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Posted: 12/28/2017 3:19:05 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The insert is cheaper! 
Some have put a little mild thread lock in first to keep it in place for now and allow it to come out later. I want an older SP1 upper just for the rebate. ETA: It's cheaper having the front lug filled and drill then buying a new or used upper 
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Posted: 12/28/2017 4:36:19 PM EDT
[#2]
My upper arrived today and the finish on it matches the finish on my CMMG dedicated Mk9 lower. It looks way better without the forward assist and brass deflector now.
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Posted: 12/28/2017 5:28:35 PM EDT
[#3]
And if you wanted rid of the deflector that's on it now you can always put a regular port door on her.
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Posted: 12/28/2017 5:55:11 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
And if you wanted rid of the deflector that's on it now you can always put a regular port door on her. |
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Posted: 12/28/2017 6:26:53 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I think I will keep it on. I shoot left hand and don't like getting hit with hot brass. As much as I like the looks of a M16A1, I hated shooting them when I was in the service. 
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Posted: 12/28/2017 7:17:07 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I have tried that on 2 different lowers but there is always a small gap between the upper and lower and there is a gap where the upper meats the lower buffer tube area. ETA: It's cheaper having the front lug filled and drill then buying a new or used upper I've never used an adapter so I didn't know there were issues. I've gotten lucky and picked up 2 604 uppers over the last several years. Need just one more 
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Posted: 12/28/2017 10:19:28 PM EDT
[#7]
I got mine in today.
They look great. If they have any more I will order 6 more of them for later use. Thanks again for the heads up on these. Ron |
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Posted: 12/29/2017 2:23:03 AM EDT
[#8]
Mine showed up a few days ago. Looks good to me.
I always seem to be challenged when it comes to barrel nut torque. I always goober up the nut with the wrench..and sometimes nick the delta ring/slip ring. I think I over torque. |
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Posted: 12/29/2017 10:16:38 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Mine showed up a few days ago. Looks good to me. I always seem to be challenged when it comes to barrel nut torque. I always goober up the nut with the wrench..and sometimes nick the delta ring/slip ring. I think I over torque. 
Think I need a better wrench, using a Tapco one I think. It's painted with thick green paint. I might have to bite the bullet and pick one of these up. Been hemming and hawing since they popped up for sale. |
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Posted: 12/29/2017 11:28:11 AM EDT
[#10]
I tried holding out... I really did but all the pics of slick sides in this thread I couldnt resist and ordered one.
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Posted: 12/29/2017 11:29:25 AM EDT
[#11]
I do the same. I had/have the basic 2 pronged wrench and upgraded to the Brownell's one, but with a torque wrench I still can't seem to put enough pressure on the nut to keep it from slipping. Maybe I'm putting too much pressure on it. I dunno, but every time I have to install a barrel I dread it. The slot never seems to line up right. Either I torque the crap out of it, or it seems like it's not enough.
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Posted: 12/29/2017 1:39:00 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I always slip off the nut and booger up the teeth
Think I need a better wrench, using a Tapco one I think. It's painted with thick green paint. I might have to bite the bullet and pick one of these up. Been hemming and hawing since they popped up for sale. The standard 3 pin GI wrench would be better than what you currently have, but the 9 pin barrel wrenches from 2UniqueLLC are much better and made all the difference for me. |
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Posted: 12/29/2017 1:41:22 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I do the same. I had/have the basic 2 pronged wrench and upgraded to the Brownell's one, but with a torque wrench I still can't seem to put enough pressure on the nut to keep it from slipping. Maybe I'm putting too much pressure on it. I dunno, but every time I have to install a barrel I dread it. The slot never seems to line up right. Either I torque the crap out of it, or it seems like it's not enough. |
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Posted: 12/29/2017 1:58:06 PM EDT
[#14]
ETA: Never mind. I found my answer. Thanks for the link, OP.
