User Panel
Posted: 8/16/2004 8:11:18 PM EDT
Some people just pay sticker, but my family always makes the take something off the price. How do you buy vehicles?
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I pull a consumer reports new car sheet and find out what everything costs. I figure out then what I am willing to pay on top of their costs (usually $500 max) and go to buy, not to shop. If they can't do it, I give them my phone # and tell them to call me when they can do it for that. Works every time.
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Some things I have learned:
Do your homework! "Invoice" prices are B.S. You will never really know what the dealership payed for a vehicle Don't ever tell them about a trade-in vehicle until you have neg. a price for the new one. I would pay...maybe...2% over what they claim as "invoice"....and thats it (they have a business to run and I understand that). I tend to weed my way through sales people and talk to the sales manager if possible. I had two sales people give up on me when they figured I couldnt be ripped off, and sent me to talk with the sales manager. Dont be afraid to walk out. Shop around...make the dealerships compete against each other. Dealer #1 said I could get this same model for $XXXXX...what can you do? Etc...Etc...you can save yourself some good $$$ |
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I pay $100 to $300 over invoice, minus incentives, rebates and "pack" or dealer holdback.
Typically, that's a few thousand less than sticker. Takes work, but it's easy if you work dealers against each other and don't let them lead you. |
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maybe there are some car salesmen on here who wouldnt mind giving us a few tips?
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Negotiating prices is fun! That's half the fun of buying a new car.
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If they aint negotiating seriously, I walk. I deal my way or don't deal. I know what a car is worth before I go to buy, I find out what the invoice and holdabck are before I go. I understand that the dealer needs to make a profit, but I am not willing to single handedly put thier kid through college. The last time I went shopping for a car, I walked into dealer A, told him what I wanted, he took me to look at several cars that were less expensive than what I told him I wanted, and this bugged me, finally he started showing me the cars I told him I wanted to see, I find the one I want and ask him what they can do on it. He comes out and says that it is a popular model and he isn't sure they can come off of sticker price, I told him I wouldn't want to deprive anybody else of thier dreamcar so I'll go buy one somewhere where they aren't so popular, he tells me to hold on. I decided that I ould give him one more chance and tell him I want him to find whoever he needs to talk to and ask them if they will accept my offer, and that it was a one time offer that I had cash on my person and was planned on driving a new car home that day, so if they couldn't do it for what I was offering, I would leave and buy a car at one of the other dealers in town. He came back and told me that they could not quite meet my offer, I told him thank you, and left. I went across town to dealer B, told salesman exactly what I was looking for, and that if he tried showing me cars that I had not asked to see I would find another salesman, two hours later I drove home in a brand new car for less than I had offered the first dealer, for an identical car (actually it had a sunroof and the first one didn't). Thirty minutes after I get home, dealer A calls me up and tells me his boss had thought about my offer some and thinks maybe we can deal, I asked him what part of one time offer didn't he understand, and tell him I had already found an identical car for less money than that, he called me a liar, so I gave him the stock number and the name of the salesman at dealer B, then hung up.
Moral is, car dealers are trying to sell you something, but you have to make them understand that you are serious, you also have to be willing to leave without the car you just fell in love with, you have to remember that anything dealer A can sell you dealer B can sell you as well, if he doesn't have just what you are looking for ask them to get it, they will. But the main thing to remember, is never fall in love with a specific car, once the dealer sees that look in your eye, he knows you will do some stupid things to get it, including paying way to much (a couple of years ago people were paying over sticker for PT Cruisers, now they have big rebates, no car that is in current production is truely rare). |
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I have never gotten a new car. Last time I was car shpooing they didnt rallt make anything I wanted new. Im a real cheapass and will work hard to save a dollar.
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I paid $3000 less than sticker price and they threw in a new set of new BFgoodrich AT tires.
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Good words of wisdom. I went in to shop a for a car for my (then) wife a number of years ago and they did the total "hard sell" routine when I made it PERFECTLY clear that we were just in the factfinding/pricing mode. Sales guy siccing the sales manger on me who looked, dressed and acted just like a prototypical mafia type out ot "make a deal" with me. We got up and walked out. The sales guy literally CHASED us out into the street, practically groveling at our feet to "please come back". God, what a bunch of pathetic losers. All this over a FUCKING FORD ESCORT. Next car I buy will be either over the Net, or I'm going to walk in with cash and an offer. They take it or I leave for the next dealership. |
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I tell them right up front that I'm going to buy a car today and they can sell me one or the guy down the street can, doesn't make any difference to me which it is. I've already done my shopping on-line and I'm ready to buy what I want. I then set a time limit of one hour and if they exceed that and we haven't made a deal yet I'm leaving and I will not be back. I have walked when they exceeded this limit, usually with them right on my heels asking for one more minute more.
