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Posted: 12/29/2020 10:49:01 AM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I personally do not feel that my NX8 is too bulky for what it is. It offers 200% more magnification than common ACOG's, and it offers a true 1x aiming experience as well as the fact that replacing batteries is easier than replacing tritium for the end user. https://scontent-dfw5-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/133731142_10100342262796011_2331271543599615500_o.jpg?_nc_cat=101&ccb=2&_nc_sid=dbeb18&_nc_ohc=O5cyTLNbTyYAX8k6M9C&_nc_ht=scontent-dfw5-1.xx&oh=a7ea10653c3440b7f3840a7e17c5feae&oe=600F4167 I would like the simplicity of the ACOG, but it lacks magnification, and it lacks a suitable 1x aiming experience, as I do not like the RMR's (exposed emitters, short battery life, lose zero when you replace the battery, etc.) How tall is that capped turret? Would you be able to mount a mini red dot with the Badger C1 ARC without an additional riser and still have a (mostly) clear sight picture below the centered dot? Optics are more interesting to me than the weapons themselves these days because it's a very interesting and complex problem to solve when searching for the most versatile/capable setup possible. Jon Dufresne (Kinetic Consulting, mochabear_actual) recently posted a video discussing the pros and cons of mounting a mini red dot offset to or on top of a LPVO. This is something worth exploring. I'm aware of the common complaints of the NX8's optical design limitations...but what if it wasn't used as a LPVO per se, but more like a variable 3-8x ACOG? Coupled with a top-mounted mini red dot that has a closed emitter, decent battery life with easy battery access, and a reticle that provides more reference points to help compensate for the height over bore issue, this may be "the way." I like the 1.93 height for a LPVO at 1x, but a 1.54 (or even a little lower) mount would be perfectly acceptable when more precision is needed and bring the red dot down to an acceptable level. The Vortex 1-10 seems like the obvious choice now, but it would sure be nice if the little Night Force could do everything necessary to 400ish yards with its form factor on a compact AR. |
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Posted: 12/30/2020 11:54:20 AM EDT
[#2]
My current line up:
 If I could only have one it’s TA33/RMR 
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Posted: 12/30/2020 6:22:51 PM EDT
[#3]
 Had a TA-11 for about a year or so... took a 3 day carbine class with a burrowed T-1 Aimpoint back in 2008  When I got home, I sold the ACOG and bought a T-1  Never got the ACOG love... an optic that was only good as a General Issue Optic where they needed 4X magnification that could stand up to abuse. Sucked at CQB ranges (Why folks mounted RDS's on top of them). Now with LVPO's, it makes no sense to buy one. and Trijicon is getting fat off the .Gov Teat, so innovation is non-existent. |
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Posted: 12/30/2020 6:53:51 PM EDT
[#4]
I'm still using my TA01 ACOG because it has consistently worked, been reliable and durable to the point of being boring. Simply put, the zero doesn't shift, and it always works. After about 20 years I did send it back in to have the tritium refreshed, but that is to be expected after that much time.
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Posted: 12/31/2020 10:03:22 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Sucked at CQB ranges (Why folks mounted RDS's on top of them). Now with LVPO's, it makes no sense to buy one. and Trijicon is getting fat off the .Gov Teat, so innovation is non-existent. It sucked at cqb ranges for you because you didn't know how to use it. A lpvo is a completely different class of optic so saying "it makes no sense to buy one" is like saying "it makes no sense to buy a truck" because you specifically don't need one. They got fat off the gov for good reason. |
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Posted: 12/31/2020 10:17:15 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: How tall is that capped turret? Would you be able to mount a mini red dot with the Badger C1 ARC without an additional riser and still have a (mostly) clear sight picture below the centered dot? |
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Posted: 12/31/2020 10:17:39 AM EDT
[#7]
I am blind. I have to have an adjustable diopter.
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Posted: 12/31/2020 12:47:56 PM EDT
[#8]
I have one of the 4x LEDs on a 11.5". I like it. My only complaint would be the eye relief, or lack thereof. I have it mounted on the rear most position of the upper. Regardless, I've taken a couple three day carbine classes with it and never had any issues with it. Even at up close ranges (10') it wasn't a problem... in fact, the BDC made it super easy to compensate.
