it sounds. |
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There is no water in the Great Lakes.The Great Lakes are empty. View Quote +87 I will have a CLEAR conscious letting all those fuckers who think they could try and get water diverted from here die of thirst. Fuck em, spend your damn money and build a desalinization plant AND the corresponding power plants to survive. Sick of these coastie mother fuckers dictating to the rest of the country. |
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Too early to panic for this year. Too late to plan for it, as well.
Next month could change the entire outlook. If not, too damn late for California (and others) to do much about it. They've had a decade + to consider options and take steps. Most, likely, didn't. |
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When hundreds of thousands were flooded out of their homes in the mid-west remember all the people wishing hate on those Americans ... always so very very funny. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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There is no water in the Great Lakes.The Great Lakes are empty. When hundreds of thousands were flooded out of their homes in the mid-west remember all the people wishing hate on those Americans ... always so very very funny. Yeah because the flood was caused by mismanagement of resources vs population People who stay in California and the like with all the BS that goes with it garner no sympathy from me. Nothing personal Paul, but I dont feel for people complaining about gun laws, lack of water, idiot politicians etc...when they CHOOSE to live their (not to say I have heard you complain really, just sayin). Its the California utopia that the politicians have created....now they need to live with the consequences of mismanagement. |
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Desalinated water costs $1,000 or $2,000 an acre foot. That's too expensive to use for agriculture or lawn watering. View Quote How much did a barrel of oil go for (adjusted for inflation) in 1860? We already know how to desalinate water very efficiently. All it takes is energy and demand. And we already have lots of energy. |
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States that have mass body of water (lakes/oceans) that do not have enough water facilities to provide water is a fail.
Then, they tell the taxpayers to conserve, fines if watering grass. Great job spending tax revenue. |
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How much did a barrel of oil go for (adjusted for inflation) in 1860? We already know how to desalinate water very efficiently. All it takes is energy and demand. And we already have lots of energy. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Desalinated water costs $1,000 or $2,000 an acre foot. That's too expensive to use for agriculture or lawn watering. How much did a barrel of oil go for (adjusted for inflation) in 1860? We already know how to desalinate water very efficiently. All it takes is energy and demand. And we already have lots of energy. I don't think you read much on the subject, do you? We don't have plenty of energy. And what we are getting more of I'd the more expensive sources. At $1,000 and acre foot you can't afford this water. Remember that most water is used for agriculture an the cost is buried in the costs if food. |
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I grew up in N California not far from Lake Orville. Lake Orville is the second biggest reservoir in CA. Been following this story for a few months as I have a few friends in the AG industry (Rice,Almonds,Tomatoes). Here is an excerpt from the local paper last month "Meanwhile, Oroville and Shasta lakes are each 36 percent full, about half of normal for this time of year." http://rebuildca.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/Lake-Oroville-low-level.jpg http://www.palmtalk.org/forum/uploads/post-1270-0-74658700-1390141031.jpg http://media.morristechnology.com/mediafilesvr/upload/manteca_bulletin/article/2014/02/01/1Oroville-drought-LT.jpg View Quote I grew up in the Sacramento area. Folsom Lake also looks like a puddle. |
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I don't think you read much on the subject, do you? We don't have plenty of energy. And what we are getting more of I'd the more expensive sources. At $1,000 and acre foot you can't afford this water. Remember that most water is used for agriculture an the cost is buried in the costs if food. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Desalinated water costs $1,000 or $2,000 an acre foot. That's too expensive to use for agriculture or lawn watering. How much did a barrel of oil go for (adjusted for inflation) in 1860? We already know how to desalinate water very efficiently. All it takes is energy and demand. And we already have lots of energy. I don't think you read much on the subject, do you? We don't have plenty of energy. And what we are getting more of I'd the more expensive sources. At $1,000 and acre foot you can't afford this water. Remember that most water is used for agriculture an the cost is buried in the costs if food. lol, the planet is awash in cheap energy. Solar, nuclear, petroleum, coal, and natural gas. Vast untapped reserves. Our biggest hurdles are political and self-imposed. Not technical. |
