User Panel
Posted: 1/15/2023 4:44:22 AM EDT
[Last Edit: LRShooter307]
I didn't intend for this to be a novel but do feel the information is relevant in accomplishing my intended goal: I am looking for assistance in developing a pistol regimen/schedule to improve my skills in practical pistol shooting. By practical, I mean for competition, defensive shooting, and as an LEO. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
*I am coming at this like I do with weight training. I like a defined and written regimen I can stick to so I can track my progress* Background in Shooting -Seriously got into shooting in 2015 with PRS competitions -I took a basic pistol class at my local community college in 2021 utilizing their VIRTRA simulator -In 2022 I was hired as a deputy in Wyoming and graduated from the LE academy. We shot roughly 1000 rounds in 2 weeks with professional instruction -Prior to going to the academy, I probably have shot only shot 50 rounds out of a pistol What I Shoot -Duty gun is a Glock 22 Gen 4 w/ front night sight and blacked out rear sight in a Safariland holster -Conceal carry is a Glock 17 Gen 5 w/ standard front sight and blacked out rear sight in a TREX Arms Sidecar w/ additional mag attachment Current Skill Level I am competent with a pistol and my last qualification in October 2022 was 100%, all center mass "A" zone hits -The standards can be seen here under "Wyoming Pistol Proficiency Course" --> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1HMcsHztX9f_tszkZ8pKJIbXoWYQLa8LnfJF_jB7jqUc/mobilebasic#h.cm8yun2xy75g -The target we use can be seen here --> https://th.bing.com/th/id/OIP.bOAdBdlLr-MLoaYKB0xLGgHaHa?pid=ImgDet&rs=1 HOWEVER...I recognize just because I shot 100% (which isn't saying much because the standards are pretty easy) doesn't mean I am a well-rounded shooter or even that good of a shooter. I have the basic fundamentals and the ability to appropriately apply them, but that's about it. |
|
|
[Last Edit: LRShooter307]
[#1]
continued...
Where I'd like to Improve -Speed shooting - I can shoot 5 rounds @ USPSA head box w/ G22 @ 5yds in roughly 3.25 sec w/ 100% accuracy. When I shoot faster, I tend to drop shots -Transitions - no recorded drill data -Shooting on the move - no recorded drill data / no professional instruction -20+ yard shooting - no recorded drill data -Speed Reload (slide lock) - Consistently a 1.8 sec speed reload to depressed trigger from concealed, no data for duty set up -Draw - I am consistent at 1.00 sec from concealed draw to depressed trigger, no data for duty set up *Part of the reason I don't have data on some of the places I want to improve on is because I am unsure which drill(s) would best represent that skill **I do have a shot timer and use it regularly Things I'm Contemplating -Getting a 22LR conversion for G17: Obviously it is not the same, but several articles I've read state the benefit of 22LR practice shooting paired with shooting your designated pistol caliber. This would also help my wife into shooting since she enjoys shooting my 22LR rifles -With my current financial situation, I can afford to shoot 100 rounds of 9mm a month so either one 100rd practice session or two 50rd practice sessions -Attending a local USPSA match to spectating/participating. I have experience in competition shooting (PRS and 22LR PRS style matches) and enjoyed it |
|
|
[Last Edit: LRShooter307]
[#2]
continued...
Current Practice Regimen -I try to dryfire 20 minutes, 3 - 4 times a week following this regimen (I have been doing this for roughly a year) 1. Draw - Draw pistol and present at a playing card with a depressed trigger - 3-5yrds away for 5 minutes 2. Reload - Speed reload from slide lock at playing card with a depressed trigger - 3-5yds away for 5 minutes 3. Transitions - Transition from 3 separate playing cards 1yd apart from one another with a prepped trigger (in different orders) - 3-5yds away for 5 minutes 4. Trigger work - Prepping to the wall of the trigger and breaking the shot while focusing on squeezing trigger straight back and zero front sight movement - 3-5yds away for 5 minutes -I do 1/3 of the time with the trigger completely prepped, a 1/3 of the time with my finger on the trigger w/o trigger prepped, and a 1/3 of the time "slapping" the trigger, all while attempting to squeeze trigger straight back and have zero front sight movement -When I practice trigger presses I do it how Lucas describes in his video --> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lYJk_ioERK8&t=1171s -I maybe shoot 50 rounds of live fire every 2 months...pathetic I know. With the current stage of life I'm in (single income, wife & newborn, and no provided practice ammo from the Sheriff's Office) I can't afford to spend $100+ a month on ammo or always find the time to go to the range. |
|
|
[Last Edit: LRShooter307]
[#3]
continued...
