OSHA -- Fines 110K and Citation for gun Range

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Posted: 6/23/2012 9:51:09 AM EDT

The Article
http://www.volokh.com/2012/06/23/osha-targets-shooting-range/

The federal Occupational Safety and Health Administration has issued a citation, along with a proposed fine of $111,000 fine (OSHA press release here), against Illinois Gun Works–a gun store and gunsmith business which has a shooting range and teaches safety classes.

Many of alleged OSHA violations at the safety training range involved noise exposure for the instructors. Among OSHA’s suggestions were to eliminate training in “larger caliber” handguns such as “9 mm Luger and/or .45 Colt” and substitute “handguns of smaller caliber,” such as .22LR. And “Prohibition of any shotguns and/or rifles firing in the firing range."

“A gun range instructor conducting shooter instruction was observed reaching down on the range floor to collect a loaded handgun cartridge. The employee was not wearing any hand protection such as gloves. The gun range floor was contaminated with lead. The gun had misfired and it required manual cycling of the barrel slide to remove the defective round which then fell on the gun range floor.”

And the press release
http://www.osha.gov/pls/oshaweb/owadisp.show_document?p_table=NEWS_RELEASES&p_id=22524

Large caliber handguns? Gloves?

You can't make this up...
Or are these really regs for Illinois?

Edit: Link to the citation
http://www.osha.gov/ooc/citations/IllinoisGunWorksLtd_110282_0608_12.pdf

Posted: 6/23/2012 9:52:56 AM EDT

[#1]

Posted: 6/23/2012 9:52:58 AM EDT

[#2]

If I was going to test a bunch of bullshit out, Illinois is one of the states I would select for said testing...

Posted: 6/23/2012 9:53:00 AM EDT

[#3]

Quoted:
The Article
http://www.volokh.com/2012/06/23/osha-targets-shooting-range/

The federal Occupational Safety and Health Administration has issued a citation, along with a proposed fine of $111,000 fine (OSHA press release here), against Illinois Gun Works–a gun store and gunsmith business which has a shooting range and teaches safety classes.

Many of alleged OSHA violations at the safety training range involved noise exposure for the instructors. Among OSHA’s suggestions were to eliminate training in “larger caliber” handguns such as “9 mm Luger and/or .45 Colt” and substitute “handguns of smaller caliber,” such as .22LR. And “Prohibition of any shotguns and/or rifles firing in the firing range."

“A gun range instructor conducting shooter instruction was observed reaching down on the range floor to collect a loaded handgun cartridge. The employee was not wearing any hand protection such as gloves. The gun range floor was contaminated with lead. The gun had misfired and it required manual cycling of the barrel slide to remove the defective round which then fell on the gun range floor.”

And the press release
http://www.osha.gov/pls/oshaweb/owadisp.show_document?p_table=NEWS_RELEASES&p_id=22524

Large caliber handguns? Gloves?

You can't make this up...
Or are these really regs for Illinois?

If it's OSHA it's federal. Coming soon to a range near you.

Posted: 6/23/2012 9:53:07 AM EDT

[#4]

I am so glad the Federal Govt is here to protect us.

Posted: 6/23/2012 9:53:32 AM EDT

[#5]

Wow.

Who'd they piss off?

Posted: 6/23/2012 9:56:31 AM EDT

[#6]

Quoted:

Large caliber handguns? Gloves?

You can't make this up...
Or are these really regs for Illinois?

Not that I'm aware of..

Posted: 6/23/2012 9:57:17 AM EDT

[#7]

I've heard about those floors contaminated with lead. If you step on it, your future children will have three eyes and no forehead.

Posted: 6/23/2012 9:58:13 AM EDT

[#8]

Quoted:
Wow.

Who'd they piss off?

It's Illinois. They couldn't ban guns completely so they're looking for other means to ban the 2A

Posted: 6/23/2012 9:59:01 AM EDT

[#9]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Wow.

Who'd they piss off?

