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KUSA out of business? (Page 3 of 4)
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Link Posted: 5/3/2024 10:28:46 PM EDT
[#1]
Link Posted: 5/3/2024 10:34:17 PM EDT
[#2]
Link Posted: 5/3/2024 10:41:01 PM EDT
[#3]
C'mon dry, let's make this work! You, me, Zen and drag. Bunch of old dudes and me a semi old dude...I keed, and some cool guns, and he said pie!
Link Posted: 5/3/2024 11:00:08 PM EDT
[#4]
For what it's worth, my KUSA rifle had to go back because they put the bump rivet in and then forgot to crush it.  It then had to go back because they repainted only that side of the rifle in a different paint.

It's a really nice gun now.
Link Posted: 5/3/2024 11:24:43 PM EDT
[#5]
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Originally Posted By nictra:
C'mon dry, let's make this work! You, me, Zen and drag. Bunch of old dudes and me a semi old dude...I keed, and some cool guns, and he said pie!
View Quote


That would be a blast wouldn't it? But Dry's right, quite the trip for ya'll, hell it's like 1500 miles just to get out of Texas, lol.

But life is whimsical, if I ever win the lottery, i'm gonna throw my own Kalash-Bash and y'all got paid tickets to my party, shooting, hunting, reloading, more shooting, food, music, more shooting, more reloading, fishing, shooting, food, shooting, and some shooting.

I'm gonna invite Ted Nugent too, and Pete Brownell so we can give him shit and share Brownell'ed memes. Bonnie Rotten is not invited. Blaine from Atlantic is invited because he has awesome beard and guns. Josiah and Jamin are invited to attend and give motivational speeches and bring non-clone correct guns. Sven from Manticore is invited because I like the name Sven, and guns. Tyler Butts from CNCW is invited because I like butts and I cannot lie. Aenemabay is invited to explain how his handle is not about enemas. The rest of the rabble here is invited so I can explain to them in person how my vision of the perfect AK is perfect and how wrong they are about everything. Salma Hayek is invited because reasons.
Link Posted: 5/4/2024 10:35:59 AM EDT
[#6]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Dragynn:


That would be a blast wouldn't it? But Dry's right, quite the trip for ya'll, hell it's like 1500 miles just to get out of Texas, lol.

But life is whimsical, if I ever win the lottery, i'm gonna throw my own Kalash-Bash and y'all got paid tickets to my party, shooting, hunting, reloading, more shooting, food, music, more shooting, more reloading, fishing, shooting, food, shooting, and some shooting.

I'm gonna invite Ted Nugent too, and Pete Brownell so we can give him shit and share Brownell'ed memes. Bonnie Rotten is not invited. Blaine from Atlantic is invited because he has awesome beard and guns. Josiah and Jamin are invited to attend and give motivational speeches and bring non-clone correct guns. Sven from Manticore is invited because I like the name Sven, and guns. Tyler Butts from CNCW is invited because I like butts and I cannot lie. Aenemabay is invited to explain how his handle is not about enemas. The rest of the rabble here is invited so I can explain to them in person how my vision of the perfect AK is perfect and how wrong they are about everything. Salma Hayek is invited because reasons.
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Originally Posted By Dragynn:
Originally Posted By nictra:
C'mon dry, let's make this work! You, me, Zen and drag. Bunch of old dudes and me a semi old dude...I keed, and some cool guns, and he said pie!


That would be a blast wouldn't it? But Dry's right, quite the trip for ya'll, hell it's like 1500 miles just to get out of Texas, lol.

But life is whimsical, if I ever win the lottery, i'm gonna throw my own Kalash-Bash and y'all got paid tickets to my party, shooting, hunting, reloading, more shooting, food, music, more shooting, more reloading, fishing, shooting, food, shooting, and some shooting.

