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Posted: 6/22/2019 10:10:16 PM EDT
The good idea fairy has been working overtime as of late.
 Failed To Load Title  Failed To Load Title It is about time that Army leadership has started taking a serious look at mobile self propelled artillery systems for equipping the lighter Stryker and Infantry Brigade Combat Teams. I suppose the near peer threats out there today has served as motivation. Towed systems might work against the Vietcong, the Taliban or ISIS. But against Russia or China, you need something that has the ability to quickly shoot and scoot. I just can't believe we weren't using truck mounted howitzer systems 30 or 40 years ago. Better late than never I guess. Now if we can get them to motorize the rest of the light infantry formations with JLTVs, HMMWVs and FMTVs (or some combination of the three), maybe we can finally be able to adequately move and maneuver all of our medium and light infantry in a responsive manner. |
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Posted: 6/22/2019 10:12:32 PM EDT
[#1]
French CAESARs in Iraq
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Posted: 6/22/2019 10:33:59 PM EDT
[#2]
Well, there was this
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Posted: 6/22/2019 10:39:03 PM EDT
[#3]
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Posted: 6/22/2019 10:39:08 PM EDT
[#4]
With the advances in field artillery, they really should dust off Atomic Annie and see how far they can make that bitch fly today.
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Posted: 6/22/2019 10:39:10 PM EDT
[#5]
I heard the army was recently looking at 16" naval guns for some reason.
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Posted: 6/22/2019 11:11:37 PM EDT
[#6]
Trucks must stay on roads. IED's are placed along roads. Tracks can go where there are no roads. Light tracks can cross bridges and are usually amphibious.
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Posted: 6/23/2019 12:49:16 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Trucks must stay on roads. IED's are placed along roads. Tracks can go where there are no roads. Light tracks can cross bridges and are usually amphibious.  Attached FileM2A1 105mm on a half track, T19 Howitzer Motor Carriage. |
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Posted: 6/23/2019 12:58:37 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryA lot more people can be trained to drive a truck vs a tank with a big gun...
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Posted: 6/23/2019 1:21:00 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
A lot more people can be trained to drive a truck vs a tank with a big gun... |
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Posted: 6/23/2019 3:30:25 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I heard the army was recently looking at 16" naval guns for some reason. Not exactly "light", but I'm ok with that. |
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Posted: 6/23/2019 3:43:48 AM EDT
[#11]
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Posted: 6/23/2019 3:50:46 AM EDT
[#12]
Outstanding!
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Posted: 6/23/2019 4:34:00 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Trucks must stay on roads. IED's are placed along roads. Tracks can go where there are no roads. Light tracks can cross bridges and are usually amphibious. |
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Posted: 6/23/2019 4:46:55 AM EDT
[#14]
They’re for shooting at the beautiful people on Madison Avenue
Also suburbanites with back-yard chickens |
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Posted: 6/23/2019 10:16:54 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Tracks have significantly more maintenance and fuel requirements. Logistics matters. Shit be big and heavy. |
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Posted: 6/23/2019 10:20:18 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I heard the army was recently looking at 16" naval guns for some reason. |
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Posted: 6/23/2019 10:22:17 AM EDT
[#17]
IEDs would not be a particularly large concern in a near peer fight against an enemy that has a fuck-ton of tubes. Speed and mobility would be a much larger matter.
Even still,as I showed French wheeled artillery has been used quite well in Iraq,Syria and Africa. It’s hardly as if an M109 or Panzerhaubitze is immune to a buried pile of 122mm shells. |
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Posted: 6/23/2019 10:23:07 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Out of curiosity, what makes a tank way more difficult to drive. Granted there will be handling differences and the greater ability to seriously fuck up equiptment and infrastucture w/ the tank. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
A lot more people can be trained to drive a truck vs a tank with a big gun... Think about people who can’t back up or reverse a trailer. The common denominator normally is they don’t understand where their wheels are, or what they need the vehicle to do. Anyone who has a decent amount of time on a zero turn mower has a huge leg up. |
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Posted: 6/23/2019 10:23:59 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
IEDs would not be a particularly large concern in a near peer fight against an enemy that has a fuck-ton of tubes. Speed and mobility would be a much larger matter. Even still,as I showed French wheeled artillery has been used quite well in Iraq,Syria and Africa. It’s hardly as if an M109 or Panzerhaubitze is immune to a buried pile of 122mm shells. |
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Posted: 6/23/2019 10:37:08 AM EDT
[#20]
We had mobile mortar platforms where a Polaris Razor had a 120mm mortar in the back, they were pretty mobile
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Posted: 6/23/2019 10:42:39 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