It's Illinois. They couldn't ban guns completely so they're looking for other means to ban the 2A

Well, it's actually Fedgov, although since Jan. 2009 it's virtually Illinois.

Posted: 6/23/2012 9:59:39 AM EDT

[#10]

The article is a little hazy on what all the violations were but if the range had Hoppes for personnel to use than they are required to have a MSDS sticker/label on it with the data sheet. As for suggestions they will make a million of them and if you were to follow even a portion of them you will price yourself out of business. Their suggestions you should note and file it away under "shit I don't fucking care about but have to remember for the next visit." But violations are violations. Many are technical but on a firing range how much do you want to risk?

Edit: After reading the actual citation that range has some serious controls they need to implace before going back on line. The biggest problem that I have seen is the lead contamination issue. Additionally, the hours of noise exposure were due to a federal allottment for time being exposed to gunfire. What they were trying to say is that the instructors needed better hearing protection to bring the total amount of noise exposure down. Their suggestions such as reducing the calibur size was strictly for the range instruction portion not for the whole range.

There were four or five citations alone that dealt with masks. That is a pain in the ass to begin with, but if they accepted that one of their controls for lead reduction of the use of personal masks and they didn't impliment it then they fucked themselves.

Posted: 6/23/2012 10:00:48 AM EDT

[#11]

Lol my initial thought was..OSHA does have some useful purposes...as soon as I read the article well..I had to check to see if it was April.

Posted: 6/23/2012 10:02:46 AM EDT

[#12]

The most common reason for an OSHA visit, other than an injury is a disgruntled former employee.

Posted: 6/23/2012 10:04:46 AM EDT

[#13]

Our government is famous for tactics like this. Can't pin anything else on someone get them for tax evasion. It's the same people who want to ban you guns, they just found a new way to attack us. On the other hand it could be a way for gun owners to call for legalizing suppressors, use their rules against them.

Posted: 6/23/2012 10:07:00 AM EDT

[#14]

Quoted:
I've heard about those floors contaminated with lead. If you step on it, your future children will have three eyes and no forehead.

That's what the government said about LSD back in the 70s. "Just one hit can damage your chromosomes and cause you to have three headed babies."

There should be a lot of three headed people running around these days.

Posted: 6/23/2012 10:09:45 AM EDT

[#15]

Quoted:
The most common reason for an OSHA visit, other than an injury is a disgruntled former employee.

Yeah...my first question is why OSHA is visiting a range unless someone there complained.

These are common conditions at every indoor range I've been to.

<––ETA: and to clarify my position, I'm in no way in favor of fining the range.

Posted: 6/23/2012 10:10:09 AM EDT

[#16]

osha hit a few ranges in the chicago burbs. while i admit illinois is a shit state... don't think this kinda crap can't or won't happen in your state.

all in the name of making money and paying the bills.

Posted: 6/23/2012 10:16:23 AM EDT

[#17]

Quoted:
The article is a little hazy on what all the violations were but if the range had Hoppes for personnel to use than they are required to have a MSDS sticker/label on it with the data sheet. As for suggestions they will make a million of them and if you were to follow even a portion of them you will price yourself out of business. Their suggestions you should note and file it away under "shit I don't fucking care about but have to remember for the next visit." But violations are violations. Many are technical but on a firing range how much do you want to risk?

Shit like this is what kills entrepreneurship and keeps people on unemployment and welfare instead of starting a business.

Posted: 6/23/2012 10:18:47 AM EDT

[#18]

"... a lack of policy regarding how employees may touch the floor."

Posted: 6/23/2012 10:20:07 AM EDT

[#19]

I hate Illinois Nazis.

Posted: 6/23/2012 10:29:39 AM EDT

[#20]

Quoted:
I hate Illinois Nazis.

Couldn't have said it better!

Hessian-1

Posted: 6/23/2012 10:30:38 AM EDT

[#21]

Quoted:

osha hit a few ranges in the chicago burbs. while i admit illinois is a shit state... don't think this kinda crap can't or won't happen in your state.

all in the name of justifying their existence, making money and paying the bills.