I'm gonna invite Ted Nugent too, and Pete Brownell so we can give him shit and share Brownell'ed memes. Bonnie Rotten is not invited. Blaine from Atlantic is invited because he has awesome beard and guns. Josiah and Jamin are invited to attend and give motivational speeches and bring non-clone correct guns. Sven from Manticore is invited because I like the name Sven, and guns. Tyler Butts from CNCW is invited because I like butts and I cannot lie. Aenemabay is invited to explain how his handle is not about enemas. The rest of the rabble here is invited so I can explain to them in person how my vision of the perfect AK is perfect and how wrong they are about everything. Salma Hayek is invited because reasons.
Good Lord that's hysterical amd on point. I love it

1500 miles is just another day in Texas, you're right about that

I was just up at Ft Moore in Georgia last weekend. 12 to 15 hours one way is an easy trip, so don't threaten me with a good time. I ain't scared to take you up on it



Link Posted: 5/4/2024 11:17:34 AM EDT
[Last Edit: AEnemaBay] [#7]
Looks like Klayco/Third Pin Threads/I think he has another company, is part of the group buying KUSA:

Instagram

BIG NEWS! @thirdpinthreads is moving AND...."investing"
View Quote
Link Posted: 5/4/2024 11:21:36 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Evintos] [#8]
https://www.instagram.com/reel/C6jKOi8LGcg/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link

K-USA to Klay-USA? This may be one of the biggest troll posts ever or the potential start of an amazing future for Kalashnikov USA.





Edit - Beat by 4 mins. Still pretty hype.
Link Posted: 5/4/2024 11:36:03 AM EDT
[#9]
I wish them luck.
Link Posted: 5/4/2024 2:01:01 PM EDT
[#10]
Who is thirdpinthreads?
Link Posted: 5/4/2024 2:14:52 PM EDT
[#11]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By tranzformer:
Who is thirdpinthreads?
View Quote


Lemme google that for ya
Link Posted: 5/4/2024 2:20:26 PM EDT
[#12]
Link Posted: 5/4/2024 2:56:23 PM EDT
[#13]
Link Posted: 5/4/2024 4:01:25 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Dragynn] [#14]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By dryflash3:
Fun to dream, but we do need to get back on topic.
View Quote


True enough, sorry about that, was just trying to diffuse the tension last night with some humor.

Back to KUSA. I'm sure it's exciting for the Klay guy and the t-shirt people to think about buying their own AK company, but realistically KUSA probably has a ton of debt associated with it, I would wait and just try to buy the tooling during what's probably going to be a firesale, and name the new company something different. You buy KUSA outright, you buy their debt, not a smart way to start.

Gonna be tough to outbid PSA though if they want some of that tooling.
Link Posted: 5/4/2024 5:20:51 PM EDT
[Last Edit: MaxxII] [#15]
ETA - Late to the party and it's already been posted.
Link Posted: 5/4/2024 7:00:09 PM EDT
[#16]
Hmmmmm.  A place near me has a clean lightly used KR-9 9mm side folder with fake suppressor, case and 2 mags for $700.  I think I need to rescue that one on Monday as there will be no more of these.
Link Posted: 5/4/2024 10:29:29 PM EDT
[#17]
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Originally Posted By dryflash3:
Fun to dream, but we do need to get back on topic.
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Originally Posted By dryflash3:
Originally Posted By TX-Zen:
Good Lord that's hysterical amd on point. I love it

1500 miles is just another day in Texas, you're right about that

I was just up at Ft Moore in Georgia last weekend. 12 to 15 hours one way is an easy trip, so don't threaten me with a good time. I ain't scared to take you up on it



Fun to dream, but we do need to get back on topic.
Beat down accepted, and justified. Definitely went off the rails for a bit

As for KUSA, maybe if they are going out of business PSA could theoretically step in and buy them. It would line up with the Soviet Arms line of ZenitCo accessories that PSA is putting out too, and be another step in having good domestic AK options and gear



Link Posted: 5/5/2024 6:41:04 AM EDT
[#18]
Link Posted: 5/5/2024 7:36:36 AM EDT
[#19]
Dang, wonder what I’ll do about kp9 magazines
Link Posted: 5/5/2024 12:27:09 PM EDT
[#20]
Link Posted: 5/5/2024 12:44:51 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Dragynn] [#21]
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Originally Posted By ATLANTIC-FIREARMS:
The KUSA product line has a ton of potential


View Quote


Indeed, would make a nice inclusion into Atlantic's in-house production lines.

