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Posted: 10/15/2022 1:21:47 AM EDT
[#1]
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Posted: 10/15/2022 1:21:53 AM EDT
[#2]
They seem to be priced the same when I buy.
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Posted: 10/15/2022 1:22:17 AM EDT
[#3]
Not for me because I can't shoot it at most of the ranges around me.
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Posted: 10/15/2022 1:24:25 AM EDT
[#4]
I try not to buy ammo online mostly to support local businesses. Here in town it’s up to a .05 a round difference. The range here doesn’t care because it my property haha
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Posted: 10/15/2022 1:27:15 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I try not to buy ammo online mostly to support local businesses. The price difference between online and local is huge. I want downward price pressure, not supporting local Fudd mark up. |
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Posted: 10/15/2022 1:29:16 AM EDT
[#6]
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Posted: 10/15/2022 1:30:47 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryOh hell, I’m guessing this is something I shouldn’t have asked? Too controversial? |
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Posted: 10/15/2022 1:32:02 AM EDT
[#8]
This is America. Get both
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Posted: 10/15/2022 1:34:18 AM EDT
[#9]
Quoted: Is the green tip worth the extra cost? I’ve never gotten gray accuracy out of any that I’ve shot and I’ve read that it shortens barrel life by quite a bit. Shortens barrel life? How exactly does that work? |
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Posted: 10/15/2022 1:36:54 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Oh hell, I'm guessing this is something I shouldn't have asked? Too controversial? No, not really. It has just come up a lot over the years (or at least it used to). 'Round here, I'd say most folks seem to prefer 55 grain when buying cheap & stacking deep, but that's a lot harder to do these days. I only buy 55 grain, mainly because my main AR is a retro build with a 1/12 barrel. |
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Posted: 10/15/2022 1:38:04 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Shortens barrel life? How exactly does that work? If I remember right it requires a higher pressure to keep the Velocity where it should be and something about the steel penetrator causing Concentricity issues that can’t be squished out because the steel doesn’t deform like lead. No idea if that’s right I’m not a physicist or anyone smart really hell I could be remembering it wrong too |
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Posted: 10/15/2022 1:40:34 AM EDT
[#12]
I buy 55 in bulk due to having several rifles in 1/12, and the green tip would tear up my steel targets too much.
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Posted: 10/15/2022 1:41:45 AM EDT
[#13]
May depend on brand but I get much better accuracy with Winchester M193 than Winchester M855 from a Noveske 16”
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Posted: 10/15/2022 1:43:12 AM EDT
[#14]
Hornady Tap or Gold dots ftw.
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Posted: 10/15/2022 1:43:42 AM EDT
[#15]
55
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Posted: 10/15/2022 1:43:52 AM EDT
[#16]
Deleted due to lack of sarcasm emoji
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Posted: 10/15/2022 1:45:02 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If I remember right it requires a higher pressure to keep the Velocity where it should be and something about the steel penetrator causing Concentricity issues that can’t be squished out because the steel doesn’t deform like lead. No idea if that’s right I’m not a physicist or anyone smart really hell I could be remembering it wrong too Pressure for M855 is in the same range as M193, and it's like 4.8gr (?) penetrator that should never come in contact with the barrel. M855A1 is harder on barrels and higher pressure, as well as having a more robust penetrator; but is not green-tip. Other than shooting at someone with polyethylene plates or punching steel helmets at 550m, I'm not sure what it does better than M193. |
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Posted: 10/15/2022 1:47:05 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Pressure for M855 is in the same range as M193, and it's like 4.8gr (?) penetrator that should never come in contact with the barrel. M855A1 is harder on barrels and higher pressure, as well as having a more robust penetrator; but is not green-tip. Other than shooting at someone with polyethylene plates or punching steel helmets at 550m, I'm not sure what it does better than M193. Maybe it was the A1 I was thinking of I’m sorry for the confusion. |
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Posted: 10/15/2022 1:48:35 AM EDT
[#19]
Green tip is pointless IMO It has shitty pen, mediocre accuracy and bad terminal effects.