FIFY

Posted: 6/23/2012 10:31:42 AM EDT

[#22]

Quoted:
I hate Illinois Nazis.

Damnit

beat me to it LOL!

Posted: 6/23/2012 10:39:42 AM EDT

[#23]

Under the radar. Expect more EPA invovlement as well.

Posted: 6/23/2012 10:43:12 AM EDT

[#24]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I hate Illinois Nazis.

Couldn't have said it better!

Hessian-1

But OSHA is federal...

Posted: 6/23/2012 10:48:30 AM EDT

[#25]

Noise exposure? Wouldn't a pair of electronic muffs take care if that-or am I missing something?

Recently I spent a day shooting an 8mm Maxim belt fed machinegun, and my Sordins kept my ears perfectly protected.

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile

Posted: 6/23/2012 10:49:20 AM EDT

[#26]

Quoted:

Quoted:
The article is a little hazy on what all the violations were but if the range had Hoppes for personnel to use than they are required to have a MSDS sticker/label on it with the data sheet. As for suggestions they will make a million of them and if you were to follow even a portion of them you will price yourself out of business. Their suggestions you should note and file it away under "shit I don't fucking care about but have to remember for the next visit." But violations are violations. Many are technical but on a firing range how much do you want to risk?

Shit like this is what kills entrepreneurship and keeps people on unemployment and welfare instead of starting a business.

And it is also how people end up with lead contamination. The citation was very specific that it is not the instructor retrieving the round off of the ground but it is the fact that they did so without gloves with a copious amount of lead dust on the floor. The business did not have the controls in place to lower or mitigate lead contamination. This is their fuck up not the .gov.

The citation went on to talk about the hearing protection too. Simple fix is buy better ear muffs or hire more range masters.

Posted: 6/23/2012 10:50:31 AM EDT

[#27]

Quoted:

Posted: 6/23/2012 10:52:02 AM EDT

[#28]

Quoted:

Quoted:
osha hit a few ranges in the chicago burbs. while i admit illinois is a shit state... don't think this kinda crap can't or won't happen in your state.

all in the name of justifying their existence, making money and paying the bills.

FIFY

thank you sir!

coming soon to a gun range near you!

Posted: 6/23/2012 10:54:08 AM EDT

[#29]

At first I laughed thinking this was an Onion article. Then I got the carebear stare when I realized it wasn't.

Posted: 6/23/2012 10:59:04 AM EDT

[#30]

Quoted:
The Article
http://www.volokh.com/2012/06/23/osha-targets-shooting-range/

The federal Occupational Safety and Health Administration has issued a citation, along with a proposed fine of $111,000 fine (OSHA press release here), against Illinois Gun Works–a gun store and gunsmith business which has a shooting range and teaches safety classes.

Many of alleged OSHA violations at the safety training range involved noise exposure for the instructors. Among OSHA’s suggestions were to eliminate training in “larger caliber” handguns such as “9 mm Luger and/or .45 Colt” and substitute “handguns of smaller caliber,” such as .22LR. And “Prohibition of any shotguns and/or rifles firing in the firing range."

“A gun range instructor conducting shooter instruction was observed reaching down on the range floor to collect a loaded handgun cartridge. The employee was not wearing any hand protection such as gloves. The gun range floor was contaminated with lead. The gun had misfired and it required manual cycling of the barrel slide to remove the defective round which then fell on the gun range floor.”

And the press release
http://www.osha.gov/pls/oshaweb/owadisp.show_document?p_table=NEWS_RELEASES&p_id=22524

Large caliber handguns? Gloves?

You can't make this up...
Or are these really regs for Illinois?

Edit: Link to the citation
http://www.osha.gov/ooc/citations/IllinoisGunWorksLtd_110282_0608_12.pdf

.
Fuck you. We are not the UK, so take your UK Health and Safety nanny shit elsewhere.

