@Jman_JJE
Some of these guys have no idea what level of expertise they are talking to. If I were you, I wouldn't even waste my time.  

Removed. dryflash3

Surplus > US made AK anything. YMMV.

Russian ammo ban would keep me from starting AK when brass 5.56x45 is just slightly more expensive than 7.62x39 .

If I knew now what I did 20 years ago, I wouldn't have at all. I have plenty I don't feel as if I need to dump AK, but I surely have no intention of expanding.

Too bad too, cause AKs are fun to shoot.

I just called the guy that runs toolcraft. Out of a million plus bcg production in the last year he told me they have had under 10 warranty claims for broken bolts. I don't know if you had a broken bolt or not, but you are trying to create drama and stir the pot. You are a clueless as to what goes on in the industry

Plenty of 5.56 and 9mm AK options.


More shocking is that 9mm is the same price as 5.56 anymore.

Why the hell are you two arguing about AR15 BCG in an AK47 thread on the AK47 forum?

OP wants to know about US production AK's. Regardless of Toolcraft is a supplier and whatever quality problems that may or may not exist with Toolcraft - it's irrelevant.

PSA AKs - while great they exist are by and large accepted as utterly inferior to military grade imports.

KUSA - over priced gimmick until proven otherwise.

DPSM - Just a rebranded PSA now that PSA is trying to move further up market and starting a new brand - Soviet Arms.

OP should just buy his PSA/DPSM and be done with it. He's already made his mind up and is just looking for other people to validate his decision.

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If toolcraft’s AR bolts have trouble, their AK bolts most likely will as well. OP really should know that WASRs are regularly available for $850.

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Sidefolder WASR posted on EE for $700 today.

No EE links in posts. COC Specific to Sales #2. Please reread Conduct Code, you may have skipped past it. dryflash3

What's the big crime of the WASR? Canted Sights and Park finish? Get some Duracoat and punch-pin, problem solved. Guys have had canted sights with PSA and my M70 had canted sights.

I'm putting you on ignore after this as you are trying to create an issue that doesn't exist and you are derailing this thread. PSA has not had an issue with toolcraft BCGs being returned for bolts breaking. There has not been an issue with toolcraft bolts in other oems either as 60 percent of the industry BCG come from them and the problem would have been wide spread among manufacturers. I have had colt and FN bcg break in the military. If you make millions of something you will have a some breakage with use. You are simply trolling.

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Sweet merciful crap.

So much garbage in this thread.  I'm sorry that you wandered into the AK side and stepped in this poo, Melvin_Johnson.  I've always enjoyed your threads on the other side, especially the Ruger-centric stuff.

I will say, the WASR of the late 2010s is a WAY different gun than the WASR of the early 2000s, so lovingly known as "What A Shitty Rifle" by aficionados then. This is more a testament to Cugir getting their act together than Century.  After the SAR series ended, they gradually improved the WASR into a relatively good AKM clone, with the exception of the dimples.  Century has decided to take advantage of the demand by hiking the price coupled with putting on the cheapiest, crappiest furniture possible to squeeze the most profit margin on them they can.   They'd rather you buy their US-made junk since it has even more margin.  The best thing that could happen to Cugir is divorce themselves from Century and go their own way like Zastava.  If you don't like Romanian guns though, that's totally fair.  I remember when a low-cap WASR was a $150 rifle, so seeing them retail for more than $1000 is painful.  And PSLs for $2000, yikes.

I personally would not buy a Century VSKA, RAS-47, or C39V2 based on their troubled history.  The well-documented headspacing issues are enough to convince me to stay away.

Palmetto's AKs got pretty good at their third generation, the GF3 line.  The trunnion, bolt, and carrier do not tolerate cheaply cast parts and they cracked that code by forging them.  The GF4 and GF5 evolve on that, and the 103/104 lines slot in there as specific-interest items.  Coupled with the lifetime warranty, a 7.62x39 PSA is just fine.  Rob Ski's testing at AKOU has showed them to be good, with his admonishment to keep the QC high so bad ones don't sneak through.  I suspect what bad ones are out there are probably proportional to the sheer quantity they ship.  JJE owns the DPMS brand after the Remington auction, and it seems the "Anvil" rifle is just a rebranded basic GF3 rifle that they can sell into retail/distributor channels instead of PSA direct sales.

To be fair, their AK-74 line got off to a rough start and they've been off the market for a while.  There's just been less domestic development on the 5.45 guns, and I guess their 7.62x39 experience didn't translate over as easily as I had hoped it would.  I am looking forward to these becoming available again.  I have a bunch of folding stock 5.45s, so I really just want a plain-ol' fixed plum stock PSAK-74.  

Riley Defense is very hit or miss.  It seems like they haven't unlocked all the secrets quite like PSA; they talked up a bunch their 5.45 rifles but then those fizzled when the bolts were soft.

K-USA seems pretty committed to their 9mm and 12ga AKs; I haven't seen many/any of their 103 guns out in the marketplace.  They had good initial reviews but haven't seemed to make volume at all.