With 55 you can also use 77grain otms and have similar trajectories link |
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Posted: 10/15/2022 1:49:40 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Wrong. The lacquer on the cases that melts in the chamber and caused the bullets to stick and the corrosive steel causes undue barrel wear. Copper doesn't corrode, it just gets a patina, that's why old barrels look green when you look at them with a boreshite. M855 doesn't used lacquered cases. And cases don't cause barrel wear; because they don't go down the barrel. You appear to be confusing M855 with Russian ammo, which typically uses lacquered steel cases (hard on extraction and extractors) and copper-washed steel jacketed bullets (harder on barrels because steel is harder than copper). Steel cases also don't obturate (fancy word to describe expanding against the chamber under pressure) like brass which adds additional extraction issues. |
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Posted: 10/15/2022 1:49:50 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Green tip is pointless IMO It has shitty pen, mediocre accuracy and bad terminal effects. With 55 you can also use 77grain otms and have similar trajectories link That I had no idea of with the 77grain thank you |
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Posted: 10/15/2022 1:51:06 AM EDT
[#22]
I mostly buy, stack, and shoot M193. But variety is the spice of life. I have a couple dozen mags worth of green tip and 64gr Fed Fusion. And a couple thousand rounds of various match grade.
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Posted: 10/15/2022 1:51:55 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Seriously? The price difference between online and local is huge. I want downward price pressure, not supporting local Fudd mark up. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I try not to buy ammo online mostly to support local businesses. The price difference between online and local is huge. I want downward price pressure, not supporting local Fudd mark up. The best price in not always the lowest price. Purchasing 101. |
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Posted: 10/15/2022 1:52:25 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That I had no idea of with the 77grain thank you IMI ftw. |
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Posted: 10/15/2022 1:54:26 AM EDT
[#25]
ETA: In all seriousness, in my experience the 855 tends to be about half as accurate as 193. I wouldn't use it beyond 100-200 regardless terminal effectiveness.
Quote HistoryQuoted: M855 doesn't used lacquered cases. And cases don't cause barrel wear; because they don't go down the barrel. You appear to be confusing M855 with Russian ammo, which typically uses lacquered steel cases (hard on extraction and extractors) and copper-washed steel jacketed bullets (harder on barrels because steel is harder than copper). Steel cases also don't obturate (fancy word to describe expanding against the chamber under pressure) like brass which adds additional extraction issues. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Wrong. The lacquer on the cases that melts in the chamber and caused the bullets to stick and the corrosive steel causes undue barrel wear. Copper doesn't corrode, it just gets a patina, that's why old barrels look green when you look at them with a boreshite. M855 doesn't used lacquered cases. And cases don't cause barrel wear; because they don't go down the barrel. You appear to be confusing M855 with Russian ammo, which typically uses lacquered steel cases (hard on extraction and extractors) and copper-washed steel jacketed bullets (harder on barrels because steel is harder than copper). Steel cases also don't obturate (fancy word to describe expanding against the chamber under pressure) like brass which adds additional extraction issues. lol |
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Posted: 10/15/2022 1:54:29 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: IMI ftw. I have a single box of IMI razor core I think it is I bought by accident I’ll have to get some more |
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Posted: 10/15/2022 2:17:47 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Shortens barrel life? How exactly does that work? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Is the green tip worth the extra cost? I’ve never gotten gray accuracy out of any that I’ve shot and I’ve read that it shortens barrel life by quite a bit. Shortens barrel life? How exactly does that work? Exactly what I would like to know. In theory, the 55gr should cause more wear due to the higher velocity, but the difference in wear is likely too small to measure. |
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Posted: 10/15/2022 6:47:30 AM EDT
[#28]
Not all 62s are Green Tip.
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Posted: 10/15/2022 7:02:20 AM EDT
[#29]
I have a couple hundred greenies left from Obama years and they shotgun pattern. I have a case of them from $T years and it’s extremely accurate. I’ve shot 6 different lots of 55s over the years and they’ve all been good accuracy wise. I’d buy 55s from here on out.
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Posted: 10/15/2022 7:04:37 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Shortens barrel life? How exactly does that work? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Is the green tip worth the extra cost? I’ve never gotten gray accuracy out of any that I’ve shot and I’ve read that it shortens barrel life by quite a bit. Shortens barrel life? How exactly does that work? Fudd lore |
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Posted: 10/15/2022 7:11:20 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Wrong. The lacquer on the cases melts in the chamber and causes the cases to stick and the corrosive steel causes undue barrel wear. Copper doesn't corrode, it just gets a patina, that's why old barrels look green when you look at them with a boreshite. 