I arm myself with MSRP numbers as well as options cost on the vehicle I'm wanting to buy and Kelly Blue book numbers on anything I bring to trade. I also have reverse figured what my maximum price to pay is from what I want to spend on monthly payments, that's my maximum amount I'm going to pay for a car. No, I do not tell them what I'm willing to pay monthly. |
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When I bought my Harley, there was not too much in the way of negotiation. MSRP was the price, the extras are what we haggled about.
I will say that MSRP was much lower that most of the dealers I had already talked too. This sales guy also did not try to up sale me at all and infact talked me into some cheaper parts. I got lucky, he was young and new to the game, so I suppose honesty was still there. |
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Definitely do your homework. I use Edmunds.com to determine what is a fair price. IIRC they recommend 2-3% over the “invoice” which actually gives the dealer a few percent (holdback) and the salesman a few percent. Hey they got to make a living too.
I agree with Lightning_P38 about being willing to walk away. My wife does not like going with me to car dealers to negotiate a new car deal because she thinks I get too creepy with them. I have tried to make her understand that if you let these guys run over you, they will, in a heartbeat. Bottom line. 1) Do your homework. Know what you want and what you are willing to pay for it. 2) Be willing to walk away. If they give you any bullshit (very likely). Say thank you and leave. They don’t deserve your consideration. Walking away is the single most effective tool in cutting through the BS and getting the car you want at a fair price. |
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This is helpful: edmunds.com
Edited to add: I see others agree! Also, cars.com is cool. The best thing to do, when you've got your info straight, is to call around and ask to speak to the sales manager. Don't bother dealing with the floor sales guys, they all have to get the manager's approval on all sales anyway. Even better is to call and get the fleet manager on the phone to deal with you. Sometimes they will only talk to you if you are a credit union member or part of some other qualifying group. They are used to bottom-lining the best price right away, and often are able to give you the best deals. Enjoy! |
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I walk in, find the truck I like, figure how much I want to pay for it and give them an offer. If they say no I walk out.
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Got raped by 4 salesmen when I bought my first new truck. They had it down to an art - I was trying to cut a deal with each, and when I agreed to one part of a deal, the other settled deal was off........... Hell is not hot enough for those guys. I curse the name, Cutter Dodge in Honolulu.
My next new truck I did not even ask the price when I bought it. Uncle Mark, the dealer's finance manager, said I would have to pay 100 bucks to a salesman, and he gave me exactly what I wanted. Too bad I was not willing to listen as he could have given me some good advice. What a deal. Two year turn ins were priced higher than what I bought my truck for. |
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Take a few adults with you, a sister, brother, girl friend etc. The more people that is there the harder for the salesman to BS becaue the salesman has to sell everyone of them, that is the way to intimidate a car salesman.
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Things that have worked for me...
1. Know EXACTLY what you want (color, options, trim level, etc) and what you want to pay before you begin negotiations. 2. If at all possible don't trade in your existing vehicle. (They can confound the deal by giving you the price you want for the new car then robbing you on the trade-in.) 3. Have financing (if needed) taken care of before you begin negotiations. 4. Weed out the idiot salesman/dealers over the phone as much as possible if you live in a large metro area. 5. Visit a few dealers and be polite and straightforward about #1. Some will be jerks, toss their business card in the trash (in their site) on your way out. 6. Work the dealers/salesman that make the cut against each other without giving up names. 7. If at all possible, don't get emotional or misty-eyed about a vehicle. Even if you are giddy as a high school girl about it don't let the dealer know. I always take the attitude that if I get it fine, if not fine. Sometimes I even have myself believing it too! |
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I'm pretty much with everyone else - do the research before I get there, make an offer, take it or leave it. And they better not leave me standing there too long while they "talk."
Yes, I'm a real asshole when I go to buy a vehicle. So much so that it usually gives me a headache. Also, I have my handy amortization table. |
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Bingo +1 I do tell them not to call me at ALL unless they can do the deal and give a time limit. S.O. |
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Best way to buy a car?
