User Panel
User Panel
User Panel
|
Posted: 5/17/2017 2:34:58 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
These are not my photos. However, let me add that I also am having very significant problems with my trigger. I'm going to keep it vague until fostech has addressed the issue. I don't want them to cut me off. http://imageshack.com/a/img924/5164/aycIjg.jpg http://imageshack.com/a/img922/1120/uSJDFz.jpg 
WTF happened? |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/17/2017 2:43:19 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Sounds like QC is out the door on these, reports getting worse by the day. I may wait a awhile before buying one. |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/17/2017 3:45:17 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
WTF happened? 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/17/2017 3:55:45 PM EDT
[#4]
So mine was delivered last week and am now wondering if I should even take it out of the package based on the recent posts. Was really looking forward to installing this trigger.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/17/2017 6:36:19 PM EDT
[#5]
Cool thx for posting pics of one that failed.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/17/2017 7:18:25 PM EDT
[#6]
MIM???
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/17/2017 8:26:00 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So mine was delivered last week and am now wondering if I should even take it out of the package based on the recent posts. Was really looking forward to installing this trigger. That said, my experience has been more positive with the BFS3. I really want to try the digitrigger, but I've been warned not to. Really want to see a review first. |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/18/2017 12:54:26 AM EDT
[#8]
BFS 2 anyone? Now that is getting screwed... I actually almost bought one and fostech put there preorders up. I put a deposit on the echo and got a refund before the bfs 2 was shipped. Best thing I ever did and definately worth the wait.
 Still interested in the bfs 3 for my lar8 but will wait till I see the price drop.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/18/2017 1:04:27 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So mine was delivered last week and am now wondering if I should even take it out of the package based on the recent posts. Was really looking forward to installing this trigger. |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/18/2017 10:27:53 PM EDT
[#10]
Anyone have any advice on how to polish/fix the selector?
If this doesn't fix it, I'm throwing this in thing in the trash. |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/18/2017 10:42:58 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Install it and have a blast. 1600rnds 223/556 and counting without any issues. These are 'new technology' when it comes to triggers so there are always a few kinks that will need to be worked out for the early adopters. That goes for franklin armory as well which also has saftey rotation issues. Thats why u have a warranty. |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/18/2017 10:45:48 PM EDT
[#12]
Never mind
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/18/2017 10:53:01 PM EDT
[#13]
We did a group buy of these at work last year and finally got them in March. I installed all the triggers for the guys into Anderson (2), Bushmaster, RRA, Stag, and S&W (2) lowers. All work except the S&Ws. Not sure why, but the geometry is off on the Smiths where the upper won't close unless you reach in and insert a thin piece of metal, like a thin blade, and push the sear just a hair forward. Only then will the ramp on the carrier clear the back of the sear. I thought it was possibly something I had done so I swapped Fostech parts into the other rifles with no change. Both guys took them anyway knowing they'd have that extra step when they closed the lower. Once closed, the rifles dry-fired (functional checked ok).
I did notice there were a few selectors that felt terrible after I installed them, being very hard to rotate, but sloppy once in a setting. I found changing grips resolved the issue. I can't explain it. BTW, standard A2 grips seemed to work the best. Fast forward to now...one guy took his S&W to the range last week and the rifle fired full auto intermittently on the Echo setting. Semi was not a problem. Rather than take any chances, he has asked me to install the original trigger components and he will be selling the Fostech. The other guy doesn't even want to try it and I'll be converting his back as well. Can't blame them as I don't think the alphabet boys would care to hear any excuses. As for the other rifles,...no issues. |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/19/2017 12:59:24 AM EDT
[#14]
I tried reinstalling the third ECHO trigger back in the lower and encountered the same problem. I tried the same trigger in another lower and it still did the same thing. Selector 360 rotation and no functional echo mode. Im calling Fostech tomorrow.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/19/2017 3:24:05 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
...one guy took his S&W to the range last week and the rifle fired full auto intermittently on the Echo setting. Semi was not a problem. Rather than take any chances, he has asked me to install the original trigger components and he will be selling the Fostech. In other news... sounds like Fostech is well aware if the issues with the safety detent cap, and they are working on a new design. Early adoptees will likely be able to update their existing safties, at a price ($25, or so). The couple broken hammers I've seen have both been in pistol caliber lowers. Coincidence? IDK. But different forces in play in a strait blowback gun, perhaps? Either way, strange. Seeing the broken hammers, I'm about 90% confident that we're looking at a MIM part. Fostect confirmed all parts were bare/uncoated stainless steel, but would not specify the specific casting process. But again, my money is on MIM. |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/19/2017 9:12:53 AM EDT
