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Posted: 9/10/2023 9:39:33 AM EDT
This is a thread similar to many that @frozenny has posted in the past. It's not my story but is a story of a friend of mine.
Most people ignore financial threads. It's a shame because we may seldom or never use our stored food, ammo, and our endless power generation gadgets but we ALL need money to live. You might get your money from your job, your trust fund, welfare, or handouts from drivers passing by your spot at an intersection holding up a "need help God bless" sign. But regardless of where your income comes from, you gotta have money. And, as you get older, you will likely (most people) have less and less income and less ability to make money (we all age and it sucks). So, having retirement income streams is critical if you want to live comfortably. Also, reducing living costs will make your retirement income go longer...and potentially allow you to have more retirement "play" money. So my friend....he's about 56 yrs old. He recently had issues at work (specifics on that are not relevant but he did get treated very poorly) and he was demoted. As a result, he took about a 25% pay cut. Luckily for him he stayed employed. My friend lives in a new and fairly large and somewhat expensive house in a nice city. It's just him and his wife. They have large utility bills and a fairly large house payment. He has $70k truck he purchased about 2 years ago. He has a large $40k camper he bought last year. Don't know if he has any credit card debt but I'd bet he does because they have done several European vacations over the past few years. His ego naturally took a hit with the demotion and he would like to leave. However, there's part of the problem. At his previous job, when he left it in the mid 2000s, he cashed out all his retirements and used the money to pay bills. So, he has his current retirement but only about 17 years or so of contributions to it. He can retire now based on his age (pension) but his monthly check would only be about $1500 so $18k per year PRE-TAX. He will have social security but the earliest he can collect it as far as I know is 62 yrs old. His wife does make a good living so he's got that going for him. Basically....HE'S FUCKED. He now has to work till he's 65 yrs old in order to boost his work retirement and delay taking SS so he can get more from SS as well as become eligible for Medicare. In talking to him initially, he was stressed to the max and was talking about selling stuff (smart). But, instead of selling stuff, they have decided his wife will pick up extra shifts at her job and he is exploring side income jobs to make up the difference. Between the two of them, they will be able to make up the difference. Despite the 25% income drop, he's still making good money for the area. Between him and his wife, they are well above the median income for the area. So, as far as dollars coming in, they are still in good shape even without working extra hours (if they got rid of some of their frivolous debt). The problem is, they have too many dollars going out. Too much and expensive of a house. Too expensive toys. Too much debt. The sad part is, instead of reducing costs, they have decided to work more hours. They definitely can't retire early and now have decided to work longer hours to pay for their expensive stuff and let's be honest....working long hours was easy when we were young but it's not easier as we get older. Most of us realistically will never be rich and we will not retire into a beach mansion in the FL Keys and do multiple expensive vacation trips per year. But, most of us would like to retire (or at least slow down working) as we get older. My friend mentioned above will most likely be in for a rude awakening as he gets closer to 65 years old if he doesn't change his ways and knowing him, he will probably change nothing. He and his wife have become slaves to their possessions due to excessive debt. |
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Yeah noticed that. It popped up as soon as I posted it. Must be a glitch in the forum software.
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You are 100% on the expenses part.
I am currently helping two different widows with their finances. Both have very similar base incomes, around $2200 - $2500 per month. Their expenses and savings, however, are vastly different. Person A. $2500 net income from a small pension and social security. Interest income on savings is an additional $700 per month. Medicare covers almost all medical costs. Small home is paid for. Property taxes are incredibly low, around $660 per year. Total monthly expenses budget is $2700 per month, which includes a generous amount for dining out, and vacations/travel. Surplus income of a little over $600 every month. Person B. $2000 net income from social security. Another $400 per month income between interest and small side business. Medical coverage covered by ACA plan, no premiums but HUGE deductibles (not medicare age yet). Medical care is the biggest monthly expense after the house payment. Home is not paid for, much more expensive homeowners ins/property taxes. Total monthly expense budget is $3000 per month, which is stripped to the BONE. Budget deficit of $700 which must be met by consuming savings or working, and this is still living on the razors edge. Very similar incomes in both cases. But a person A had planned for this period in life, had a much larger savings, and paid their home off, and moved to a very low cost of living area. Person B will likely need government assistance and medicaid within the next 5 years. |
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Quoted: You are 100% on the expenses part. I am currently helping two different widows with their finances. Both have very similar incomes, around $2400 - $2500 per month. Their expenses, however, are very different. Person A. $2500 net income from a small pension and social security. Interest income on savings is an additional $700 per month. Medicare covers almost all medical costs. Small home is paid for. Property taxes are incredibly low, around $660 per year. Total monthly expenses budget is $2700 per month, which includes a generous amount for dining out, and vacations/travel. Surplus income of a little over $600 every month. Person B. $2000 net income from social security. Another $400 per month income between interest and small side business. Medical coverage covered by ACA plan, no premiums but HUGE deductibles (not medicare age yet). Medical care is the biggest monthly expense after the house payment. Home is not paid for, much more expensive homeowners ins/property taxes. Total monthly expense budget is $3000 per month, which is stripped to the BONE. Budget deficit of $700 which must be met by consuming savings or working, and this is still living on the razors edge. Very similar incomes in both cases. But a person A had planned for this period in life, had a much larger savings, and paid their home off, and moved to a very low cost of living area. Person B will likely need government assistance and medicaid within the next 5 years. View Quote Good examples. Personally....I am not suggesting we should all save our pennies and live a diet of ramen noodles and water just so that we can get to the end of our lives with lots of money saved. We've all heard the stories of the millionaire who lived a destitute lifestyle and died with millions stuffed in their bed mattress or wherever. I want to enjoy life and that means I need money. Fortunately for me, I have pretty simple needs and wants. One of my toys is a paid for Jeep Wrangler. I saved up to buy it with cash. Then put some more cash into fixing and modifying it (it's a Jeep..what can I say!). I can toss some camping equipment into the back and go drive out to nearby national parks/forests and do some camping for just the cost of some gas and have a great time. I have some toys that cost money to purchase but I own them free of debt. I enjoy them immensely and more often than my friend will enjoy his toys because he's now working extra hours to pay for his toys. He's working....I'm out playing. I might not have the latest and greatest but they are mine (all mine) and I have just as much fun as those who have fancier ones they can't use because they are working to pay for them. I don't follow Dave Ramsey's financial concepts strictly but he does make a lot of sense financially. If you are a risk taker with money and have plenty of it, Dave Ramsey isn't for you. But, the average person would be wise to listen to his speeches and read his books and put much of what he says into practice even if you don't agree with everything he says. |
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Yes, I agree, screwed.
I'm now knocking on 70s door so I've been down the road so to say. I'll not bore you with "Here's what I did" but to say so far so good. Other than revolving debt which I can pay off at any time to keep my credit score up just in case, I have no debt. 4 cars, two motorcycles, good size boat that needs work, nice truck camper, and fixing to pay cash for an above average lawn tractor (getting too old for self propelled lawn mower). I don't do big vacations. Traveled the world for a living and if I never see in the inside of an airport again, I'll be happy. I do have a few comments. The biggest mistake I see people make is not understanding that they are going to get old. Almost everyone, including me, when younger has these fantastic retirement plans to only have them go up in smoke as they age. Hang onto your hats. I'm going to freak you out. It doesn't matter what you do, what you eat, what exercise you get, you get old and slow the hell down. In fact, all my friends who were health nuts have fallen the farthest. They thought themselves immortal. All of us, pay for the sins of our youth in our old age. All my friends who were runners have bad knees and most have had to have replacements. The life long drinkers, well, they're mostly not here now. I could go on and on. To sound like a broken record, the secret to a retirement plan is understanding its a plan. A plan has options and is subject to change. Otherwise its a decision and decision over time are guaranteed to change whether you like it or not. Its very common for folks in their 50's to buy those large ticket items they intend to use after retirement. The problem with that is when working, we're all just pissing off the wrong person or people from being unemployed. Hell sometimes, like in my case, you don't have to do a thing. It can just be circumstance, a change in economy, company buy out, etc. Best thing I did in my career was walk in one day and say "Take this job and shove it." It was wonderful. You have to be able to adapt and change. Here's my advice. The way you get around this pit fall is by age 50 and from then on, don't go in debt for anything you can't pay cash for. Debt is a tool like any other tool. It helps you accomplish things but only if you use it right. A ratchet makes a piss poor hammer. The problem with seeing a home/house as an investment is its like any other investment. Like stock, you don't see that equity until you sell it. 9 out of 10 folks I know who saw their house as an investment had to sell it to retire and old is a hell of a time to have move. I'm not saying that's bad but you need to know what you are doing. I can't tell you how many folks I've known to retire to only then realize they can't afford the tax and utilities on their homes. Hell my property tax just went up 30% as my home value doubled in two years. My county is growing like a weed from all the folks fleeing the blue states. A good thing when young can be a bad thing when old. I'm not going "Yippie the county just made me rich". Next is you can forget the entire idea Medicare is either good or free. My monthly outlay on this crap is almost to the penny the same I was paying when self employed and buying my own health insurance and in the case of medications its multiple times worse. I could write a book on this crap but not today. Next is the platitudes we all used are like anything else, they have changed. Cash is great but right now its losing 20% of its buying power even more depending on what. There's no such thing as enough. You need a revenue generator. Selling off his 401k was the dumbest move that man could take. I have a personal IRA and the largest annual contributions I made was just before I retired. Now another truism. The entire system is geared towards you working your entire life and then they take it all away from you. The best investment in life is and always has been family. That's why they work so hard to destroy it. They can scream abortion, transgender, whatever but its always about the money/wealth. You would not believe how much a lot of toys I have bought have gone up in value. Wealth is not just dollars. Now you can't always do this and get what you want but best to buy when you can things that will retain value or go up in value. It may mean more now but can mean more later. The entire game is based on you predicting your own death or at a minimum when you can't do shit and that can't do shit will come a lot faster then you think. Its all about contingency, contingency, contingency. Last but most important. Retirement is like life its self. Its all about getting back up on the horse that bucked you off. Its a moral imperative. Giving up is not an option. Its as simple as you give up you lose. That's exactly what the man in Colt's story has to do. Get back on the horse. Adapt. Hell everyone's big plan changes. That's why its a plan. Good luck you all. Like it or not luck is a factor a damn big one. Four more years of these loonies in charge and we'll all be getting back up on the horse. Tj |
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One thing that you have to prepare for that no one really does is having a major health crisis.