Dont lie Dont be dumb If you are an asshole, you will get treated like an asshole. If you are cool, you will be treated fine (most of the time). Make a decent offer. Expect to be rejected twice. After 3 times if they are still telling you no, they cant sell it for your price. |
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No! I have a dealer license...I buy wholesale.
Skip the salesman BS. Skip the taxes. Skip the big depreciation(First 3 years). However, I have never owned a brand new car/truck. What I do find funny is everyone I know "got a good deal" on their vehicle. If everyone was getting such a smokin' deal there would be a lot less dealers around. |
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Put the bulk of your money into something that appreciates in value, then buy a vehicle as a tool.
My newest vehicle is 7 years old, I got it for the wife and kids two years ago. My truck is 10 years old, just turned 100K last week. The money I saved bought rental properties. I don't need to look cool in a new rig or try to pick up chicks. I want to retire someday. |
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What about the blue book values for used cars? Do you think that is what one should pay or should it be less? I was researching Toyotal Tundras based upon what Consumer Reports had to say about them being a good deal for a used car.
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But you aint gettin no props from yo peeps rollin in no old bucket! Yo, you gotta be gettin a new whip twice a year, dawg! Then you be gettin mad lovin from da ho's. Just kidding, I agree with you, a used vehicle is the only way to buy any car economically nowadays. My next vehicle will be a late model 300M, and I will pay less than ten thousand for it, while a new one is going over thirty thousand. |
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My next vehicle will be a 93 Wrangler. Expect 40 inch tires and a ride thats an experience, not a joy
And a bike And lots of guns. I am selling my truck. |
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The 300Ms are real nice cars fro the money. S.O. |
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Be an asshole.
Have your financing already lined up. Be an asshole. Have your insurance already lined up. Be an asshole. |
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Ive sold hundreds of cars Assholes only bring grief on themselves. Assholes get told to pound sand when they problems after they have inked up. Assholes pay plenty of a profit. Being a dick gets you no where. Being firm but polite works. If you live on the east coast, disreguard this. Be the biggest asshole you can be. |
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I have never been an asshole to anybody who didn't deserve it in my life, I am always polite to people I do business with. When buying a car, I really don't even negotiate, I listen to the spiel, I think carefully about what I am buying, take into consideration that the dealer is doing business, not running a charity to give me cars, and make an offer, before I make an offer I let the salesman know that it is the only offer I am going to make, and that it is not negotiable. I am still driving, I have been turned down (mostly because the salesman thinks they have me hooked on thier bucket, and believe I am bluffing). What burns me is when they call me later that day and get huffy when I tell them that I did just what they said and went somewhere else and try and get that deal, and was succesfull.
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I'd pay only what the REAL price is. And that price doesnt come from the dealership. Bring a good lawyer if you want - or someone who knows all about how they try to rip you off. YOU tell them, not the other way around.
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lmao You know want to know whats really funny? Best buy makes more money on your ass when you buy a big screen than a car dealer would make selling you a $20,000 car! |
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That depends....On how long the car is on the lot, dealer installed options (read RIP-OFFS) and how smart the customer is. S.O. |
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Dealerships average around $1800 profit per car
Markup on Big Screens is north of 50% Do the math |
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Mark-up and profit are not always the same. And they may make a larger % but that does not always mean more money.
S.O. |
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Of course you work on the price. Just be patient and polite. The salesman is going to be there longer than you and come back the next day, so he already knows how to be patient and polite.
You will talk about each price and he will make several trips back and forth from his boss and you. Sure it takes some time but how often do you buy a car? |
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I work for a major automobile component supplier and qualify for vendor discounts on most vehicles, GMS Discount, Ford X-plan etc. I simply get a pre-approved loan from my Credit Union and take my paperwork or PIN number to the dealer and point at the one I want. Pretty simple.
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On new cars/trucks, I take the dealors invoice from the net, figure a decent profit usually $500, then hand my card with what I want to the manager with what I will pay for what.
