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Posted: 8/11/2004 8:28:04 PM EDT
First you have the classic. John Browning design that became one of the most successful handguns of the 20th century. Made almost 100 years ago and still relevant. Totally reliable and completely dependable.
 Then you have the .45 made by the same people who gave rise to the expression "made like a Swiss watch." A favorite of groups like the Navy SEALs the P220 is todays .45 for those who want the features of a modern double action auto.  While you could never go wrong with either, and we all have our personal bias, which one do you think is actually the best based upon design? |
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Posted: 8/11/2004 8:31:47 PM EDT
[#1]
I prefer the 1911 because it's "design" fits my hand better, so I tend to be more accurate with it.
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Posted: 8/11/2004 8:33:15 PM EDT
[#2]
 BOTH
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Posted: 8/11/2004 8:35:14 PM EDT
[#3]
I own a P220 but not a 1911. So I am kind of biased.
I like the fact that there is no "cocked and locked" carry on the P220. No external safeties. Pull the trigger and it goes bang. Of course I am going to probably buy a 1911 eventually. It's been a long time since I've shot one. I need to try again to see if they shoot more magically than a P220. It's going to be tough to beat the Sig. 100% reliable, very accurate, nice trigger, and the grip, oh so sweet. The thing feels like it was born in my hands. But millions of 1911 owners can't be wrong. We'll see. |
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Posted: 8/11/2004 8:35:32 PM EDT
[#4]
Built like a swiss watch, yeah....but swiss watches are too complex to trust your life to.
The 1911's beauty only becomes apparent when you strip it and see how simple it is. |
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Posted: 8/11/2004 8:36:02 PM EDT
[#5]
I love teh 1911
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Posted: 8/11/2004 8:37:03 PM EDT
[#6]
Tough, but the 1911 would be my choice.
You forgot to list the best of the bunch.......HK USP.45 and Compact .45 |
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Posted: 8/11/2004 8:37:09 PM EDT
[#7]
1911 anything else is just a copy or a modified copy
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Posted: 8/11/2004 8:45:46 PM EDT
[#8]
I own 2 Sig 220's that have combined over 5,000 rounds without one single failure, of any kind whatsoever, and god knows I feed them some questionable ammo. I also have a Kimber Gold Match & a Springfield Armory loaded 1911, both of which while generally dependable, have had issues. Both required some amount of shooting to smooth out and even now the Kimber won't eat certain ammo that the Sig will. Draw your own conclusions about "trust your life to". |
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Posted: 8/11/2004 8:46:22 PM EDT
[#9]
If you are suggesting that you cannot trust your life to a Sig P220 then you have just invalidated your own credibility. These are probably the #1 and #2 best handgun designs in the world. |
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Posted: 8/11/2004 8:47:50 PM EDT
[#10]
It is well known I am a HK junkie and I love USPs. That said I think the HK would be a #3 candidate at best. |
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Posted: 8/11/2004 8:49:26 PM EDT
[#11]
No, no....I was mainly making a rhetorical statement, primarily in defense of my position that the 1911 is a superior design. I'll give SIG this.....they execute the design perfectly every time, which can't be said for ANY gun that is produced by dozens of firms around the world. I just don't like DA autos. Truth be known, based on my preference for SA autos, and my personal experince with 1911's.... If I had to pick up a pistol off the shelf, load it, and go to a fight with it.....I'd take a browning hi-power. |
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Posted: 8/11/2004 8:49:56 PM EDT
[#12]
By Design, the 1911 is a superior combat weapon. Same trigger pull every time.
By execution, the Sig P220 is a better made, more reliable gun than most out of the box 1911s. Sorry ARownerAgain, If I'd have seen your post before I did mine, I'd have saved my breath. |
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Posted: 8/11/2004 8:58:30 PM EDT
[#13]
the 1911 is the most overrated firearm of all time.
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Posted: 8/11/2004 8:59:10 PM EDT
[#14]
the 1911 is pretty much the easiest handgun for anyone to shoot well.
If you gave a person who never shot a gun a 1911 and told them how to line up the sights, they would probably be able to hit a sillhouette target at 15 or even 25 yards close to center of mass. If you gave the same person a sig P220 with the hammer decocked, they would have a much harder time hitting the target. They are both great designs, but there is a reason that a gun thats close to 100 years old is still the most popular. |
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Posted: 8/11/2004 9:00:12 PM EDT
[#15]
Yeah, what he said |
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Posted: 8/11/2004 9:01:08 PM EDT
[#16]
So, did that fall under "great minds think alike" or "when we all think alike, nobody thinks very much"?
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Posted: 8/11/2004 9:01:20 PM EDT
[#17]
That is the stupidest thing I've ever read. I'm sure the accuracy would improve by the second shot. And I suppose if I gave the same idiot a 1911 decocked he'd never get a round off.  |
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Posted: 8/11/2004 9:03:54 PM EDT
[#18]
I am fan of manual safeties and single action triggers, so my vote goes to the 1911. The Sig is a very nice pistol, though.