Zastava has been killing it with their M70 and M90 lines, and I'm a believer there.  I know the Yugo pattern isn't standard, but given their volume, it's quickly becoming a design manufacturers are paying attention to.  They are worth a look at the least.

If I were buying an AK right now, I'd flip a coin between the M70 or the PSA 103.  For the record, I already have an M70 and I almost bought one of the PSAK-103 side-folder builder kits last week.  I have some spare handguards and stocks laid out, just need a trigger to be able to finish one.

I'd say PSA would be the best bet if buying a US made version no question. The dpms version is probably the cheapest one or the no furniture. I would definitely grab another WASR if the price was right and will probably get one along with a few PSAs down the road no question.

I'd still spend the coin and get an import but that's me. I'll continue to spend thousands at PSA and might grab one of the AK furniture sets if I pimp out my arsenal soon.





Also Toolcraft is gtg but that's a moot point here

^ That's a pretty dang sexy rifle, and not necessarily lipstick on a pig, there's just not a whole lot of high mileage, trouble (relatively!) free KR-103s running but as I said in one of my previous posts, I'd give them a shot, pun intended!

It’s chinesium.

As a rule of thumb... Import AKs are built to be used by military, and all sorts of ruffians in the worst places on the planet. They're meant to work, not to look pretty, and they compete in a market where people kill and get killed, and the minimum order quantity is spelled in 20' shipping containers. Big boys' playground.

US AKs are manufactured for the US civilian market, and only came into existence thanks to import restrictions. The goal is to make money selling to the weekend warriors, so in most cases (not all, but most) the underlying thinking is "What can I get away with, and how much do I need to polish a turd to sell it for $$?"

If you had to build an AK in the US with forged and milled receiver, forged trunnion and bolt, cold hammer forged and hard chrome barrel, with a side-folding latch that actually lasts longer than two weeks before flopping around the hinge, how much do you think you'd have to sell it for?

Even HK doesn't use these manufacturing methods, they'd go broke or would have to stick a Rolls Royce logo on their slides.

Removed. dryflash3

I like PSA, have spent over 6 grand with them in the last...lord, almost 10 years now? Great company, awesome story, real American success story.

That being said, I kind of have a rule of thumb, example: I always wanted an HK91 from the very first time I fired one, but as a poor blue-collar boy, just could not afford the several thousands of dollars that one cost back in the day.

Then PTR came along and started building American-made versions at an affordable price, but I know how these things usually go and determined that 10 years would probably be required before they perfected them. And I was right, they had plenty of issues those first years, but they stuck to it, learned from mistakes and most importantly corrected those mistakes one by one.

10 years later I bought one, and it's a fantastic rifle, everything I wanted.

So when PSA announced they were making AK's, again I got really excited, but I remembered my rule...and my little rules like this have saved me much misery in my life, so that's pretty much the deal for me with PSA AK's, so far the story has been the same all along the way, the various mistakes, the corrections, all the time getting better and better.

So should be another few years, but i'm guessing they get it right in the end like PTR did, and i'll happily buy one then.

RE: Zastava: have owned several, would not buy another one, something's always slightly fucked up with them. And I don't mean easily repairable stuff like canted sights or a bad rivet.

Bottom line IMO: It's just simply not a good time to buy an AK, i'm sticking with the ones I have unless prices come down quite a bit. Sorry OP, I know that's probably not what you wanted to hear.

Outstanding points and one of the huge problems brought on by Soviet/ChiCom and Surplus Arms. People see an SKS as a $150 beater rifle - the reality is the machine work, time and materials are basically equivalent to an M1A. People don't blink at a $2k M1A but $600 for a SKS is vomit inducing.

Parts kits are the same. Those forged barrels and trunnions did not cost only $100-$300 to make. They are just selling for that because they are scrap at this point.  The Soviets and Chinese invested hundreds of millions into infrastructure to build these weapons and then employed essentially highly skilled slave labor to build hundreds of thousands of firearms.

The new zastava m70 AKs are the best bang for your buck but not being the classic akm style I understand why they aren't as popular. I know they have had issues when they first started but they are putting out super nice rifles currently. The older century underfolder zastava rifles where hit and miss but they did sub contract some out that were built great back then.


The WASR AKs from what I hear can be hit or miss still but are super reliable and can take a beating. I'd pick one up but not at a grand. They were worth the price all day everyday back then.


PSA would be my US option if imports went away completely.

Kusa I don't know anything about but they are priced fairly high.

I have a arsenal 107r that is a bit clunky as far as the action goes due to the bolt riding the hammer and maybe I can solve that but I'm hoping it lives up to its reputation. 1300-2000 AKs make me want to stay where I'm at and pump the breaks on getting into them hard core. Just seen the sam5 on the rack at a shop by me for almost 1900 and I couldn't bring myself to buying.

KUSA an "over priced gimmick" ?  I don't think so.

This past year Kalashnikov USA successfully fulfilled two contracts for the US government, one to an agency of the Department of Homeland Security and the other to the Big Green Machine.