[#16]
upgrade our faulty detent caps for $25? That's BS. They should replace them to fix the problems.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/19/2017 10:22:45 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Anyone own or frequently use a full auto M16? How would you say the experience compares to binary triggers? |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/19/2017 11:32:40 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
upgrade our faulty detent caps for $25? That's BS. They should replace them to fix the problems.The new detent cap is an entirely different design, different manufacturing process, more of a CNC part that cheap cast. FWIW, I believe the bulk of the cost in the Echo setup is intellectual property. For me, if they let owners pay $15 here, or $20 there for better parts when availible, I'm in. I want a forged/properly hardened hammer next. Better profile/longer trigger down the road. I'm sceptical of assertions that prices will come down on these anytime soon, or that they will catch up with demand. If the prices in the second-hand market are any indication of what people are willing to pay for a 'auto-like' experience, I bet they go the opposite route by improving key parts, and bumping the price up a $100 per unit to cover the more complex process/increased QC. Honestly, if these units had properly forged/CNC'd internals, they would be INCREDIBLE, cost twice as much, and people would pay. |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/19/2017 11:48:07 AM EDT
[#19]
It would be nice if I could buy replacement internal parts individually.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/19/2017 11:52:54 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So you and you friend have a trigger that you know is faulty/going full auto... and he's going to sell it off somewhere? Please tell me you are at least sending it in to Fostech for warranty repair first. |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/19/2017 12:48:17 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I bet they go the opposite route by improving key parts, and bumping the price up a $100 per unit to cover the more complex process/increased QC. Honestly, if these units had properly forged/CNC'd internals, they would be INCREDIBLE, cost twice as much, and people would pay. Also, does anyone know if m16 selectors spin 360 degrees? |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/19/2017 1:17:10 PM EDT
[#22]
Hopefully newly designed saftey/selectors are more low profile.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/19/2017 1:36:57 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The couple broken hammers I've seen have both been in pistol caliber lowers. Coincidence? IDK. But different forces in play in a strait blowback gun, perhaps? Either way, strange. Seeing the broken hammers, I'm about 90% confident that we're looking at a MIM part. Fostect confirmed all parts were bare/uncoated stainless steel, but would not specify the specific casting process. But again, my money is on MIM. Gunsafe does your hammer on your 9mm have a line on it where it hits the carrier? |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/19/2017 5:34:17 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
My impression (YMMV) is that they will fix or replace your existing detent cap with the same type of stainless MIM part, hand fitted and guaranteed to properly work free of charge, under warranty. The new detent cap is an entirely different design, different manufacturing process, more of a CNC part that cheap cast. FWIW, I believe the bulk of the cost in the Echo setup is intellectual property. For me, if they let owners pay $15 here, or $20 there for better parts when availible, I'm in. I want a forged/properly hardened hammer next. Better profile/longer trigger down the road. I'm sceptical of assertions that prices will come down on these anytime soon, or that they will catch up with demand. If the prices in the second-hand market are any indication of what people are willing to pay for a 'auto-like' experience, I bet they go the opposite route by improving key parts, and bumping the price up a $100 per unit to cover the more complex process/increased QC. Honestly, if these units had properly forged/CNC'd internals, they would be INCREDIBLE, cost twice as much, and people would pay. |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/19/2017 8:28:25 PM EDT
[#25]
Yep, a couple of months, they will be everywhere
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/20/2017 1:44:32 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
My guess would be that the 9mm blow back guns have way more bolt bounce. When the hammer drops it is slightly out of battery it hits the edge of the carrier as well as the firing pin. Do that alot and something has to give... Gunsafe does your hammer on your 9mm have a line on it where it hits the carrier? |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/20/2017 3:04:56 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It has a round area from the impact on the bolt. I noticed it while back and I hope it does not crack. I'm keeping an eye on it. |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/20/2017 7:22:31 AM EDT
[#28]
hi fellows,
just thought i`d give an update on my echo. ordered it in Aug of 2016 & received 2nd week of Apr. there have been quite a few reports on the sloppy fit of the selector among other issues but this one seems to have slipped thru on the "good" side. although the selector fit is not stiff, it is not mushy either. it moves around the arc firmly and clicks in place where its supposed to. now, i have only fired around 1K of 5.56 thru it in a combination of 3rd & semi mode but so far the hammer has not had any issues nor has the selector moved when its not supposed to. but i must say...the pics of the broken hammer have me worried. i just can`t figure out why Fos. could not have machined a spec hammer to the dimensions they needed instead of using this cast s**t. hoping mine won`t break but it looks as though its just a matter of time.
