Joel Osteen and John Hagee....... phonies?

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Joel Osteen and John Hagee....... phonies? (Page 1 of 2)

Posted: 2/27/2011 12:39:42 PM EDT

I have been told by a few people, and read about how several televangelists are phonies and don't preach the truth. As in they leave out certain parts of the bible, yet from what I have seen, it looks like what they say is true, unless I'm missing something.

A quick google search says pretty much every televangelist is the devil though, and there's usually some really weird links to their pages or its a bunch of non Christians opinions.

What are the arrfcoms Christians opinions on these guys?

Posted: 2/27/2011 12:40:40 PM EDT

[#1]

Osteen maybe...........I dont think Hagee is a fake

Posted: 2/27/2011 12:42:16 PM EDT

[#2]

Osteen is nothing more than a motivational speaker, and his only motivation and religion is the almighty $$$$$$$$$$$$$...

Posted: 2/27/2011 12:43:58 PM EDT

[#3]

Quoted:

Osteen is nothing more than a motivational speaker, and his only motivation and religion is the almighty $$$$$$$$$$$$$...

This,

And I am going to go ahead and throw in Rick Warren as a socialist turd as well.

Posted: 2/27/2011 12:44:42 PM EDT

[#4]

Quoted:
Osteen is nothing more than a motivational speaker, and his only motivation and religion is the almighty $$$$$$$$$$$$$...

So other than motivating people to send him money, do you think he brings people to christ?

Posted: 2/27/2011 12:45:21 PM EDT

[#5]

Not a Christian any longer, and I have no opinion on John Hagee. But I can say with a great deal of certainty that Joel Osteen's "prosperity gospel" (as it has come to be known) has no basis in scripture, supposing that he reads the same Bible that every other Christian does.

It does have a nice ring to it though, which I suppose is at least partly responsible for his popularity. Still, even with his popularity, it's fair to say that he's not in line with mainstream Christian thought. Take it for what it's worth...

If I may make it personal for a moment, I think he's a conscious charlatan and a fraud. He doesn't believe a word of what he's saying. That's just one man's personal opinion, though.

Posted: 2/27/2011 12:47:16 PM EDT

[#6]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Osteen is nothing more than a motivational speaker, and his only motivation and religion is the almighty $$$$$$$$$$$$$...

So other than motivating people to send him money, do you think he brings people to christ?

dunno but a few of our outspoken fundies seem to like him

he gives me the uber clean Stewart Smally like creepy christian shyster vibe myself

Posted: 2/27/2011 12:47:36 PM EDT

[#7]

Quoted:
Osteen is nothing more than a motivational speaker

"Christianity Lite" I call it.

John Hagee reminds me of one of the guys running around with a "THE WORLD ENDS TOMORROW" sign.

They're two of the least-offensive televangelists to me, but I'm not a fan of either.

Posted: 2/27/2011 12:47:57 PM EDT

[#8]

Quoted:
Osteen is nothing more than a motivational speaker, and his only motivation and religion is the almighty $$$$$$$$$$$$$...

I concur.

Posted: 2/27/2011 12:48:18 PM EDT

[#9]

Quoted:
Osteen is nothing more than a motivational speaker, and his only motivation and religion is the almighty $$$$$$$$$$$$$...

This x10. He looks like a used car salesman....not to offend used car salesmen.

Posted: 2/27/2011 12:49:05 PM EDT

[#10]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Osteen is nothing more than a motivational speaker, and his only motivation and religion is the almighty $$$$$$$$$$$$$...

So other than motivating people to send him money, do you think he brings people to christ?

I think you can find better messages in your local churches instead of the old Houston Rockets stadium. I watched one of his sermons(Osteen's) at a church retreat and wasn't impressed.

Posted: 2/27/2011 12:50:02 PM EDT

[#11]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Osteen is nothing more than a motivational speaker, and his only motivation and religion is the almighty $$$$$$$$$$$$$...

So other than motivating people to send him money, do you think he brings people to christ?

dunno but a few of our outspoken fundies seem to like him

he gives me the uber clean Stewart Smally like creepy christian shyster vibe myself

I think Hagee is quite legit and I think because of his knowledge on biblical prophecy he talks about it, feels it, etc a lot more than other people.

Posted: 2/27/2011 12:50:17 PM EDT

[#12]

Quoted:

Not a Christian any longer, and I have no opinion on John Hagee. But I can say with a great deal of certainty that Joel Osteen's "prosperity gospel" (as it has come to be known) has no basis in scripture, supposing that he reads the same Bible that every other Christian does.

