This occurred last Sunday at Markham Park Target Range.

At around 4:00 pm we had just gone cold for a target change. I was walking the line when a patron who had just left came running into the bullpen screaming that 'someone is assaulting the cashier in the parking lot with a gun!'

I was one of five RO's on duty that afternoon.  Here's what happened.

The cashier went out the front door to throw some trash in the dumpster.  In the parking lot he noticed a guy and his girlfriend.  The guy had a pistol out and was doing some 'draw from the holster' bullstuff next to his vehicle.

There are eleven signs in the parking lot stating 'no loaded firearms' and any uncased guns must be kept action open, mags out, and muzzle elevated.  The cashier called out to the (sic) gentleman to either "case up the gun or point it in a safe direction."

The girlfriend opened her mouth (that always makes things better) and told the cashier to go fuck himself, he couldn't tell them what to do.

At this point, the guy's dickhead drive engaged, and he charged across the parking lot, jammed the gun in the cashier's face, and the girlfriend told the cashier, "it's loaded, bitch !"

The guy with the gun told the cashier he was "gonna fuck you up, what're ya gonna do ?"

At this poiint, the other customer in the parking lot ran in and told us what was going on.

I came out into the parking lot as the guy was retreating to his vehicle.  He had the gun (a Beretta 92) in his hand.  When he saw myself and the other red-shirt exit the building, he moved to the door of his truck and tossed the gun inside.

I asked the guy if he threatened the clerk.  The other RO moved behind the truck to write down the tag number.  At this point, a park ranger came driving down the road with lights flashing.

The guy and his girlfriend took off in the truck, only to be pulled over by the incoming Sunrise PD in front of the Trap & Skeet building down the road.  They had the two numb-nut rednecks out and on the ground when the clerk and I got there.  Within minutes, the park manager and a rangemaster were there as well.

HERE"S WHERE SUNRISE PD MAKE THEMSELVES LOOK LIKE COMPLETE FUQTARDS...

The two responding officers listen to the clerks story, then search the truck.  They find the pistol, with a mag in the gun, but no ammo.

"Oh, well,"  the cop tells us.  "No crime, the gun wasn't loaded."

There isn't a font bold enough to emphasize how loud I frigging screamed "WHAT !?!?" in this cop's face.

The cop explained to me that a gun has to be loaded in order for it to be a firearm offense.

"Get a fuqquing patrol sergeant out here, now !" I tell the guy, who gets in my face and tells me to back off.

A patrol segeant (female) shows up, and she tells me there's no crime these guys can be charged with.  The clerk would have to PERSONALLY WATCH THE GUY LOAD THE MAG AND PUT IT IN THE GUN, she tells me, for it to be a "threat with a firearm".

The rangemaster and I are in shock at this point.  The RM rightfully points out that the guy told the clerk the gun was loaded, and in Florida that's all it takes to make it a felony firearm offense.  You actually don't even need to have a real GUN, you just have to tell the victim you HAVE a gun.  This guy shoved a gun in the clerk's face and told everyone within earshot it was loaded, that makes it a 'reasonable assumtion' that the gun threat was legitimate.

The little copchick tells him"don't tell me how to do my job"

I tell her "someone needs to."

Then I ask her if she pulled me over in a traffic stop and I jumped from the vehicle, pointed a gun at her, and said "it's loaded, bitch", and "I'm gonna fuck you up."  was she gonna rationalise that since she didn't personally see me load the magazine and put it in the gun, I wasn't breaking the law by pointing at at her ?

She goes ballistic, telling me "don't get nasty, sir," and then comes the kicker:  She says "that's different, I'm a cop.  A person can't threaten me."

We argued with these guys for almost an hour before they'd even FILL OUT A REPORT.  They charged the kid with "threatening violence" or some other bullshit.  They released him ROR, and didn't even take the gun!!!

They said IF the state att'y talks to the witnesses in the parking lot, then they MIGHT upgrade the charges.

