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Posted: 7/7/2017 9:13:49 PM EDT
[#1]
AR will always be my go to rifle unless something new comes out that totally eclipses it.
but theres no reason not to buy an AK if you still find them fun. I want an AK to go with all my ARs but im too indecisive on what i want so i havent bought yet. Maybe just a wasr. |
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Posted: 7/7/2017 11:58:12 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
AR will always be my go to rifle unless something new comes out that totally eclipses it. but theres no reason not to buy an AK if you still find them fun. I want an AK to go with all my ARs but im too indecisive on what i want so i havent bought yet. Maybe just a wasr. 
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Posted: 7/8/2017 5:49:05 AM EDT
[#3]
Gun owners wrap their identity up in their favorite guns. To suggest that their favorite rifle might not be the best at something is taken as a personal insult.
Historically, the AK is one of the most important guns ever made. At one time, it was cutting edge stuff. Today, not so much. We've moved on, but the AK can't...because when you change all of the things that need changing, it's not an AK any more... Just accept it for what it is: A historic rifle, with many variations for collecting, that's fun to shoot. |
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Posted: 7/8/2017 10:11:04 AM EDT
[#4]
Very well said. "The Gun" by Chivers is a must read. It is not only a history of the AK but a history of the development of automatic small arms.
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Posted: 7/8/2017 12:12:53 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Gun owners wrap their identity up in their favorite guns. To suggest that their favorite rifle might not be the best at something is taken as a personal insult. Historically, the AK is one of the most important guns ever made. At one time, it was cutting edge stuff. Today, not so much. We've moved on, but the AK can't...because when you change all of the things that need changing, it's not an AK any more... Just accept it for what it is: A historic rifle, with many variations for collecting, that's fun to shoot. my only 2 AK's left are both SBR krinks, 545 and 762. krinks are the pinnacle of the AK. compact and not velocity dependent. great truck guns. i'm still undecided as to which rifle i would grab, if it was only one and had to run on foot, krink or AR? rifles are like a bag of golf clubs though. a different stick for different jobs. |
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Posted: 7/8/2017 11:18:41 PM EDT
[#6]
My guess is that 99.999% of ARFCom folks will never have to think about "pick a rifle for the mission."
But they probably do in their fantasy world, or when playing Call of Duty. |
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Posted: 7/8/2017 11:33:41 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
My guess is that 99.999% of ARFCom folks will never have to think about "pick a rifle for the mission." But they probably do in their fantasy world, or when playing Call of Duty. 
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Posted: 7/8/2017 11:53:35 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You mean there won't be SHTF where I have to grab my go to rifle, protect the neighborhood, do building searches...at night because that's when they mostly come out, get into one gun battle after another against hordes of bad guys, using the 20k rounds of ammo I have, and 200 mags? THE HELL YOU SAY.
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Posted: 7/9/2017 12:22:47 AM EDT
[#9]
Wise move in switching platforms. AR is the logical choice if you live in America due to the decreasing costs, increasing quality, and growing availability of parts and ammo. The AK has gone the opposite direction in recent years. I would still keep one personal AK on hand "just in case," no need to get rid of every last one; this isn't some breakup or religious conversion.
