Posted: 1/11/2011 11:25:16 PM EDT
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Anyone taken their Carbine Operator or Instructor course(s)...? I'm looking for a no BS assessment. I've heard some good and some bad.
ETA: ITAR / DoS etc. not an issue... I'm a US citizen. |
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Took the Carbine Op. course last year and enjoyed it. Wouldn't mind repeating it some time in the future.
Instructors were excellent, Tom A. and Joe S. Class made up of active mil., LE and civilians. A lot of emphasis on iron sights. Movers, night shooting, shoot house. |
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Thanks seaave... much appreciated...! Quoted:
Took the Carbine Op. course last year and enjoyed it. Wouldn't mind repeating it some time in the future. Instructors were excellent, Tom A. and Joe S. Class made up of active mil., LE and civilians. A lot of emphasis on iron sights. Movers, night shooting, shoot house. |
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I did the Carbine Operator course in 2005 and did a write-up on this site (archived perhaps?).
Back then, the instructor cadre was not static, you got a mix of whoever was available to teach that week. Pros: different mix of personnel teaching meant variety in what actually went on (all instructors do deviate somewhat from the course syllabus based upon skill progreesion of the students). Cons: When the same guys do it week after week, they know the course material second nature and the class can move somewhat faster. The week I went, it turns out that one of the instuctors I had (one of the Blackwater Armorers) was a "Celebrity" (at the time, no one knew of his upcoming celeb status). The other was a SWAT guy. The armorer had a USMC Force Recon background, so he was up to speed. It turns out that the armorer guy was the one indicted by the feds for running guns to the Kurd rebels in Northern Iraq. As to the instruction, it was fine, I have had courses before from Sig Arms (pistol and shotgun). You had a variety of drills (both individual and team). The worked from the basics towards more advanced stuff; zeroing, marksmanship, malfunctions, techniques for mag changes, etc. From there, it was shooting on the move, multiple targets, etc. There was also low-light and night shooting (we spent hours on this, not just a few minutes). One area that was an issue was that the ranges were at max capacity (all of them were booked. SF, Delta, Seals, DOS, Marine MEU, county sheriff's dept's were all there when I was there) and thus we would be bumped from range to range because of it. Today, they have more ranges, so that probably will not be an issue. We mostly were on Range 7 and occasionally bumped to Range 5 or Range 4. We also spent a few hours on Range 8 and the Unknown Distance Range. Lodging: We stayed in the bunkhouse on the property. You get breakfast with lodging and lunch with the course. I do NOT know if that is still the case. The food is good. It is basic cafeteria type stuff, but, it tasted good and there was plenty to go around. As for sleeping accomodations, we stayed in a four-man bunk room and used the public showers. The staff kept the place spotless with all areas kept neat and clean. My only "gripe" was that if you are using the shower (and no one else has recently) it takes some time for the hot water to get to you. Overall, I really enjoyed the experience and would like to return again. |
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Quoted:
We stayed in the bunkhouse on the property. You get breakfast with lodging and lunch with the course. I do NOT know if that is still the case. I did carbine operator last summer. Agree with your assessment of the course. You still get lunch with the course. We however had a hotel offsite, so we had to buy breakfast. Meals were serve-yourself buffet style, cost was reasonable. |
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Quoted:
Anyone taken their Carbine Operator or Instructor course(s)...? I'm looking for a no BS assessment. I've heard some good and some bad. ETA: ITAR / DoS etc. not an issue... I'm a US citizen. The instructor course is geared a bit differently than the op course. As an example, you have to shoot quals in the instructor course. The material is a little bit different because they discuss teaching more, but there's a lot of overlap. The 5-day op course is a good bread and butter carbine course that will teach you essentially everything you need to know about running a carbine. The curriculum was developed by people like Kyle Defoor, so it's solid. BW downsized quite a bit not too long ago, letting several instructors go. Jason Falla and Looey Ginez would be examples. They still have plenty of good instructors on staff...it's just more of a pot luck as to which instructor you'll get, but universally the instructor cadre today is better than it was when I first showed up at BW many moons ago. All the ones I'm aware of on staff today are competent and are teaching from a solid cirricullum (which is much improved over what I saw in my earliest trips to BW back in the early 2000's) so there's no danger of it being goofy. The facility is without question one of the nicest to be found anywhere on earth. The sheer number of options available in terms of ranges gives the instructors flexibility that lots of other instructors would give a testicle to have. Also note that instructors like Larry Vickers and Kyle Defoor (now with his own company) are teaching classes at the USTC ranges. Lodging in the bunkhouses is generally the best way to go. It's a 20 + minute drive to Chesapeake or Elizabeth City. There's plenty of food nearby...and if you decide you want a really nice meal one night you can head to Chesapeake or to the Coinjock Marina. A bit of a drive, but it's great food. |
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Thanks very much guys...! This is awesome info, and just the kind of stuff that I was hoping for. The bottom line seems to be that I won't be making a mistake by going with USTC, and that's truly good news. By the time I get there, I will have invested give or take +$5K (course fees, ammo and airfare alone are $4,300.00) and that's way too much skrilla to have blowing in the wind. Thanks again...!!! Dave. |