My life was buzzing along, I had money and land, saved up and then WHAM! I got a bacterial infection in me and it did most of the damage to my heart. Struggled along for a 5 years, shedding money as I got worst. Could barely work and no one wanted to hire me when they found out. Then woke up one day and couldn't breath. Since then, 2 heart valves replaced, my heart stopped, pace maker, then bacterial re-infection, and last year I'm now in constant 100% afib(rapid heart rhythm) now I'm so tired I can't, CAN'T, work. I'm lucky if I can do light house work most days. My garden is disappearing. Everything is falling apart. I need to move again, my current house(1,300) is slowly falling apart because it's too much for me. I need a small place, like 500sqft, in or near town because what little money I get, I can't afford even 1 car. But any old small cabin like that are going from $40K to $100K that are in so-so shape or wrecks. What I'm trying to say is that with the way things are, you get something bad, your medical bills are not your only expense. My mother had to take care of me, that was one expense that was saved on. But if she hadn't been there I would have either had to hire someone or go to a rest home. And I was in my early 40s when this happened. But she was so tired that we were mostly living on take out or frozen meals. And that stuff costs good money. Then constant trips to doctors or labs, more money and time. Then a car breaks down and need a rental, more $$$. A lot of stuff that you did before, you now are paying someone else to do, snow removal, grass cutting. Bottom line is that if you get really sick, the money flows even faster than you would think. |
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I think money is one of the best preps. In almost all my life emergencies I needed money more than ammo, more than a solar charger, etc.
Money is options and options are freedom. My wife and I both work but live below our means and invest/save before we see a dime. It’s why I haven’t got NV despite wanting it for a decade… But 3 months ago her company terminated her whole division. Nothing she could do. But because we have ~2 years expenses in a HYSA she didn’t have to take a job u less she wanted to. She could have retired at 41 and we’d still be fine. Less dinners out sure but not none either. Prepping is all about plan B-T or so. Money is options and options are good. |
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Thankfully my parents drilled financial wellness into me and my siblings. I've had to teach my wife (her parents were terrible at it, still are in some ways, by my wife is now just as frugal as I am).
I started a business in 7th grade with a $1200 loan from dad. Grew it to a value just shy of 6-figures by my freshmen year of college when I sold it. I immediately invested it. My insurance agent is always trying to sell me annuities and other products for later in life. I tell him I'm set, and he starts talking about average numbers for people my age and such. He has stopped asking now because I once leaned over the desk and said, "That number there, that you say the average person my age has saved, I have about 50 times that much, I've been investing in a Roth IRA since my teens. My plan is to have at least $5M when I retire." I do have a mortgage, and I actually did a major cash out refi a couple years ago because the value of my house went up a LOT and the rate was 1.75% (they're basically paying me to take money). But I didn't go buy a boat, or motorcycle. No, I turned around and loaned 6-figures to my dad for some capital improvements to his business. He pays me annual payments, I make the monthly's, and he grows his business much cheaper than getting a business loan, which ultimately benefits me. I'm still maxing my 401k/Roth-401k. I don't have a boat. I drive a $5k truck. And people ask why I don't just buy a new one. The one I have does everything I need it to do, just not quite as good as a new one. Many probably think I can't afford it, I don't care what they think. I could write a check this week for a brand new one. I don't want to though. I want to ensure my future is safe. Ultimately, it takes discipline and a little education. Most people are just ignorant, some were given the knowledge but chose to live invincible/careless lives instead. If we are to change the trend we need better education for our youth. It starts with the parents but educators are also responsible. I'm doing it with my kids. We have come up with ways for them to earn money on the farm. We take that money and give part to church or charity. Part they get to keep as spending money, the rest goes to investments. Usually, the spending money goes in too, when they hear that they get paid money to let it sit in their account they are excited to put the spending money in too. |
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Priorities......zero debt is always my first priority. Fun and entertainment are low on the list
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Quoted: I'm doing it with my kids. We have come up with ways for them to earn money on the farm. We take that money and give part to church or charity. Part they get to keep as spending money, the rest goes to investments. Usually, the spending money goes in too, when they hear that they get paid money to let it sit in their account they are excited to put the spending money in too. View Quote Same. We started with Give/Save/Spend jars. 10% goes in Give, then the remainder is split 50/50 between save and spend. Spend is theirs to do as they please. We try to guide them but it is hard to get 9 year olds to think differently. They rarely have ANYTHING in their spend jar. But we let them make their decisions as long as they are "paying themselves first". For the save - we opened investment accounts at Fidelity for each. They get to pick their investments. One chose 25% bank (MMF) the rest in a total market index fund. The other chose 100% index fund. We will see how they do. |
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Quoted: Thankfully my parents drilled financial wellness into me and my siblings. I've had to teach my wife (her parents were terrible at it, still are in some ways, by my wife is now just as frugal as I am). I started a business in 7th grade with a $1200 loan from dad. Grew it to a value just shy of 6-figures by my freshmen year of college when I sold it. I immediately invested it. My insurance agent is always trying to sell me annuities and other products for later in life. I tell him I'm set, and he starts talking about average numbers for people my age and such. He has stopped asking now because I once leaned over the desk and said, "That number there, that you say the average person my age has saved, I have about 50 times that much, I've been investing in a Roth IRA since my teens. My plan is to have at least $5M when I retire." I do have a mortgage, and I actually did a major cash out refi a couple years ago because the value of my house went up a LOT and the rate was 1.75% (they're basically paying me to take money). But I didn't go buy a boat, or motorcycle. No, I turned around and loaned 6-figures to my dad for some capital improvements to his business. He pays me annual payments, I make the monthly's, and he grows his business much cheaper than getting a business loan, which ultimately benefits me. I'm still maxing my 401k/Roth-401k. I don't have a boat. I drive a $5k truck. And people ask why I don't just buy a new one. The one I have does everything I need it to do, just not quite as good as a new one. Many probably think I can't afford it, I don't care what they think. I could write a check this week for a brand new one. I don't want to though. I want to ensure my future is safe. Ultimately, it takes discipline and a little education. Most people are just ignorant, some were given the knowledge but chose to live invincible/careless lives instead. If we are to change the trend we need better education for our youth. It starts with the parents but educators are also responsible. I'm doing it with my kids. We have come up with ways for them to earn money on the farm. We take that money and give part to church or charity. Part they get to keep as spending money, the rest goes to investments. Usually, the spending money goes in too, when they hear that they get paid money to let it sit in their account they are excited to put the spending money in too. View Quote This is what we do, My children work for our family business. Starting at 12, they are put on payroll for the summer (While it is not a lot of money, they work for it and should be paid as any other employee). Their entire pay goes to a Roth, and I give them 20% extra. 10% for Church / charity, 10% for them to spend however they wish (subject to family guidelines). It is never a whole lot of money, but it is a way to ingrain saving with them. |
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So, he’s basically the Federal Government. Rather than cutting expenses they are increasing revenue by any means necessary.
Good for him to follow the example of our leadership class. I’m sure it will work out for them. |
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I'll add my two cents....
