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Posted: 1/4/2014 7:32:11 PM EDT
[#1]
Repost in troubleshooting for Dano and Sully. Also check my PM advice. Let me know if it works or helps.
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Posted: 1/7/2014 1:02:37 AM EDT
[#2]
AuDoc,
If you have not yet sent your M&P back to S&W then you should read the post by bluesfan72 in this thread. http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_118/619507_Colt_s_Customer_Service__Another_update_pg_5___.html&page=6 |
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Posted: 1/7/2014 10:32:11 AM EDT
[#3]
Hi ,
I am sorry to hear about this issue. Please send me a direct email and I will look into this for you ASAP. Note: Please do not modify or alter the firearm in any way, and leave it as it is. Also, please list if there are any modifications done to this rifle in any way. (Trigger, stock, buffer, spring, etc.) Please include your complete information: Name Address Phone # Email: Serial # and Model# Where and when you purchased the firearm. (Location, Store, approximate date if new.) We will get this taken care of for you ASAP. Thank, you! S&W |
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Posted: 1/7/2014 11:51:15 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Hi , I am sorry to hear about this issue. Please send me a direct email and I will look into this for you ASAP. Note: Please do not modify or alter the firearm in any way, and leave it as it is. Also, please list if there are any modifications done to this rifle in any way. (Trigger, stock, buffer, spring, etc.) Please include your complete information: Name Address Phone # Email: Serial # and Model# Where and when you purchased the firearm. (Location, Store, approximate date if new.) We will get this taken care of for you ASAP. Thank, you! S&W OP, I would certainly take him up on his offer. S&W WILL take care of this for you and get it running 100% or they will replace it with a new rifle that runs 100%... |
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Posted: 1/7/2014 12:02:02 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Hi , I am sorry to hear about this issue. Please send me a direct email and I will look into this for you ASAP. Note: Please do not modify or alter the firearm in any way, and leave it as it is. Also, please list if there are any modifications done to this rifle in any way. (Trigger, stock, buffer, spring, etc.) Please include your complete information: Name Address Phone # Email: Serial # and Model# Where and when you purchased the firearm. (Location, Store, approximate date if new.) We will get this taken care of for you ASAP. Thank, you! S&W If this is not enough for you to send it back then... I don't know what more to say. WTG S&W, true to form as expected. ETA: Since the OP appears to be no longer following the thread, I sent him an email relating S&W's posted offer to resolve his problem. |
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Posted: 1/7/2014 5:28:15 PM EDT
[#6]
Fantastic timing....
BTW, Thank you for the heads up on a change to this post, I don't always have time to check this thread like I should. All the valuable information received here is appreciated. |
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Posted: 1/7/2014 6:09:17 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
AuDoc, If you have not yet sent your M&P back to S&W then you should read the post by bluesfan72 in this thread. http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_118/619507_Colt_s_Customer_Service__Another_update_pg_5___.html&page=6 Thanks for the link. Yeah, hasn't been a pheasant experience and its nice to know I am not the only one. |
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Posted: 1/7/2014 6:13:18 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Have you tried using a traditional quality gun oil (not a dry lube) instead of grease (slip 2000 or Tri-flow for instance)? The grease may be slowing down the action somehow inducing your problem, especially if this is a cold weather related problem. ETA - This tech bulletin from JP Rifles on lubing the rifle is pretty much how I lube mine. Here's the official arfcom lube guide with army suggested lube method. The buffer spring, carrier and bolt/cam get a little more than a "generous" amount of oil on my rifle although I try to not get oil sprayed on my face the first shot it happens sometimes. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
As for charging handle and bolt smoothness: Just tried it and seems to be relatively smooth but hard to tell with the grease. My M1A, Garand, Carbine are far smoother but those are a different king of animal. Have you tried using a traditional quality gun oil (not a dry lube) instead of grease (slip 2000 or Tri-flow for instance)? The grease may be slowing down the action somehow inducing your problem, especially if this is a cold weather related problem. ETA - This tech bulletin from JP Rifles on lubing the rifle is pretty much how I lube mine. Here's the official arfcom lube guide with army suggested lube method. The buffer spring, carrier and bolt/cam get a little more than a "generous" amount of oil on my rifle although I try to not get oil sprayed on my face the first shot it happens sometimes. Yeah, I was using CLP during one of the tests runs. Noticed the ARFCOM post a while back, liked it. |
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Posted: 1/7/2014 9:10:10 PM EDT
[#9]
Been thinking for most of the evening how to word this and not have it come across the wrong way but I got rid of the M&P this last weekend. Got tired of the razzing from people telling me I should have gotten this or that brand after I show up with to the range with the thing. Made worse by my continually trying to clear jams. You guys know you give friends a hard time when you think they may have made a bad choice. All in fun I know, I just had enough dinking with the thing. My range is a 45 minute drive one way and with an already busy schedule it just wasn't any fun to try tweaking stuff only to find it did no good. I had a choice to send it back....... again, but I chose to just part company. The bullet bending thing made me wonder how safe the thing really was.
Ive grown up with S&W products since my first .38 snubby my Dad gave me many decades ago. My father swore my his old Detectives Special. I tried an M&P C.O.R.E in 9mm a while back and it was a bit finicky as well and the trigger wasn't what some of the other guns in its price point were in my opinion so my luck lately with the products hasn't been too good. Ive done the return to factory thing, Just don't have the patience left to send stuff in multiple times only to have it returned with not so much as a word about what was found. This last time was the last straw to have something returned still having the problem it was sent in with. I do think there were several positive experiences, not the least of which was the turnaround time. Second, The response from what I want to believe to be a representative of S&W on this thread just above. I think it is fantastic there is a presence here. I do like the idea of an affordable to shoot and the nearly limitless customizable platform as the AR seems to be. My first experience was just an expensive miscalculation in confidence in a product. I should have discovered this forum BEFORE I took the plunge, much valuable information and great personalities here. Thanks for all your help. Doc |
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Posted: 1/8/2014 3:02:20 AM EDT
[#10]
What do you mean by "got rid of"? I really hope you didn't sell a defective rifle that you felt was unsafe to someone.