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Posted: 12/29/2017 3:01:24 PM EDT
[#15]
What barrel wrench are you using and where are you applying the grease? |
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Posted: 12/29/2017 4:19:02 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I have the Brownell's wrench. I apply grease to the threads on the upper, but not the extension. I think you should look into the wrenches from 2UniqueLLC. As for the grease, it should also be applied to the front/FSB facing side of the barrel extension flange. Greasing the flange makes a big difference in being able to achieve alignment for the gas tube within the 30 to 80 foot pound torque spec. In the past there have been times that I forgot to grease the barrel extension flange and I was unable to get alignment going all the way up to 80 foot pounds, even with torquing the barrel nut on and off again many times. Once I realized that I forgot to grease the barrel extension flange I would take everything apart, grease the flange, and was able to obtain alignment at just over 30 foot pounds... So greasing the barrel extension flange makes a big difference. When using upper receiver vise blocks to secure the upper receiver in a Vise, forgetting to grease the barrel extension flange will cause the flange itself to become friction bound to the barrel nut. This will cause the barrel extension and barrel to move with the barrel nut and it will drive the indexing pin into the side of the indexing pin notch on the upper receiver. Once you have damaged (enlarged) the indexing pin notch your sights will have excessive windage adjustment... You could also end up shearing an indexing pin this way if you were to go any farther. Also, do not grease the receiver facing side of the barrel extension flange or the barrel extension itself, you need this area to be completely oil and grease free so that they do not move under torque... The face of the upper receiver and the barrel extension flange need to become friction bound. |
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Posted: 12/29/2017 4:52:13 PM EDT
[#17]
Thanks! I'll have to pull it apart and start again. It's one of those things that nag me to death.
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Posted: 12/29/2017 5:55:46 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Thanks! I'll have to pull it apart and start again. It's one of those things that nag me to death. I gave up installing barrels from 2005 to 2015 because I thought I was cursed. 
Good wrenches and knowing where to put the grease made all the difference for me. I'm surprised that greasing the flange isn't mentioned in the tech manuals, it's just something that had to be gleaned from the experts on the forums over the years. Some guys have still found it necessary to use barrel nut shims but I haven't found that I need them as long as I follow my procedure. |
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Posted: 12/29/2017 9:00:59 PM EDT
[#19]
If anyone would know the ins and outs of the AR, I figure I would find it here. I appreciate the advice and I ordered a wrench from 2uniquellc. Hopefully I'll stop knarling up nuts and get a feel for the process. I've built a dozens of AKs on a 12 ton press over the years, so I figure if that's no big deal then I can accomplish this!
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Posted: 12/29/2017 9:58:53 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If anyone would know the ins and outs of the AR, I figure I would find it here. I appreciate the advice and I ordered a wrench from 2uniquellc. Hopefully I'll stop knarling up nuts and get a feel for the process. I've built a dozens of AKs on a 12 ton press over the years, so I figure if that's no big deal then I can accomplish this! You can see it in use > here < starting at the 3:48 minute mark. |
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Posted: 12/29/2017 10:12:02 PM EDT
[#21]
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Posted: 12/29/2017 11:33:22 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Posted: 12/30/2017 12:12:21 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I know, this is an older video though. Some more recent short facebook videos, or maybe it was instagram show them using torque wrenches with the torque wrench compatible barrel wrench from 2Unique. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
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Posted: 12/30/2017 12:48:18 AM EDT
[#24]
In aerospace I can tell you that most torque wrenches never leave the toolbox unless FAA auditors are there. |
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Posted: 12/30/2017 12:49:21 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: In aerospace I can tell you that most torque wrenches never leave the toolbox unless FAA auditors are there. 
I have heard that some guys have a calibrated elbow... To each their own I guess. I use Snap-On torque wrenches for my work on AR15s. I know that Harbor Freight gets recommended around here a lot for torque wrenches though.