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lol, the planet is awash in cheap energy. Solar, nuclear, petroleum, coal, and natural gas. Vast untapped reserves. Our biggest hurdles are political and self-imposed. Not technical. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Desalinated water costs $1,000 or $2,000 an acre foot. That's too expensive to use for agriculture or lawn watering. How much did a barrel of oil go for (adjusted for inflation) in 1860? We already know how to desalinate water very efficiently. All it takes is energy and demand. And we already have lots of energy. I don't think you read much on the subject, do you? We don't have plenty of energy. And what we are getting more of I'd the more expensive sources. At $1,000 and acre foot you can't afford this water. Remember that most water is used for agriculture an the cost is buried in the costs if food. lol, the planet is awash in cheap energy. Solar, nuclear, petroleum, coal, and natural gas. Vast untapped reserves. Our biggest hurdles are political and self-imposed. Not technical. Not too mention California keeps shutting down their power plants. More and more relying on energy to be imported as well....self sustainability is for losers I guess. |
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lol, the planet is awash in cheap energy. Solar, nuclear, petroleum, coal, and natural gas. Vast untapped reserves. Our biggest hurdles are political and self-imposed. Not technical. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Desalinated water costs $1,000 or $2,000 an acre foot. That's too expensive to use for agriculture or lawn watering. How much did a barrel of oil go for (adjusted for inflation) in 1860? We already know how to desalinate water very efficiently. All it takes is energy and demand. And we already have lots of energy. I don't think you read much on the subject, do you? We don't have plenty of energy. And what we are getting more of I'd the more expensive sources. At $1,000 and acre foot you can't afford this water. Remember that most water is used for agriculture an the cost is buried in the costs if food. lol, the planet is awash in cheap energy. Solar, nuclear, petroleum, coal, and natural gas. Vast untapped reserves. Our biggest hurdles are political and self-imposed. Not technical. Go ahead and build a strategy based on that and see what happens. What you want and what you'll get are different things. |
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Go ahead and build a strategy based on that and see what happens. What you want and what you'll get are different things. View Quote A strategy? Why would I even want to build a strategy? The free market handles these things far better than any 5 year plan ever could. When the supply of fresh water is low, the price of farming will increase and the price of food will increase. Which will increase the demand for fresh water and the profitability in producing fresh water. You act as if we're missing some key ingredient for the production of fresh water. We're not. It's just supply and demand. Now, maybe what'll happen first is that it just becomes more practical to farm east of the mississippi than west of it and all the California farmers go out of business... but so what? You don't see many farmers in the Sahara desert, either. You completely missed my point about the price of oil in 1860. But perhaps I should illustrate it better with a question: Why did the US stop using whale oil and instead switch to petroleum-based kerosene? A barrel of crude oil in 1860 was ridiculously expensive. Answer me this: what replacement good do you think we'll use for above ground reservoir water and underground aquifer water when the price of water from those sources reaches a price higher than the one you mentioned for desalinated water? |
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There is no free market in water since no one owns it. View Quote The government owns it (or acts as if it does). And supply and demand operates whether or not you acknowledge that it does. Ain't no such thing as a free lunch. Is government undercharging or overcharging for water? Given the massive shortages, I'd say they're undercharging by a ridiculous factor. |
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The government owns it (or acts as if it does). And supply and demand operates whether or not you acknowledge that it does. Ain't no such thing as a free lunch. Is government undercharging or overcharging for water? Given the massive shortages, I'd say they're undercharging by a ridiculous factor. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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There is no free market in water since no one owns it. The government owns it (or acts as if it does). And supply and demand operates whether or not you acknowledge that it does. Ain't no such thing as a free lunch. Is government undercharging or overcharging for water? Given the massive shortages, I'd say they're undercharging by a ridiculous factor. I agree with this. Unfortunately it's more complicated than this. There is more than one government involved after all. |
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I agree with this. Unfortunately it's more complicated than this. There is more than one government involved after all. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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There is no free market in water since no one owns it. The government owns it (or acts as if it does). And supply and demand operates whether or not you acknowledge that it does. Ain't no such thing as a free lunch. Is government undercharging or overcharging for water? Given the massive shortages, I'd say they're undercharging by a ridiculous factor. I agree with this. Unfortunately it's more complicated than this. There is more than one government involved after all. Well, these things have a way of working themselves out. Malthus will never be right in the long run. Unless the universe dies of extreme entropy, anyways. |
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The Ca legislature is so busy banning guns and making bills for shark fin soup they forgot to work on the infrastructure..