Lots of Americans go charing into and through their 40's and 50's, and its usually the same story... The money comes in good, but people live large and spend larger. As a result, the spending fully equals or exceeds income. And life is good, until it isn't... The problem here is not inCOME. The problem is "out go".... Expenses.... Need a case? A very good friend hits 60. He's got a $100K job but has $110K lifestyle. It really isn't flashy cars and the rest, its more just careless, lazy spending. I don't have all the minute details, but I'll bet the balance sheet would show zero net worth. He gets a really bonus side job. Instead of making some money, and getting set up for eventually retirement, he immediately cranks up spending another level or two. The additional income immediately goes out the window when he buys a new pickup truck with all the bells and whistles ($75,000?) and then drops another $70,000 on a new pontoon boat. Hey, its absolutely positively gotta have the super duper upgraded sound system, and then is gotta be upgraded more with a larger amplifier and more speakers, and that's another $2,500..... you get the idea. Now he's 62. Lots of whining and whinging about retirement, and lack of cash. News flash: He's NEVER going to retire. Ever. The bank note on the pontoon boat alone is a 8 year loan. He's be 70 before he pays the boat off.... Income is rarely the problem. Undisciplined spending is. And while this IS a survival forum, I'd argue that this is a survival topic. Unchecked spending is exactly like eating all your beans and bacon today, and not having any food left for the remainder of the month.... Our ancestors knew intimately: Dont eat all the food in October. March is gonna suck. Save some wheat and potatoes and carrots for Winter. I'd argue the same goes for money..... NEWS FLASH: If you have a pension, read the fine print... Most pensions, good ones, only pay 2% of your final average salary for each year of service. Example is my girlfriend. In 3 years she crosses the 30 year mark and can collect her pension. If her final ave salary is $100,000, her pension will be $60,000. Thats an immediate 40% pay CUT. Not many Americans can handle a 10% drop in pay, let alone 40%... And it gets worse. Most Americans dont have a pension. They've got a 401K. And if they're lucky, there is $100,000 in it. Most are 'proud ' of their $100k 401k. Until they realize that this essentially means they can fund retirement for one, maybe two years... Retire at 60, broke at 62.... "But but but Social Security". Yeah, good luck on that. For most, social security will run somewhere between $12,000 and $24,000 per year. If you think dropping from $100K income to $60K pension is tough, try dropping from $100K to $25K... Most Americans never plan. They run to the grocery store three times a week, buying as needed and never storing any food for unplanned emergencies. They assume there will always be food on the shelves and that there will be money in their wallet to pay for said food. This is short sighted and stupid. The focus is always on the here and now, and its "I want my new toy NOW, and I'll make payments on it for years". Most are going to sit down with a financial planner, and suddenly come face to face with the cold hard truth... Yeah, your Dad retired at age 60, but he paid off his 1200 sq foot house 15 years earlier and he had a a company pension. Retirement was possible. You took a 30 year mortgage on a 3500 sq ft mansion, bought a $75000 truck on a 8 year note, dont really have any real savings, and dont have a pension. You. Are . Fucked.. Decisions have consequences. Being a dumb ass and spending all tomorrow's income today sets you up for failure. I hope you love your job, because you will be working it until you die... |
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Yep spot on frozenny. I am amazed at the number of people who don’t plan at all for the future especially as they get close to retirement. If my life goes as planned (and that’s never a guarantee) I’ll have somewhere around 100% income replacement for me in retirement from multiple sources. My wife will not have nearly that much due to poor financial decisions made early in life. So, together we will be taking a “pay cut” in retirement. We are already planning for it….and we are still at least 15 years away from retirement.
To prepare for it, we built a house in a low cost of living area. We added a lot of extra insulation so our utility costs are a fraction of our friends’ costs. We have a large amount of equity in the house and have paid off over 1/2 of the mortgage we got when we built the house 7 years ago. We are currently on track to have the house paid for in 4-5 years but if I get the new additional income stream I’m working on, we should be able to have it paid off in 1-2 more years. I still have about 15 more working years ahead of me so once the house is paid for, we may be looking at a rental or two to purchase to provide a little extra future retirement income. We are planning for the inevitable income reduction but still want to be able to do things we like once we retire…..and that takes money. Not a lot of money but still need some. My friend in the story above is close to retirement but he keeps spending like a drunken sailor on a port call in Thailand. He’s in trouble. Funny thing is…..he could still do the things he wants to for less money. Sell the big expensive house and downsize. They live in a pretty desirable area and houses are still selling fast for good prices (I fear not for long though). He could sell the expensive camper and buy a simpler one. Nice used ones can be found for $15k. The truck is an issue because if he wanted to haul a camper he needs enough truck to do it. But, with a smaller camper he could buy a used, less expensive truck to haul it. They could basically do all the fun things they want to for a whole lot less money….but it would require downsizing and simplifying. I don’t think they are willing to do that because their answer is “work harder and longer”. And, their decisions will result in less time to enjoy the toys they are working so many hours to pay for. I just shake my head. I am in way better financial shape than he is but if I was in his shoes, I could take action now and turn things around. I am younger than he is so I have more time. Still wouldn’t be as good a retirement as I would like but still better than he will have. The problem is, he doesn’t have enough time left in his working life to turn everything around and that’s if he makes changes NOW. Since he’s not making changes, he’s going to have to work a lot longer and will still have a rough time in retirement. He will eventually be FORCED to sell that nice big house because even without the toys, once he finds himself retired, he won’t be able to even afford that house. I don’t know anything about his wife’s retirement so I hope she has more than he does. |
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Remember guys a plan has options and going down one path is not a plan, it's a decision.
My pension disappeared not at age 40 but my late 50s. Short version, an English company bought my corporation out and did all the nasty shit they can't do in the UK here. IMHO, you can't count on anything except maybe Mr. Murphy is going to screw something up. My retirement plan must have shifted a dozen times in just the last ten years before retirement. Heck, its still changing. I still have a plan and the plan is adapting. Some of us actually didn't want to retire. We had careers not jobs basically a skill set. That doesn't work either. Age and health waits on no man. If we are lucky and I was, we can dabble in our later years but even that you just can't do it anymore. Discovering your new limitations is and will be an ongoing thing. The irony of this is what impacts this the most is the decisions we make in the early years in our life when the very last thing on our minds is retirement. It's education and work ethic. The Japanese have a saying "Work hard, party hard." In context to our topic, its work "Work hard so we can retire well." What is well depends on what you want out of life. Some people want to see the world while others want to just watch the grass grow. It starts with an understanding of morality and duty and ends with knowing yourself. What worked for me. First and foremost was going through what today people would think of as living hell early in life. I was not gifted with an inheritance a boost up so to say. It was early on work full time, go to school full time, and join the military to pay for my education. I have little hope the spoiled generations following me will do this. I can only hope their boost is enough to see them through. This country is so rich now, its a handicap. Next was understanding net worth, not gross, net. Everyone knows being debt free is a goal but many understand don't, it doesn't mean not having a loan. A loan is a financial tool to achieve a goal and its only a burden if it has control over you. I can't even recall how many times I've paid off some loan just because it became a burden. Its been many years since I took a loan I couldn't have paid cash for something. Taxes are a burden as well. Interest vs tax deduction, now there's a topic for a book. I have always managed my worth like it was a business. BIG WARNING, you may have let the company manage your tax burden all you life but when you retire all of us suddenly have to manage our taxes like we are a business. Another topic for a book. Its great to use someone else's money for free but I can tell you I haven't seen a single one of those it's free's that truly was free and didn't have a got you in their terms. Not all but the vast majority of loans I have had to simply write a check and pay off were those "No Interest" loans. I'll give you a classic example. Lowes buy it on the card no interest loan. Sounds great huh. What they don't tell you is in the fine print is buy anything else on that card, it comes off first then if the principle isn't paid on the initial item at term, you get hit with the full interest. That doesn't mean you can't use that crap. It simply means you need to be the exception not the rule and that's right back to getting to the point, you don't buy anything on a loan you can't write a check for. A step farther, don't pay interest unless you benefit from the interest. A loan is not about getting things sooner. It should be about managing cash flow. Equally important in my planning was not planning to downsize anything/nothing. I planned on retirement at my then current financial burden. If you can't do that, your planning is off and Mr. Murphy's going to bang you in the nose. You are going to need that money you were paying on that house. A lot of things are totally out of your control like inflation and property values. Biggest retirement shocks. Hands down number 1 is Medicare sucks. It costs as much as private insurance and the coverage is far worse especially the damn drug plans. I'm going to make a bold statement here. If you are not planning on a minimum of $1,000 a month per couple for medical costs, you will receive inferior care. Next is you will not believe how important that 401K/IRA is. Even if you plan on making your goals just based on income, it won't be enough. Mr. Murphy has a target on the back of retired folks. The unknowns are every year. This year it was house assessment doubled, insurance doubled and tax burden went up 30%. One of my dogs is sick that's going to be $1,400 minimum and got to buy a lawn tractor because we can't walk behind the lawn mower anymore. Another plan bit the dust. We didn't foresee even the lawn services only want to do easy lawns to mow and finding anybody to do anything these days is impossible. Not even druggie boy, gotta watch him like a hawk, wants to work. Fentanyl is cheap. My boat, once a major part of my retirement plan, I retired it. I just don't have the energy to keep it up now. Still all that said, the good outweighs the bad. Had I known, I would have retired earlier. I've put 40,000 miles on my Harley. Not having to be here at this time is pretty darn cool. We go camping on a whim. We go visit relatives on a whim. We don't socialize anymore well because we just don't want to anymore. Surprise, that's actually a good thing. When I do take a nip, it's 10-12 year old barrel proof, the really good stuff. Keep plugging away guys. Have a plan, adapt your plan as you go and you'll make it. Tj |
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What kind of BS company doesn’t fire someone, but instead demotes them and slashes their pay by 25%?