What I'm Struggling With -I've watched almost all the shooting drill YouTube videos from TREX Arms, GarandThumb, LuckyGunner, Tier1 Concealed, Humble Marksman, Bear Solutions, Warrior Poet, MilspecMojo, Modern Samuri, Dryfire Ninja, and many others to put in my repertoire. BUT...What no one talks about is how to utilize these drills in a training plan to build skill. Do I pick a drill and work on it for an entire range session? Do I choose several drills? Should I start with a cold standard, focus on a drill that will help build that cold standard skill, then do the cold standard drill at the end of the range session? I realize there are probably multiple schools of thought here but I want to know what the pros do since I'm a new to this still. I don't want to waste money or time if I can help it. Based on the information I provided (a lot, I know) please help me make some decisions on where my time, effort, and money would be best spent. -Would a 22LR trainer be beneficial? -Is 100 rounds of 9mm per month enough to see progress? -Which would be better, one 100rd practice session or two 50rd practice sessions? -How do you structure your range session / "workout" plan? -Would competition shooting be a good way to apply and test my skills/aid me in my career? -Should I change/modify my dryfire routine? What am I missing? -As a moderate shooter, what should be my main focus? -What skills in your opinion are the most important and in what order should they be mastered? -What drills do you recommend and what are their par times? Thank you in advance. If you read all of this, you're a fucking trooper and if you're in Northwest Wyoming I owe you a beer. |
|
|
[#4]
Having a structured approach is a good way to mark your improvements over time.
Documenting your drills, scores and times much like a gym log might be a good idea as well. I’ve been a big city cop for 26+ years, became a firearms instructor in 99 and shot competition off and on since 1996. I’d recommend buying Ben Stoeger’s book Practical Shooting off Amazon and continue hitting the USPSA matches. Use a shot timer for live and dry fire. I’ve always felt that shooting more frequently is far better than high volume range sessions. Some drills will help you mark where your at and what you are working on I use the Defoor hat qual 25y drill to measure my speed and accuracy cold when I show up The Bill Drill is a good LE response to threat. I’m constantly working on my visual skills and training my eyes to find a small spot on the target. Grip is key and being firm but allowing your firing hand to stay relaxed enough to be fast is a constant challenge. Look up Matt Pranka (X-ray Alpha) he’s got excellent info. He’s a GM and former Delta so both competition and “tactical “ SME. |
|
Shoot, Move, and Communicate
|
[#5]
I will check out X-Ray Alpha and Ben Stoeger's book. The Defoor drill seems like a good cold start drill. Thanks for the recommendation.
How many rounds do you usually do for a live fire session? And any input on .22LR as a trainer? |
|
|
[#6]
Sounds like you have it covered. Do what you want to do as far as drills. Don’t lose the pure joy of shooting trying to shoot all of these drills relax a little.
|
|
|
[#7]
Originally Posted By LRShooter307: I will check out X-Ray Alpha and Ben Stoeger's book. The Defoor drill seems like a good cold start drill. Thanks for the recommendation. How many rounds do you usually do for a live fire session? And any input on .22LR as a trainer? View Quote Weekly training sessions are typically 4 hours split around 50/50 pistol and carbine. Those are several hundred rounds. I try to stop in our Dept range once a week and do a quick 50 rounds on a specific skill when time allows. My training buddy is a 15 year SF guy and he’s gonna try to make GM this season in USPSA so our training will ramp up for that. Ammo availability and cost is always an issue. I try to replace as I go but not always a smart option Luckily I built a good stockpile 20 years ago when prices were better and I worked part time at a gun store teaching classes. I’ve never augmented my training with .22 so I can’t offer advice. I will stress that dry fire, the right way, will absolutely improve your skills. Most cops don’t train and don’t shoot competition... you are ahead of that curve. I’ve seen the same ego get in the way training MMA and BJJ. To quote Mike Pannone... the magic is, there is no magic. You gotta put in the work. I’ve been in several OIS and I attribute my survival to the hours and money spent. When bad shit happens... the hay better already be in the barn. Best of luck. |
|
Shoot, Move, and Communicate
|
[#8]
Originally Posted By 82ABN1: Sounds like you have it covered. Do what you want to do as far as drills. Don’t lose the pure joy of shooting trying to shoot all of these drills relax a little. View Quote That's what my wife tells me lol Part of what I enjoy is seeing my skill and proficiency improve, I just want to make sure I'm being productive in my practice. |
|
|
[#9]
I'm hoping that when I start going to local 2 gun matches and USPSA matches I'll find someone I can train with.