I'd buy another. |
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Posted: 12/31/2020 5:58:23 PM EDT
[#9]
Quoted: It sucked at cqb ranges for you because you didn't know how to use it. A lpvo is a completely different class of optic so saying "it makes no sense to buy one" is like saying "it makes no sense to buy a truck" because you specifically don't need one. They got fat off the gov for good reason. You misread me, what I was trying to say is that now With LVPO's, it makes no sense to buy a Trijicon. And I've got just a wee bit of time behind an ACOG.... Apparently Every guy in SOCOM, who mounts a RDS on a ACOG, doesn't know how to use one either... Perhaps the Coast Guard is more up to speed on small arms... |
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Posted: 12/31/2020 7:07:32 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You misread me, what I was trying to say is that now With LVPO's, it makes no sense to buy a Trijicon. And I've got just a wee bit of time behind an ACOG.... Apparently Every guy in SOCOM, who mounts a RDS on a ACOG, doesn't know how to use one either... Perhaps the Coast Guard is more up to speed on small arms... I didn't say anything about a mounted rmr on an acog. Acogs were being used effectively for a lot longer, and by a lot more troops, without an rmr on top. And I actually never used an acog in the CG (and to my knowledge no one in the CG does). We had eotechs and aimpoints. And at work I have an aimpoint. I'd take my acogs over all of those options everytime. When you know how to use them they are much more capable. |
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Posted: 12/31/2020 8:38:56 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What do you ACOG owners think of the Trijicon Accupoint? Lots of the benefits of the ACOG in an LPVO package. Weighs 50% more than my TA01, and doesn't have the track record. |
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Posted: 12/31/2020 9:39:41 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I didn't say anything about a mounted rmr on an acog. Acogs were being used effectively for a lot longer, and by a lot more troops, without an rmr on top. And I actually never used an acog in the CG (and to my knowledge no one in the CG does). We had eotechs and aimpoints. And at work I have an aimpoint. I'd take my acogs over all of those options everytime. When you know how to use them they are much more capable. Unless the reticle is a blur to you because you cannot focus it. |
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Posted: 12/31/2020 10:25:22 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Works fine with a Geissele / Reptilla ROF90, NX-8 capped turrets and RMR. Mind describing what you mean by "works fine?" Just trying to get a feel for how you use it and what kind of shooting you do mostly. I went all Ricky Bobby yesterday using extrapolated measurements from internet pictures and my ASU ruler. (NX8 capped turret estimated to be about 21mm high from the top of the tube.) With the lowest acceptable NX8 mounting solution I could find (Badger rings, 1.125"), the RMR reticle is still about 2.8" above the receiver and 4" above the bore. This is consistent with Dufresne's claimed HoB of about 4.25" with his Razor G3/Spuhr setup. I even used a whiteboard to sketch out scale representations of the P4Xi at 1.93, UH-1 at 2.26, and this NX8 combo for comparison purposes. Not sure if the juice is worth the squeeze for that, compared to the canted setup option. |
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Posted: 12/31/2020 11:57:26 PM EDT
[#14]
Quoted: I didn't say anything about a mounted rmr on an acog. Acogs were being used effectively for a lot longer, and by a lot more troops, without an rmr on top. And I actually never used an acog in the CG (and to my knowledge no one in the CG does). We had eotechs and aimpoints. And at work I have an aimpoint. I'd take my acogs over all of those options everytime. When you know how to use them they are much more capable. You act like the Bindon Aiming concept Is like using the force and once you master it, the ACOG is magic in your hands. Keeping both eyes open is not a new principle.... I know how to use one, they still suck at CQB. They'll work in a pinch, but there are way better options. They suck at CQB, which is why everyone puts RDS's on them. But you do you, I'll stick with Red dots. |
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Posted: 1/1/2021 12:14:50 AM EDT
[#15]
Relevant, Bindon Aiming Concept in action:
 Trijicon ACOG and Offset Red Dot Review |
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Posted: 1/1/2021 1:49:25 AM EDT
[#16]
He just doesn't know how to use his ACOG...
