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Posted: 4/23/2017 9:15:11 PM EDT
So, I want to shoot multi gun and much to my surprise they have stages at 175, 200 and 300 yards. I have never shot at distance tho my rifle is very accurate, dime sized groups at 100 yards. So, twice I have been to the 300 yard range and am having trouble zeroing my rifle. What seems to happen is I make an adjustment, like two clicks (1 click is 1/4 at 100), to the right at 300 yards, but there does not seem to be any change in POI. Then suddenly there is a change, and I am chasing adjustments!
This is very frustrating to me because at 100 I am used to seeing an 1/4 change in POI for a 1 click movement. I spent some time today at the range, fired many rounds and still did not get a zero, POI is about 1" to the left of center. I finally lost the light and got tired, packed up went home and am analyzing my targets. Also, odd is that I moved to the 200 and the POI was 5" but centered, just where I would want it to be. 69SMK, 24.5 grains of H4895, an DPMS very heavy bull barrel 1-9 twist. No wind that I noticed, cool day, 55 degrees F. So, can anyone offer a suggestion? Thank you Steve R |
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Out of every 100 men, ten shouldn't even be there, eighty are just targets. Nine are the real fighters and we are lucky to have them for they make the battle. Ah, but the one...one is a Warrior, and he will bring all the others back.
-Heraclitis |
Gotta tap some sights a little after moving to get them to settle in otherwise people end up chasing them as you've said you're doing.
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The war I train for is very different, if only by a matter of degrees.
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What optic and mount?
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Independence is my happiness, and I view things as they are, without regard to place or person; my country is the world, and my religion is to do good. ~Paine
So, Which Jeff Epstein Buddy Did YOU Vote For?... Me Too! :-D USA! USA! |
Originally Posted By Madcap72:
Gotta tap some sights a little after moving to get them to settle in otherwise people end up chasing them as you've said you're doing. View Quote My procedure is to go one click past where I want to go and tap the turret firmly, then back one and tap firmly again. That usually makes clicks track to the manufacturer's spec. JPK |
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Originally Posted By VelveteenMole:
What optic and mount? View Quote That said there is more than adjustments going on at 300. There is wind that even though you don't think there is, there is. With a light bullet it moves more. When shooting 3 gun matches you don't really have time to dial anyways. You should be using the reticle and holding over. It's easy and fast with practice. Like this run. Targets from about 175-440 yards. You can see how dialing between each shot would slow you down considerably. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UfpPFryxA2M |
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http://www.teamblaster.net
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This is a older Bushnell elite 3200 4x12, I actually don't remember the mount, it is of course on a ar15, the mount does seem secure, no play that I can see.
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Out of every 100 men, ten shouldn't even be there, eighty are just targets. Nine are the real fighters and we are lucky to have them for they make the battle. Ah, but the one...one is a Warrior, and he will bring all the others back.
-Heraclitis |
I intended to zero for 300, hold low for 175 and 200. At 200 it is 5" high, at 100 4" high. Since this is a known distance and the targets are a known size I should be ok, if I can get a zero I want.
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Out of every 100 men, ten shouldn't even be there, eighty are just targets. Nine are the real fighters and we are lucky to have them for they make the battle. Ah, but the one...one is a Warrior, and he will bring all the others back.
-Heraclitis |
Originally Posted By FZ1Steve:
I intended to zero for 300, hold low for 175 and 200. At 200 it is 5" high, at 100 4" high. Since this is a known distance and the targets are a known size I should be ok, if I can get a zero I want. View Quote |
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I got it at the Costco.
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Nikon BDC scope will do the deed for you.
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USAF 1969-73
Norton AFB 1969-71, 63rd Military Airlift Wing Cam Ranh Bay RVN 1971-72, 483d Tactical Airlift Wing Dyess AFB 1972-73 |
I have a standard reticle, not a Mil dot or hash mark, so holding over or under would be difficult.
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Out of every 100 men, ten shouldn't even be there, eighty are just targets. Nine are the real fighters and we are lucky to have them for they make the battle. Ah, but the one...one is a Warrior, and he will bring all the others back.
-Heraclitis |
The above advice with a click or two past and back and a few firm taps has helped me .
If it were me , I would get my 100 yd zero. That is a zero with minimal wind effect. Now dial in about 3.5 inches high at 100 , shoot to confirm at 100 yds. That would put me on paper at 300 with no wind. Give or take a few inches. Shoot at 300 paying attention to the wind and where your group falls. Take notes on wind and how much drift your particular bullet gets pushed. To confirm your reticle is moving would be easier to see at 100 yds. I have a 24 in Dpms 1/8 heavy barrel that I zeroed at 100 and then shot 200,300,400 with the 100 yd zero on a tall target to see actual drop. |
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Originally Posted By TeeRex:
You should always zero at 100, and dial/hold up. Makes life much easier. View Quote For what the OP is doing, 25-28 yard zero/ 300 yard zeros are fine. Why hold up, especially a significant amount, if a person doesn't have to? |
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The war I train for is very different, if only by a matter of degrees.