It does have a nice ring to it though, which I suppose is at least partly responsible for his popularity. Still, even with his popularity, it's fair to say that he's not in line with mainstream Christian thought. Take it for what it's worth...

If I may make it personal for a moment, I think he's a conscious charlatan and a fraud. He doesn't believe a word of what he's saying. That's just one man's personal opinion, though.

+1

I always like your insight into these matters.

Posted: 2/27/2011 12:51:37 PM EDT

[#13]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Osteen is nothing more than a motivational speaker, and his only motivation and religion is the almighty $$$$$$$$$$$$$...

I concur.

same

Posted: 2/27/2011 12:55:50 PM EDT

[#14]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Osteen is nothing more than a motivational speaker, and his only motivation and religion is the almighty $$$$$$$$$$$$$...

This,

And I am going to go ahead and throw in Rick Warren as a socialist turd as well.

I'm not very familiar with him, I just looked him up on wiki and he looks pretty conservative to me, aside from the global warming thing.

Posted: 2/27/2011 12:56:40 PM EDT

[#15]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Osteen is nothing more than a motivational speaker, and his only motivation and religion is the almighty $$$$$$$$$$$$$...

So other than motivating people to send him money, do you think he brings people to christ?

I think you can find better messages in your local churches instead of the old Houston Rockets stadium. I watched one of his sermons(Osteen's) at a church retreat and wasn't impressed.

I agree with Deej86 on this, will add I do believe Hagee would preach whether or not he was getting paid, don't have the same feeling about Osteen.

Posted: 2/27/2011 12:58:13 PM EDT

[#16]

If Hagee was not a pastor, most of you guys would vote for him.
JH does not put up with any crap. I would vote for him...

Posted: 2/27/2011 1:00:43 PM EDT

[#17]

I like Joel. His message is positive and his audience seems to be composed of good people.

Posted: 2/27/2011 1:01:33 PM EDT

[#18]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PTc_FoELt8s

Posted: 2/27/2011 1:02:46 PM EDT

[#19]

Quoted:
"prosperity gospel"

Almost sounds contradictory.

Posted: 2/27/2011 1:03:17 PM EDT

[#20]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Osteen is nothing more than a motivational speaker, and his only motivation and religion is the almighty $$$$$$$$$$$$$...

This,

And I am going to go ahead and throw in Rick Warren as a socialist turd as well.

I'm not very familiar with him, I just looked him up on wiki and he looks pretty conservative to me, aside from the global warming thing.

I don't know of anything fundamentally wrong with Warren, either. I think he should have declined the invitation to Obama's inauguration, though.

Posted: 2/27/2011 1:09:40 PM EDT

[#21]

Quoted:

I like Joel. His message is positive and his audience seems to be composed of good people.

So is the message of Hedonism, but it's not really the criterion I'd use for what constitutes a valid philosophy.

For my point of view, I don't really see that the guy does any appreciable harm. If I were a Christian, I'd be a lot more upset with him, because he undermines mainstream Christian thought. I'd consider it harmful to my faith, and any believers who were led astray by it.

Otherwise, he's a guy on TV that lives on donations fueled by false promises. Meh. Free country, and all that. People have forked over money for worse (like the Sham Wow).

Posted: 2/27/2011 1:13:51 PM EDT

[#22]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I like Joel. His message is positive and his audience seems to be composed of good people.

So is the message of Hedonism, but it's not really the criterion I'd use for what constitutes a valid philosophy.

For my point of view, I don't really see that the guy does any appreciable harm. If I were a Christian, I'd be a lot more upset with him, because he undermines mainstream Christian thought. I'd consider it harmful to my faith, and any believers who were led astray by it.

Otherwise, he's a guy on TV that lives on donations fueled by false promises. Meh. Free country, and all that. People have forked over money for worse (like the Sham Wow).

Uh - ok. I stand by my simple statement. YMMV

Posted: 2/27/2011 1:14:33 PM EDT

[#23]

I knew the Hagee family personally for a long time, although I've been out of their social circle for years now.

I've always had a high opinion of them... They're intelligent and understand leadership. And they know how to properly manage social interaction. Sadly rare traits these days.

As for their faith... I could care less. If they are genuine or true to their sacred texts is for their flock and god to decide.

Now, as for Joel Osteen... I haven't such high regard for him. But I shall refrain from the name-calling he deserves.

TR85.

Posted: 2/27/2011 1:14:35 PM EDT

[#24]

Hagee, I know nothing about. Osteen seems...slimy to me.

Posted: 2/27/2011 1:16:00 PM EDT

[#25]

Quoted:
Not a Christian any longer, and I have no opinion on John Hagee. But I can say with a great deal of certainty that Joel Osteen's "prosperity gospel" (as it has come to be known) has no basis in scripture, supposing that he reads the same Bible that every other Christian does.