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Posted: 12/30/2017 1:28:29 AM EDT
[#26]
So I'm assuming Fulton got these as run offs for Colts 9mm uppers. I don't know why Colts markings are still on these uppers though, maybe they're rejects of some sort that were made into working uppers?
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Posted: 12/30/2017 1:40:34 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If you have the experience and "feel" for the right torque, then I can see that. If you don't have a mentor to lean on and learn from, it's better to rely on the wrench I suppose. Quote HistoryQuoted:
In aerospace I can tell you that most torque wrenches never leave the toolbox unless FAA auditors are there. Back on the subject, though. I ordered one of these and a sight kit. I'm pretty excited to get this 9mm build done. I'd never been to that site until this thread, they have some great stuff. |
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Posted: 12/30/2017 3:30:54 AM EDT
[#28]
I believe the reason these have Colt markings isn't because they are rejects but because the forging they are using has that imprinted on it. Sort of like how a keyhole symbol upper is made by cerro forge but then is finished by say Colt, or maybe Anderson etc. but it still has that keyhole symbol on it because it was there when the forge was made. But I could be wrong on this.
And after reading about the extra hole in the rear sight area I looked at my Fulton upper and it does NOT have that extra hole. It also doesn't have a C on it, it only had the later A symbol that I removed. I had another one of these uppers I bought at the same time and sold and you could see it had a slight grind mark where the C had been. I imagine mine had the C as well but was removed before anodizing, and on later runs they decided just to leave the C to save time. If I were to buy anymore of these I would just paint them with Norrells since they are already anodized black. Nothing wrong with black either... but grey just looks right. I still hate that there is no easy cheap solution to having your receivers anodized grey. |
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Posted: 12/30/2017 7:28:27 AM EDT
[#29]
I’ve never used a torque wrench for barreling an AR upper, and can’t see any good reason to use one whatsoever. There are several very valid reasons to NOT use one though; they make the task MUCH more difficult, apt to result in damage, and less precise.
First you need to apply a good grease, as outlined in detail in an earlier post. I prefer to use ARP brand moly grease, as is used for engine assembly. For the barrel nut install: You simply install the nut “lightly snug” with the wrench, then progressively loosen and tighten it 3-5 times, each time tightening the nut a little bit tighter. You keep tightening it until the NEXT NOTCH IN THE BARREL NUT is aligned with the hole in the upper receiver, meaning it’s perfectly vertical, as verified by a “no-binding” fit of the installed gas tube between the barrel nut’s teeth, that’s it. This is the EXACT POSITION that the barrel nut needs to be, REGARDLESS OF THE TORQUE VALUE! Any looser or tighter, and the barrel nut is NOT properly installed (“clocked”), since the gas tube will be binding against the barrel nut’s tooth on one side of the other. The barrel nut needs to be in an EXACT position, NOT at a specific torque value, hence the ridiculously broad torque range. No wonder some people are gouging up barrel nuts; they’re putting a wobbly-@$$ torque wrench onto something which requires strength and finesse. |
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Posted: 12/30/2017 12:47:41 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I’ve never used a torque wrench for barreling an AR upper, and can’t see any good reason to use one whatsoever. There are several very valid reasons to NOT use one though; they make the task MUCH more difficult, apt to result in damage, and less precise. First you need to apply a good grease, as outlined in detail in an earlier post. I prefer to use ARP brand moly grease, as is used for engine assembly. For the barrel nut install: You simply install the nut “lightly snug” with the wrench, then progressively loosen and tighten it 3-5 times, each time tightening the nut a little bit tighter. You keep tightening it until the NEXT NOTCH IN THE BARREL NUT is aligned with the hole in the upper receiver, meaning it’s perfectly vertical, as verified by a “no-binding” fit of the installed gas tube between the barrel