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile

Posted: 6/23/2012 11:01:40 AM EDT

[#31]

Quoted:

Quoted:
The article is a little hazy on what all the violations were but if the range had Hoppes for personnel to use than they are required to have a MSDS sticker/label on it with the data sheet. As for suggestions they will make a million of them and if you were to follow even a portion of them you will price yourself out of business. Their suggestions you should note and file it away under "shit I don't fucking care about but have to remember for the next visit." But violations are violations. Many are technical but on a firing range how much do you want to risk?

Shit like this is what kills entrepreneurship and keeps people on unemployment and welfare instead of starting a business.

No shit. In ten years osha safety books for construction have gotten so big, no way anyone could not be violating SOMETHING. Fines anyone?

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile

Posted: 6/23/2012 11:09:33 AM EDT

[#32]

Quoted:

Quoted:
The article is a little hazy on what all the violations were but if the range had Hoppes for personnel to use than they are required to have a MSDS sticker/label on it with the data sheet. As for suggestions they will make a million of them and if you were to follow even a portion of them you will price yourself out of business. Their suggestions you should note and file it away under "shit I don't fucking care about but have to remember for the next visit." But violations are violations. Many are technical but on a firing range how much do you want to risk?

Shit like this is what kills entrepreneurship and keeps people on unemployment and welfare instead of starting a business.

And it is also how people end up with lead contamination. The citation was very specific that it is not the instructor retrieving the round off of the ground but it is the fact that they did so without gloves with a copious amount of lead dust on the floor. The business did not have the controls in place to lower or mitigate lead contamination. This is their fuck up not the .gov.

The citation went on to talk about the hearing protection too. Simple fix is buy better ear muffs or hire more range masters.

Don't bring your goddamn logic in here, it's ripping huge chunks off his baseless ideology!

Posted: 6/23/2012 11:11:54 AM EDT

[#33]

Can't pass gun control laws, will use executive fiat to make it so you can't shoot at all. Aren't all these agencies great.

Posted: 6/23/2012 11:16:27 AM EDT

[#34]

Quoted:

Quoted:
The article is a little hazy on what all the violations were but if the range had Hoppes for personnel to use than they are required to have a MSDS sticker/label on it with the data sheet. As for suggestions they will make a million of them and if you were to follow even a portion of them you will price yourself out of business. Their suggestions you should note and file it away under "shit I don't fucking care about but have to remember for the next visit." But violations are violations. Many are technical but on a firing range how much do you want to risk?

Shit like this is what kills entrepreneurship and keeps people on unemployment and welfare instead of starting a business.

And it is also how people end up with lead contamination. The citation was very specific that it is not the instructor retrieving the round off of the ground but it is the fact that they did so without gloves with a copious amount of lead dust on the floor. The business did not have the controls in place to lower or mitigate lead contamination. This is their fuck up not the .gov.

The citation went on to talk about the hearing protection too. Simple fix is buy better ear muffs or hire more range masters.

Its bullshit. Inorganic lead compounds, like what comes from lead bullets is minimally absorbed.

Posted: 6/23/2012 11:19:00 AM EDT

[#35]

Quoted:
The article is a little hazy on what all the violations were but if the range had Hoppes for personnel to use than they are required to have a MSDS sticker/label on it with the data sheet. As for suggestions they will make a million of them and if you were to follow even a portion of them you will price yourself out of business. Their suggestions you should note and file it away under "shit I don't fucking care about but have to remember for the next visit." But violations are violations. Many are technical but on a firing range how much do you want to risk?

Edit: After reading the actual citation that range has some serious controls they need to implace before going back on line. The biggest problem that I have seen is the lead contamination issue. Additionally, the hours of noise exposure were due to a federal allottment for time being exposed to gunfire. What they were trying to say is that the instructors needed better hearing protection to bring the total amount of noise exposure down. Their suggestions such as reducing the calibur size was strictly for the range instruction portion not for the whole range.

There were four or five citations alone that dealt with masks. That is a pain in the ass to begin with, but if they accepted that one of their controls for lead reduction of the use of personal masks and they didn't impliment it then they fucked themselves.

Does that federal time allotment apply to combat?