I don't think they did that by being an "over priced gimmick" or even the lowest priced bidder. KUSA firearms are 100% made in the USA by American workers in Florida using newly manufactured US parts to include chrome-lined barrels, trunions, receivers, trigger groups etc.  

Don't believe me?  Look up Ian McCollum's Forgotten Weapons You Tube review of KUSA's KR 9 9mm SBR. He reviews it in great detail and describes it as a perfect semi auto copy of the 9mm Russian Vityaz submachine gun.  KUSA is known for its meticulous adherence to the original Russian specifications in all of its product offerings. IMHO, the Vitayaz/KR 9 in either full auto or semi auto will give even the famed H&K MP 5 subgun/semi SBR a run for its money any day of the week and twice on Sundays!  Eyeball the KR 9's metal lined polymer double column double feed magazines, patterned after the ultra reliable PPS 43 subgun mags, and you will understand why it runs like a scalded dog no matter what ammo you feed it.

Bottom line:  There is NO comparison between a KUSA AK firearm and any of the other companies mentioned here.  The small premium you pay for a KUSA gun is peanuts compered to the substantial upgrade in quality, reliability and finish.  BTW, each KUSA firearm is proof tested for safety and accuracy in their indoor range before being cleaned, packed and shipped to a distributor or FFL dealer.

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Give kusa a try I assumed you wanted a budget option but they seem like a pretty cool company. I like some of the package deals they offer and they definitely are more clone correct. We shoehorned the import options but I'm going to have to disagree that kusa is superior to them like mentioned above but that's moot here.


Like I said after getting back into AKs I realized I loved them because they were so cheap and they ran thousands of cheap rounds well. Now that prices are insane along with the ammo increases I might just keep a couple for fun.

I'd stay away from the century US model and riley I'm unsure about completely.

Is KUSA in anyway affiliated with Russia, Kalashnikov Group, Mikhail Kalashnikov or former Soviet factory or manufacturer?  Are they paying royalties?



So they aren't building off Russian parts or kits and are.. copying directly but not copy cats?  



And what? Care to post up the Contract number so we can look it up in Lamlinks? What did they sell? Repackaged pass-thru QD-Locks?



SBA



That's a selling point? Aren't most Century guns rocking the same rep?



I thought they where not Copy-Cats? Also, $50/mags while PSA used the cheap, plentiful and perfectly reliable Scorpion magazine.

Everything else you said is basically an advertising brochure. "known for their...", no they are not. Lots of people on this forum just shrug saying "uh, they exist.. that's all I know". Search around. Proof testing a firearm is standard practice, even Century does that.

I trust MAC to a degree but if you want the most clone correct option definitely seems to be kusa.

Great (and accurate) post my friend. My take, for what its worth, is that KUSA and PSA each have some areas of advantage.

-PSA had to design their rifles from the ground up (or close to the point DDI was at). KUSA seems to have acquired some portion of the Kalashnikov Concern technical data package from the saiga line. KUSA has the advantage in this area.

-KUSA has limited machining abilities, and lacks some in-house forging capabilities. PSA has access to (often by farming out) the most advance forging capabilities in the industry. PSA has the advantage in this area.

How about Pioneer Arms from Poland? Those are hard to find, as I have been told that they presold every one before it's unloaded from the cargo ship.

Gee Zus tap dancing Christ!  Just when I thought the bar couldn't get any lower, along comes this mention of Pioneer.  If the VSKA and C39V2 are hot garbage, Pioneer is a dumpster fire...of hot garbage.  I quite literally wouldn't buy one for use as wall art/decoration, IO for that maybe...

That's a big NO!

Not sure where you heard that whopper of a tail, but that's enough to make Pinocchio blush.

You do realize guns aren't sold that way, right?

It's a $700 Ak

Hopefully this non GD tech thread has calmed down a bit.  AKs are not made of Nth metal.  They will eventually break down if you carry them a lot and care for them little.  

I work with large numbers of foreign military AKs as a matter of course in my duties.  They are solid in quality but eventually get worn out and break.  With some of the QC improvements PSA has been making, the difference between those and PSA is that you can call or email PSA and they will fix it or refund your money.  Sure it is frustrating but whatever.  If an AK is your issue rifle then when yours dies you get issued a new one.  

I also happen to get issued fairly high end AR pattern rifles (H&K 416, KAC SR16 CQB, and the latest is the Geissele 10.3” model), and those all occasionally have issues and get replaced too.  Prob the fault of the low tier toolcraft BCGs haha.

A good quality in spec rifle from an American manufacturer is fine.  PSA seems to be over the hump on everything besides the AK74.  KUSA seems fine too.  It really is pretty simple.  Treat your AK properly and if it breaks during hard use then get it fixed or replaced.  Don’t rely on only one firearm for your life.

That's why we keep telling you to get the Yugo or WASR

Then buy some junk that will break.

Please stop calling my rifle "shit". It may be older now with a fair amount of rounds on it, but I can still hit an 8" plate at 200 yards EVERY time with it.

The only issues these days with WASR's, are cosmetic, which is very easily and cheaply fixed, once done you literally have a 100,000 round rifle.