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From a few days ago http://www.chicoer.com/breakingnews/ci_25036879/worst-case-drought-scenario-has-been-declared-state
For the first time in its 54-year history, the State Water Project will provide no water to urban residents or farmers this year because of the severe drought, state officials said Friday. Hardest hit will be the state's huge agriculture industry. "We expect hundreds of thousands of acres of land in the Central Valley to go unplanted," said Paul Wenger, president of the California Farm Bureau Federation. "That will cause severe economic problems in our rural regions — loss of jobs and economic activity, with all the heartache that entails." The State Water Project is a massive system of 21 dams and 701 miles of pipes and canals that moves water from Northern California to the south. In doing so, it provides drinking water for 23 million people from Silicon Valley to the Los Angeles basin and irrigates about 750,000 acres of farmland. The state's decision to turn off its main spigot will be re-evaluated every month and could change if California sees significant rainfall in February, March and April, state water officials said at a Friday morning news conference. Still, the news highlighted how California is in uncharted territory this year. Last year was the driest in the state's recorded history back to 1850. The Sierra Nevada snowpack is at 15 percent of normal, even after a storm this week. And January set more records for lack of rainfall. |
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I grew up in N California not far from Lake Orville. Lake Orville is the second biggest reservoir in CA. Been following this story for a few months as I have a few friends in the AG industry (Rice,Almonds,Tomatoes). Here is an excerpt from the local paper last month "Meanwhile, Oroville and Shasta lakes are each 36 percent full, about half of normal for this time of year." http://rebuildca.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/Lake-Oroville-low-level.jpg http://www.palmtalk.org/forum/uploads/post-1270-0-74658700-1390141031.jpg http://media.morristechnology.com/mediafilesvr/upload/manteca_bulletin/article/2014/02/01/1Oroville-drought-LT.jpg View Quote So is the fishing any good? |
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Quoted: From a few days ago http://www.chicoer.com/breakingnews/ci_25036879/worst-case-drought-scenario-has-been-declared-state For the first time in its 54-year history, the State Water Project will provide no water to urban residents or farmers this year because of the severe drought, state officials said Friday. Hardest hit will be the state's huge agriculture industry. "We expect hundreds of thousands of acres of land in the Central Valley to go unplanted," said Paul Wenger, president of the California Farm Bureau Federation. "That will cause severe economic problems in our rural regions — loss of jobs and economic activity, with all the heartache that entails." The State Water Project is a massive system of 21 dams and 701 miles of pipes and canals that moves water from Northern California to the south. In doing so, it provides drinking water for 23 million people from Silicon Valley to the Los Angeles basin and irrigates about 750,000 acres of farmland. The state's decision to turn off its main spigot will be re-evaluated every month and could change if California sees significant rainfall in February, March and April, state water officials said at a Friday morning news conference. Still, the news highlighted how California is in uncharted territory this year. Last year was the driest in the state's recorded history back to 1850. The Sierra Nevada snowpack is at 15 percent of normal, even after a storm this week. And January set more records for lack of rainfall. View Quote AZ, NV, and Oregon needs to start building a huge ass wall, like now. |
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Good news everyone!
It rained today! If you read this in the voice of Professor Farnsworth, congratulations. |
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No problem. Finish shutting down Kalifornia agriculture. Use surplus irrigation water to flush all the new toilets of 100s of new IAs entering the state daily. Call up the Kenyan and have him send more freshly printed US$ to cover the costs, including covering the additional 99 wks of unemployment benefits of laid-off ag. workers. I love to see a new good plan take shape.