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Posted: 10/15/2022 7:33:15 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If I remember right it requires a higher pressure to keep the Velocity where it should be and something about the steel penetrator causing Concentricity issues that can’t be squished out because the steel doesn’t deform like lead. No idea if that’s right I’m not a physicist or anyone smart really hell I could be remembering it wrong too Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Shortens barrel life? How exactly does that work? If I remember right it requires a higher pressure to keep the Velocity where it should be and something about the steel penetrator causing Concentricity issues that can’t be squished out because the steel doesn’t deform like lead. No idea if that’s right I’m not a physicist or anyone smart really hell I could be remembering it wrong too Buy better guns. Chrome lined hammer forged barrels have a purpose. But really my money is on you will never shoot it enough to make a difference or wear it out. |
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Posted: 10/15/2022 7:36:52 AM EDT
[#33]
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Posted: 10/15/2022 7:40:58 AM EDT
[#34]
All of my serious ammo is green tip or ss109.
No worries on my end |
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Posted: 10/15/2022 8:04:54 AM EDT
[#35]
Most of the 5.56 NATO rounds I have are Prvi M855. They shoot 2 MOA, which is plenty good for my purposes.
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Posted: 10/15/2022 8:06:51 AM EDT
[#36]
In before m193 and m855 1 moa shooters.
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Posted: 10/15/2022 8:08:07 AM EDT
[#37]
Somehow barrel twist not mentioned, yet.
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Posted: 10/15/2022 8:11:32 AM EDT
[#38]
Get 55 gr, it will penetrate only the first part of the skull and bounce around inside, causing more damage than the 62 gr through and through.
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Posted: 10/15/2022 8:14:58 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Somehow barrel twist not mentioned, yet. Clearly stabilizing is beyond this thread. Enjoy it for what it is . |
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Posted: 10/15/2022 8:16:44 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Somehow barrel twist not mentioned, yet. |
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Posted: 10/15/2022 8:22:13 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Your barrel is twisted? No wonder you're having issues Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Somehow barrel twist not mentioned, yet. 
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Posted: 10/15/2022 8:27:14 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Pressure for M855 is in the same range as M193, and it's like 4.8gr (?) penetrator that should never come in contact with the barrel. M855A1 is harder on barrels and higher pressure, as well as having a more robust penetrator; but is not green-tip. Other than shooting at someone with polyethylene plates or punching steel helmets at 550m, I'm not sure what it does better than M193. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: If I remember right it requires a higher pressure to keep the Velocity where it should be and something about the steel penetrator causing Concentricity issues that can’t be squished out because the steel doesn’t deform like lead. No idea if that’s right I’m not a physicist or anyone smart really hell I could be remembering it wrong too Pressure for M855 is in the same range as M193, and it's like 4.8gr (?) penetrator that should never come in contact with the barrel. M855A1 is harder on barrels and higher pressure, as well as having a more robust penetrator; but is not green-tip. Other than shooting at someone with polyethylene plates or punching steel helmets at 550m, I'm not sure what it does better than M193. +1 @Smd226 From the Ammo Oracle: M855 and M856 are newer rounds developed in the late 1970s by Fabrique Nationale (FN) of Belgium. FN was developing a new 5.56mm belt-fed machine gun they called the "Minimi" (Mini-Machinegun) for entry into the US military's Squad Automatic Weapon (SAW) program. The SAW was to augment, and in many cases replace, the 7.62×51mm M60 made by Saco Defense (now part of the General Dynamics Armament Division). Because there was a lot of resistance to giving up larger, longer-range round of the M60, FN focused on making the SAW perform better at longer ranges than existing 5.56 platforms (i.e., the M16). They did this primarily by developing new bullets: the SS-109 "ball" round and the L-110 tracer. The SS-109 bullet uses a "compound" core, with a lead base topped by a steel penetrator, all covered in a gilding-metal (copper alloy) jacket. The L-110 tracer bullet has a copper-plated steel jacket and like all tracer bullets, is hollowed out at the base and filled with tracing compound. Both bullets are much longer in length than the earlier 55gr bullets, especially the L-110 tracer, which