I don’t see this working anywhere outside of the military. If that happened to me, my new job within the company would be to sabotage them in every way I could. |
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I do not think your friend is in an enviable position. I also do not see how he is "FUCKED.’
Is it because he has to work until 65 and his wife is working more? |
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We have a financial advisor that covers the entire state. He said the more urban customers are upside down compared to his rural customers. Your results may vary.
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Quoted: What kind of BS company doesn’t fire someone, but instead demotes them and slashes their pay by 25%? I don’t see this working anywhere outside of the military. If that happened to me, my new job within the company would be to sabotage them in every way I could. View Quote Then you would be surprised the amount of companies that will gladly slash your pay 25% w/o even demoting you first. |
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Quoted: Then you would be surprised the amount of companies that will gladly slash your pay 25% w/o even demoting you first. View Quote Whether a formal demotion is announced or not, in 2023 America, what management team thinks this is a profitable strategy? All someone is going to do after a 25% slash is tear up everything they can touch on their way out to the next job. |
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These sorts of threads tend to come up more when the economy is bad versus when it is (at least perceived) that the economy is good.
There is a lesson there- you should expect some "bad" in life and plan for it. Don't eat all this season's corn, put some of it back. I'm stating that in reference to money. When the economy is good and someone posts something like this, the replies about getting out of debt are usually of the line of "I won't get 1% cash back if I don't spend spend spend on my CC!" or "my kids will die if we don't do to disneyland every summer!" But it's precisely when the economy is good that we need to chucking a little more money to the side. If you regularly save 10%, when it's good, bump it to 12 or 15%. You'll be glad you did later. Getting completely out of debt is the #1 hands down best prep anyone can make, period full stop end of story. #2 is getting in shape and healthy and a close second. In the 90's I bought land, slowly built a small house for cash, then put in a small AE system. My original intent was this would be my BOL, not necessarily my main home. Circumstances being what they were, major downturn in our industry and a new baby on the way, we ended up moving here full time. So little income at the time I started a second business but as you know that sort of thing takes time (and money) to develop. We were thankful that my "preps" were able to keep us alive- plenty of storage food to eat supplemented by fresh fruits and veg from the gardens and orchards, rabbits and chickens we raised, etc. That small AE system kept us from having an electrical bill. When we (rarely) did go to the grocery store back then our average bill was around $16. This went on for several years. Unfortunately while we had no mortgage or long term debt, I did have some CC debt, later a car loan, etc. After a couple half hearted attempts, we set out to completely get free of that crap. 2 or so years more of struggle and in late 2008/early 2009 we became completely debt free. During the next year, because of being (and staying) debt free, we were able to do more preparing than we had done in the previous 5. In addition we were able to start saving a helluva lot more, contributing to Roths and 529 plans again heavily, etc. Now our child is in college paid for by our $50. and $100. a month contributions to the 529 plan all those years ago, so he won't have any "college debt" and neither will we. Over time, you can acquire some of the "fun stuff" you think you want- or actually NEED as a serious survivor- but you don't need to go into debt for it, and truthfully shouldn't. But in the inverse, good preparations and planning can actually help you when times are tough. |
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I’m a professional wealth manager. After almost 30 years, hundreds of clients, and thousands of case studies, here is my sage observation distilled down to one statement:
The fastest way to get poor is to act rich. OP’s friend acted rich. Now he’s poor. |
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Quoted: What kind of BS company doesn’t fire someone, but instead demotes them and slashes their pay by 25%? I don’t see this working anywhere outside of the military. If that happened to me, my new job within the company would be to sabotage them in every way I could. View Quote Follow the fairly obvious clues folks! His buddy is most likely a govt employee, with a govt pension plan. Probably demoted from a supervisory position back to a regular one. Sometimes these pensions are golden handcuffs, as you are stuck at the particular agency, or sometimes you can go anywhere in the state, depends on how their system works. The guy cashed his contributions in once, which makes it sound like they have a variety of systems. Dumb move, as that is why he cannot retire now. (Plus out of control spending). Sometimes that desire to jump from one place to another has dire consequences. Like the guy I know who jumped from one agency to another, then jumped into a different state, so a totally different system. So he added at least several years of working to his career…. However he was killed before he could retire. He would have already been eligible to retire already if he had stayed in the first state though… |
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Quoted: I’m a professional wealth manager. After almost 30 years, hundreds of clients, and thousands of case studies, here is my sage observation distilled down to one statement: The fastest way to get poor is to act rich. OP’s friend acted rich. Now he’s poor. View Quote I think that's a very accurate statement. I don't think living an austere life just to die with gobs of money is a good way to live. If you want to live like that, go for it. But, I don't want to. I want to enjoy life. I like to spend money to do things I like to do. But, I also don't need to spend gobs of money to do it. Wife and I have a couple we are friends with. They both make a LOT of money. Probably in the area of $500k per year. We like to take our side by sides and ride trails together. They drive a $35k side by side. I drive a $5500 side by side (paid for with cash). I would love to have their machine. It's very very nice. Mine isn't as fancy. But, we all get to the same places and see the same trails and scenery. I don't need to have that fancy machine. They have the money to buy those fancy machines. I don't need to try to keep up with them and their expenditures to have the same enjoyment. |
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Quoted: I'll add my two cents.... Lots of Americans go charing into and through their 40's and 50's, and its usually the same story... The money comes in good, but people live large and spend larger. As a result, the spending fully equals or exceeds income. And life is good, until it isn't... The problem here is not inCOME. The problem is "out go".... Expenses.... Need a case? A very good friend hits 60. He's got a $100K job but has $110K lifestyle. It really isn't flashy cars and the rest, its more just careless, lazy spending. I don't have all the minute details, but I'll bet the balance sheet would show zero net worth. He gets a really bonus side job. Instead of making some money, and getting set up for eventually retirement, he immediately cranks up spending another level or two. The additional income immediately goes out the window when he buys a new pickup truck with all the bells and whistles ($75,000?) and then drops another $70,000 on a new pontoon boat. Hey, its absolutely positively gotta have the super duper upgraded sound system, and then is gotta be upgraded more with a larger amplifier and more speakers, and that's another $2,500..... you get the idea. Now he's 62. Lots of whining and whinging about retirement, and lack of cash. News flash: He's NEVER going to retire. Ever. The bank note on the pontoon boat alone is a 8 year loan. He's be 70 before he pays the boat off.... Income is rarely the problem. Undisciplined spending is. And while this IS a survival forum, I'd argue that this is a survival topic. Unchecked spending is exactly like eating all your beans and bacon today, and not having any food left for the remainder of the month.... Our ancestors knew intimately: Dont eat all the food in October. March is gonna suck. Save some wheat and potatoes and carrots for Winter. I'd argue the same goes for money..... NEWS FLASH: If you have a pension, read the fine print... Most pensions, good ones, only pay 2% of your final average salary for each year of service. Example is my girlfriend. In 3 years she crosses the 30 year mark and can collect her pension. If her final ave salary is $100,000, her pension will be $60,000. Thats an immediate 40% pay CUT. Not many Americans can handle a 10% drop in pay, let alone 40%... And it gets worse. Most Americans dont have a pension. They've got a 401K. And if they're lucky, there is $100,000 in it. Most are 'proud ' of their $100k 401k. Until they realize that this essentially means they can fund retirement for one, maybe two years... Retire at 60, broke at 62.... "But but but Social Security". Yeah, good luck on that. For most, social security will run somewhere between $12,000 and $24,000 per year. If you think dropping from $100K income to $60K pension is tough, try dropping from $100K to $25K... Most Americans never plan. They run to the grocery store three times a week, buying as needed and never storing any food for unplanned emergencies. They assume there will always be food on the shelves and that there will be money in their wallet to pay for said food. This is short sighted and stupid. The focus is always on the here and now, and its "I want my new toy NOW, and I'll make payments on it for years". Most are going to sit down with a financial planner, and suddenly come face to face with the cold hard truth... Yeah, your Dad retired at age 60, but he paid off his 1200 sq foot house 15 years earlier and he had a a company pension. Retirement was possible. You took a 30 year mortgage on a 3500 sq ft mansion, bought a $75000 truck on a 8 year