The only caveat is you must have good ARs. I know a guy who was "AK all the way" and finally decided to buy an AR as a carbine course required it, but it was an off-brand crappy thing with cycling problems and he felt vindicated that ARs were fragile P.O.S. just like he believed. Took a while but eventually he gave it another try with a better AR and saw the light. Right now I'd only recommend AK for those wanting deeper penetration using slightly cheaper ammo in more extreme sand/ice/mud conditions, at the expense of the platform being a pain in the ass in every other way compared to the AR. If someone in Alaska says he's getting an Arsenal as a truck gun / bear gun, I'd say go for it. If a neighbor here in the lower 48 says he's getting into prepping and home defense, I would definitely say AR over AK. |
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Posted: 7/9/2017 12:57:09 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Wise move in switching platforms. AR is the logical choice if you live in America due to the decreasing costs, increasing quality, and growing availability of parts and ammo. The AK has gone the opposite direction in recent years. I would still keep one personal AK on hand "just in case," no need to get rid of every last one; this isn't some breakup or religious conversion. The only caveat is you must have good ARs. I know a guy who was "AK all the way" and finally decided to buy an AR as a carbine course required it, but it was an off-brand crappy thing with cycling problems and he felt vindicated that ARs were fragile P.O.S. just like he believed. Took a while but eventually he gave it another try with a better AR and saw the light. Right now I'd only recommend AK for those wanting deeper penetration using slightly cheaper ammo in more extreme sand/ice/mud conditions, at the expense of the platform being a pain in the ass in every other way compared to the AR. If someone in Alaska says he's getting an Arsenal as a truck gun / bear gun, I'd say go for it. If a neighbor here in the lower 48 says he's getting into prepping and home defense, I would definitely say AR over AK. AR has many advantages over an AK 
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Posted: 7/9/2017 4:37:04 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Wise move in switching platforms. AR is the logical choice if you live in America due to the decreasing costs, increasing quality, and growing availability of parts and ammo. The AK has gone the opposite direction in recent years. I would still keep one personal AK on hand "just in case," no need to get rid of every last one; this isn't some breakup or religious conversion. The only caveat is you must have good ARs. I know a guy who was "AK all the way" and finally decided to buy an AR as a carbine course required it, but it was an off-brand crappy thing with cycling problems and he felt vindicated that ARs were fragile P.O.S. just like he believed. Took a while but eventually he gave it another try with a better AR and saw the light. Right now I'd only recommend AK for those wanting deeper penetration using slightly cheaper ammo in more extreme sand/ice/mud conditions, at the expense of the platform being a pain in the ass in every other way compared to the AR. If someone in Alaska says he's getting an Arsenal as a truck gun / bear gun, I'd say go for it. If a neighbor here in the lower 48 says he's getting into prepping and home defense, I would definitely say AR over AK. |
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Posted: 7/9/2017 5:52:39 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
AK is good for cheap shooting.....and keeping skills up...at least one AK in every mans tool box.  ..... There is nothing about the AK platform that is cheaper than the AR nowadays. |
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Posted: 7/9/2017 5:53:44 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Every firearms enthusiast should own at least one AK. |
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Posted: 7/9/2017 5:56:59 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Not to mention shoot thru hard targets like car doors or glass at oblique angles . 556 deflects badly Not to mention that there are several modern loads available for 5.56 that don't perform all that badly through auto glass. |
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Posted: 7/9/2017 6:04:35 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I doubt that, brother. I'm running a BCM 11.5" suppressed and it works like a charm with brass case/full power stuff, but the Russian steel case I find to be underpowered and dirty, for the reasons stipulated. That's been my experience, so, like I said, I'm not in a position to have to worry or think twice about paying 5-7 cents more per round. Glad it is working out for you though. |
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Posted: 7/9/2017 7:18:20 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Not really.....at least anymore. The cheapest AKs you'll find nowadays are at minimum a few hundred dollars more than the cheapest AR you can find. Cheapest ammo is comparable between platforms as well. There is nothing about the AK platform that is cheaper than the AR nowadays. |
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Posted: 7/9/2017 8:02:44 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I would argue cost of ammo is very subjective to the area one lives in. With the cost of ammo in Alaska (and not being able to ship ammo to our doors) the AK is one of the cheapest semi auto intermediate caliber weapons to shoot available. |
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Posted: 7/9/2017 9:27:46 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'd rather have both "both". |
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Posted: 7/9/2017 9:34:31 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
My guess is that 99.999% of ARFCom folks will never have to think about "pick a rifle for the mission." But they probably do in their fantasy world, or when playing Call of Duty. most humans aren't very good are preparing for low probability-high impact scenarios. |
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Posted: 7/9/2017 10:38:39 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'd rather have both
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Posted: 7/10/2017 2:04:32 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You can't find cheap .223 locally? It's not the cheapest way to do it, but I can still find cheap steel case .223 locally (roughly the same price as cheap local 7.62x39), although I'm still better off buying online. |
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Posted: 7/10/2017 3:32:31 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I actually don't remember seeing case quantities available anywhere. I bet you I could if I looked but I'm not interested in romping all over town just to find shitty ammo. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
You can't find cheap .223 locally? It's not the cheapest way to do it, but I can still find cheap steel case .223 locally (roughly the same price as cheap local 7.62x39), although I'm still better off buying online. |
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Posted: 7/10/2017 1:54:24 PM EDT
[#23]
Walmart around here carries Tulammo pretty cheap. I only bought one box to see how it is and if it will function. It was only like 4.99 and it was the cheapest .223 I've seen anywhere in a while. Heck even the wolf I see is usually 10 bucks a box of 20 for steel cased wolf. I'm not sure what the deal is with that.