Posted: 6/23/2012 11:27:13 AM EDT

[#36]

Quoted:
Under the radar. Expect more EPA invovlement as well.

Around congress. Elections have consequences. FBHO and the demorat party.

Posted: 6/23/2012 11:28:18 AM EDT

[#37]

Quoted:

Quoted:

The article is a little hazy on what all the violations were but if the range had Hoppes for personnel to use than they are required to have a MSDS sticker/label on it with the data sheet. As for suggestions they will make a million of them and if you were to follow even a portion of them you will price yourself out of business. Their suggestions you should note and file it away under "shit I don't fucking care about but have to remember for the next visit." But violations are violations. Many are technical but on a firing range how much do you want to risk?

Shit like this is what kills entrepreneurship and keeps people on unemployment and welfare instead of starting a business.

And it is also how people end up with lead contamination. The citation was very specific that it is not the instructor retrieving the round off of the ground but it is the fact that they did so without gloves with a copious amount of lead dust on the floor. The business did not have the controls in place to lower or mitigate lead contamination. This is their fuck up not the .gov.

The citation went on to talk about the hearing protection too. Simple fix is buy better ear muffs or hire more range masters.

Its bullshit. Inorganic lead compounds, like what comes from lead bullets is minimally absorbed.

People have been bathed in the plumbophobia for years now, mostly through the EPA and OSHA to where they think touching lead will cause lead poisoning.

The only hazard lead from a firing range poses is BREATHING.

Posted: 6/23/2012 11:28:34 AM EDT

[#38]

Quoted:

Quoted:
The article is a little hazy on what all the violations were but if the range had Hoppes for personnel to use than they are required to have a MSDS sticker/label on it with the data sheet. As for suggestions they will make a million of them and if you were to follow even a portion of them you will price yourself out of business. Their suggestions you should note and file it away under "shit I don't fucking care about but have to remember for the next visit." But violations are violations. Many are technical but on a firing range how much do you want to risk?

Edit: After reading the actual citation that range has some serious controls they need to implace before going back on line. The biggest problem that I have seen is the lead contamination issue. Additionally, the hours of noise exposure were due to a federal allottment for time being exposed to gunfire. What they were trying to say is that the instructors needed better hearing protection to bring the total amount of noise exposure down. Their suggestions such as reducing the calibur size was strictly for the range instruction portion not for the whole range.

There were four or five citations alone that dealt with masks. That is a pain in the ass to begin with, but if they accepted that one of their controls for lead reduction of the use of personal masks and they didn't impliment it then they fucked themselves.

Does that federal time allotment apply to combat?

From the Citation

A gun range instructor conducting shooter instruction classes was exposed to continuous noise levels at 382.9% of the allowable 8hour time-weighted average (TWA) permissible exposure level (PEL) of 90dB-A. The equivalent dB-A level of 382.9% for 479 minutes is approximately 99.7 dBA. Zero exposure was assumed for the un-sampled period of time of 1 minute. the period of of 479 minutes was selected to represent the worst continuous 8-hour work period.

So they extrapolated the time of ONE MINUTE across 8 hours...

Posted: 6/23/2012 11:30:17 AM EDT

[#39]

correct me if i am wrong, but I thought OSHA regs didn't apply to businesses with less than 20 employees. Learned that at my OSHA 10 hour training

Posted: 6/23/2012 11:30:19 AM EDT

[#40]

Quoted:

Quoted:
The article is a little hazy on what all the violations were but if the range had Hoppes for personnel to use than they are required to have a MSDS sticker/label on it with the data sheet. As for suggestions they will make a million of them and if you were to follow even a portion of them you will price yourself out of business. Their suggestions you should note and file it away under "shit I don't fucking care about but have to remember for the next visit." But violations are violations. Many are technical but on a firing range how much do you want to risk?

Shit like this is what kills entrepreneurship and keeps people on unemployment and welfare instead of starting a business.