SUNRISE PD, WTF???  Are you guys really that dumb ???  I've talked to BSO and Ft. LAuderdale cops about this and they are flabbergasted.  All it takes is a REASONABLE ASSUMPTION that the guy had a loaded gun.

By the way:  The kid had a PBA sticker on his truck and said something about his dad being a cop....

I know the range staff gets a lot of guff from some of these guys on ARFCOM, but this is a totally different matter.  The park management isn't really backing anyone up on this.  If some goblin was down at the aquatic complex and threatened a lifeguard with a gun, you can bet a SWAT team would've been called out and the kid would've gone away in handcuffs, if not a body bag.

The clerk is gonna file a complaint with the SUNRISE PD, as am I.  This is re-goddamned-diculous !!!

YOU'VE GOT TO BE KIDDING ME!!!  

This story makes me mad!

Far too many LEO's are border-line morons.

File a complaint, the JBTs were wrong.

784.011  Assault.-- (1)  An "assault" is an intentional, unlawful threat by word or act to do violence to the person of another, coupled with an apparent ability to do so, and doing some act which creates a well-founded fear in such other person that such violence is imminent. (2)  Whoever commits an assault shall be guilty of a misdemeanor of the second degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 or s. 775.083.

784.021  Aggravated assault.-- (1)  An "aggravated assault" is an assault: (a)  With a deadly weapon without intent to kill; or (b)  With an intent to commit a felony. (2)  Whoever commits an aggravated assault shall be guilty of a felony of the third degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084.

Are RSOs at markham allowed to be armed?

ETA:  If the cashier wants to, they should go down to the SA with witness names and the other info themselves.

I live in sunrise, and I've seen the sunrise police in action.
They must have received their training from the same people who train the guys who work for McDonalds. They have to be the dumbest cops in all of Florida.


I don't like going to the range at markham for the same reason....

The people who run that range were trained by the same people who trained the sunrise cops!
I've seen the range go hot while there were people still coming back from checking their target.
Also, what's with the bullshit rules that they seem to be making up on a whim?
I even heard that they don't allow NFA items like silencers. When I asked why not, they don't even have a reason.......Bunch of idiots.....

Thanks.  I'm one of 'those idiots at the range'.

Just to clear a few things up...

We are not allowed to be armed.

We are not allowed to wear body armor.

We deal on an everyday basis with gun-show griswolds who point LOADED guns at us.

If everyone was as safe as the HIGHLY_TRAINED and skilled ARFCOM members it wouldn't be a problem.  We have hundreds of people show up day after day with guns they can't even load or unload.  Not isolated incidents, there are people who are for all intents and purposes retarded when it comes to gun safety.

Quoted: They said IF the state att'y talks to the witnesses in the parking lot, then they MIGHT upgrade the charges.

Yup, your best bet at this time is to talk to the States Attorney yourself AND get every witness to talk to them also. Don't wait for the S.A. to call you. Go in person immediately. The S.A. can upgrade the charges, but don't be surprised if they don't. I arrested a probable rapist knocking on a single girls door at 3am because 1. he was prowling, and 2. he had a .380 semi auto pistol inside the front of his waistline (behind a large belt buckle). The gun was unloaded (empty magazine) and because of that, the State Attorney would not try to prosecute him for CCF. (he had no CW permit). The S.A. said it wasn't a deadly weapon because it wasn't loaded. They also let him out of jail with time served for the prowling charge.

The bonehead LEO's could have, and probably should have, made a felony arrest (aggravated assault) and let the S.A. drop the charge to a misdemeanor if they wanted. I would have put at least the guy in jail that night! The elements were there, the threat to do bodily harm, the display of a firearm (who really knows if it's loaded or not? Let's see. . . . where have I heard this before. . . . . "ALL GUNS ARE LOADED UNLESS VERIFIED EMPTY"), the victim was in fear, and there were plenty of witnesses. I would even be concerned that there was a probablilty of continued violence that night if an arrest wasn't made.