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Posted: 8/11/2004 9:05:51 PM EDT
[#19]
'nother thing I like about SA-only autos.....
I grew up shooting bolt guns, off the bench. I appreciate good triggers. I will always think that a good trigger is the single most important piece of the shootability puzzle. I have never seen a DA auto that had a really great SA trigger. Fair, yeah, good, a few, but great...none. Good trigger: good hits Great trigger: great hits, under more circumstances, in less time. A pistol needs four things: 1) enough power to stop the fight. 2) reliability, to deliver the power 3) good sights 4) good trigger The first 3 are moot between the 2 designs in question. The 1911 has the better trigger. |
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Posted: 8/11/2004 9:37:50 PM EDT
[#20]
sniff.. sniff.. ?? umm, What's that smell? Your post is reminiscent of (  ) Liberal Media Bias() methinks....  You post a pic of a Colt dug out of a trench, and then the sig that could have been produced last week. To be fair, please replace said Colt with a Kimber or Les Baer Custom, hmmm.... Old School vote here goes for the 1911, but I'd still love to have, and certainly must have, a few of those Sig's. |
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Posted: 8/11/2004 9:45:09 PM EDT
[#21]
Negative, all the Colt pics were 1991 A1s and I wanted the classic. Take your bias walking. 
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Posted: 8/11/2004 9:49:48 PM EDT
[#22]
Does this question rule out all aftermarket 1911 mods then? Are we confined to the crappy sights in the first picture?
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Posted: 8/11/2004 9:52:18 PM EDT
[#23]
I think you're on tosomething there, and have phrased the pros of each weapon nicely. I neither own nor have fired either a 1911 or P220, so take my opinion with a grain of salt... I think both the 1911 and the P220 are excellent weapons, and I plan on owning both at some point. However, if the 1911 is the end-all be-all of pistol design, then why do folks put so much time and energy into making them work 'better?' Triggers, hammers, grip safeties, smith work, etc etc... |
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Posted: 8/11/2004 9:55:57 PM EDT
[#24]
 
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Posted: 8/11/2004 9:56:19 PM EDT
[#25]
I think the comparison is completely fair. The photos compare a base model 1911 to a base model P220. Comparing a semi-custom 1911 from Les Bauer to a box stock P220 is hardly fair IMO. |
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Posted: 8/11/2004 9:57:16 PM EDT
[#26]
Because it's more profitable to put out a 'good enough for the masses' gun than it is to put out a 'perfect' gun. Strictly within the context of manufacturability, the SIG is a better design. |
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Posted: 8/11/2004 10:02:26 PM EDT
[#27]
I think the comparison would be entirely fair if a Springfield Loaded model (their standard model) was used, or something like that. The question should be based upon the form the pistol is usually found in. A Sig is usually found as a stock pistol, maybe with grips or night sights. The 1911 is usually found as a 'production custom' gun - upgraded sights, grip safety, flared ejection port, flat MSH, perhaps checkering, slanted or forward slide serrations, perhaps upgraded hammer, usually upgraded trigger, sometimes FLGR, etc. It's more fair to compare the Sig to the common 'modern' 1911. |
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Posted: 8/11/2004 10:02:34 PM EDT
[#28]
*wipes away a tear*
My first pistol was a 1911. Can't beat it.... simple, effective.... mine isn't picky about ammo.... its my baby. - BUCC_Guy EDIT: My old man even gave me the grips off his first 1911. They are still on mine. |
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Posted: 8/11/2004 10:03:16 PM EDT
[#29]
if I could only have one I think I would take the SIG 220, because it is a 3rd generation handgun that is reliable right out of the box, no modifications necessary and they can shoot all kinds of loads, no need to lower the ejection port, no need to polish the feed ramp, etc. the SIG 220 would be a good choice.
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Posted: 8/11/2004 10:06:24 PM EDT
[#30]
When I was a kid watching all the WWII movies with John Wayne and others the Hero always carried a 1911. The 1911 was the first gun I ever shot, at age 5. As I was growing up that is the only gun I ever wanted. When I joined the Navy was ecstatic that I was able to stand watch with a 1911. On my submarine, one of the chiefs was an avid collector of gun, he has/d over 2000 guns. Before one of our quals he asked around what people would like to shoot, and you could chose from this list/inventory he had.