ETA: And probably have a lot better chance at success than it will if some intertoob and T-shirt guys try to make a go of it. No offense intended to them.
Link Posted: 5/5/2024 7:07:24 PM EDT
[#22]
Link Posted: 5/5/2024 7:41:35 PM EDT
[Last Edit: RABIDFOX50] [#23]
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Originally Posted By MustyWaffles:

I always get flabbergasted with the PSA hate. And it’s always from people with 0 first hand experience with the product. Makes me chuckle.
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Call me a PSA fanboy. I love their stuff and only had one bad experience with a total ass PSAR10. Everything else I have purchased from them has run like a Timex and I’ll put their ARs up to any other manufacturer. My PSAK103 has been flawless.

My hope is that KUSA can be saved and maybe PSA can do it. This industry can not afford to lose experienced people and my hope for the KUSA employees is strong!
Link Posted: 5/5/2024 8:27:24 PM EDT
[#24]
So, with  all this, WOULD a nice clean KR9 at a good price still be a good buy?  My KR-103 has been perfect, sights centered and shows little wear indicating a well put together rifle; assume a PCC in same shape would have similar traits..
Link Posted: 5/5/2024 9:28:11 PM EDT
[#25]
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Originally Posted By ATLANTIC-FIREARMS:

Sounds very interesting ......
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AK = Atlantic Kalashnikov

Nice ring to it....just sayin'....
Link Posted: 5/5/2024 10:22:49 PM EDT
[#26]
Link Posted: 5/5/2024 10:36:34 PM EDT
[#27]
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Originally Posted By scottrh2:
So, with  all this, WOULD a nice clean KR9 at a good price still be a good buy?  My KR-103 has been perfect, sights centered and shows little wear indicating a well put together rifle; assume a PCC in same shape would have similar traits..
View Quote
You'd have to make peace with the potential OOB issue, and possibly the general consensus in Russia that the Vityaz is not a 20,000+ round count gun. There's something about the service ammo they use and the blowback design that according to them doesn't lend itself well to longevity. That said I haven't seen a way to confirm if what they have said is true, or particular to how the Russians use it vs what we might do over here, but meanwhile I shoot the piss out of mine. I did get the OOB fix done by KUSA but that was only recently and accounts for about 1% of the rounds I've fired through it before it became an official issue

I will say the big selling point for me is the really impressive accuracty of the KR9. Mine shoots 1 to 1.5 inch groups at 50 yards and holds tighter groups than a lot of my 5.45 rifles. It's a ridiculously fun PCC with subs and a suppressor too, and since my favorite thing is night vision hunting I've figured out ways to get mine tweaked just the way I like it, and consequently have taken it out hunting many a night with great success on varmints

The risk with the KR9 is who will support it now if you have a problem, but I've made peace with that and would use a competent gunsmith friend to keep it running even if cost me my own money. I think it's that great of a rifle, but not everyone is willing to do that of course. If one of these other companies step in and takes over that potential issue would be solved, so there's still a chance the warranty could be a non issue. Maybe






Link Posted: 5/5/2024 10:37:11 PM EDT
[#28]
I’m surprised no one has brought up the connection to the Larry Vickers shenanigans?  Wasn’t kusa implicated in that whole ordeal?
Link Posted: 5/6/2024 11:12:04 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Evintos] [#29]
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Originally Posted By ChemTrailZ:
I’m surprised no one has brought up the connection to the Larry Vickers shenanigans?  Wasn’t kusa implicated in that whole ordeal?
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Pure speculation on my part, I would assume the loss of Larry Vickers as a financial backer (due to legal issues) was one of the main reasons why K-USA was desperate enough to accept Jesse James' money. Timing seems to match though. ATF seizes Vicker's collection around Oct 2021, Jesse James comes in around 2022. Company gets ran into the ground in 2023.

Company gets brought back to life in 2024 by Khyber Customs/Third Pin Threads/Kalash-Bash group? Maybe.
Link Posted: 5/6/2024 2:27:05 PM EDT
[#30]
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Originally Posted By TX-Zen:
You'd have to make peace with the potential OOB issue, and possibly the general consensus in Russia that the Vityaz is not a 20,000+ round count gun. There's something about the service ammo they use and the blowback design that according to them doesn't lend itself well to longevity.
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As I recall Russian military 9mm is much hotter than NATO 9mm. Comparable to P+ or that old IDF SMG ammo.