I see some deals online, but it's rare that there is free shipping. The one place I feel like I got the best deal was XM193 from PSA with free shipping, limit was like 10 boxes of 20 rounders. I think they were 6.99 each. Not sure if they're running that deal still. But seems like some people talk about cheap ammo online but then doesn't say how much they pay for shipping. I did buy a 150 round box of XM193 from Walmart that wasn't horribly expensive. But I forget how much it was now. It wasn't super cheap either. It's came in a box I had never seen before. Loose rounds: 
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Posted: 7/10/2017 7:28:43 PM EDT
[#24]
never mind
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Posted: 7/10/2017 8:20:25 PM EDT
[#25]
Describes my experience perfectly. I went through the AK phase and realized that as an American, I'm better off with a quality AR. Sold my AK's and picked up a 6920 at the historical low prices. I put on a Colt A2 carry handle, but tomorrow I'm going to have to TRY to rebuild it as the elevation wheel detent is not clicking and locking thus it climbs up to 400-500 meters setting over the course of a 20 round mag. I've explored all the alternative sighting systems but I want to stick with the A2 carry handle once I iron this one out or replace it. I have a Colt replacement bolt in the grip as well as a firing pin (magpul core). I really wanted a spare bolt for my AK but head spacing issues turned me off. I'm going to throw a surefire scout light on a thorntail mount and devote the rest of the budget on training and ammo. I want to start out with Valor Ridge although Camden is 90 minutes from me. I took Yeager's spare bolt recommendation to heart. I feel that it just makes more sense to devote my limited to resources to a rifle that has more domestic support for parts and ammo. My C39V2 shot very well and it felt like a quality piece, but the cast parts through me off. Now I have a military grade weapon (I know there is better than milspec out there)- Russian mil spec is harder to come by and much harder to support. I can go to a drawer and rebuild all my glocks. I wanted the same ease of service in my rifle as well. You can't do that with an AK without much more expertise and way much more $$ in support equipment.
I don't knock anyone for their decision, but these are just the concerns that were important to ME and swayed me over from the combloc weaponry. I'm of the growing opinion that AK's are much more accurate than given credit, and PROPER AR's are much more reliable and robust than are often given credit. |
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Posted: 7/10/2017 9:01:39 PM EDT
[#26]
Wait, are we pretending that the AR is the perfect weapons system again? lol. Neither of these guns are perfect. Folding stock options are way better on the AK. Ammo is cheaper. Like I said before, "both" is always always ALWAYS the answer. I've got some pretty awesome ARs, and that has no bearing on whether or not I own AKs...or any other kind of gun. Neither is my go-to (Tavor), so it's all good.
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Posted: 7/11/2017 2:08:23 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:Are we pretending that the AR is the perfect weapons system again? |
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Posted: 7/11/2017 2:13:11 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Some of the replies and lofty expectations of these rounds crack me up. 5.56, 5.45, and 7.62 X 39 are all varmint rounds. They are military rounds because they do things just well enough. Wounding is a practice that is sought out for some reason. Many of the larger countries have a certain ethic and take care of fallen combatants, too bad most of the people in the third world don't always hold the same standards. |
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Posted: 7/11/2017 3:24:45 PM EDT
[#29]
Yeah, I'm sure when they went hunting for Bin Laden they were just trying to wound him with their MK18's.