was designed to trace out to 800m, verses 450m for the older M196 tracer round. Due to their increased length, these bullets require a faster rifling twist to be properly stabilized. The military settled on a twist rate of 1:7, which is a compromise between the 1:9 twist ideal for SS-109 bullets and the 1:6 twist ideal for L-110 tracers. Remember, the goal of these new bullets was improving long range performance. For example, the SS-109 bullet was proven to have better penetration of the then-current-issue steel helmet at 600m than the M80 "ball" ammo fired by the M60. The M80 ammo was not able to penetrate both sides of the helmet at that distance; the SS-109 bullet could. The L-110 tracers provided a visible trace out to 800m, which was seen as the maximum effective range of the SAW. These improvements in long-range performance satisfied the military and the US ultimately adopted the Minimi as the M249 SAW. They also adopted the new FN bullets and the US specs for the loaded rounds are called M855 and M856. About the time the SAW was adopted, the M16 "A2 revision" program was underway and it was decided to adopt the new SAW ammo (and its rifling twist) for the M16A2. As older M16A1 1:12 twist barrels were not able to stabilize the longer bullets, the new bullets had to be marked (in countries with older 1:12 rifles) in order to make sure that the new ammo wasn't used in the older rifles. M855 received green painted tips and M856 received orange. M193 is plain and M196 is red. If you MUST pick one, I would pick M193 since my shots will almost all likely be at < 100 yards, and the majority of my 5.56 is M193. But I also have a lot of M855/SS109 ammo including Prvi Partisan M855, IMI M855 and Australian ADI SS109 ammo. |
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Posted: 10/15/2022 8:27:45 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: M855 doesn't used lacquered cases. And cases don't cause barrel wear; because they don't go down the barrel. You appear to be confusing M855 with Russian ammo, which typically uses lacquered steel cases (hard on extraction and extractors) and copper-washed steel jacketed bullets (harder on barrels because steel is harder than copper). Steel cases also don't obturate (fancy word to describe expanding against the chamber under pressure) like brass which adds additional extraction issues. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Wrong. The lacquer on the cases that melts in the chamber and caused the bullets to stick and the corrosive steel causes undue barrel wear. Copper doesn't corrode, it just gets a patina, that's why old barrels look green when you look at them with a boreshite. M855 doesn't used lacquered cases. And cases don't cause barrel wear; because they don't go down the barrel. You appear to be confusing M855 with Russian ammo, which typically uses lacquered steel cases (hard on extraction and extractors) and copper-washed steel jacketed bullets (harder on barrels because steel is harder than copper). Steel cases also don't obturate (fancy word to describe expanding against the chamber under pressure) like brass which adds additional extraction issues. +1 |
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Posted: 10/15/2022 8:31:32 AM EDT
[#44]
If I need an AR, 193 will work just fine. 855 isn't really a thing. Any FMJ would and could have stopped the Raleigh shooter in my hood. One and done, just like the cop who took down a perp psycho at 180+ yards less than a month ago. 855 tears up the steel when I go to the local range that has it so they don't allow it. If I need 855 or A1 things are REALLY bad.
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Posted: 10/15/2022 8:34:24 AM EDT
[#45]
What are you shooting at? In most cases the .55 grain round will do just fine. Also, some ranges do not like 62gr penatrators. They chew up steel targets and do more damage to earthen backstops.
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Posted: 10/15/2022 8:39:16 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: All of my serious ammo is green tip or ss109. No worries on my end ^^^this^^^ I have 77 TMK and my 21" platform for when i wanna reach out and touch someone H |
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Posted: 10/15/2022 8:39:34 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: 55 |
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Posted: 10/15/2022 8:42:56 AM EDT
[#48]
Lots of dead guys in far away lands have proven that both are viable. Aside from concerns about barriers, soft points would be my choice, but you should always get both.
Lots of trolling here with a dash of tales from the gun counter. |
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Posted: 10/15/2022 8:44:06 AM EDT
[#49]
I stock both M193 and M855. A 3/4ths M193 and 1/4th M855.
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Posted: 10/15/2022 8:48:47 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The best price in not always the lowest price. Purchasing 101. @xciapup can you teach that to the buyers at my job?
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