I did check out XRay Alpha and really enjoyed his stuff. Him and Ben are pretty damn funny and incredibly knowledgeable. I'll be watching more of their stuff and maybe in the future go to one of their classes |
|
|
[Last Edit: R_S]
[#10]
I already posted a few things in the GD related to your question. With your background it would be a good idea to try out competition, it is affordable to try a competition or two and can be a great learning experience. Go in humble.
These guys have some sound advice on proper grip, etc: How to shoot a Pistol with world champion shooter, Jerry Miculek Rob Leatham Bob Vogel on Grip Proper grip is the foundation that fast shooting is built on. And Rob's sage advice on trigger is worth reviewing carefully. As has been said, dryfire is really important. Paul Howe's 5+1 drill is great. You do 5 dryfires, then 1 livefire, then repeat. You can run the drill for 5 live rounds or an entire box of 50 and really stretch your ammo supply out while getting quality self training. In the GD I mentioned the 5x5 drill. After you do that, the Bill Drill (1&2) are outstanding. KR Training’s 3 Seconds or Less Drill is also one the drills I use for anyone interested in defensive pistol. After that you can think about The Test I really like Paul Howe's standards. Combat proven. They kept him alive. Shoot his standards first for accuracy. Then work for time. Then finish with a proper accurate rep without time pressure. Another proven low round count standard is The Old Bakersfield PD qualification. Only 10 rounds and it's better than most quals. |
|
|
[#11]
Lots of great advice already given!! My two cents is your training plan needs to be focused on your goal and that goal like any goal needs to be specific and measurable. Once you figure that out you can find drills that move the needle towards that goal.
I structure my live and dry practice much like a timed workout so the night before I pick what I’m going to do the next day be it dry or live fire with dry fire I usually do 30 minutes 4x a week and one live range session every other week with a set number of drills based on how much ammo I want to use up with at least 5 reps of each drill this usually corresponds to my dry fire work over the past two weeks. I also keep a journal of all live and dry fire times so I can see improvement and areas that need work. Keep in mind live and dry times are not going to be the same and that shouldn’t be the goal dryfire is to get you use to pushing as fast as possible. Steve Anderson literally wrote the book on dryfire and has an excellent podcast that should answer most of your questions far better then at least I can. As far as times and what to work on I think that’s entirely up to you I would just do a drill both live and dry in a time you think you can do record the results and see where you can do something sooner. Skills to work on first should be what you think you are weakest on turn that in to a strength personally strong hand/weak hand is tough for me so I’ve been spending a lot of time with it and seeing great improvement. As someone else in the profession I think competition absolutely helps improve not only your shooting and gun handling proficiency. But you’re critical thinking on the move and accuracy under stress and helps you evaluate what works and what needs work. And what shots you can confidently take and what’s going to be too risky at a given distance or time. Some have different opinions on LEOs in competitive shooting but for me it has all been positive even when I shot poorly. Hope this helps |
|
|
[#12]
Start shooting USPSA. It will show you where you suck.
|
|
|
[#13]
|
|
|
[#14]
Originally Posted By Alexk68w: Steve Anderson literally wrote the book on dryfire and has an excellent podcast that should answer most of your questions far better then at least I can. As far as times and what to work on I think that’s entirely up to you I would just do a drill both live and dry in a time you think you can do record the results and see where you can do something sooner. Skills to work on first should be what you think you are weakest on turn that in to a strength personally strong hand/weak hand is tough for me so I’ve been spending a lot of time with it and seeing great improvement. As someone else in the profession I think competition absolutely helps improve not only your shooting and gun handling proficiency. But you’re critical thinking on the move and accuracy under stress and helps you evaluate what works and what needs work. And what shots you can confidently take and what’s going to be too risky at a given distance or time. Some have different opinions on LEOs in competitive shooting but for me it has all been positive even when I shot poorly. Hope this helps View Quote Thank you for the tips. I'll check out Steve Anderson's book. I plan on getting Ben Stoeger's since I've been going through a lot of his content recently. |
|
|
[#15]
No problem. Ben’s books are great as well I personally just like the way Steve presents information on his podcast but either of those two won’t steer you wrong
|
|
|
Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!
You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.
AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types.
From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm.
Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more.
Copyright © 1996-2024 AR15.COM LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.
AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own.