It does have a nice ring to it though, which I suppose is at least partly responsible for his popularity. Still, even with his popularity, it's fair to say that he's not in line with mainstream Christian thought. Take it for what it's worth...

If I may make it personal for a moment, I think he's a conscious charlatan and a fraud. He doesn't believe a word of what he's saying. That's just one man's personal opinion, though.

I agree completely.

My wife and I attended a local church a few times and it turns out the preacher is BFF with Joel Osteen. He was always dropping his name, flashing Joel's pic on one of the many big screens. The whole affair was highly produced, from the flashy displays to the stage full of American Idol rejects. I felt it was nothing more than a very clever way to separate the attendees from their hard-earned cash.

Posted: 2/27/2011 1:16:01 PM EDT

[#26]

Quoted:
Not a Christian any longer, and I have no opinion on John Hagee. But I can say with a great deal of certainty that Joel Osteen's "prosperity gospel" (as it has come to be known) has no basis in scripture, supposing that he reads the same Bible that every other Christian does.

It does have a nice ring to it though, which I suppose is at least partly responsible for his popularity. Still, even with his popularity, it's fair to say that he's not in line with mainstream Christian thought. Take it for what it's worth...

If I may make it personal for a moment, I think he's a conscious charlatan and a fraud. He doesn't believe a word of what he's saying. That's just one man's personal opinion, though.

this.

"beware of false prophets"

Posted: 2/27/2011 1:16:48 PM EDT

[#27]

Quoted:

Quoted:
"prosperity gospel"

Almost sounds contradictory.

it is.

Posted: 2/27/2011 1:18:26 PM EDT

[#28]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Osteen is nothing more than a motivational speaker, and his only motivation and religion is the almighty $$$$$$$$$$$$$...

This,

And I am going to go ahead and throw in Rick Warren as a socialist turd as well.

I'm not very familiar with him, I just looked him up on wiki and he looks pretty conservative to me, aside from the global warming thing.

I don't know of anything fundamentally wrong with Warren, either. I think he should have declined the invitation to Obama's inauguration, though.

Keep digging.

Posted: 2/27/2011 1:19:14 PM EDT

[#29]

Osteen is a complete fraud. Hagee is the real deal.

Posted: 2/27/2011 1:19:47 PM EDT

[#30]

Osteen is Tony Robbins with a side order of Jesus IMO.

Posted: 2/27/2011 1:23:54 PM EDT

[#31]

Hagee=Real

Olsteen=Fake Pussy

Posted: 2/27/2011 1:24:53 PM EDT

[#32]

Quoted:

Quoted:

"prosperity gospel"

Almost sounds contradictory.

It is, but you won't notice it as much, if he's been your primary source of scriptural knowledge - perhaps as a new believer, or someone who only had a cursory interest in it, prior to listening to him.

If you've been steeped in Christian theology for a few years (like the millions of believers who have enthusiastically studied Christianity for years), you'll see him on TV and go "Hey! Wait a tick..."

Posted: 2/27/2011 1:25:38 PM EDT

[#33]

All preachers, politicians and motivational speakers look like charlatans to me. TV preachers are the worst. What was the only thing that got Jesus mad? Something along the lines of "you've turned my father's house into a den of thieves...."?

Posted: 2/27/2011 1:47:29 PM EDT

[#34]

Hagee I dont think so, the other one..............

Posted: 2/27/2011 1:59:41 PM EDT

[#35]

Many are phonies and con jobs and some have been even kicked out of their denominations for their antics. John Hagee is the real deal even if I don't agree with him on some things but I would not call him a phony for it. He is also the typical Southern preacher in style. Joel Osteen I wouldn't put in the same category. His close association with the Word of Faith cult and prosperity preaching are enough for me to tune in elsewhere. I'll just stay away and let God take care of it.

Posted: 2/27/2011 2:02:14 PM EDT

[#36]

Praise the Lord and PASS THE LOOT!! say amen

Amen

Posted: 2/27/2011 2:03:56 PM EDT

[#37]

Hagee always seemed to be on the right track to me. Osteen I don't know because he always seemed to milky to me.............

Posted: 2/27/2011 2:04:30 PM EDT

[#38]

Osteen is the Tony Robbins of the TV Evagelists

Hagee is very much into eschatology

Posted: 2/27/2011 2:05:23 PM EDT

[#39]

which one of the local 87 gospel channels is he on ?

seriously

gospel and Spanish channels make up 80 percent of the free over the air channels..