nut’s teeth, that’s it. This is the EXACT POSITION that the barrel nut needs to be, REGARDLESS OF THE TORQUE VALUE! Any looser or tighter, and the barrel nut is NOT properly installed (“clocked”), since the gas tube will be binding against the barrel nut’s tooth on one side of the other. The barrel nut needs to be in an EXACT position, NOT at a specific torque value, hence the ridiculously broad torque range. No wonder some people are gouging up barrel nuts; they’re putting a wobbly-@$$ torque wrench onto something which requires strength and finesse. The most important thing to me about using the torque wrench is making sure that I am up to the 30 foot pound minimum torque spec, after that if you don't have alignment at 30 foot pounds you have to go for the next notch regardless of any torque spec. I have found that if I apply grease to the right areas that I haven't exceeded the 80 foot pound maximum of the torque spec range. So I could see that if you had a good feeling for what 30 foot pounds feels like that you probably could get away with not using a torque wrench. I also agree with your comment about "wobbly-@$$" torque wrenches causing some issues which I have found to be largely minimized by going with more expensive brands such as Snap-On, and also by eliminating the ratcheting head feature and going with fixed head models. I'm not sure if the type of grease that I use makes any sort of difference, but I have always stuck with a good moly paste. I used to use NECO Moly-Slide Paste which has 60% moly content, after that I used Brownells Barrel Assembly Paste which has 65% moly content and I currently use T.S. Moly TS-70 Moly Paste which has 70% moly content. |
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Posted: 12/30/2017 1:36:55 PM EDT
[#31]
So to m4 feed ramp or not m4 feed ramp???? What is the consensus?
I'm guessing for clone no but for " might as well" yes? |
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Posted: 12/30/2017 3:20:22 PM EDT
[#32]
I completely agree the torque wrench is unnecessary when installing an AR barrel. I don't care if someone wants to use one and understand why they do it but it's really not needed. Hitting the 30 foot pound limit is easy enough just make sure its on there tight and a tooth is lined up. I mean it's pretty self explanatory the reason 30-80 ft pounds is what is always called for. 30 is on there just tight enough that it isn't going to undo itself and go anywhere, and 80 is the upper limit to where people could possibly start breaking stuff or causing damage of some sort.
That said, I doubt it would undo itself if you screwed it on there hand tight without a torque wrench. I would never advise doing so but the gas tube should keep it from turning loose. It may put enough strain on the gas tube to move it to the side of the receiver causing issues when hitting the gas key on the BCG though. And I am also sure you can go a good ways above 80 ft pounds as many have done but it's taking a slight risk. Grease it up, torque the barrel nut on 2-3 times and then line up a tooth. If the barrel nut is on there fairly tight it isn't going to come loose on you, and if you can't line it up then try a different barrel nut - they're only $5. Another good tool to have if you don't feel like having a couple extra barrel nuts laying around is the receiver lapping tool that squares up the front of the receiver. It will allow you to remove a slight bit of material from the front of the receiver until a tooth will align. I own the cheap DPMS style tool and have never ever had an issue with it slipping from the teeth on the barrel nut and it works great. Maybe I got a good one, or maybe the issues only arise when using it combined with the torque wrench. |
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Posted: 12/30/2017 4:01:36 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That said, I doubt it would undo itself if you screwed it on there hand tight without a torque wrench. I would never advise doing so but the gas tube should keep it from turning loose. It may put enough strain on the gas tube to move it to the side of the receiver causing issues when hitting the gas key on the BCG though. And I am also sure you can go a good ways above 80 ft pounds as many have done but it's taking a slight risk. That whole experience is why I think that following the tightening and loosening procedure and using a torque wrench to know you are at the 30 foot pound minimum is so important. I don't have the calibrated elbow that some guys do though.