  Or whatever variant of the M4 they used. No, in fact they dumped their American guns and picked up the AK's on the ground because they wanted to make sure they killed him. LOL.
Could you just hear it in the arms room, "Oh, we actually want to kill our enemies on this mission? We better bust out the M14's or grab some AK's...." I mean seriously. |
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Posted: 7/11/2017 3:36:19 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:No we are not. But if you can not engage in an intelligent discussion debating if the AR is the better choice then perhaps you might want to sit this one out rather than trying to set up a straw man. 1st place: Both Last Place: one of the two |
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Posted: 7/13/2017 9:49:17 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That myth has been busted a long time ago. Nobody is looking to wound their enemy. I can't believe people still regurgitate that bullshit. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Some of the replies and lofty expectations of these rounds crack me up. 5.56, 5.45, and 7.62 X 39 are all varmint rounds. They are military rounds because they do things just well enough. Wounding is a practice that is sought out for some reason. Many of the larger countries have a certain ethic and take care of fallen combatants, too bad most of the people in the third world don't always hold the same standards. Stupidity abounds, no? |
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Posted: 7/13/2017 10:53:06 PM EDT
[#32]
It is a myth that wounding is the intent...it's not a myth that 556 is marginal. Not saying I'm anti 556, I use it in my shtf gun, butt for a rifle caliber it's definitely on the lower end of things. It's light weight so you can carry a lot, and that feature clearly played a major role in it's adoption relative to terminal performance.
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Posted: 7/17/2017 2:49:06 PM EDT
[#33]
I made the switch from AK to AR after the Obama-based price shenanigans settled down, sold most of my AKs and started buying and building ARs.
Before the sunset of the 1994 AWB, ARs were very expensive. AKs were cheap and plentiful, ammo and mags were everywhere, and in those days, the availability of cheap imported AK parts kits meant a lot of guys could build their own AKs, which was great because let's face it, for most of us, guns are a hobby, not a daily necessity, and building guns is fun and absorbs a lot of time. The combination of the decision to ban importation of non-sporting barrels (such as those included in AK parts kits) and the unprecedented flood of low cost, high quality AR parts into the market due to the sunset of the 1994 ban and the panic manufacturing that continued through the Obama administration and then fear of a Clinton administration, has pretty much sounded the death knell for the AK vs the AR. You can now buy a decent AR for less money than the junkiest AK. Ammo is very nearly the same price. There is just no reason financially to go to the AK when the AR is where it is today. |
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Posted: 7/17/2017 4:27:41 PM EDT
[#34]
The AR has always been my "go-to" rifle in most scenarios I can think of except where there is the possibility of running into bears.
 We don't have that problem in these parts though but if I lived in Alaska, I would prefer an AK. .30 cal man. 
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Posted: 7/17/2017 4:33:46 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I made the switch from AK to AR after the Obama-based price shenanigans settled down, sold most of my AKs and started buying and building ARs. Before the sunset of the 1994 AWB, ARs were very expensive. AKs were cheap and plentiful, ammo and mags were everywhere, and in those days, the availability of cheap imported AK parts kits meant a lot of guys could build their own AKs, which was great because let's face it, for most of us, guns are a hobby, not a daily necessity, and building guns is fun and absorbs a lot of time. The combination of the decision to ban importation of non-sporting barrels (such as those included in AK parts kits) and the unprecedented flood of low cost, high quality AR parts into the market due to the sunset of the 1994 ban and the panic manufacturing that continued through the Obama administration and then fear of a Clinton administration, has pretty much sounded the death knell for the AK vs the AR. You can now buy a decent AR for less money than the junkiest AK. Ammo is very nearly the same price. There is just no reason financially to go to the AK when the AR is where it is today. |
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Posted: 7/17/2017 8:52:38 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
In our training classes we are shooting steel at 25 yards or so....the 5.56 is hard on them. Anyone who doesn't understand this probably never will. Shooting steel inside 50y (really 75y) is stupid. A round has enough velocity to mess you up if it decides to come back. |
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Posted: 7/17/2017 8:54:18 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So, given this is ARFCOM not AKCOM, I'd like to hear from more folks on this. Soaking up the collective wisdom, etc.