Link Posted: 5/6/2024 6:10:52 PM EDT
[#31]
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Originally Posted By Gelandewagen:


As I recall Russian military 9mm is much hotter than NATO 9mm. Comparable to P+ or that old IDF SMG ammo.

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Originally Posted By Gelandewagen:
Originally Posted By TX-Zen:
You'd have to make peace with the potential OOB issue, and possibly the general consensus in Russia that the Vityaz is not a 20,000+ round count gun. There's something about the service ammo they use and the blowback design that according to them doesn't lend itself well to longevity.


As I recall Russian military 9mm is much hotter than NATO 9mm. Comparable to P+ or that old IDF SMG ammo.

That is my understanding as well, and that there may be differences in projectile design that may cause 'abnormal' wear compared to ball ammo for example. I haven't done a deep dive into technical details so take it with a grain of salt, but when I first heard the Vityaz was a 7000 round gun it caught my attention, and off I went to see what I could find out. From the Russian forums I hit they seemed to confirm the 7000ish round number, but I never saw hard evidence of exactly why, so again, take it all with a grain of salt. Doesn't bother me personally but I think it's valid enough to share so that others can research or not, and make their own decision


Link Posted: 5/6/2024 7:37:42 PM EDT
[#32]
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Originally Posted By dryflash3:
Ya, it does.
View Quote


I think it would be an outstanding match. But it's gonna be quite a while probably before anything of substance actually happens.

I do root for the little guy, but I don't see a lot of hope that a few 1-2 man operations could really pick up this ball and run with it at this point.

I love PSA, massive respect for what they've done, finally a US made AK where they learned from mistakes and got it RIGHT. FINALLY, lol.

But competition is good for everybody. Really don't want to see PSA gobble up this one.

Atlantic may be the perfect fit. Well established and secure. Perhaps the most amazing selection of firearms in the western hemisphere, legendary customer service, a plethora of in-house and closely subbed products already, large customer base and very knowledgeable and dedicated to quality AK rifles already. I think all that would be a recipe for success going forward for the KUSA products and others to come.
Link Posted: 5/6/2024 10:11:15 PM EDT
[#33]
Link Posted: 5/6/2024 10:38:42 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Dragynn] [#34]
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Originally Posted By Melvin_Johnson:
AK Quality Enforcement
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toober/IG/LOOK AT ME  horseshit as usual. They just filed chapter 11 today.
Link Posted: 5/6/2024 11:00:15 PM EDT
[#35]
Link Posted: 5/7/2024 8:01:33 AM EDT
[#36]
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Originally Posted By Melvin_Johnson:
AK Quality Enforcement is posting on his IG page that KUSA has been purchased by an investment group.
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Makes me think of “Freedom Group” that fucked up Remington, Para Ord, Bushmaster and so many other good companies.
Link Posted: 5/7/2024 9:13:44 AM EDT
[Last Edit: dmk0210] [#37]
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Originally Posted By Dragynn:


I think it would be an outstanding match. But it's gonna be quite a while probably before anything of substance actually happens.

I do root for the little guy, but I don't see a lot of hope that a few 1-2 man operations could really pick up this ball and run with it at this point.

I love PSA, massive respect for what they've done, finally a US made AK where they learned from mistakes and got it RIGHT. FINALLY, lol.

But competition is good for everybody. Really don't want to see PSA gobble up this one.

Atlantic may be the perfect fit. Well established and secure. Perhaps the most amazing selection of firearms in the western hemisphere, legendary customer service, a plethora of in-house and closely subbed products already, large customer base and very knowledgeable and dedicated to quality AK rifles already. I think all that would be a recipe for success going forward for the KUSA products and others to come.
View Quote

Well said. I was thinking that very same thing.

I'd like to see someone who has experience with building AKs take them over, but not PSA.  We don't want a US AK monopoly. That's not good for the consumer.

Link Posted: 5/7/2024 9:19:55 AM EDT
[#38]
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Originally Posted By scottrh2:


Makes me think of “Freedom Group” that fucked up Remington, Para Ord, Bushmaster and so many other good companies.
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Investment groups often care about only one thing. Profit. They don't care about product, quality or customer service.