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Posted: 12/30/2017 4:09:21 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: An assembly method that used to be really popular around here was the "hand tight and next notch" method. On one occasion I did try this assembly method and ended up with the barrel nut coming loose and putting pressure on the gas tube causing it to interfere with the gas key, which caused the carrier to have failures to go fully into battery. This assembly method was free of any torque wrench use or any tightening and loosening of the barrel nut... I probably only ended up with about 15 to 20 foot pounds of torque on the barrel nut. That whole experience is why I think that following the tightening and loosening procedure and using a torque wrench to know you are at the 30 foot pound minimum is so important. I don't have the calibrated elbow that some guys do though. And I don't have a calibrated elbow either but know when something is tight enough. To be safe I am sure none of mine are ever close to the 30 foot pound minimum, id say if anything they are closer to the 80ft pound maximum. I highly doubt if any of the ones I have built are under 50-60ft pounds. If I tighten one down and think it's possible it's only at around 30 or even 35ish foot pounds then I won't use it like that. I'd much rather go through the little bit of extra work of switching to a different barrel nut or lapping the front of the receiver and getting it up to 50-80 foot pounds rather then chance it on the low end. But if you built a lot of rifles and were OK with using them on the minimum 30 foot pound side then maybe it is a good idea to use a torque wrench for them to make sure you hit the magical 30. None I have done are close enough to 30 to worry about being under. |
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Posted: 12/30/2017 4:58:39 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That makes sense, I figured that would be the main issue with a loose barrel nut. And I don't have a calibrated elbow either but know when something is tight enough. To be safe I am sure none of mine are ever close to the 30 foot pound minimum, id say if anything they are closer to the 80ft pound maximum. I highly doubt if any of the ones I have built are under 50-60ft pounds. If I tighten one down and think it's possible it's only at around 30 or even 35ish foot pounds then I won't use it like that. I'd much rather go through the little bit of extra work of switching to a different barrel nut or lapping the front of the receiver and getting it up to 50-80 foot pounds rather then chance it on the low end. But if you built a lot of rifles and were OK with using them on the minimum 30 foot pound side then maybe it is a good idea to use a torque wrench for them to make sure you hit the magical 30. None I have done are close enough to 30 to worry about being under. The few that have lined up at 30 foot pounds haven't shot loose, but they haven't had a lot of rounds through them. |
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Posted: 12/30/2017 6:29:17 PM EDT
[#36]
I dunno. I took mine apart again and just did the feel method. With it greased up, I seems to hit the key pretty easy without a ton of effort, but to try to get it to the next key I'd have to reef the hell out of it and that's where I get into goobering it up and being concerned I'd damage the upper.
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Posted: 12/30/2017 6:30:47 PM EDT
[#37]
Sorry, double post...
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Posted: 12/30/2017 7:28:27 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I dunno. I took mine apart again and just did the feel method. With it greased up, I seems to hit the key pretty easy without a ton of effort, but to try to get it to the next key I'd have to reef the hell out of it and that's where I get into goobering it up and being concerned I'd damage the upper. Sometimes changing out the nut or the receiver may be necessary, but changing out the nut can kind of be a pain due to having to remove the FSB. Of course as already mentioned, there is the upper receiver lapping tool and barrel nut shims. Though if I were to run into any issues getting the barrel nut aligned I would just change out the nut. |
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Posted: 12/30/2017 8:23:45 PM EDT
[#39]
Well, when I get the new nut wrench, I'll try once again with a torque wrench. I picked up a Tekton wrench a while back. I'll see if that produces better results. Not relishing having to take off the nut if I don't have to.
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Posted: 1/1/2018 1:24:52 PM EDT
[#40]
I got up this morning and dug out the parts to put on the two upped I got from Fulton Armory
Rear sights and port doors. After I got them done I dug out one of the boxes of uppers from storage. In the box was another Fulton Armory I bought a while back so I added the sights and port door. ( I forgot I had it.) There was 5 Colt uppers I had forgotten about that are ready to build on. Now I have 8 more ready to put together in the next few months (maybe longer, no hurry) I have all the parts to put them together when I feel like doing it. Note: none are for sale> The five on the left are Colts and the 3 on the right are FA. The Colts are a dark grey and the FA are black. I lightened the picture to show some details of the receivers. Have a nice day! Ron  Attached File |
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Posted: 1/24/2018 6:10:00 AM EDT
[#41]
I had bought my Fulton Armory blem ($35) slick side upper from them at Camp Perry this summer. Had to remove the A-3 die stamp above ejection port, and the splintered A also (the C was already sanded off). A friend at work did a grey Norrell finish for me along with a matching NDS-M16A1 lower. Came out pretty good. This will go on my GUU-5/P set up. Pictures this weekend.