But then, maybe I'm just a JBT.  

just

what bullshit. what ever happened to 10-20-life???
www.dc.state.fl.us/oth/10-20-life/index.html
"Mandates a minimum 10 year prison term for certain felonies, or attempted felonies in which the offender possesses a firearm or destructive device"

Quoted: Thanks.  I'm one of 'those idiots at the range'. If everyone was as safe as the HIGHLY_TRAINED and skilled ARFCOM members it wouldn't be a problem.   Our R.O.'s are trained by the NRA.  In addition, we (the guys on the line) have NO say in the rules we are given.  If you think even one person who works at the range was consulted over all the new 'rules' then you are mistaken. Range staff were told their opinion and expertise was not needed nor required. Don't blame the staff at Markham for all the Hard-assed rules. And the long waits to get in at the range are due to limited capacity brought on by the 8-to-1 shooter to range officer ratio.  The range is hard-pressed to come up with 5 range officers on the weekends because full-time range officers make $21,000 a year.  Part-time range officers make about $150 a week.

I guess I nailed that right!
So, let me get this straight.....You didn't like it when the police didn't arrest the guy who "threatened" someone at the range. But yet they were following their rules.....
Now you may think that those rules were unreasonable. But it was their rules.......

Maybe they were making them up as they were going? Maybe they interpreted them differently?

How does that feel?

They are probably underpaid and therefore not as bright as the guy who cuts your lawn. So that's probably a good excuse for all their mistakes......

So next time you need the sunrise police, don't expect much from them. They have to go by their rules, and are not much smarter than a bottle of Windex.

Quoted: I'm speechless though not surprised.

me too.

I know firsthand from personal experience that you can in fact be charged with aggrevated assault for even pointing a TOY gun at someone.  The law is all about the perception of the "victim" and has nothing to do with the actual ability for the perpetrator to follow through with the perceived threat.

Another reason to ALWAYS be armed -- Do they search you guys?  If not carry ...  

Chances were they got "special" treatment because of that PBA badge ...  Im sure the cops knew what they were doing -- if the people were black and low income they would still be in jail ...

Quoted: Quoted: Thanks.  I'm one of 'those idiots at the range'. If everyone was as safe as the HIGHLY_TRAINED and skilled ARFCOM members it wouldn't be a problem.   Our R.O.'s are trained by the NRA.  In addition, we (the guys on the line) have NO say in the rules we are given.  If you think even one person who works at the range was consulted over all the new 'rules' then you are mistaken. Range staff were told their opinion and expertise was not needed nor required. Don't blame the staff at Markham for all the Hard-assed rules. And the long waits to get in at the range are due to limited capacity brought on by the 8-to-1 shooter to range officer ratio.  The range is hard-pressed to come up with 5 range officers on the weekends because full-time range officers make $21,000 a year.  Part-time range officers make about $150 a week. I guess I nailed that right! So, let me get this straight.....You didn't like it when the police didn't arrest the guy who "threatened" someone at the range. But yet they were following their rules..... Now you may think that those rules were unreasonable. But it was their rules....... Maybe they were making them up as they were going? Maybe they interpreted them differently? How does that feel? They are probably underpaid and therefore not as bright as the guy who cuts your lawn. So that's probably a good excuse for all their mistakes...... So next time you need the sunrise police, don't expect much from them. They have to go by their rules, and are not much smarter than a bottle of Windex.

Anyone else understand a word of this?  THEIR rules?  Are you that dense?  THEIR RULES would be the LAW genius.  Which it has already been pointed out they were NOT following.

Please update us, this story is absolutely insane.  Had your clerk had a CCW and been carrying he would have been well within his rights to shoot this fuqwad dead.  Yet no crime took place?  What a crock.

Wow, have you called anyone at Sunrise PD to file a complaint?

As was pointed out, had the clerk been armed, he could have shot him and it would have been justified, but when the cops analyze the situation and see that the gun wasn't loaded, its suddenly not a crime?

This is BS.  Someone should get fired for this.  Did you get any badge numbers or names?