We had mobile mortar platforms where a Polaris Razor had a 120mm mortar in the back, they were pretty mobile 
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Posted: 6/23/2019 10:47:42 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I hope the EDF will just have piles of IEDs with "Free Lunch" written on them in Russian. But would they notice? |
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Posted: 6/23/2019 10:48:46 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The concept of what is going on when you input controls. Think about people who can’t back up or reverse a trailer. The common denominator normally is they don’t understand where their wheels are, or what they need the vehicle to do. Anyone who has a decent amount of time on a zero turn mower has a huge leg up. |
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Posted: 6/23/2019 10:51:33 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The concept of what is going on when you input controls. Think about people who can’t back up or reverse a trailer. The common denominator normally is they don’t understand where their wheels are, or what they need the vehicle to do. Anyone who has a decent amount of time on a zero turn mower has a huge leg up. Ha ha, I was one of the few LT's back then that learned to drive most of the vehicles we had. 113's, Hemmits, and 5 tons. I drove the 5 ton pretty regularly. |
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Posted: 6/23/2019 10:54:23 AM EDT
[#25]
Quoted:
The good idea fairy has been working overtime as of late.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E-2oI3XsJrQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JwXwwdBogBo
It is about time that Army leadership has started taking a serious look at mobile self propelled artillery systems for equipping the lighter Stryker and Infantry Brigade Combat Teams. I suppose the near peer threats out there today has served as motivation. Towed systems might work against the Vietcong, the Taliban or ISIS. But against Russia or China, you need something that has the ability to quickly shoot and scoot. I just can't believe we weren't using truck mounted howitzer systems 30 or 40 years ago. Better late than never I guess. Now if we can get them to motorize the rest of the light infantry formations with JLTVs, HMMWVs and FMTVs (or some combination of the three), maybe we can finally be able to adequately move and maneuver all of our medium and light infantry in a responsive manner. |
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Posted: 6/23/2019 10:56:09 AM EDT
[#26]
Never been done before.
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Posted: 6/23/2019 10:58:58 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Good point about the zero turn mower. Years ago, my E4 gave me lessons on our M113 and I used to operate it here and there in the field. We realized that since he was the only guy in our group that knew how to drive the track, that we would have a bad day if things got hot and he was wounded. It took me a bit, but I got it soon enough. Our's had stick controls, and it was tough driving only looking through the ports. Ha ha, I was one of the few LT's back then that learned to drive most of the vehicles we had. 113's, Hemmits, and 5 tons. I drove the 5 ton pretty regularly. I loved driving the Abrams. LOVED it. The 577 was a loud, rattly ass piece of shit, but the stick controls were pretty easy to figure out. |
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Posted: 6/23/2019 11:00:19 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Track maintenace sucks for the guys who have to do it. Shit be big and heavy. |
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Posted: 6/23/2019 11:05:22 AM EDT
[#29]
Driving tracks isnt that hard. I was just a dumbass 17 year old 13B when I learned. But as stated, maintenance is a bitch. Breaking track sucks. And M109's only have half the track as a tank so I feel sorry for M1 guys.
M109's are made of metal but they dont have shit for armor. We would have been swiss cheese in combat and IED's would have been very effective. If I remember correctly, the turret "armor" was just half inch thick plate. M109's aren't super maneuverable and I wouldn't try to climb mountains in one. Ft Carson had some trails that would make you pucker. I'd love to play with the wheeled guns in the OP and give them a go. |
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Posted: 6/23/2019 11:06:29 AM EDT
[#30]
Whatever gun bunnies, just put the rounds where I tell you.
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Posted: 6/23/2019 11:07:05 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Trucks must stay on roads. IED's are placed along roads. Tracks can go where there are no roads. Light tracks can cross bridges and are usually amphibious. |
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Posted: 6/23/2019 11:30:36 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
A lot more people can be trained to drive a truck vs a tank with a big gun... ETA: You do not know what the urge to kill is, until you parallel park a tank on a rail car. Then have the load meister run out with his (loading gauge) stick and say: "NO! NO! NO! Zat is no good! Move your Panzer 22 zentimeters zo the links!!! |
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Posted: 6/23/2019 11:45:42 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Tracks have significantly more maintenance and fuel requirements. Logistics matters. |
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Posted: 6/23/2019 11:49:40 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryMarine M777A2 towed batteries can routinely conduct hip shoots faster than the Paladin.
Towed guns have a lot of benefits. Like lighter weight, lower maintenance, ability to use the truck for other than towing the gun... |
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Posted: 6/23/2019 11:51:44 AM EDT
[#35]
That Hawkeye is awesome.