Typical answer is "We can't do that." My answer is "Well call me when you hit a month end and need to move a car." then walk out. I get a call at the end of the month to come pick my vehicle out. Tj |
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Good info here: Car buying tips
Yes I do negotiate, I wouldn't do it any other way. I buy newer used cars, for instance a late model SUV that has just come off of a lease with low miles and that was readily maintained. This means that the largest portion of depreciation has most likely already occurred. When I am looking around I see that dealers really try to take advantage of this by asking a price for these vehicles that is way too high. Not all of them, but some. So naturally after looking around I price things on the net using sites like Edmunds.com, KBB.com, or a pay site listed in the above link. Then I go back with a reality check to get the dealers to come down. |
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I called up my buddy who is the VW sale rep in this region. I asked him who needs a sale in his area.
Then I called that dealer and told them their VW sales rep told me to tell them to hook me up. They didnt give me what I thought was the best price they could have. I did want a hard to come by model. So I called the local VW dealer I used to work for ( Service personel are disgusted by most sales maggots, so I really couldnt call in ANY favors at all ) and asked for the ONE salesman who wasnt a dirt bag when I worked there. BINGO he was the NEW sales manager I told him what I wanted and he beat the other price by 800.00 . Drove home the wife's new car that day. 0 percent interest rate and 2000.00 under invoice. Smooth as prunes |
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It cracks me up these guys that will spend days researching, and hours dickering, only to save $200 off the final price of the vehicle. How much is your time worth anyway?
Find a price you're willing to pay and you can live with. Don't worry so much about getting to brag to your golfing buddies that you paid $2k "below sticker". |
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There are web sites that will tell you what invoice price is plus delivery charges.
There are web sites where you can find out what the hold back is on a car. The last two vehicles I offered $100 over invoice. I had to go to two dealerships each time. If the salesman said no, there was no negotiation. I left and drove to the next one. Also, do not let the dealership run a credit check if you are not financing the car (new or used). |
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What he said. The first truck I bought on my own was 6 years ago right when I got out of college. I was't all that street wise back then. I saw a truck that I like and asked them what kinda deal I could get on it. The salesman cut $3,500 off the sticker price of a $27,000 truck. I said "Deal!" I bought my toyota last year and was a little smarter and wiser that time. I got on the internet and foundout what would be a fair price for the truck. It took a lot of negotiating and hair pulling but I got the price that I wanted. It was kinda funny really, the salesman had sweat dripping off everywere and it wasn't really hot. So I asked him how long he had been selling cars and he said that he had just started his second week. I knew then that I had him by the balls. edited to say that my ex-wife sold cars so I know all the ends and outs. Even if the dealer sells a new car at a break even price, the manufacture usually has bonuses that make the sale a proffit. |
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A word to the wise: A DOC Fee is nothing but a ripoff. It was the only thing on the invoice that was pre-printed at $200. The snookered me good on that one. Luckily, I had fought hard for a good price on the truck, but I should have walked because they screwed $200 out of me. The bottom line is, not matter how good a deal you think you are getting, they have some angle figured out because that is all they have to do all day--they're like prisoners in jail working out new scams all day long.
The two worst places to buy a car: Saturn & Carmax because they won't deal. Carmax did give a friend of ours a really unbelievable trade-in price on a car she bought through them and she wasn't buying another one, just moving out of state. I was totally shocked. |
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One of my best friends is a Nissan Dealer. No haggling necessary.
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sound like a regular car dealer. While I make a decent living, there are some things I prefer to spend time on. I pay the guys who mow my grass less than I make an hour. It's an economic product I have no prob spending time on. I will work for 10 hours with my own time to save a couple hundred bucks. I LIKE spending less on a car. Think of it this way, would you drive across town to save $50.00 on a pair of jeans? Then why would you not drive across town to save $50 on a car? $50.00 is $50.00 You are taking the dealers approach. Why drive for an hour to save $50.00 Your 401K does not care whether that $50 came from a side job, or savings on a new car. In Dallas, I had a guy give me his logon to the auction sites. I found out what the cars were going for at acution. When I went to buy one, I knew what they were paying. The one I found, had been on the dealers lot for 49 days. It had about 5k miles more than I wanted, but he told me he would give it to me for the same price he would give it to a salesman, $550. over his cost. He brought out his cost sheet and showed me. I went home, and found THAT EXACT car and what it cleared auction for. HIs sheet was the exact same. I added 550, (It was a CPO) and went away happy. He was happy. I had 4% financing, and told him if he could beat it I would take that too. He gave me 3.9% My wife loves her new(used) explorer. I spent months of my own time researching and driving and deciding. It's what I like to do. I am a car guy. TXL |
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