note, dont really have any real savings, and dont have a pension. You. Are . Fucked.. Decisions have consequences. Being a dumb ass and spending all tomorrow's income today sets you up for failure. I hope you love your job, because you will be working it until you die... View Quote With regards to your GF and her pension, stop looking at it from just the raw income number, it means very little by itself… If you have someone pulling 60% / 60k with a pension, they are miles ahead of the average person. Hell 60k is like having 1.5M in investments to draw from at 4%. Many pension plans still do have you pay into social security, so add that on. Probably 20k or so for her. Then you should save some additional on top of pension contributions. She likely will have more money available to spend after retiring than before if she does it correctly. It might be a “40% pay cut” but sure as hell it does not mean 40% less money for spending. Probably will mean more for discretionary spending than before actually. Here are some of the factors for me- subtract these after retirement, as you are not paying them: Social security contributions Pension contributions Deferred comp contributions state income taxes (was a savings for me) Additionally: Kids moved out/college is done House paid off Cars paid off All that stuff dropping off of your expenses means you certainly can do well with less income than when you were working. I know, I did the math myself when I was ready to retire (at 50). Yes medical costs will increase, but not nearly as much as the stuff that dropped off. I basically took home 2/3 of my pay when I worked. You “take home” a lot more of your retirement income though. Step 1 - figure out what you spend every month. Might be enlightening. Step 2 - figure out what you think you will spend when retired. Step 3 - make sure you have the income amount shown in step #2, multiplied by a safety margin of 50%, 100%, or whatever makes you sleep well at night. Step 4 - make sure the income for Step #3 is coming in from different sources, ie- not all the eggs in one basket. Basically- you are right about a lot of stuff, but thinking someone with a 60% pension is getting hosed is way off base. (I sure wish I got 60%). Anyone getting that is likely sitting better than most of the USA, and maybe has the ability to collect social security, and definitely can save up some in a deferred comp/457 type account as well. Could be a lot worse off. |
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Quoted: With regards to your GF and her pension, stop looking at it from just the raw income number, it means very little by itself… If you have someone pulling 60% / 60k with a pension, they are miles ahead of the average person. Hell 60k is like having 1.5M in investments to draw from at 4%. Many pension plans still do have you pay into social security, so add that on. Probably 20k or so for her. Then you should save some additional on top of pension contributions. She likely will have more money available to spend after retiring than before if she does it correctly. It might be a “40% pay cut” but sure as hell it does not mean 40% less money for spending. Probably will mean more for discretionary spending than before actually. Here are some of the factors for me- subtract these after retirement, as you are not paying them: Social security contributions Pension contributions Deferred comp contributions state income taxes (was a savings for me) Additionally: Kids moved out/college is done House paid off Cars paid off All that stuff dropping off of your expenses means you certainly can do well with less income than when you were working. I know, I did the math myself when I was ready to retire (at 50). Yes medical costs will increase, but not nearly as much as the stuff that dropped off. I basically took home 2/3 of my pay when I worked. You “take home” a lot more of your retirement income though. Step 1 - figure out what you spend every month. Might be enlightening. Step 2 - figure out what you think you will spend when retired. Step 3 - make sure you have the income amount shown in step #2, multiplied by a safety margin of 50%, 100%, or whatever makes you sleep well at night. Step 4 - make sure the income for Step #3 is coming in from different sources, ie- not all the eggs in one basket. Basically- you are right about a lot of stuff, but thinking someone with a 60% pension is getting hosed is way off base. (I sure wish I got 60%). Anyone getting that is likely sitting better than most of the USA, and maybe has the ability to collect social security, and definitely can save up some in a deferred comp/457 type account as well. Could be a lot worse off. View Quote I don’t think that’s his point but maybe I missed it. The reality is, MOST people will have less cash income in retirement than they will working. A few will do better…..most will not. The key which I think you covered is, get your expenses down BEFORE you retire. If you do not, your retirement money reduction will do it for you and without regard for your wants and desires. Many people aren’t planning for the pay reduction. If you can get your expenses down well before you retire, you can sock away the extra which will be more money in retirement AND get used to living on less so your retirement reduction won’t hit nearly as hard. If we keep living high as we near retirement, retirement will either come as a shock or we will never be able to retire (which my friend is facing). If we are involuntarily forced into retirement (heath issues?) having reduced expenditures will become critical. Lots of good comments in this thread so thanks to those who have and will contribute useful info. It’s interesting when I’ve had conversations with people who have no financial sense. Many get upset and angry with me. I only have these conversations any more with people who are interested in the topic. I think a lot of people don’t want to face their own lack of planning for retirement so they lash out when it’s pointed out. I have a brother like that. Good guy and a hard worker but he has nothing for retirement. His plan is to work till he dies. He’s told me that. It’ll be sad for him when we both get to retirement age and he’s struggling to make ends meet and I’m enjoying retirement. Another brother of mine has been working on him to get him to start thinking about it. He’s about to turn 40 so realistically, it’s probably too late. Luckily, his wife has a retirement through her employer so between them they will have something just not much. |
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Socially, 99% of the time I do not talk about money with anyone, unless they ask. I put the 1% in there in case I accidentally broke that rule. If they ask, and then the conversation is turning south, time to shut up. I have absolutely no desire to say “well I tried to tell you” or “see, I told you I was right.” For me that goes with any unsolicited advice.
No one wants to hear the reality of it, and even less than no one wants to do what is necessary. With my kids, sure I will. That is my mandate, I have been entrusted to raise them to be independent. Even my sister is a no money talk zone, and she’s a mess with money. My parents are well off and are having a great retirement, but that doesn’t mean I give them any unsolicited advice. My parents did reinforce a good work ethic and saving mentality in me, but by no measure did they teach me how to manage money. |
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Quoted: What kind of BS company doesn’t fire someone, but instead demotes them and slashes their pay by 25%? I don’t see this working anywhere outside of the military. If that happened to me, my new job within the company would be to sabotage them in every way I could. View Quote Most times the company will demote and cut pay hoping you will quit so they don't have to pay severance or unemployment benefits. It's part of the plan. |
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Quoted: Most times the company will demote and cut pay hoping you will quit so they don't have to pay severance or unemployment benefits. It's part of the plan. View Quote I spent decades in corporate America. Absolutely, when they decide to reduce cost anyone who quits is considered a bonus. That's how bean counters think. A businessman, on the other hand, will look at solving the companies problems by growing the company. Unfortunately they are quite rare compared to the cutters and slashers. Cutting and slashing is the easier path. Unfortunately, it seldom works, almost never. Reducing always leads to less productivity, less quality, and that leads to less market share even if you have the best price. It puts the company into a death spiral and at the very best prolongs the inevitable. Best to quit. What it does though is buy you the time to pick and choose how and when you quit. He who laughs last, wins. Tj Story time "Take this job and shove it." I spent much of my career with a Fortune 500 company in a $120 million division. A very long sad story very short, we were bought out by the English and their big plan of moving production to 3rd World countries with lower labor costs. The stress from that period of my life almost killed me. Anyway there was a light at the end of the tunnel. What couldn't be moved, they sold off and my products were sold off to two really great entrepreneurs. Man I like these guys. They unfortunately financed the buyout through a mezzanine banking group, a bunch of Harvard MBAs which meant they didn't understand shit. The bankers then promised to finance a competitive buyout, renigged on the loan, and squeezed the two entrepreneurs out. Their great plan was slash and burn to get the profitability up and then sell again. They brought in their people, CEO and accountants, with their 80/20 plan. Here I go again. Time to prove my worth, but I was used to it and literally the number 1 guy in my field in the world, a big part due to the great guys that came before me. After a grueling week on the road with the new CEO over drinks, the guy tells me how great I am, he really likes me, BUT he has this new plan. Everyone is going to take a 20% cut in pay and a reduction in benefits but I'll still have a job. In fact, he says, in charge. I flat out tell the man, "I'm the best in my field in the world and the type person you increase their pay to go through this shit." He looks at me and says, "Yeah but the Smoky Mountains is a great place to live and you won't want to move." I was pissed. I didn't make a call but started taking those calls I had been avoiding for years. I lined