At that time, I wanted to try out all the Soviet Block type weapons I could get my hands on. So any way he brought over 100 handguns and 40 rifles. All of the Soviet Block type weapons were reliable but there was no craftsman ship what so ever. In voicing this to the chief, he points me to the SIGs, a P220, P226, P228, and a P210. Of course the .45 was first up to bat. From that first shot I was hooked on SIGs. My choice in round is 9MM now but I love the SIGs and have never owned a 1911. That day the chief personally sold (told orders on) several guns, he was an FFL as well. His orders where for 16 SIGs, 2 Hi powers, 3 S&W, 6 92 Barettas, and 1 1911. He sold some rifles as well but I did not get that list from him. At the end of the year, many people were trading theirs in for a SIG. This spoke volumes to me. This was a year or two before Glock came on the scene, early ‘89-90 time frame. But I really think that this goes to the line about be weary of the man with one gun. Go with what you know. Ilike9s |
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Posted: 8/11/2004 10:07:54 PM EDT
[#31]
2 things... 1. Sierra_hombre is the biggest dipshit of all time. 2. Napalm's comparison of "a base model 1911" and a Base model sig are two different things, the day you show me a 100 year old sig that still functions/shoots like its new is the day i'll pick it over a 1911....show me a base model 1911 that was built a year ago and a sig of the same date and i'll decide. AK |
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Posted: 8/11/2004 10:09:23 PM EDT
[#32]
I perfer the 1911 design over the Sig. I am always more accurate with any 1911 that I have ever shot than any other handgun that I have ever shot.
I do like the Sig. It is a quality weapon, but my personal preference is for the single action trigger pull of the Government Model. |
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Posted: 8/11/2004 10:29:14 PM EDT
[#33]
I thought that the 1911 was a relatively complex design with lots of moving parts compared to a "modern" design. |
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Posted: 8/11/2004 10:32:58 PM EDT
[#34]
Tear one apart sometime. There are pistols with fewer moving parts, and there are guns with more complex mechanisms....the 1911 is the ideal balance of the 2. Few enough parts to be robust, but well-designed to the point that crisp tiggers are possible. |
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Posted: 8/11/2004 10:42:00 PM EDT
[#35]
No, just don't wanna get too far away from the original. No DAs or high caps. |
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Posted: 8/11/2004 10:44:11 PM EDT
[#36]
When you strip it, you end up with: Guide rod Bushing Barrel Slide Slide stop Recoil spring Frame/assembly I don't think it's very complex. More complex than a Glock, but it's a pretty basic (and logical) design. |
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Posted: 8/11/2004 10:44:13 PM EDT
[#37]
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Posted: 8/11/2004 10:47:42 PM EDT
[#38]
Jeeze it doesn't have to be EXACTLY the one in the picture. We are comparing base model 1911s (NEW) to base model P220s (NEW). You can't be this stupid. |
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Posted: 8/11/2004 10:48:19 PM EDT
[#39]
More parts than my SIG.
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Posted: 8/11/2004 10:51:48 PM EDT
[#40]
That was my point. 
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Posted: 8/11/2004 10:59:23 PM EDT
[#41]
Just curious, but, When was the 1911 designed? Has it been modified since then. When was the P220 designed? Has it been modified since then. |
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Posted: 8/11/2004 11:02:17 PM EDT
[#42]
I was backing you up.
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Posted: 8/12/2004 12:19:48 AM EDT
[#43]
The Sig P220 has gone through a few very slight changes from its' initial offering. The differences between the standard "folded steel" P220 you can buy today versus when it was originally released are:
1. American thumb area maga release (originall was Eauropean heel relese) 2. Beefed up rails on the frame 3. Rounded hammer that pulls away from firing pin (earlier models had pointy hammer that would rest on firing pin when hammer is let down with thumb) 4. shallower and longer feed ramp angle and wider throating on barrel 5. Beefed up locking insert and takedown lever 6. Dovetailed and taller front sight (early models had front sight milled onto slide) plus taller rear. 7. Plastic hammer spring base (earlier models had captive spring on hammer strut) 8. Very slight cosmetic and dimensional differences in frame, slide milling, and grip design. This list does not count the new Stainless milled model P220. I have both a very early heel release model and a much newer 2 tone model. I can say all that changes were so slight that I can interchange the slides between the 15 year different models and they still work and shoot perfectly. Yes I have had two 1911's and although I loved shooting them at the range, they were not reliable (Box stock Colt and SA) nor as accurate as the Sigs. Here's one of my babies:  One thing I really like is being able to reverse the mag release even though I shoot right handed. My thumb wont reach so I use my index finger. Oh yeah, the single action drop (especially on the older Sig) is as good or better than all the "stock" 1911 triggers I have tried at the local Sportsman's Warehouse. So saying 1911 triggers are better is not necessarily true. |
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Posted: 8/12/2004 12:26:44 AM EDT
[#44]
I prefer the Sig over the 1911.
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Posted: 8/12/2004 12:51:41 AM EDT
[#45]
The 1911 is far more durable in the long run, and has a lower bore axis and is more ergonomic for me.
That said, the P220 is a fine pistol I have depended on in the past and would again without hesitation. |
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Posted: 8/12/2004 1:26:07 AM EDT
[#46]
GLOCK 30
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Posted: 8/12/2004 2:15:50 AM EDT
[#47]
1911. Designed by an American, in America for Americans. 'Nuff said.
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Posted: 8/12/2004 2:29:16 AM EDT
[#48]
Get my point? |
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Posted: 8/12/2004 2:51:47 AM EDT
[#49]
+1 |
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Posted: 8/12/2004 3:14:45 AM EDT
[#50]
I have both and love them both but the 1911 is the one...
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