If you don't have the names of the officers responding, BSO dispatch has it in record.  Plus there is a report made with the names of the parties involved.

Quoted: Part-time range officers make about $150 a week.  Does anyone out there want to have guns pointed at them by fucktards all day long for that kind of pay ?

I'm an RO at my range and we work for FREE. Assholes like you had to deal with are told that they are now trespassing. If they choose to stay after the warning, they will be arrested.

I give them 3 choices of vehicles to leave in: Their own, the County's, or an ambulance if they dare to think they will draw on me.

Our RO's are allowed to be armed and it is stated in writing. Florida law allows you to be armed in any place you have a legal right to be (CCW laws pertaining)- In your shoes, I think I would be discreetly armed henceforth.

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Quoted: Our RO's are allowed to be armed and it is stated in writing. Florida law allows you to be armed in any place you have a legal right to be (CCW laws pertaining)- In your shoes, I think I would be discreetly armed henceforth.

Yes, but company regulations are a whole other ball game.  Sure the state may allow it, but his employer may not and he might get fired for it.  There was a case a while back where some delivery guy for Pizza Hut shot a man to death.  He was subsequently fired because company regulations do not allow them to carry weapons.

Hell, where I work they don't allow us to keep guns in our cars!

Well, complaints are being filed against the specific officers this week.  BSO and other local PD personell have all been consulted with(We run into them a lot at the range).

Sunrise PD had jurisdiction over the park, so that's who responded.  I'm not too thrilled with how they handled the situation, to say the least.  PArk Administration has now stated that WE(Range STAFF) shouldn't be 'worrying' about unsafe gun handling in the parking lot.

Well, there are ELEVEN signs in the parking lot/range complex stating "no loaded firearms".  If I see some doofus fucking around with a gun (and the other posters are right, there is no such thing as an 'unloaded gun') and I don't say anything, and then there's an accident, you know what's gonna happen.  It's gonna be on MY head for letting some idiot wave the damn gun around in the first place.

We've never had an AD at the park that resulted in an injury or death, thank god.  We've had more then a few handloaders do a '1-second tactical field-strip' of their firearms, and a few 'scope tube plastic surgery' victims, but never a gunshot wound or a death...thank god.

We can't carry guns.  We can't bring firearms to the range.  BROWARD COUNTY has a 'violence-free workplace' policy that forbids weapons of any kind being carried by county employees at any time on the job--EVEN AT A GUN RANGE.

Don't forget Jenne.

Honorable sheriff Ken Jenne has NO (wink wink) say in anything going on at the range(wink wink)

That's why the new rifle racks are sized to fit MP-5's.....

unbelievable.  that is completely fucking outrageous.  

Idiots!  I would definitely pursue that, go to the PD and demand to see the Chief.

Quoted: unbelievable.  that is completely fucking outrageous.

+1

If those cops knowlege of the law was as laser precise as their last speed trap probably was, that douchebag would have ended up where he should have ended up.

Unreal...nice example they set so that fucktard has no reason to feel he cant wave his pitol around again.

The douche should have been arrested ON THE SPOT.

This is why I am moving to Texas...

Face it...the range will be open to the public unitl someone gets shot...then the city will close it down.

I don't agree that that the RO's should be able to carry...then we have more people with guns outside of the range doors and remeber folks this is a public park.
But the nature of the range being out in BFE makes us feel like it is just a park.

The fact that a LEO range was opened to the public because they can charge 8.00 for access to a open field will in the end be trumped when someone gets hurt.

Face it...people down here are dumb...

Quoted: This is why I am moving to Texas... ...snip

You and me both.  It's actually quite sad.

Today the clerk who was threatened went to the Sunrise PD to file a complaint.  Hehad with him the case number from the original incendent and a list of the statutes from the florida code (Thanks ARFCOMMERS) that were broken in the first place.

Guess what ?  The desk sergeant ran the case number that the clerk was given by the responding officers and no file came up !  The clerk was told that "The report has not been filed yet--check back in a few days"

This happend on Sunday JULY 30TH and today is August 8th--and it hasn't been filed yet ?