up a job that not only increased my pay by a good 1/3rd but could stay where I was. I walk into the CEOs office and tell him I quit and to not bother to counter offer because I'm probably making more than him. The look on his face was priceless as it dawned on him he just screwed up. It then turned to anger as he reminded me, "You signed a non-compete agreement." I just smiled and said "No I didn't. I started working for this company 30 years ago and we didn't have those damn things back then." Second shocked look that turned into anger. Now he picks up the phone right in front of me, calls up the HR director and tells her what's going on, and demands she pull my file and come to his office. She comes in and right off says, "No they didn't have those 30 years ago." Now the butthole is really mad so instead of showing me the door, he holds me to my two week notice so I miss some pay. As I'm being escorted out the door on my last day I go by his office, stick my head in, and say "Take this job and shove it." Hands down, best moment of my working career. In case you are wondering, the company I went to work for was privately held so no corporate politics, their only business stratagem was grow the company, and the last years of my career were the best of my career. I worked with great guys that are my friends. We traveled the world together and I had a ball. As for the villains in my story. The English company once touted as genius for their move to 3rd world plan pretty much destroyed everything they touched and their stock fell to penny stocks. There's remnants out there but the name once everyone knew nobody does now. The company I worked for, the mezzanine bankers great strategy bankrupted the company and the assets were sold off by the court. Once the leader in their product, what's left is a small subdivision of a much larger company. I'd tell you this was justice or something like that but a hell of a lot of very fine people that put their heart and souls into those products got screwed over royally. It was literally 1,000s of people and dozens of factories all over the US. My products, once employing 1,200, the handful that are left actually are the lucky ones. After travelling the world and been in more business' than I can remember, I am amazed there's still work in this country. While the world works to plans and goals over decades, we don't think farther than the length of our peckers. Where their governments do amazing things to insure they succeed ours is like that mezzanine banker group trying to shut everyone down. Tj |
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Quoted: What kind of BS company doesn’t fire someone, but instead demotes them and slashes their pay by 25%? I don’t see this working anywhere outside of the military. If that happened to me, my new job within the company would be to sabotage them in every way I could. View Quote Happened to my wife4 years ago. She was working in the pharmacy as a pharmacist, company says that they will be reducing everyone's hours by 10% from 40 to 36. "Salary" goes down by 10% as well. Everyone says yay, more time with the family. Um, except that the workload didn't go down at all. Then Covid happened, and business went up 30%, with fewer techs and hours available. She chooses to come in an hour early just to get caught up enough so her day doesn't totally skull-fuck her. Company says tough shit, keep on working peon. As a rule, pharmacists are of a personality that doesn't complain to the company, doesn't put up a fuss. They just quiet quit and start stealing pills to keep their sanity (or in the case of my wife, drink more wine when she comes home because she is so totally stressed that the usual stuff like meditation/yoga/etc isn't enough). So 30 more work, for 10% less wages, pre-Covid. Now its record profits, yay, company, but the worker gets fucked. And the company doesn't understand why nobody wants to work for them... sadly all the companies are run the same way so leaving doesn't really accomplish much. |
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Quoted: Happened to my wife4 years ago. She was working in the pharmacy as a pharmacist, company says that they will be reducing everyone's hours by 10% from 40 to 36. "Salary" goes down by 10% as well. Everyone says yay, more time with the family. Um, except that the workload didn't go down at all. Then Covid happened, and business went up 30%, with fewer techs and hours available. She chooses to come in an hour early just to get caught up enough so her day doesn't totally skull-fuck her. Company says tough shit, keep on working peon. As a rule, pharmacists are of a personality that doesn't complain to the company, doesn't put up a fuss. They just quiet quit and start stealing pills to keep their sanity (or in the case of my wife, drink more wine when she comes home because she is so totally stressed that the usual stuff like meditation/yoga/etc isn't enough). So 30 more work, for 10% less wages, pre-Covid. Now its record profits, yay, company, but the worker gets fucked. And the company doesn't understand why nobody wants to work for them... sadly all the companies are run the same way so leaving doesn't really accomplish much. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: What kind of BS company doesn’t fire someone, but instead demotes them and slashes their pay by 25%? I don’t see this working anywhere outside of the military. If that happened to me, my new job within the company would be to sabotage them in every way I could. Happened to my wife4 years ago. She was working in the pharmacy as a pharmacist, company says that they will be reducing everyone's hours by 10% from 40 to 36. "Salary" goes down by 10% as well. Everyone says yay, more time with the family. Um, except that the workload didn't go down at all. Then Covid happened, and business went up 30%, with fewer techs and hours available. She chooses to come in an hour early just to get caught up enough so her day doesn't totally skull-fuck her. Company says tough shit, keep on working peon. As a rule, pharmacists are of a personality that doesn't complain to the company, doesn't put up a fuss. They just quiet quit and start stealing pills to keep their sanity (or in the case of my wife, drink more wine when she comes home because she is so totally stressed that the usual stuff like meditation/yoga/etc isn't enough). So 30 more work, for 10% less wages, pre-Covid. Now its record profits, yay, company, but the worker gets fucked. And the company doesn't understand why nobody wants to work for them... sadly all the companies are run the same way so leaving doesn't really accomplish much. The problem is, people will work for ''free'' when companies do stuff like this and they know it. If you pay for 36 hours, you ONLY work 36 hours. If you catch flack, you contact state employment boards, have documentation, and break it off in their ass. |
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Quoted: The problem is, people will work for ''free'' when companies do stuff like this and they know it. If you pay for 36 hours, you ONLY work 36 hours. If you catch flack, you contact state employment boards, have documentation, and break it off in their ass. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: What kind of BS company doesn’t fire someone, but instead demotes them and slashes their pay by 25%? I don’t see this working anywhere outside of the military. If that happened to me, my new job within the company would be to sabotage them in every way I could. Happened to my wife4 years ago. She was working in the pharmacy as a pharmacist, company says that they will be reducing everyone's hours by 10% from 40 to 36. "Salary" goes down by 10% as well. Everyone says yay, more time with the family. Um, except that the workload didn't go down at all. Then Covid happened, and business went up 30%, with fewer techs and hours available. She chooses to come in an hour early just to get caught up enough so her day doesn't totally skull-fuck her. Company says tough shit, keep on working peon. As a rule, pharmacists are of a personality that doesn't complain to the company, doesn't put up a fuss. They just quiet quit and start stealing pills to keep their sanity (or in the case of my wife, drink more wine when she comes home because she is so totally stressed that the usual stuff like meditation/yoga/etc isn't enough). So 30 more work, for 10% less wages, pre-Covid. Now its record profits, yay, company, but the worker gets fucked. And the company doesn't understand why nobody wants to work for them... sadly all the companies are run the same way so leaving doesn't really accomplish much. The problem is, people will work for ''free'' when companies do stuff like this and they know it. If you pay for 36 hours, you ONLY work 36 hours. If you catch flack, you contact state employment boards, have documentation, and break it off in their ass. Given that she is an exempt "professional", hardly any of the usual labor law protections apply to her. Buuuut, they track her hours, and list hours worked on her pay stub, so its basically a situation where she is "salaried professional" because it suits them, but pay her like an hourly when it suits them. She doesn't even get meal breaks, nor bathroom breaks (unless you count running to the bathroom halfway across the store once or twice in an 11 hour shift before she pisses herself...). "needs of the business" means she is supposed to eat as she works, but that doesn't work out so well when she is so overloaded there's hardly time to shove a cracker or cookie into her mouth between scripts. Pretty much forget about eating anything resembling healthy, other than a carrot piece or celery, etc. Yesterday I sent her in with an PB&J sandwich, started at 9am, she didn't get to eat that sandwich until 4pm. Pharmacists don't put up a fuss, they don't make waves, they don't stand up for themselves. Its just their personality type I guess. There had been an attempt to organize an pharmacy union at one point but that fell apart. Complaining to the pharmacy board is pointless - they are pretty useless - most of the people there want to work in big Pharma or the retail chain management at some point so they don't rock the boat lest they alienate potential future employers. Complain to the labor board? Funny... you're not going to win, and you'll get blackballed. |
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I retired on March 20, 2020 at 61.5 when offered a COVID layoff. My bills are $800 / month. Taxes , Insurance's, Utilities. Cars are paid off as well as the homestead.
