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Posted: 9/15/2023 4:26:47 PM EDT
So decided to get into more long range, but I don't reload. Tried several different loads and discovered my rifle (Ruger American Hunter, 20" HB 1:10) liked the IMI 175. Bought a case of it.
Local range goes to 200 and I get pretty good groups. Took it out to 1000 yards and, while I got hits, not consistently. Some was wind, but the ammo wasn't performing as predicted. So I bought a Caldwell Chrono. Also had a collection of FGMM (168, 175 and 185) and fired some strings. 10 rounds for the IMI (as this is my go to round) 5 each for the others. I know this is way too few to make a really accurate prediction, but it was enough to learn some basic facts. IMI averaged 2400, which my dope predicted. Dead on in fact. HOWEVER, the SD was 58.8. From a low of 2302 to a high of 2460. That explains what I saw beyond 600Y 185 Bergers 2541 16.6 175 SMK 2522 11.8 168 SMK 2581 17.0 So I spent money so you don't have to. Within 300 the IMI is OK. It shoots a pretty consistent 3/4 MOA out to 200 in my rifle. But the SD makes it irrelevant for long range. My gun likes the 168s, but I know they don't do well beyond 600. 175s were Good. Steady 1 MOA My gun does not like the Bergers, but a 185 bullet going 2541 is nothing to sneeze at. Work investigating if you gun likes it. I may just have to bite the bullet and start reloading. Anyway. There is my data. Go forth and waste ammo no more. |
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When in the course of human events...
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168SMK don’t do to well at longer distance, past 600 though, as they are not stable through transonic but not true of all 168s. The SMK gave them all that bad rap. Try some others like the Hornady 168 eld-m. I have shot them to 1250 yards in matches.
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Make the jump, start reloading. You can load 308 ammo for probably close to half what you're paying for factory ammo, and you can make it more precisely.
Also once you have the press and accessories its a really short jump into niche cartridges that shoot better at 1000 yards than 308. |
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So some more follow up. Because why not?
Bought some of the new(to me) Centerstrike FGMM 175s and Lapua 175 Scenars and kept shooting the IMI, because I have to do something with it. 15 shots of Lapua average 2481. SD 20.7 Grouped OK. Verticle stringing. 1.5 MOA. 15 shots centerstrike average 2438 SD 18.7 Grouped about like FGMM. I honestly can't tell you the difference between the Centerstrike and the normal FGMM. I see no reason to buy it over regular FGMM which can be had for cheaper. IMI 10 shots 2491 average 28.8 SD. Grouped fine as usual at 100 Yards. It was about 10 degrees warmer but still have an average almost 100 FPS faster than before. All the same lot. Don't know what to tell you. Hyper temp sensitive maybe? The good news is the Lapua didn't shoot better than FGMM. So I won't be buying any more (I still have 35 rounds to mess with.) More data for reloaders to ignore. |
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When in the course of human events...
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Originally Posted By Rob01: 168SMK don’t do to well at longer distance, past 600 though, as they are not stable through transonic but not true of all 168s. The SMK gave them all that bad rap. Try some others like the Hornady 168 eld-m. I have shot them to 1250 yards in matches. View Quote Do the polymer tipped 168gr SMK's have the same issue as the BTHP SMK's? |
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Originally Posted By BustinCaps:
Shooting and riding snowmobiles isn’t as fun when your property is sporting a 70’s porno bush. |
No their TMK are better. It’s more their boattails that is the issue on the 168 SMK that causes the transonic stability issues.
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When in the course of human events...
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Originally Posted By Sylvan: By better do you mean they don't have the issues past 600? Or do they have the same boat tail design? View Quote Better in the TMKs don't have the 168 SMK issues. The 168 SMK is just not good for longer ranges due to that instability unless being used in something with more capacity like a 30-06 that will push it faster and keep it supersonic. Once it starts going transonic you start to see issues. |
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Thanks for sharing your findings.
You're not alone in buying bulk ammo that just didn't shoot well though. |
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"Freedom is a light for which many men have died in darkness".
George Washington "There comes a point where we are no longer drawing lines in the sand but are backed against a precipice." Orracle |
You could've already been reloading for what you have paid for ammo. Don't be afraid to buy a used press off ebay to save some money. I would also buy a used scale, powder measure and dies. You can save a lot of money. If you decide you don't like it you can send it down the road and get your money back.
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Originally Posted By 1Coyote-conquest: You could've already been reloading for what you have paid for ammo. Don't be afraid to buy a used press off ebay to save some money. I would also buy a used scale, powder measure and dies. You can save a lot of money. If you decide you don't like it you can send it down the road and get your money back. View Quote Oh, I am aware. But time and money both count. I don't compete and don't really shoot that much. |
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When in the course of human events...
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Originally Posted By Rob01: No their TMK are better. It’s more their boattails that is the issue on the 168 SMK that causes the transonic stability issues. View Quote Originally Posted By Rob01: Better in the TMKs don't have the 168 SMK issues. The 168 SMK is just not good for longer ranges due to that instability unless being used in something with more capacity like a 30-06 that will push it faster and keep it supersonic. Once it starts going transonic you start to see issues. View Quote Thanks. |
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Originally Posted By BustinCaps:
Shooting and riding snowmobiles isn’t as fun when your property is sporting a 70’s porno bush. |
Originally Posted By LoadedDrum: Thanks. View Quote Actually his post still kinda confuses me. If the only difference in the two rounds is the tip, then the TMK retains the boat tail instability issues. Its advantage is that the better BC extends to when that issue arises. But the trans sonic issue should still be there. So does the TMK fix the transonic instability or only extend the range before it shows up? |
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When in the course of human events...
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Originally Posted By Sylvan: Actually his post still kinda confuses me. If the only difference in the two rounds is the tip, then the TMK retains the boat tail instability issues. Its advantage is that the better BC extends to when that issue arises. But the trans sonic issue should still be there. So does the TMK fix the transonic instability or only extend the range before it shows up? View Quote Yes they changed the boattail so it works better than the 168 SMK in transonic. |
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Ah. Cool. I have 40 rounds of the blackhills showing up tomorrow to test.
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When in the course of human events...
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The SMK has a 13 degree boattail. The TMK is 9?
https://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2014/09/practical-thoughts-about-transonic-bullet-stability-and-accuracy/ Attached File |
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"Technique isn't something that can be taught. It's something you find on your own." - Bunta Fujiwara
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OK.
A few more tests. Lapua 175s 10 rounds. 1.5 MOA 40 SD 2574 AVG. Disappointment immeasurable on this one. Shocked at how high the SD was. FGMM Center Strike 175s NO clue whats different between this and normal FGMM 1 MOA 12 SD 2475 AVG Shoots like FGMM, just a little slower. No reason I can see to buy this over normal FGMM, which is cheaper. Blackhills 168 TMK. 10 rounds 1.25 MOA 25 SD 2638 AVG So all this to say I still get the best groups out of IMI. But the SD makes it worthless beyond 300Yards. If I look around for sales I can get FGMM for 1.25 per round. This will be my go to. 1 MOA with a very good (for factory) SD makes this the most consistent ammo for my gun. I think my gun likes slow ammo, and the IMI is the slowest. |
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When in the course of human events...
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Great, great thread.
I tried reloading about sixteen years ago, hated it and now depend on manufactured cartridges. Were the IMI 175s their “match” version of the m118 bullet, or something else? Thanks! |
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