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Posted: 7/18/2017 2:16:47 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It is a myth that wounding is the intent...it's not a myth that 556 is marginal. Not saying I'm anti 556, I use it in my shtf gun, butt for a rifle caliber it's definitely on the lower end of things. It's light weight so you can carry a lot, and that feature clearly played a major role in it's adoption relative to terminal performance. In such a scenario a lightweight round, flying super fast is king. One that has exceptional terminal performance? Like M193 did in the M16 and M855A1 does now in the M4A1...yeah it's practically the perfect guns shooting the perfect round for the combat engagements it was designed for. The AR-15 and 5.56 is the culmination of everything we learned from history in regards to small arms engagements with infantry soldiers. |
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Posted: 7/18/2017 2:24:34 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Thank God companies like BA and Faxon came along and started creating barrels for 5.45 and 7.62x39 so that we could go shoot those cartridges in the platform we do like |
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Posted: 7/18/2017 9:50:42 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
One has to understand that every infantry engagement against equal nations has historically been 300M or less. The majority of engagements in Iraq were also sub 300M, and I would argue a lot of engagements even in Afghanistan have happened within 300M. In such a scenario a lightweight round, flying super fast is king. One that has exceptional terminal performance? Like M193 did in the M16 and M855A1 does now in the M4A1...yeah it's practically the perfect guns shooting the perfect round for the combat engagements it was designed for. The AR-15 and 5.56 is the culmination of everything we learned from history in regards to small arms engagements with infantry soldiers. |
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Posted: 7/18/2017 11:07:17 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Speed is good, but it's not everything (otherwise we'd prolly send the troops out with 204 Ruger or some kind of .17). Mass is part of the equation, especially once you get into strong wind or certain barriers. Light and fast is unpredictable at times too, which is why some people claimed that 220 Swift was a great animal stopper back in the day. In some cases it is, in others not so much. Plenty of people have been killed with 556, so obviously it can be effective, I just think it's weight savings trump other potential deficiencies. If I had to be shot by either 556 or 308, I'd take 556, not that I think 308 is the "perfect" infantry caliber. Somewhere in the 6mm range there will someday be the perfect cal. I personally don't think we are "there" yet. We keep creeping up in bullet weight looking for perfect...55...62...77...and the 556 case / m4 mag is running out of ability to push still heavier bullets. With a 6mm, 80+gr pills would be no problemo. You could have the mass they appear to want AND the velocity that makes 556 useful at the same time with minimal increase in cartridge weight. M855A1 practically explodes in soft tissue. |
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Posted: 7/18/2017 2:24:37 PM EDT
[#42]
I bought an AK first and have more AK's than AR's so Im in the boat of more tools in the toolbox I guess...
I like how Handy my 11.5 AR pistol is compared to say..my Yugo Opap...but your comparing apples to...grapefruit...barrel length...caliber..etc... Saying one is better than the other is like Mustang Vs. Corvette...whatever... They are different. Plain and simple. That being said from a financial or investment standpoint I think you should of already gotten or should grab an AK... I fear all imports are eventually going to be banned or cut off. And you guys that aren't familiar with ammo prices...just check out wikiammo..... Steel case stuff in bulk ordered online shipped to your door is about 23 cents a round ...sometimes cheaper...sometimes more. This being the case for .223/5.45/and 7.62x39 And you guys saying steel case chokes up your gun etc...I've put over 500 rounds of steel case through my PSA CHF 14.5 AR and never had issues...and this is also with barely cleaning..in fact I really haven't... I lubed the BCG with Froglube and haven't touched it since really. If I couldn't shoot cheap steel case ammo through my AR I probably would've dumped it by now. That being said I also reload and like testing stuff out so...whatever... Holes in paper guys...holes in paper... |
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