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Posted: 1/1/2021 6:23:19 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: He just doesn't know how to use his ACOG... Well.... when you come on here crying about how you "dOnT hAvE AcOg lOvE" and "iT mAkEs nO sEnSe tO bUy aN aCoG" because you can't use it effectively, what do you expect? Oh yea..... ?? (you like emojis) |
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Posted: 1/1/2021 8:05:12 PM EDT
[#18]
Quoted: Well.... when you come on here crying about how you "dOnT hAvE AcOg lOvE" and "iT mAkEs nO sEnSe tO bUy aN aCoG" because you can't use it effectively, what do you expect? Oh yea..... ?? (you like emojis) Did you even watch the video? The ACOG by itself was slower then the other options. News Flash, I can make just about any firearm and optic work for me if I have too.... I prefer to choose better options... 
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Posted: 1/1/2021 9:43:46 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Did you even watch the video? The ACOG by itself was slower then the other options. And that POA/POI offset. Let me guess...cOmBaT AcCuRaTe FoR fIgHtInG! |
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Posted: 1/1/2021 10:56:16 PM EDT
[#20]
TA31 (ACSS) because it's magnification at half the weight of an LPVO and is daylight-bright without batteries.
ACOG is only slow if you're trying to focus through the tube at close range. If you can shoot both eyes open and superimpose what your eyes see, it can be used like a red dot. The POA/POI shift when doing that is 1"-2" max at 25 yards for me. Good enough for CQB distances. Can't say the same for the TA33, which was way off with my eyes. If you're doing acrobatic contortionist John Wick stuff at square range distances a red dot will be superior with the eye box and eye relief. An RMR mounted on top isn't necessary for CQB but helps if you're wearing a gas mask or trying to passive aim with NODs. |
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Posted: 1/1/2021 11:48:57 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: TA31 (ACSS) because it's magnification at half the weight of an LPVO and is daylight-bright without batteries. Quote HistoryQuoted: TA31 (ACSS) because it's magnification at half the weight of an LPVO and is daylight-bright without batteries. The TA31 ACSS is listed at 15.8oz. There are some highly regarded LPVOs with more magnification (twice as much, in some cases) that list within a couple ounces more. While the non-battery ACOG setup briefs well, I would want the LED version, bringing it to 18oz. You do need a mount for a variable scope, but there are very robust options for around 7oz or even less. About half a pound more than the ACOG for considerably more capability at CQB range and distance. ACOG is only slow if you're trying to focus through the tube at close range. If you can shoot both eyes open and superimpose what your eyes see, it can be used like a red dot. The POA/POI shift when doing that is 1"-2" max at 25 yards for me. Good enough for CQB distances. Can't say the same for the TA33, which was way off with my eyes. Interesting. I'm wondering if the 1.5" of listed eye relief of the TA31 makes the difference. |
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Posted: 1/1/2021 11:57:26 PM EDT
[#22]
This is a trick question. Pair any ACOG with an offset RMR and it is superior to any LPVO you can buy.
No better setup on planet earth. |
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Posted: 1/2/2021 12:38:30 AM EDT
[#23]
@DDS87
The TA31 is about 10oz. naked. With my ADM 1.93” mount it totals at about 13oz. There is not a lpvo near the same weight with mount. The 15.8oz. is with Trijicon’s boat anchor mount. |
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Posted: 1/2/2021 12:48:03 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: @DDS87 The TA31 is about 10oz. naked. With my ADM 1.93” mount it totals at about 13oz. There is not a lpvo near the same weight with mount. The 15.8oz. is with Trijicon’s boat anchor mount. That's fair, didn't realize that about the stock mount. Still not a compromise I would be willing to make, but thanks for clearing that up. |
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Posted: 1/2/2021 1:53:39 PM EDT
[#25]
All good. I think both optics (ACOG and LPVO) have their respective places. I see an ACOG better suited for a utilitarian role and the LPVO for a designated Recce rifle.
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Posted: 1/2/2021 3:43:50 PM EDT
[#26]
ACOG's are ideal for general issue to soldiers, law enforcement and home defense for increasing hit probability at longer range without learning come-ups. I own a few. The 3x30 and 3x35 crosshairs are the best for precision shooting, the horseshoe reticle is the best all around. The donut reticle is the worst because it obscures too much of the target. The 4X ACOG's have the worst crosshair because they added a 200 yard hashmark that interferes with the main crosshairs when sighting.
The 3.5x35 is the best all around model because of the increased eye relief. It's heavier and larger than the others, so that's it's Achille's heal. Precision rifles deserve a variable powered scope with more magnification. |
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Posted: 1/2/2021 5:48:39 PM EDT
[#27]
I had a TA-31 in Iraq.