WTF ???

More is going on here then meets they eye....cover-up is my bet...

Dale Gribble where are you when we need you ?

That line gets thinner everyday.

yelp -- COVER UP -- Guy was related to a LEO ...

Quoted: Today the clerk who was threatened went to the Sunrise PD to file a complaint.  Hehad with him the case number from the original incendent and a list of the statutes from the florida code (Thanks ARFCOMMERS) that were broken in the first place. Guess what ?  The desk sergeant ran the case number that the clerk was given by the responding officers and no file came up !  The clerk was told that "The report has not been filed yet--check back in a few days" This happend on Sunday JULY 30TH and today is August 8th--and it hasn't been filed yet ? WTF ??? More is going on here then meets they eye....cover-up is my bet... Dale Gribble where are you when we need you ?

Go back and ask for the stations captain ...

Quoted: Today the clerk who was threatened went to the Sunrise PD to file a complaint.  Hehad with him the case number from the original incendent and a list of the statutes from the florida code (Thanks ARFCOMMERS) that were broken in the first place. Guess what ?  The desk sergeant ran the case number that the clerk was given by the responding officers and no file came up !  The clerk was told that "The report has not been filed yet--check back in a few days" This happend on Sunday JULY 30TH and today is August 8th--and it hasn't been filed yet ? WTF ??? More is going on here then meets they eye....cover-up is my bet... Dale Gribble where are you when we need you ?

No cover up, bet the cop was just lazy and did not write a report. He probably issued a case number and coded the call out as no report taken, figuring the victim would not follow up on it.....a big no-no. He needs to go back in and inquire as why no report was made when he requested one, and drop the name of the Sgt. that was on scene too.

Threaten to take it to the news

Maybe ARFCOM needs another email drive, like with that jackass Parks officer in Central FL....  

and I second that the RO needs to start calling TV stations.  use the media propaganda machine for our benefit for once.  

Quoted: Today the clerk who was threatened went to the Sunrise PD to file a complaint.  Hehad with him the case number from the original incendent and a list of the statutes from the florida code (Thanks ARFCOMMERS) that were broken in the first place. Guess what ?  The desk sergeant ran the case number that the clerk was given by the responding officers and no file came up !  The clerk was told that "The report has not been filed yet--check back in a few days" This happend on Sunday JULY 30TH and today is August 8th--and it hasn't been filed yet ? WTF ??? More is going on here then meets they eye....cover-up is my bet... Dale Gribble where are you when we need you ?

Sounds like a lazy cop.
Reports do take couple days to show up and on occasion it will take much longer.
My wife's car was stolen last year and then found 1 hour later but they didn't file the report for over 30 days.  Needless to say it caused a lot of headache.

Sorry guys, it aint a cover up.  If they gave you a case number, a report was made (but it doesn't mean you'll agree with what was written).  Most depts around here take 7-10 business days for a report to go through (unless there is still some type of investigation or the sgt doesn't like it for whatever reason then it may take more).  Remember, the .gov is really slow.  It has to go from the officer, then the sgt, then possibly the detectives, then to records.  

I dont know if going to the "Media" is the best thing for a "Gun Range Incident"... that just feeds the Sheeple into the whole "GUNS ARE THE DEVIL" thing.

If no action is taken at the Police HQ. Call the Attorneys office or the States Attorney Generals office and file a complaint.

Dont call the Media. Thats just asking for all flavors of BAD.

Quoted: Today the clerk who was threatened went to the Sunrise PD to file a complaint.  Hehad with him the case number from the original incendent and a list of the statutes from the florida code (Thanks ARFCOMMERS) that were broken in the first place. Guess what ?  The desk sergeant ran the case number that the clerk was given by the responding officers and no file came up !  The clerk was told that "The report has not been filed yet--check back in a few days" This happend on Sunday JULY 30TH and today is August 8th--and it hasn't been filed yet ? WTF ??? More is going on here then meets they eye....cover-up is my bet... Dale Gribble where are you when we need you ?