That's not always the case, but unfortunately it is true too often.
Link Posted: 5/7/2024 12:41:04 PM EDT
[#39]
If they are filing chapter 11, they might not be getting bought by anyone, 11 is for re-organization, not firesale.

Chapter 7 = Firesale, liquidation, creditors in a certain order get whatever the proceeds are, some get nothing.
Chapter 11 = Reorganization, company continues to exist and do business, some creditors might get paid, many may be screwed.

"A Chapter 11 bankruptcy will result in one of three outcomes for the debtor: reorganization, conversion to Chapter 7 bankruptcy, or dismissal.  In order for a Chapter 11 debtor to reorganize, the debtor must file (and the court must confirm) a plan of reorganization. In effect, the plan is a compromise between the major stakeholders in the case, including the debtor and its creditors.

In a Chapter 11 bankruptcy, the debtor corporation is typically recapitalized so that it emerges from bankruptcy with more equity and less debt, a process through which some of the debtor corporation's debts may be discharged.

Chapter 11 affords the debtor in possession a number of mechanisms to restructure its business. A debtor in possession can acquire financing and loans on favorable terms by giving new lenders first priority on the business's earnings."
Link Posted: 5/7/2024 1:05:03 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Evintos] [#40]
The assumption is that they have enough capital ongoing to both satisfy creditors and continue operations. If not, a chapter 11 proceeding can be converted to a chapter 7 by the debtor (RWC Group LLC) if cause is shown.

On the other side - if creditors can prove that chapter 11 reorganization and continued operations is not possible with current management (due to fraud, gross negligence, etc), then they can request that the court assign a trustee to formulate and execute a debt management plan as well as continue operations until the creditors is made whole and the company is on the right path again, however, if the trustee's assessment is that the company is a lost cause, they will recommend to the court a liquidation plan, which converts the chapter 11 to a chapter 7.
Link Posted: 5/7/2024 1:12:18 PM EDT
[#41]
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Originally Posted By Evintos:
The assumption is that they have enough capital ongoing to both satisfy creditors and continue operations. If not, a chapter 11 proceeding can be converted to a chapter 7 by the debtor (RWC Group LLC) if cause is shown.

On the other side - if creditors can prove that chapter 11 reorganization and continued operations is not possible with current management (due to fraud, gross negligence, etc), then they can request that the court assign a trustee to formulate and execute a debt management plan as well as continue operations until the creditors is made whole and the company is on the right path again, however, if the trustee's assessment is that the company is a lost cause, they will recommend to the court a liquidation plan, which converts the chapter 11 to a chapter 7.
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Yep. So as I said before, I think it's unlikely that anything substantial is going to happen soon....now that .gov is involved.

If I was a smaller businessman, or heck even a larger one, I wouldn't be throwing any money whatsoever their way if current management is retained.

Chapter 7 is a different story, basically buying the tooling, name, product assets and any patents.
Link Posted: 5/7/2024 1:43:06 PM EDT
[#42]
c'mon cheap KR9's in the EE!

I've waffled for too long on one of these I think. I'd rather have the KR9 over the PSA offering, but I guess I'd do either at this point.
Link Posted: 5/7/2024 1:55:04 PM EDT
[#43]
Picked this up today, hopefully nothing goes wrong with it. I guess there’s no reason to fill out the extended warranty card


Attachment Attached File
Link Posted: 5/7/2024 1:57:57 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Evintos] [#44]
RWC Group LLC - the holding company's (debtor) goal/strategy in the chapter 11 is likely eliminate the debt in multiple parts. Get the court to reclassify the secured claims into unsecured claims then reduce or eliminate priority unsecured claims and to completely eliminate the unsecured claims. This allows RWC Group LLC to retain its remaining assets and capital (whatever they may be, assets that are also separate from K-USA) so that liquidation and dissolution of the holding company never happens. Otherwise RWC Group LLC files chapter 7 and ceases to exist.

Goal for creditors - get paid. So the question becomes, for the secured creditors, what is the claim and contract terms (essentially what collateral they can take possession of) and for the unsecured creditors, are they going to get paid? I don't think it's likely.