I wasn't waiting for my 65th BDay to retire, which was Monday |
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Quoted: I retired on March 20, 2020 at 61.5 when offered a COVID layoff. My bills are $800 / month. Taxes , Insurance's, Utilities. Cars are paid off as well as the homestead. I wasn't waiting for my 65th BDay to retire, which was Monday View Quote Sounds you reduced your expenses to the point that retirement was easily possible. Smart. Too bad most people don’t understand that. |
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Quoted: This is a thread similar to many that @frozenny has posted in the past. It's not my story but is a story of a friend of mine. Most people ignore financial threads. It's a shame because we may seldom or never use our stored food, ammo, and our endless power generation gadgets but we ALL need money to live. You might get your money from your job, your trust fund, welfare, or handouts from drivers passing by your spot at an intersection holding up a "need help God bless" sign. But regardless of where your income comes from, you gotta have money. And, as you get older, you will likely (most people) have less and less income and less ability to make money (we all age and it sucks). So, having retirement income streams is critical if you want to live comfortably. Also, reducing living costs will make your retirement income go longer...and potentially allow you to have more retirement "play" money. So my friend....he's about 56 yrs old. He recently had issues at work (specifics on that are not relevant but he did get treated very poorly) and he was demoted. As a result, he took about a 25% pay cut. Luckily for him he stayed employed. My friend lives in a new and fairly large and somewhat expensive house in a nice city. It's just him and his wife. They have large utility bills and a fairly large house payment. He has $70k truck he purchased about 2 years ago. He has a large $40k camper he bought last year. Don't know if he has any credit card debt but I'd bet he does because they have done several European vacations over the past few years. His ego naturally took a hit with the demotion and he would like to leave. However, there's part of the problem. At his previous job, when he left it in the mid 2000s, he cashed out all his retirements and used the money to pay bills. So, he has his current retirement but only about 17 years or so of contributions to it. He can retire now based on his age (pension) but his monthly check would only be about $1500 so $18k per year PRE-TAX. He will have social security but the earliest he can collect it as far as I know is 62 yrs old. His wife does make a good living so he's got that going for him. Basically....HE'S FUCKED. He now has to work till he's 65 yrs old in order to boost his work retirement and delay taking SS so he can get more from SS as well as become eligible for Medicare. In talking to him initially, he was stressed to the max and was talking about selling stuff (smart). But, instead of selling stuff, they have decided his wife will pick up extra shifts at her job and he is exploring side income jobs to make up the difference. Between the two of them, they will be able to make up the difference. Despite the 25% income drop, he's still making good money for the area. Between him and his wife, they are well above the median income for the area. So, as far as dollars coming in, they are still in good shape even without working extra hours (if they got rid of some of their frivolous debt). The problem is, they have too many dollars going out. Too much and expensive of a house. Too expensive toys. Too much debt. The sad part is, instead of reducing costs, they have decided to work more hours. They definitely can't retire early and now have decided to work longer hours to pay for their expensive stuff and let's be honest....working long hours was easy when we were young but it's not easier as we get older. Most of us realistically will never be rich and we will not retire into a beach mansion in the FL Keys and do multiple expensive vacation trips per year. But, most of us would like to retire (or at least slow down working) as we get older. My friend mentioned above will most likely be in for a rude awakening as he gets closer to 65 years old if he doesn't change his ways and knowing him, he will probably change nothing. He and his wife have become slaves to their possessions due to excessive debt. View Quote What kind of man takes a pay cut and stays at his job? |
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Quoted: What kind of man takes a pay cut and stays at his job? View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: This is a thread similar to many that @frozenny has posted in the past. It's not my story but is a story of a friend of mine. Most people ignore financial threads. It's a shame because we may seldom or never use our stored food, ammo, and our endless power generation gadgets but we ALL need money to live. You might get your money from your job, your trust fund, welfare, or handouts from drivers passing by your spot at an intersection holding up a "need help God bless" sign. But regardless of where your income comes from, you gotta have money. And, as you get older, you will likely (most people) have less and less income and less ability to make money (we all age and it sucks). So, having retirement income streams is critical if you want to live comfortably. Also, reducing living costs will make your retirement income go longer...and potentially allow you to have more retirement "play" money. So my friend....he's about 56 yrs old. He recently had issues at work (specifics on that are not relevant but he did get treated very poorly) and he was demoted. As a result, he took about a 25% pay cut. Luckily for him he stayed employed. My friend lives in a new and fairly large and somewhat expensive house in a nice city. It's just him and his wife. They have large utility bills and a fairly large house payment. He has $70k truck he purchased about 2 years ago. He has a large $40k camper he bought last year. Don't know if he has any credit card debt but I'd bet he does because they have done several European vacations over the past few years. His ego naturally took a hit with the demotion and he would like to leave. However, there's part of the problem. At his previous job, when he left it in the mid 2000s, he cashed out all his retirements and used the money to pay bills. So, he has his current retirement but only about 17 years or so of contributions to it. He can retire now based on his age (pension) but his monthly check would only be about $1500 so $18k per year PRE-TAX. He will have social security but the earliest he can collect it as far as I know is 62 yrs old. His wife does make a good living so he's got that going for him. Basically....HE'S FUCKED. He now has to work till he's 65 yrs old in order to boost his work retirement and delay taking SS so he can get more from SS as well as become eligible for Medicare. In talking to him initially, he was stressed to the max and was talking about selling stuff (smart). But, instead of selling stuff, they have decided his wife will pick up extra shifts at her job and he is exploring side income jobs to make up the difference. Between the two of them, they will be able to make up the difference. Despite the 25% income drop, he's still making good money for the area. Between him and his wife, they are well above the median income for the area. So, as far as dollars coming in, they are still in good shape even without working extra hours (if they got rid of some of their frivolous debt). The problem is, they have too many dollars going out. Too much and expensive of a house. Too expensive toys. Too much debt. The sad part is, instead of reducing costs, they have decided to work more hours. They definitely can't retire early and now have decided to work longer hours to pay for their expensive stuff and let's be honest....working long hours was easy when we were young but it's not easier as we get older. Most of us realistically will never be rich and we will not retire into a beach mansion in the FL Keys and do multiple expensive vacation trips per year. But, most of us would like to retire (or at least slow down working) as we get older. My friend mentioned above will most likely be in for a rude awakening as he gets closer to 65 years old if he doesn't change his ways and knowing him, he will probably change nothing. He and his wife have become slaves to their possessions due to excessive debt. What kind of man takes a pay cut and stays at his job? Someone desperate. |
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Quoted: What kind of man takes a pay cut and stays at his job? View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: This is a thread similar to many that @frozenny has posted in the past. It's not my story but is a story of a friend of mine. Most people ignore financial threads. It's a shame because we may seldom or never use our stored food, ammo, and our endless power generation gadgets but we ALL need money to live. You might get your money from your job, your trust fund, welfare, or handouts from drivers passing by your spot at an intersection holding up a "need help God bless" sign. But regardless of where your income comes from, you gotta have money. And, as you get older, you will likely (most people) have less and less income and less ability to make money (we all age and it sucks). So, having retirement income streams is critical if you want to live comfortably. Also, reducing living costs will make your retirement income go longer...and potentially allow you to have more retirement "play" money. So my friend....he's about 56 yrs old. He recently had issues at work (specifics on that are not relevant but he did get treated very poorly) and he was demoted. As a result, he took about a 25% pay cut. Luckily for him he stayed employed. My friend lives in a new and fairly large and somewhat expensive house in a nice city. It's just him and his wife. They have large utility bills and a fairly large house payment. He has $70k truck he purchased about 2 years ago. He has a large $40k camper he bought last year. Don't know if he has any credit card debt but I'd bet he does because they have done several European vacations over the past few years. His ego naturally took a hit with the demotion and he would like to leave. However, there's part of the problem. At his previous job, when he left it in the mid 2000s, he cashed out all his retirements and used the money to pay bills. So, he has his current retirement but only about 17 years or so of contributions to it. He can retire now based on his age (pension) but his monthly check would only be about $1500 so $18k per year PRE-TAX. He will have social security but the earliest he can collect it as far as I know is 62 yrs old. His wife does make a good living so he's got that going for him. Basically....HE'S FUCKED. He now has to work till he's 65 yrs old in order to boost his work retirement and delay taking SS so he can get more from SS as well as become eligible for Medicare. In talking to him initially, he was stressed to the max and was talking about selling stuff (smart). But, instead of selling stuff, they have decided his wife will pick up extra shifts at her job and he is exploring side income jobs to make up the difference. Between the two of them, they will be able to make up the difference. Despite the 25% income drop, he's still making good money for the area. Between him and his wife, they are well above the median income for the area. So, as far as dollars coming in, they are still in good shape even without working extra hours (if they got rid of some of their frivolous debt). The problem is, they have too many dollars going out. Too much and expensive of a house. Too expensive toys. Too much debt. The sad part is, instead of reducing costs, they have decided to work more hours. They definitely can't retire early and now have decided to work longer hours to pay for their expensive stuff and let's be honest....working long hours was easy when we were young but it's not easier as we get older. Most of us realistically will never be rich and we will not retire into a beach mansion in the FL Keys and do multiple expensive vacation trips per year. But, most of us would like to retire (or at least slow down working) as we get older. My friend mentioned above will most likely be in for a rude awakening as he gets closer to 65 years old if he doesn't change his ways and knowing him, he will probably change nothing. He and his wife have become slaves to their possessions due to excessive debt. What kind of man takes a pay cut and stays at his job? I have done it twice. At a previous company.... they did 10% pay cuts across the board. Honestly, for the amount of work I was doing, I was overpaid. While I didn't like it, there were no other places I could work so little for the pay, so I stayed. Almost everyone did. There was very little attrition that year. This was a tech company in the dot-com/dot-bomb fallout, and there were no jobs, and LOTS of applicants looking for work. At my current company - they announced no raises this year. Technically, that is a pay cut because due to inflation, I am making less this year than I was last year using inflation adjusted dollars. My total compensation is highly variable due to bonus/stock, which can change significantly year over year, so I am used to making 25% more one year, and 25% less the next. It is just part of the pay structure. I dont consider myself "less of a man" because I stayed, and I most certainly was not desperate. |