And it is also how people end up with lead contamination. The citation was very specific that it is not the instructor retrieving the round off of the ground but it is the fact that they did so without gloves with a copious amount of lead dust on the floor. The business did not have the controls in place to lower or mitigate lead contamination. This is their fuck up not the .gov.

The citation went on to talk about the hearing protection too. Simple fix is buy better ear muffs or hire more range masters.

Posted: 6/23/2012 11:36:08 AM EDT

[#41]

Quoted:

Quoted:
The article is a little hazy on what all the violations were but if the range had Hoppes for personnel to use than they are required to have a MSDS sticker/label on it with the data sheet. As for suggestions they will make a million of them and if you were to follow even a portion of them you will price yourself out of business. Their suggestions you should note and file it away under "shit I don't fucking care about but have to remember for the next visit." But violations are violations. Many are technical but on a firing range how much do you want to risk?

Shit like this is what kills entrepreneurship and keeps people on unemployment and welfare instead of starting a business.

And it is also how people end up with lead contamination. The citation was very specific that it is not the instructor retrieving the round off of the ground but it is the fact that they did so without gloves with a copious amount of lead dust on the floor. The business did not have the controls in place to lower or mitigate lead contamination. This is their fuck up not the .gov.

The citation went on to talk about the hearing protection too. Simple fix is buy better ear muffs or hire more range masters.

Red Foreman has something to say to you.

Posted: 6/23/2012 11:38:41 AM EDT

[#42]

Here's more info in the IL HTF. I've never shot at this place myself, but it sounds like the owner basically got down on his knees and begged for the citation.

Posted: 6/23/2012 11:45:03 AM EDT

[#43]

I don't know about the ranges you guys go to but the range I go to sweeps up brass every night. I would assume that they don't dumb the powder residue back on the floor. Have any of you ever seen a a layer of powder on the floor? I have not.

Posted: 6/23/2012 11:48:36 AM EDT

[#44]

I would counter with the law saying that they are not legally aloud to put sound containment safety devices on the firearms and that if the laws were different then the safety of the instructors would not have been infringed.

Posted: 6/23/2012 11:48:42 AM EDT

[#45]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I've heard about those floors contaminated with lead. If you step on it, your future children will have three eyes and no forehead.

That's what the government said about LSD back in the 70s. "Just one hit can damage your chromosomes and cause you to have three headed babies."

There should be a lot of three headed people running around these days.

Posted: 6/23/2012 11:49:38 AM EDT

[#46]

FWIW IL adopts OSHA standards by reference approximately a year or so after they go into effect on thd Federal level. The enforcing agency is typically the Il Dept. of Labor.

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Posted: 6/23/2012 11:51:23 AM EDT

[#47]

Quoted:

Quoted:
The article is a little hazy on what all the violations were but if the range had Hoppes for personnel to use than they are required to have a MSDS sticker/label on it with the data sheet. As for suggestions they will make a million of them and if you were to follow even a portion of them you will price yourself out of business. Their suggestions you should note and file it away under "shit I don't fucking care about but have to remember for the next visit." But violations are violations. Many are technical but on a firing range how much do you want to risk?

Shit like this is what kills entrepreneurship and keeps people on unemployment and welfare instead of starting a business.

And it is also how people end up with lead contamination. The citation was very specific that it is not the instructor retrieving the round off of the ground but it is the fact that they did so without gloves with a copious amount of lead dust on the floor. The business did not have the controls in place to lower or mitigate lead contamination. This is their fuck up not the .gov.

The citation went on to talk about the hearing protection too. Simple fix is buy better ear muffs or hire more range masters.

There was a rather large Semi-Private LE agency that spent millions of dollars to construct a state of the art indoor training center and range, they failed to put in enough ventilation and filters, and were closed down by OSHA and EPA in less than a year.

Posted: 6/23/2012 12:05:49 PM EDT

[#48]

It may have already been said, but if OSHA is so concerned with noise pollution, perhaps they should help reduce the cost and red tape involved to obtain a suppressor for said firearms. Given Illinois won't allow suppressors...perhaps OSHA should help IL citizens to obtain that option.