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Posted: 1/24/2018 7:46:27 AM EDT
[#42]
I just got one of these, the only lower it would fit is a brownells I just received. Whats up with the extra hole opposite the sight wheel?
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Posted: 1/24/2018 9:26:50 AM EDT
[#43]
What is the background on the A-3 above ejection port?
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Posted: 1/24/2018 2:26:01 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What is the background on the A-3 above ejection port? They changed the location so it is now in the area of the ejection port and is removed during machining. |
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Posted: 1/24/2018 3:44:13 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Right you are. It has been done, from very crudely, to really high quality. To make it "right" you would need to remove the forge codes, remove the "R" and 'L" and arrow above the sight wheel, carefully change it from round forge to square forge, remove any flashing it may have, rebate the area on the left beneath the port door to line up with a lower receiver, and then reanodize it the correct early grey color. |
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Posted: 1/24/2018 7:01:27 PM EDT
[#46]
Here's my Fulton Armory slick side upper (and NDS M16A1 lower) that I just had a Norrell finish applied. Like all of Fulton Armory AR black rifles, the finish is black. Completed rifle is now a clone USAF GUU-5/P. Barrel was a Colt 6720 I had John Thomas cut, pin and weld to 16". Also, had John remove old FSB and use an original Colt with C & Bell markings. NDS 2 position extension with Colt N1 marked stock. Hand guards aftermarket. Extremely light weight and handy. Before re-finish it was an accurate and reliable little gem.
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Posted: 1/24/2018 7:08:08 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Here's my Fulton Armory slick side upper (and NDS M16A1 lower) that I just had a Norrell finish applied. Like all of Fulton Armory AR black rifles, the finish is black. Completed rifle is now a clone USAF GUU-5/P. Barrel was a Colt 6720 I had John Thomas cut, pin and weld to 16". Also, had John remove old FSB and use an original Colt with C & Bell markings. NDS 2 position extension with Colt N1 marked stock. Hand guards aftermarket. Extremely light weight and handy. Before re-finish it was an accurate and reliable little gem. https://i.imgur.com/n5EiNVE.jpg https://i.imgur.com/Ru3vD1l.jpg https://i.imgur.com/jnrL7Br.jpg |
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Posted: 2/6/2018 9:49:06 PM EDT
[#48]
Got mine yesterday. Black with C A. Looks to be flawless, we'll see about the fit when time comes.
S/F Al |
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Posted: 2/7/2018 12:28:24 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Here's my Fulton Armory slick side upper (and NDS M16A1 lower) that I just had a Norrell finish applied. Like all of Fulton Armory AR black rifles, the finish is black. Completed rifle is now a clone USAF GUU-5/P. Barrel was a Colt 6720 I had John Thomas cut, pin and weld to 16". Also, had John remove old FSB and use an original Colt with C & Bell markings. NDS 2 position extension with Colt N1 marked stock. Hand guards aftermarket. Extremely light weight and handy. Before re-finish it was an accurate and reliable little gem. https://i.imgur.com/n5EiNVE.jpg https://i.imgur.com/Ru3vD1l.jpg https://i.imgur.com/jnrL7Br.jpg |
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Posted: 2/7/2018 5:31:26 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That is a beautiful rifle, I want one like it myself. Do you know who made those aftermarket handguards? Reason I ask is they actually look to be the correct profile/thickness. All of the 6 hole handguards I keep seeing pictures of are still slightly fatter in the rear on the side towards the receiver then the stock 6 hole Colts. |
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