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OP that scope is going to make multi gun hard for you not having a lower power than 4x on the bottom. Do you have a set of irons on the side of the rifle so you can hit close targets? For DMR style match it would work but 3 gun needs speed on targets from point blank to longer range.
If you want to stay in the sport look for a 1-4/6 power optics. The Vortex Strike Eagle is around $300 and is a 1-6x with a good bdc reticle for quick holds. You don't have to buy anything new yet so try the sport and see if you like it and if you do then check out that scope. As for holding over with a 100 yard zero, there is nothing wrong with that if you have a good reticle. I have held over to 1000 yards at matches from a 100 yard zero. You just need to know your reticle and data. That said the OP sounds like he has a duplex reticle and any hold is going to be tougher but he can do it with practice. |
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http://www.teamblaster.net
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Right, Duplex Reticle, forgot the term.
I do have a red dot on a 45 degree mount for the closer stuff. I am older, 61, and my eyes are just not that great any more, I really need the magnification at distance. I see the guys using 1x6 and 2x8 and one guy uses a red dot for all of it. I can't even see the metal plate at 300 yards without magnification. Thank you |
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Out of every 100 men, ten shouldn't even be there, eighty are just targets. Nine are the real fighters and we are lucky to have them for they make the battle. Ah, but the one...one is a Warrior, and he will bring all the others back.
-Heraclitis |
My trainer tought us to always turn the knob like a full (or half--a lot anyways, never just a few clicks) rotation and then back it down to where you wanted it so it doesn't get "sticky" or slip. Sounds like your problem exactly. He said all sights can have this problem, even Aimpoints, etc.
It actually makes sense because we do the same thing when tuning a guitar. |
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I recommend a box drill. At 100 yards, adjust 12 clicks up and 12 clicks left. Let off 3 rounds, aiming at bull. Then move 24 right, same 3 rds. Then down 24. Then left 24. Then up 12/left 12. This should make you a nice 6" box and show you how your scope tracks. If anything is suspect up and down, you know.
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Betcha your rings are too tight. If you get sudden jumps in setting change, that's often a cause. The scope you have should track reasonably well for 300m shooting. Sight in at 200yrds should let you hold top of target at 300 and bottom of target at 100. 300m just isn't very far.
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I suggest that you lower your powder charge .5 grains.
As far as zero is concerned I zero every AR I own at 200 yards. I use 24.5 grains of Varget w/69 grain SMK's. I have used 24.0 grains of H4895 w/69 grain SMK's. My 200 yard zero prints 1.5" to 1.75" high at 100. I need 10 one quarter minute clicks of elevation to be zeroed at 300 or Five 1/2 moa clicks. You can simply aim 7.5" high on the 300 yard target and never touch your scope adjustments. I have quality scopes, Leupold, Trijicon, Night Force, Sightron, etc. I trust my scopes and have never had to tap them in order to get them to move. |
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Originally Posted By Madcap72:
Only if a person doesn't understand sighting in for MPBR. 100 yard zeros suck and if you look at a ballistic chart it explains why a lot of people who hunt and zero at 100 yards miss. For what the OP is doing, 25-28 yard zero/ 300 yard zeros are fine. Why hold up, especially a significant amount, if a person doesn't have to? View Quote I’d always been an advocate for either a 50 or 200 yard zero. Still am to a certain degree. But, the MPBR approach has really gained my attention. Why pick a “generic” zero, when one can better dictate the specific performance they’d like to see? For OP’s application, it sounds like the target sizes are both known and consistent. Which, IMHO, makes a MPBR zero an even better option. Check it out OP. |
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OP, run a box test and even a tall target test on your optic and see how it performs....You use one aim point low on a target..tthen mark up X number of MOA(or mil) for each new "mark"... this is a tall target test...In my case 5 Moa per mark.. so you always aim at the same lower mark, then adjust up "5moa" in my case and again aim at the same lower mark..ttthen adult up another "5moa" and repeat until you reach max Moa you ewant to test.. then do the same thing for a box test except you will go "5moa" left, then "5moa" up, then "10moa" right, then "5moa" down, and finally "5moa" left to get back to the original aim point...
I went 5moa per up except for on the box, I went 20moa up... Attached File |
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I don't recall dialing more than 2 MOA at 300yds. Hold Kentucky windage.
3 choices for elevation. MPBR with what you have, remount to try correcting tracking, get something with a BDC - effect may be determined by target height. |
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Distinguished Rifleman #2223
"Technique isn't something that can be taught. It's something you find on your own." - Bunta Fujiwara |
ooops, just realized this was 3 years old.
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Hope he upgraded broke cheap scope. LOL
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The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference - They deserve a place of honor with all that is good.
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