what has been the response of Fos. when a broken hammer has been returned? |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/20/2017 10:25:40 AM EDT
[#29]
Keep in mind, the GOOD FCG's are castings.
The shitty ones are MIM. 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/20/2017 10:41:48 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Did it help? I was thinking about hitting mine with a buffer wheel Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Yeah the safety selector was annoying but i took a file to it and rounded the sharp edges As far as the selector going all the way around, I believe that it is supposed to. The groove for the detent to ride in goes all the way around so of course the selector will travel all the way around. And it makes removing the selector possible. |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/20/2017 10:52:25 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Keep in mind, the GOOD FCG's are castings. The shitty ones are MIM.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/20/2017 12:32:52 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
yep, fixed. As far as the selector going all the way around, I believe that it is supposed to. The groove for the detent to ride in goes all the way around so of course the selector will travel all the way around. And it makes removing the selector possible. |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/20/2017 12:45:51 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
From what I was told by a buddy who spoke to fostech, the selector was designed to spin 360 degrees. I hate it, but just add it to the list... Two of mine do NOT spin after installation. Only the one does but it's now waiting to be returned for repair.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/20/2017 12:51:09 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So below the round impact point of the firing pin I also have a light impact line that goes accross the hammer. I assume from hitting the back of the carrier due to slow cycling or bcg bounce. It's too high to be a bolt catch hit. |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/20/2017 1:28:26 PM EDT
[#35]
Wow. Broken cast hammers. I thought they were cast iron parts when the firing pin dented the face of the hammer. Good thing I didn't spend money on another one for my next bulid. Cast iron parts are for airsoft!
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/20/2017 3:11:27 PM EDT
[#36]
For the price, the trigger should be perfect. So many issues so far, and it seems like paying customers are nothing more than beta testers. Geez...
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/20/2017 3:53:19 PM EDT
[#37]
can someone who has both sets of FCG`s ( mim & cast) post a pic side by side?
or at least one who thinks theirs is mim and another who`s is cast. kinda like to see the surface difference and such. |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/20/2017 4:36:43 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
can someone who has both sets of FCG`s ( mim & cast) post a pic side by side? or at least one who thinks theirs is mim and another who`s is cast. kinda like to see the surface difference and such. |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/20/2017 6:05:45 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I belive the parts are cast with a 200 rms or so surface finish. Don't look like mim's not smooth enough finish. Either way even s&w uses mim parts in their revolvers... which are not crap imo. I had a long conversation with Ron Power (Power Custom) about MIM parts. His thoughts are "Their CRAP!" BTW, if you don't know who Ron Power is, you don't know Smith & Wesson's. |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/22/2017 7:37:21 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Hey Muad, how's that video coming along? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Gotcha. Can you elaborate on this? Thanks for the heads up. New job is taking up too much of my time, dangit! 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/23/2017 11:32:17 AM EDT
[#41]
Will the echo trigger with modified m16 bcg work with a law tactical folder?