Posted: 2/27/2011 2:06:51 PM EDT

[#40]

No Idea, im Catholic

Posted: 2/27/2011 2:19:19 PM EDT

[#41]

Quoted:

Quoted:
"prosperity gospel"

Almost sounds contradictory.

As it should. Physical wealth and prosperity are basically irrelevant to the message of Christ, and anyone who thinks that Christ's goal was to see to it that people became materially prosperous in this world has been mislead.

Posted: 2/27/2011 2:20:12 PM EDT

[#42]

Joel Osteen seems to me to preach you'll get rich if you believe in the Good Lord.
I don't know anywhere in the Bible that says He will make you rich if you believe in Him.
The rewards of accepting the Savior and doing as the Good Lord wants you to do is in the next life, not this one.

Posted: 2/27/2011 2:22:55 PM EDT

[#43]

Osteen's preaching seems to be aimed at making people feel comfortable with the way they are living their lives.

I'm no expert, but the impression that I've always gotten is that the Gospel was supposed to make the average person feel uncomfortable with they way they live.

I've only read a bit about John Hagee so I will refrain from saying anything.

Posted: 2/27/2011 2:28:19 PM EDT

[#44]

I have Dish Network. There about a dozen "church" type channels. Sometimes while flipping, I stop and watch. (For a few minutes anyway.)

Just about all of them ask for money sooner or later. They all seem to be selling one thing or another.

The 700 Club is on at least 4 different channels every weekday morning.

Posted: 2/27/2011 2:35:26 PM EDT

[#45]

Quoted:
Not a Christian any longer, and I have no opinion on John Hagee. But I can say with a great deal of certainty that Joel Osteen's "prosperity gospel" (as it has come to be known) has no basis in scripture, supposing that he reads the same Bible that every other Christian does.

It does have a nice ring to it though, which I suppose is at least partly responsible for his popularity. Still, even with his popularity, it's fair to say that he's not in line with mainstream Christian thought. Take it for what it's worth...

If I may make it personal for a moment, I think he's a conscious charlatan and a fraud. He doesn't believe a word of what he's saying. That's just one man's personal opinion, though.

You have more discernment than a lot of 'Christians'. I agree with everything you said about Joel.

Hagee is very popular amongst political conservatives. However, yes, Hagee does have a measure of 'prosperity gospel' in what he teaches. Further, he holds some weird form of theology that says ethnic jews can be saved apart from Christ (he'll claim that, then deny it later, using nuanced terminology). Finally (disclaimer: I reject all unique tenets of dispensationalism, so I'm biased here) he holds a 'hyper' form of dispensationalism that is simply heretical, but very profitable for him......he can preach the need to align with Israel (the place in the middle east) based on a very OT understanding of who Israel is and then sell a ton of Shofar horns and other 'Jesus Junk' for a nice profit. He also sells lots of videos and tapes on his hyper-dispensational eschatology...again, selling people a sensationalistic view that nobody held until recently, at a tidy profit.

Finally, He dumped his first wife.

In short, he's a charlatan - but unlike Osteen, I have to actually explain that, not just assert the obvious.

Posted: 2/27/2011 2:38:17 PM EDT

[#46]

Quoted:
I like Joel. His message is positive and his audience seems to be composed of good people.

I think the question is whether he is a real Christian. Which, really isn't anyone's business but his. That said I think Olsteen is a fraud, his eyes are too squinty

Posted: 2/27/2011 2:39:42 PM EDT

[#47]

I'm suspicious of any preacher who has his face on the front cover of so many books that I can recognize him right away. Joel Osteen, T.D. Jakes, Joyce Meyer, et al.

Posted: 2/27/2011 2:40:15 PM EDT

[#48]

Quoted:
All preachers, politicians and motivational speakers look like charlatans to me. TV preachers are the worst. What was the only thing that got Jesus mad? Something along the lines of "you've turned my father's house into a den of thieves...."?

Preachers I've seen on TV with a national audience that are NOT charlatans:

-R.C. Sproul
-Charles Stanley
-John Piper
-Mark Kielar (who absolutely has the best Christian TV series ever on TV, www.crosstv.com
-Older (20+ years old or more) Billy Graham crusades
-David Jeremiah

I'm sure there are more. I don't agree with all of these guys on every issue, but they have integrity and are solid on the basics.

Posted: 2/27/2011 2:43:06 PM EDT

[#49]

They are both heretics. Benny Hinn and many others too.

Posted: 2/27/2011 2:52:53 PM EDT

[#50]

I think Hagee at least isn't (wasn't?) a nut case.

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Joel Osteen and John Hagee....... phonies? (Page 1 of 2)

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