I kinda want another one, with weight being the main reason. |
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Posted: 1/2/2021 10:38:39 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Mind describing what you mean by "works fine?" Just trying to get a feel for how you use it and what kind of shooting you do mostly. I went all Ricky Bobby yesterday using extrapolated measurements from internet pictures and my ASU ruler. (NX8 capped turret estimated to be about 21mm high from the top of the tube.) With the lowest acceptable NX8 mounting solution I could find (Badger rings, 1.125"), the RMR reticle is still about 2.8" above the receiver and 4" above the bore. This is consistent with Dufresne's claimed HoB of about 4.25" with his Razor G3/Spuhr setup. I even used a whiteboard to sketch out scale representations of the P4Xi at 1.93, UH-1 at 2.26, and this NX8 combo for comparison purposes. Not sure if the juice is worth the squeeze for that, compared to the canted setup option. Physically the RMR dot clears the turret, but about 1/3-1/4 of the lower RMR window is obscured by the capped NX-8 turret. I also have an NX-8 with adjustable elevation and that turret looks a tad higher but I think it would still work. But shooting as one should (both eyes open), it's a non-issues to see the dot / align on targets, etc. I also have a similar setup with an NXS 2.5-10x24. Obviously the RMR is high up there, but I sync the zero up at 100 yards. Yes, you need to hold 3" high up close, but from 25-75 it rapidly drops off to 2-1" high. Even so, I'm a simpleton and I if I hold POA, 2-3" low POI is still a hit if needed, as it's not my primary sighting optic (unless I'm using NOD passively). But still it's a hit. My primary use for the RMR is (1) NODs, (2) Backup to the NX-8 and (3) driving the gun to targets at long range then dropping to the magnified optic, instead of searching through the soda straw or having to dial up the mag. I really like the setup and it's actually pretty fast to get go RMR by moving your head straight up from the NX-8. I also run offset irons, so I have that as well. I dislike only have optics with the humidity in my area which can fog over optics quickly, hence the offset irons. Like everything else, it's trade offs and what you want to do with a setup. |
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Posted: 1/2/2021 11:27:25 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Physically the RMR dot clears the turret, but about 1/3-1/4 of the lower RMR window is obscured by the capped NX-8 turret. I also have an NX-8 with adjustable elevation and that turret looks a tad higher but I think it would still work. But shooting as one should (both eyes open), it's a non-issues to see the dot / align on targets, etc. I also have a similar setup with an NXS 2.5-10x24. Obviously the RMR is high up there, but I sync the zero up at 100 yards. Yes, you need to hold 3" high up close, but from 25-75 it rapidly drops off to 2-1" high. Even so, I'm a simpleton and I if I hold POA, 2-3" low POI is still a hit if needed, as it's not my primary sighting optic (unless I'm using NOD passively). But still it's a hit. My primary use for the RMR is (1) NODs, (2) Backup to the NX-8 and (3) driving the gun to targets at long range then dropping to the magnified optic, instead of searching through the soda straw or having to dial up the mag. I really like the setup and it's actually pretty fast to get go RMR by moving your head straight up from the NX-8. I also run offset irons, so I have that as well. I dislike only have optics with the humidity in my area which can fog over optics quickly, hence the offset irons. Like everything else, it's trade offs and what you want to do with a setup. Right on, thanks for that. Definitely with you on the irons/humidity issue. I've had days in the PNW where I had to QD a LPVO and then a red dot after it because of the weather. It's not a reliability issue with optics at that point, just a being-able-to-see-and-aim issue. |
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Posted: 1/3/2021 12:11:13 AM EDT
[#30]
I used to be a TA31 user. Was comfortable with them and they worked fine for me and did what I wanted. Then about 3 years ago I shot a bit with a TA33 and picked one up to use on my primary rifle. Fell in love with it. I still have a few TA31s around but given the option I'd take a TA33 any day of the week over my 31s. Smaller, lighter, and a much larger eye box but you do give up a bit of FOV and 1x magnification. But the glass is still top notch so I barely even notice the drop from 4x to 3.
Need to scoop one up for my 7.62x39 AR, currently using a TA31RCOA4 on there that I bought for a projected M16A4 clone that I never got around to building. |
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