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/27/2017 11:51:55 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yep, a couple of months, they will be everywhere Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yep, a couple of months, they will be everywhere Quoted:
Keep in mind, the GOOD FCG's are castings. The shitty ones are MIM. Quoted:
What has been the response of Fostech when a broken hammer has been returned? Dream list for me is a CNC'd safety detent (check)... FORGED hammer (they're aware of it)... and a longer, more OEM trigger profile (too short/sharp for my liking). Fix those, and it'll be ready for prime time. |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/27/2017 1:23:24 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Not entirely true. Shitty MIM and shitty cast might as well be one in the same. Both can be made to be perfectly servicable parts. It's all a matter of how the parts are heat treated and line QC. Good MIM is just as strong as good cast. MIM exists for one reason....TO CUT COSTS! |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/27/2017 2:47:28 PM EDT
[#44]
High end merchandise always costs more and is more refined. Not always more reliable though... The more people that spend more money on custom shop guns, the more his bonus is. So of course he wants people to buy his more expensive and more refined guns.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/28/2017 1:02:30 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If what you say is true (which it isn't) Why would the Director of Smith & Wesson's Custom Shop when asked by American Hangunner state MIM may be good enough for standard Smith & Wesson's but it's not good enough for the Custom Shop! MIM exists for one reason....TO CUT COSTS! Do some research into cast versus MIM. Though it's become a dirty word for some in the firearms industry, there's nothing inherently wrong with MIM. While it is a cost saving measure when mass producing small, intricate parts, it doesn't mean that quality and strength are sacraficed if the process is properly cooled and heat treated during manufacturing. And unless you go Com-block, I bet theres less that 5% of current manufacturers NOT using it somewhere in their process. *Contrary to my earier guess, detailed inspection does sort of suggest a rough cast wish machine work after. |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/28/2017 8:44:55 AM EDT
[#46]
I know two people who have had MAJOR issues with MIM crap.
A friend of mine who does custom 1911 work was working on a Smith & Wesson 1911, he dropped the hammer on an empty chamber and the hammer snapped in half. Another friend of mine who shoots competition was shooting his Kimber in a match when the shaft snapped in half on the safety, Kimber shipped him a replacement safety, guess what.....he's practicing and it snaps in the same location. It now has a billet safety. I don't have an AR with a single MIM part, nor will I. If you chose to run them that's your problem, I won't trust my life to the crap. If you know who Ron Power is (Power Custom), he told me that MIM is the single worst thing to occur in the Firearms Industry. He stated that he won't attempt a trigger job on MIM parts. Ron Power Charter Member American Pistolsmiths Guild 1986 Pistolsmith of the Year Award Life Memberships: N.R.A 1991 Received the N.R.A Professional Public Service Award Outstanding American Handgunner 1992 Top-10 Outstanding American Handgunner Award 1996 Top-6 Outstanding American Handgunner Award 1998 Top-4 Outstanding American Handgunner Award 1999 Top-3 Outstanding American Handgunner Award Missouri Sport Shooting Association Kansas Rifle & Pistol Association Member: Handgun Hunter International American Trap Association Safari Club American Hangunners Club 100 Police Marksman Association Varmint Hunters Association Ron Power pretty much INVENTED PPC custom pistols |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/29/2017 12:17:38 AM EDT
[#47]
I think that name does ring a bell somewhere in my memory banks.
99% of all mag release buttons... bolt stop/release paddles, gas blocks are MIM in AR parts bins. I can pretty much garauntee if it was assembled with a parts kit manufactured in the last five years, your AR has some MIM parts. It's new tech. Like eveything else, it takes a bit for manufacturers who buy into it to master the process. If you didnt see my previous edit... I'm changing my bet on the Fostech stuff to cast, anywho. Way too rough to be MIM, and the machine marks are pretty clear on the seer surfaces and disconnects. As far as the broken hammers, or some showing wear upon impact w/carrier and firing pin... my guess is the heat treat wasnt quite what it should have been. But Fostech is standing by their product so far, and man is this thing simply FUN to shoot! |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/29/2017 1:38:07 AM EDT
[#48]
What do you guys think that little detent cap is cast or MIM? It's crap whichever it might be.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/31/2017 3:31:34 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What do you guys think that little detent cap is cast or MIM? It's crap whichever it might be. The only actual problem with MIM is that they are prone to shearing because of defects in their internal structure, and unlike traditional castings or forging it is nearly impossible to estimate a lifetime for the parts. It also needs to be considered that not all MIM is equivalent, there are many different alloys that can be used and like cast or forged parts the heat treat is very important. If done correctly, with the appropriate alloy and heat treat, there really isn't anything inherently bad about the MIM process other than defects being hard to detect |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/31/2017 2:32:21 PM EDT
[#50]
update with my earlier suggestion and a stiff detent spring the selector is fixed NICELY! definate clicks into s f b..(e echo) 90% as good as the milspec which is good im 100% on this now till the hammer shears off... lol
|
|
|
Win a FREE Membership!
Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!
You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.
AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types.
From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm.
Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more.
Copyright © 1996-2024 AR15.COM LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.
AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own.