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Quoted: One thing that you have to prepare for that no one really does is having a major health crisis. My life was buzzing along, I had money and land, saved up and then WHAM! I got a bacterial infection in me and it did most of the damage to my heart. Struggled along for a 5 years, shedding money as I got worst. Could barely work and no one wanted to hire me when they found out. Then woke up one day and couldn't breath. Since then, 2 heart valves replaced, my heart stopped, pace maker, then bacterial re-infection, and last year I'm now in constant 100% afib(rapid heart rhythm) now I'm so tired I can't, CAN'T, work. I'm lucky if I can do light house work most days. My garden is disappearing. Everything is falling apart. I need to move again, my current house(1,300) is slowly falling apart because it's too much for me. I need a small place, like 500sqft, in or near town because what little money I get, I can't afford even 1 car. But any old small cabin like that are going from $40K to $100K that are in so-so shape or wrecks. What I'm trying to say is that with the way things are, you get something bad, your medical bills are not your only expense. My mother had to take care of me, that was one expense that was saved on. But if she hadn't been there I would have either had to hire someone or go to a rest home. And I was in my early 40s when this happened. But she was so tired that we were mostly living on take out or frozen meals. And that stuff costs good money. Then constant trips to doctors or labs, more money and time. Then a car breaks down and need a rental, more $$$. A lot of stuff that you did before, you now are paying someone else to do, snow removal, grass cutting. Bottom line is that if you get really sick, the money flows even faster than you would think. View Quote It's awful you've had to go through that Sounds like you have an amazing mom. |
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Seems the common theme is
1. Start early like 18 years old. 2. Don't get divorced 3. Don't get sick. |
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Quoted: Then you would be surprised the amount of companies that will gladly slash your pay 25% w/o even demoting you first. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: What kind of BS company doesn’t fire someone, but instead demotes them and slashes their pay by 25%? I don’t see this working anywhere outside of the military. If that happened to me, my new job within the company would be to sabotage them in every way I could. Then you would be surprised the amount of companies that will gladly slash your pay 25% w/o even demoting you first. Hell, I was in a management position at a car dealership once. I was parts manager. Service manager and I turned our departments around, dealer had a track record of hiring low performers and at least one thief that stole from him. Within three years we were making him money each month and reduced waste and obsolescence. He “ rewarded” us by “restructuring” our pay plans. I lost one third of my pay overnight. Took me about a month and half to sell our house, make arrangements to move and find another job. Dealer couldn’t understand why I didn’t “give the new plan a fair chance.”, His son who was trying to buy the store from his father had the balls to tell me “Stay here, within a year or two they way our business is growing you’ll be right back to where you were.” To which I replied “Sure, just so your ******* old man will cut me again! Do I look that stupid?” Last day I was there I needed to turn in my keys at the end of the day. Other son was there, in his office and as usual half in the bag. So I went in to give him those and to politely thank him though undeserved for the opportunity I had there. He looked up at me and replied “You’ll be back here in six months begging for your job back!” At this point I skidded by keys across his desk and onto the floor and said “Don’t hold your breath!” That was 1988, retired from that business in 2017 and working part time since then just to have something to do. Wonder if he’s still waiting for me to beg? |
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Quoted: Hell, I was in a management position at a car dealership once. I was parts manager. Service manager and I turned our departments around, dealer had a track record of hiring low performers and at least one thief that stole from him. Within three years we were making him money each month and reduced waste and obsolescence. He “ rewarded” us by “restructuring” our pay plans. I lost one third of my pay overnight. Took me about a month and half to sell our house, make arrangements to move and find another job. Dealer couldn’t understand why I didn’t “give the new plan a fair chance.”, His son who was trying to buy the store from his father had the balls to tell me “Stay here, within a year or two they way our business is growing you’ll be right back to where you were.” To which I replied “Sure, just so your ******* old man will cut me again! Do I look that stupid?” Last day I was there I needed to turn in my keys at the end of the day. Other son was there, in his office and as usual half in the bag. So I went in to give him those and to politely thank him though undeserved for the opportunity I had there. He looked up at me and replied “You’ll be back here in six months begging for your job back!” At this point I skidded by keys across his desk and onto the floor and said “Don’t hold your breath!” That was 1988, retired from that business in 2017 and working part time since then just to have something to do. Wonder if he’s still waiting for me to beg? View Quote I've never understood the whole concept of "You should feel blessed to serve us". Clinically I know what it is, but I'm hopeful that I will never understand the 'logic' behind it. |
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Financially, reducing expenses is more "powerful" than increasing income. You "make" 100 cents for every dollar you reduce spending. Depending on your tax rate, you only "make" about 70 cents on every additional dollar you earn.
Its all about balance. You spend enough to enjoy life now (spend at what level?) and save enough so you don't die poor. I would err on the side of dieing with more than you need, instead of less than you need. |
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Quoted: Financially, reducing expenses is more "powerful" than increasing income. You "make" 100 cents for every dollar you reduce spending. Depending on your tax rate, you only "make" about 70 cents on every additional dollar you earn. Its all about balance. You spend enough to enjoy life now (spend at what level?) and save enough so you don't die poor. I would err on the side of dieing with more than you need, instead of less than you need. View Quote There's also the part about *how* to spend the income you get. If you suddenly are unemployed, which bills do you *have* to pay? Which bills can you temporarily shift to pay only the minimum? What is your minimum subsistence level and do you know what that consists of? Do you know what your current bank balance/credit card/investment account balances are? How much cash do you have in your home stash? Do you know what last month's electric/phone/gas/etc bills were? If you don't know what your spending your money on currently, how can you control it when you're forced to? They say "knowledge is power" and in the financial arena that is certainly true. |
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Quoted: Financially, reducing expenses is more "powerful" than increasing income. You "make" 100 cents for every dollar you reduce spending. Depending on your tax rate, you only "make" about 70 cents on every additional dollar you earn. Its all about balance. You spend enough to enjoy life now (spend at what level?) and save enough so you don't die poor. I would err on the side of dieing with more than you need, instead of less than you need. View Quote I agree. And reducing expenses becomes more and more important the closer we get to retirement age. Everyone has a different way of doing that but as long as you do it, you should be ok. My friend is doing it all wrong so learn from him…or not. He doesn’t want to listen so he’s gonna learn the hard way. It’s a shame. I learned a lot of things the hard way in my younger days but as I have gotten older, I’ve started putting more effort into learning from other peoples’ mistakes. It’s less painful for me that way. |
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Quoted: There's also the part about *how* to spend the income you get. If you suddenly are unemployed, which bills do you *have* to pay? Which bills can you temporarily shift to pay only the minimum? What is your minimum subsistence level and do you know what that consists of? Do you know what your current bank balance/credit card/investment account balances are? How much cash do you have in your home stash? Do you know what last month's electric/phone/gas/etc bills were? If you don't know what your spending your money on currently, how can you control it when you're forced to? They say "knowledge is power" and in the financial arena that is certainly true. View Quote One of the things my wife and I did was to get ahead 4 months on the house payment. That way, if we get in a bind we can always hold off on making the house payment if needed. We have never needed to but it did come in handy once at the last house when the bank holding the note got shut down by the feds. It was a mess because they wouldn’t accept our payment for a month or so. But wasn’t a big deal for us and we just ended up three months ahead once the bank mess was sorted out. |
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I heard a coworker has over 900,000 in student loans. And they wanted him to pay it back at 13k a month. He doesn't make that, so did income based, which dropped him down to $400 a month. Forever, and it will be bigger than that when he dies.
I don't always feel amazing about my financial status but then I hear this kind of shit and feel just fine. |
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Quoted: I heard a coworker has over 900,000 in student loans. And they wanted him to pay it back at 13k a month. He doesn't make that, so did income based, which dropped him down to $400 a month. Forever, and it will be bigger than that when he dies. I don't always feel amazing about my financial status but then I hear this kind of shit and feel just fine. View Quote How does a person get to $900k in student loans? I calculated a pay back time of 187 years at $400 per month. |
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Quoted: How does a person get to $900k in student loans? I calculated a pay back time of 187 years at $400 per month. View Quote Expensive undergrad + phd + a spouse with the same + not paying on it when you’re young. Hypothetically. I had $250k and it took 12 years to dig out of that adventure. |
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