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Districts in this county have been groundwater banking like crazy for 30 years. They have surplus they're offering at $600/af to those that didn't plan ahead sand rely on the State Water Project. Sucks to be them. No shortage here. View Quote Helluva a bargain, that is less than 1 cent per gallon. 43560 ft^3/af (12^3 in^3/ft^3)(1 US gallon/231 in^3) = 325851.4286 gal/af => $0.0018/gal |
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Fucking Sacramento. They shove a high speed rail project down our throats that no one wants except the Brown appointees who will get rich on a taxpayer paid boondoggle. The fucking thing will NEVER get built not even the utterly useless first section between Madeira and Bakersfield. It will never pass the EIR. So why not build a desalinization plant instead of useless train projects? Why not fix the drought bullshit forever? This state reeks of corruption and cheats. To say our ruling elite political class are swine is to insult pigs. This used to be a great place to live. View Quote Because, desalinization would be an industry, an CA is anti industry |
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It would be cheaper to build the infrastructure to transport fresh water from further sources than build, maintain, and operate desalination plants. Those things aint cheap. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Fucking Sacramento. They shove a high speed rail project down our throats that no one wants except the Brown appointees who will get rich on a taxpayer paid boondoggle. The fucking thing will NEVER get built not even the utterly useless first section between Madeira and Bakersfield. It will never pass the EIR. So why not build a desalinization plant instead of useless train projects? Why not fix the drought bullshit forever? This state reeks of corruption and cheats. To say our ruling elite political class are swine is to insult pigs. This used to be a great place to live. They don't want to to build the required power plants for that to work. Typical liberal idiot situation. It would be cheaper to build the infrastructure to transport fresh water from further sources than build, maintain, and operate desalination plants. Those things aint cheap. Water from where? The entire western U.S. is in a drought and has been for a few years now. They are all having water issues. The Colorado River is low and California is on the end of the line. |
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Quoted: Water from where? The entire western U.S. is in a drought and has been for a few years now. They are all having water issues. The Colorado River is low and California is on the end of the line. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Fucking Sacramento. They shove a high speed rail project down our throats that no one wants except the Brown appointees who will get rich on a taxpayer paid boondoggle. The fucking thing will NEVER get built not even the utterly useless first section between Madeira and Bakersfield. It will never pass the EIR. So why not build a desalinization plant instead of useless train projects? Why not fix the drought bullshit forever? This state reeks of corruption and cheats. To say our ruling elite political class are swine is to insult pigs. This used to be a great place to live. They don't want to to build the required power plants for that to work. Typical liberal idiot situation. It would be cheaper to build the infrastructure to transport fresh water from further sources than build, maintain, and operate desalination plants. Those things aint cheap. Water from where? The entire western U.S. is in a drought and has been for a few years now. They are all having water issues. The Colorado River is low and California is on the end of the line. California owns all the water. Duh! |
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My prediction:
We can call it "California Department of Water Regulation" CDWR for short. Complete with armed JBT'S and more taxation for funding to enforce more draconian regulations and laws complete with a dial 1-800 Y.O.U S.N.I.T.C.H Hotline for offenders and labeling of all plumbing fixtures that state that the device conforms. You Californians better stock up on your pre ban water faucets toilets and sprinklers while you can. And you thought the 1.6 Gallon flush toilets sucked! Soon they'll add fixture replacement regulations and specifications for remodeling in the California building codes and mandatory sustainable Best Management practices for a room addition adding even more bureaucracy to an already bloated State Government. |
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Desalination is also terrible for the environment depending on what you do with the salt. You can't put it back in the ocean or you get brine water and sealife suffers... put it in the desert and you have to pay to move it... nothing really is a great answer.
But hey global warming / climate change is all bs so it will all balance out next year and we have nothing to worry about. |
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Quoted: Desalination is also terrible for the environment depending on what you do with the salt. You can't put it back in the ocean or you get brine water and sealife suffers... put it in the desert and you have to pay to move it... nothing really is a great answer. But hey global warming / climate change is all bs so it will all balance out next year and we have nothing to worry about. View Quote Send that salt to the South east to melt snow. |
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I've never understood why people water their lawns like they do. It's an endless task that accomplishes nothing of value and wastes water. Additionally, all the fertilizer and chemicals pollute our groundwater. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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On a smaller scale, Texas is in store for draconian water restrictions this summer. Last summer was very dry. We have even less water now than a year ago at this time. Most lakes are at less than 50% capacity and some are essentially dry. Unless we get hurricane type rains every other week from now until summer, Texas homeowners are going to watch their yards die. Failure to plan. I've never understood why people water their lawns like they do. It's an endless task that accomplishes nothing of value and wastes water. Additionally, all the fertilizer and chemicals pollute our groundwater. Helps the foundation..... |
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