Where I work reports are usually ready in 48 hours unless it was kicked back then it takes a little longer.  Our reorts have to be done by the end of shift unless there is prior approval from the sargent.  If we pull a case number and don't write a report someone is going to get his/her arse in a crack.

Dan

Quoted: Quoted: Today the clerk who was threatened went to the Sunrise PD to file a complaint.  Hehad with him the case number from the original incendent and a list of the statutes from the florida code (Thanks ARFCOMMERS) that were broken in the first place. Guess what ?  The desk sergeant ran the case number that the clerk was given by the responding officers and no file came up !  The clerk was told that "The report has not been filed yet--check back in a few days" This happend on Sunday JULY 30TH and today is August 8th--and it hasn't been filed yet ? WTF ??? More is going on here then meets they eye....cover-up is my bet... Dale Gribble where are you when we need you ? Where I work reports are usually ready in 48 hours unless it was kicked back then it takes a little longer.  Our reorts have to be done by the end of shift unless there is prior approval from the sargent.  If we pull a case number and don't write a report someone is going to get his/her arse in a crack. Dan

and for an opposing perspective, we are issued a case number for every call regardless if it is written or not. We utilize a phonetic code out system to indicate if the case was written, unfounded, alarm, service call, civil assist etc. The records division can look up a case number and tell if it was a written report or not by the code.

Just some FYI I ran into on the Division of Licensing site:

http://licgweb.doacs.state.fl.us/weapons/self_defense.html


Good quotes:

"The law considers even an unloaded gun to be a deadly weapon when it is pointed at someone."


Q. What if I point my handgun at someone but don't use it?

A. Never display a handgun to gain "leverage" in an argument. Threatening someone verbally while possessing a handgun, even licensed, will land you in jail for three years. Even if the gun is broken or you don't have bullets, you will receive the mandatory three-year sentence if convicted. The law does not allow any possibility of getting out of jail early.

As of thursday Aug 10th the case had still not been filed, that's two weeks (nine days if you only count 'business' days.)

A sergeant told the victim (the clerk) that on Tuesday the 8th he would get a call back...nothing so far.

The clerk should take a visit to the State Attorney with the case number and info.

Quoted: The clerk should take a visit to the State Attorney with the case number and info.

Yep, hold their feet to the fire.

Well, from what I've read here, this guy got a free ride because of who he knew.  

I would have supported the three year mandatory sentence

790.07  Persons engaged in criminal offense, having weapons.--

(1)  Whoever, while committing or attempting to commit any felony or while under indictment, displays, uses, threatens, or attempts to use any weapon or electric weapon or device or carries a concealed weapon is guilty of a felony of the third degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084.

(2)  Whoever, while committing or attempting to commit any felony, displays, uses, threatens, or attempts to use any firearm or carries a concealed firearm is guilty of a felony of the second degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, and s. 775.084.

I don't think it gets any more clear than this. If it would've been any of us the ASSAILANT would not be too happy right now!

I read this topic and it got me so hot I failed to look when it had been posted, I would really like an update on the situation from a R.O.

As of Thrusday night (Aug 10th)  The clerk was unable to file a complain because the Sunrise PD had no file to go with his case number.  They told him "The paperwork was not filed yet"  and a sergeant promised to call him back.

I will get an update on Aug. 12th from the clerk.  If there is still no paperwork by then, I will post the case number he was given by the responding officers and the name of the patrol supervisor that told him "unless you see... (the perpetrator)..load the magazine and put it in the gun and chameber a round it isn't considered a weapon".

Then I suggest every swinging dick with a computer E-mails a complaint to Sunrise PD and to Weston Commisioner Lois Wexler and Parks Commisoner Harbin.  If Sunrise isn't covering something up, they are then just being grossly incompetent.  Either situation calls for some serious action.

Update will come tomorrow night.  Hang on until then.

Standing By....