Most likely the asset, Kalashnikov USA (as the brand, intellectual property, etc) would be sold off to an outside purchaser in the chapter 11 or chapter 7 process, and the profits from that sale generated to pay off creditors/debt of the holding company and the reason why (in my opinion) - K-USA operations have effectively ceased, the employees are laid off, RWC Group LLC has been evicted so there's no premise to continue operations, and the parts suppliers (unsecured creditors) are unlikely to work with RWC Group LLC. RWC Group LLC may no longer own K-USA, but they survive, IF they have enough assets.

The alternative is that RWC Group LLC obtains a distressed equity investor/s that is willing to assume all of the debt from unsecured creditors on up. This allows RWC Group LLC to retain all their assets which includes K-USA. However, if the distressed equity investor is not willing to assume the debt of at least down to the unsecured creditors (just above equity investor), majority of the unsecured creditors being parts suppliers, K-USA's operation will remain dead.

As a consumer, the survival and future of RWC Group LLC is irrelevant. The future of the K-USA is more important and most likely it gets sold off with the new owners not assuming any of the holding company's debt.
Link Posted: 5/7/2024 1:59:23 PM EDT
[#45]
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Originally Posted By THATS-A-BINGO:
Picked this up today, hopefully nothing goes wrong with it. I guess there’s no reason to fill out the extended warranty card


https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/361826/IMG_0123_jpeg-3208009.JPG
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Nice! But i'd still fill out that card, no telling how this shakes out, you may still be able to get service for it in the future.
Link Posted: 5/7/2024 8:18:51 PM EDT
[#46]
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Originally Posted By THATS-A-BINGO:
Picked this up today, hopefully nothing goes wrong with it. I guess there’s no reason to fill out the extended warranty card


https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/361826/IMG_0123_jpeg-3208009.JPG
View Quote

Sweet!

Was it in stock at a local gun shop?

Hope you got some extra mags with it!

Link Posted: 5/7/2024 9:08:59 PM EDT
[#47]
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Originally Posted By Evintos:
The future of the K-USA is more important and most likely it gets sold off with the new owners not assuming any of the holding company's debt.
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Most likely scenario IMO.

Wish I had more money in the stash, i'd go in with nictra and TX-Zen and we could make the TK 47/74, the Texas Kalashnikov, bigger, better, badasser.

I'd finally get me an AK in .45 Colt, and another in 45-70 to drop mooses and cape buffalo.
Link Posted: 5/7/2024 9:24:31 PM EDT
[#48]
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Originally Posted By dmk0210:

Sweet!

Was it in stock at a local gun shop?

Hope you got some extra mags with it!

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Originally Posted By dmk0210:
Originally Posted By THATS-A-BINGO:
Picked this up today, hopefully nothing goes wrong with it. I guess there’s no reason to fill out the extended warranty card


https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/361826/IMG_0123_jpeg-3208009.JPG

Sweet!

Was it in stock at a local gun shop?

Hope you got some extra mags with it!




Ordered online, sadly no extra mags.
Link Posted: 5/7/2024 11:49:22 PM EDT
[#49]
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Originally Posted By THATS-A-BINGO:



Ordered online, sadly no extra mags.
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Originally Posted By THATS-A-BINGO:
Originally Posted By dmk0210:
Originally Posted By THATS-A-BINGO:
Picked this up today, hopefully nothing goes wrong with it. I guess there’s no reason to fill out the extended warranty card


https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/361826/IMG_0123_jpeg-3208009.JPG

Sweet!

Was it in stock at a local gun shop?

Hope you got some extra mags with it!




Ordered online, sadly no extra mags.


Order yourself some Puf mags.

https://www.akstuff.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=267
Link Posted: 5/8/2024 1:01:53 PM EDT
[#50]
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Originally Posted By dryflash3:
Ya, it does.
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Originally Posted By dryflash3:
Originally Posted By Dragynn:
Originally Posted By ATLANTIC-FIREARMS:

Sounds very interesting ......


AK = Atlantic Kalashnikov

Nice ring to it....just sayin'....
Ya, it does.
@ATLANTIC-FIREARMS


+3 to Atlantic Kalashnikov. You guys would be a great owner of the KUSA product line if that could be made to happen



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KUSA out of business? (Page 3 of 4)
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