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Posted: 6/23/2019 12:01:13 PM EDT
[#36]
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Posted: 6/23/2019 12:03:49 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
A lot more people can be trained to drive a truck vs a tank with a big gun... Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Posted: 6/23/2019 12:05:03 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Marine M777A2 towed batteries can routinely conduct hip shoots faster than the Paladin. |
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Posted: 6/23/2019 12:05:59 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Out of curiosity, what makes a tank way more difficult to drive. Granted there will be handling differences and the greater ability to seriously fuck up equiptment and infrastucture w/ the tank. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
A lot more people can be trained to drive a truck vs a tank with a big gun... |
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Posted: 6/23/2019 12:06:46 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
you're gonna have to explain this one to me. An M777A2 being towed down the road can pull over, emplace, and get rounds downrange --and on target-- faster than an M109A6 Paladin? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Marine M777A2 towed batteries can routinely conduct hip shoots faster than the Paladin. One is much more reliant on computers and GPS than the other. If you have a competent crew and FDC(not even amazing, just up to standard) you can be faster than a Paladin with a 777. Doing everything manually sucks- but it has its place. |
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Posted: 6/23/2019 12:07:19 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Tracks have significantly more maintenance and fuel requirements. Logistics matters. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Trucks must stay on roads. IED's are placed along roads. Tracks can go where there are no roads. Light tracks can cross bridges and are usually amphibious. |
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Posted: 6/23/2019 12:09:07 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Spoken like a guy that's never had to keep a 5-ton running. Logistics are not the problem. Staying alive is the problem. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Trucks must stay on roads. IED's are placed along roads. Tracks can go where there are no roads. Light tracks can cross bridges and are usually amphibious. |
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Posted: 6/23/2019 12:10:06 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: you're gonna have to explain this one to me. An M777A2 being towed down the road can pull over, emplace, and get rounds downrange --and on target-- faster than an M109A6 Paladin? |
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Posted: 6/23/2019 12:12:13 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Thats hard to believe. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: you're gonna have to explain this one to me. An M777A2 being towed down the road can pull over, emplace, and get rounds downrange --and on target-- faster than an M109A6 Paladin? |
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Posted: 6/23/2019 12:14:19 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yes. Absolutely. One is much more reliant on computers and GPS than the other. If you have a competent crew and FDC(not even amazing, just up to standard) you can be faster than a Paladin with a 777. Doing everything manually sucks- but it has its place. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Marine M777A2 towed batteries can routinely conduct hip shoots faster than the Paladin. One is much more reliant on computers and GPS than the other. If you have a competent crew and FDC(not even amazing, just up to standard) you can be faster than a Paladin with a 777. Doing everything manually sucks- but it has its place. But I'm not talking just about computing the firing solution, I'm also talking about laying and safe-ing the battery. Are you talking about a one-gun situation, or an entire battery? ETA: I'm not doubting it can be done, but those cannon crewmembers gotta be moving FAST
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Posted: 6/23/2019 12:15:37 PM EDT
[#46]
Whats the plan for the Brutus when its below freezing and the deck is iced over? I like the thing but it looks like it would suck ass to service when frozen.
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Posted: 6/23/2019 12:18:48 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Former FA officer before I went JAG. I know how quickly a good FDC can compute a firing solution, and I was trained on manual gunnery; it's shocking to me how accurate manual gunnery can be compared to the old BCS and BUCS. But I'm not talking just about computing the firing solution, I'm also talking about laying and safe-ing the battery. Are you talking about a one-gun situation, or an entire battery? ETA: I'm not doubting it can be done, but those cannon crewmembers gotta be moving FAST Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Marine M777A2 towed batteries can routinely conduct hip shoots faster than the Paladin. One is much more reliant on computers and GPS than the other. If you have a competent crew and FDC(not even amazing, just up to standard) you can be faster than a Paladin with a 777. Doing everything manually sucks- but it has its place. But I'm not talking just about computing the firing solution, I'm also talking about laying and safe-ing the battery. Are you talking about a one-gun situation, or an entire battery? ETA: I'm not doubting it can be done, but those cannon crewmembers gotta be moving FAST 
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Posted: 6/23/2019 12:22:56 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I've only seen it tested with 2 gun sections. But judging by the times I've had Paladins tell me they can't shoot at all because their computers are down leads me to think... Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Marine M777A2 towed batteries can routinely conduct hip shoots faster than the Paladin. One is much more reliant on computers and GPS than the other. If you have a competent crew and FDC(not even amazing, just up to standard) you can be faster than a Paladin with a 777. Doing everything manually sucks- but it has its place. But I'm not talking just about computing the firing solution, I'm also talking about laying and safe-ing the battery. Are you talking about a one-gun situation, or an entire battery? ETA: I'm not doubting it can be done, but those cannon crewmembers gotta be moving FAST  c'mon man, taking operational readiness into account is cheating!
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Posted: 6/23/2019 12:26:50 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
c'mon man, taking operational readiness into account is cheating!Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Marine M777A2 towed batteries can routinely conduct hip shoots faster than the Paladin. One is much more reliant on computers and GPS than the other. If you have a competent crew and FDC(not even amazing, just up to standard) you can be faster than a Paladin with a 777. Doing everything manually sucks- but it has its place. But I'm not talking just about computing the firing solution, I'm also talking about laying and safe-ing the battery. Are you talking about a one-gun situation, or an entire battery? ETA: I'm not doubting it can be done, but those cannon crewmembers gotta be moving FAST c'mon man, taking operational readiness into account is cheating!
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Posted: 6/23/2019 12:29:08 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
With the advances in field artillery, they really should dust off Atomic Annie and see how far they can make that bitch fly today. |
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