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Posted: 1/8/2014 5:04:03 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What do you mean by "got rid of"? I really hope you didn't sell a defective rifle that you felt was unsafe to someone. Agree. OP please let your buyer know. He's gonna be raising Cain with you and needs to know about the offer of S&W support here to resolve your issue. All you had to do was follow the instructions above from their support rep. I can't believe you dumped the gun on someone with a warranty issue pending. You have some kind of very rare and difficult to diagnose problem that has stumped both S&W and this board, but which S&W is trying to resolve. Any company can have a production line flaw, even companies like Daniel Defense or LMT. It happens. Employees are human. Get that rifle and get it to S&W. I read the whole thread and didn't see that you swapped out the BCG. Maybe I missed that. BTW, I have a custom build based on an M&P 15 lower and have found it to be very good. I really pride myself on having a S&W serial number on that rifle and know they will stand by their product if I ever have a problem. |
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Posted: 1/8/2014 5:04:04 AM EDT
[#12]
I can't say that I blame you for offloading the troublesome rifle, however I wouldn't have been able to knowingly sell something that I knew was defective to an unknowing person.
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Posted: 1/8/2014 5:30:20 AM EDT
[#13]
Be interesting to know what was really wrong with it, and whether it was ever sent back to S&W the first time.
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Posted: 1/8/2014 5:40:28 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Be interesting to know what was really wrong with it, and whether it was ever sent back to S&W the first time. Yep. now we may never know what was wrong. 
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Posted: 1/13/2014 12:17:51 PM EDT
[#15]
I was disappointed to learn that the OP sold the rifle before determining the cause of the malfunction because I have been having a similar problem with my gun. Earlier in the thread I posted as follows:
Quoted:
I have had the same problem with my Daniel Defense M4A1 although not nearly as frequently as the OP describes. Although it has happened at least two times that I can recall with XM193 ammo (what I usually shoot), I've noticed that it happens at least once per magazine with 5.56 Winchester 55 gr FMJ so I just attributed it to the ammo and have since stopped using it. I have shot a variety of other ammo (PMC, American Eagle, cheap brass case eastern European ammo) without experiencing the same problem. Forgive me if this is a foolish question, as I've only owned my rifle for 6 months, but is it possible that the ammo being used could be contributing to this particular malfunction? I'd love to know what this problem turns out to be and how I can address the (less severe) problem with mine. This past weekend I went to the range and shot 150 rounds (XM193, Federal AE & PMC .223) and experienced three malfunctions similar to those previously described. Two of the malfunctions were with XM193 in two different (and brand new) Pmags and the other malfunction was with American Eagle .223 in another, lightly used but otherwise reliable Pmag. One thing that may be interesting to note was the fact that the first malfunction of the day (using XM193) occurred with the first round from a fresh magazine following a reload. After seating the magazine (and feeling it click and pulling down to make sure it was seated) and hitting the bolt catch, I pulled the trigger and felt the hammer drop but no bang. The round that came out is pictured below. The other two malfunctions I experienced occurred about half way through two separate magazines with the rifle cycling normally and the ammo in both cases came out slightly less bent but without deep scratches on the case. http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3805/11920209703_e02f930d44_b.jpg http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7349/11920792896_c161c24653_b.jpg http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3700/11934297093_c8bb02c10b_b.jpg I've also included two pictures of the chamber (below) after I cleaned it (and before I lubed it) when I got home. This is my first AR so I'm not entirely sure what 'abnormal' would look like but any insight or feedback would be welcomed and appreciated. As I mentioned in my earlier post, the frequency of the malfunction in my rifle is less than the OP described, and this weekend's three malfunctions out of 150 rounds is probably representative of how often I've been having this problem. That said, I don't want a rifle that is 98% reliable; I want it to work every time. http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3787/11920391354_38f3f23a27_b.jpg http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7310/11920797076_5aa2a6882c_b.jpg |
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Posted: 1/13/2014 1:47:51 PM EDT
[#16]
Though your FTFs' may not be as frequently as the OP's I agree with you, 98% is still unacceptable. Looking at the pics the chamber and feed ramps appear good but that's looking at pics. My suggestion is the same as what I offered the OP... contact the manufacturer. I'm sorry I can't be more helpful. Maybe someone more knowledgeable than me can provide you with a better solution. I've never had this kind of an issue but I would like to know the problem and the fix.
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Posted: 1/13/2014 7:28:04 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Though your FTFs' may not be as frequently as the OP's I agree with you, 98% is still unacceptable. Looking at the pics the chamber and feed ramps appear good but that's looking at pics. My suggestion is the same as what I offered the OP... contact the manufacturer. I'm sorry I can't be more helpful. Maybe someone more knowledgeable than me can provide you with a better solution. I've never had this kind of an issue but I would like to know the problem and the fix. Thanks, I appreciate the advice. I know Daniel Defense has a reputation for outstanding customer service so that may be my next move. Still, I'd love to be able to get this fixed myself if at all possible... In either case, I think any diagnosis or resolution of this problem would be valuable because I haven't found very much information about this specific malfunction anywhere online. |
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Posted: 1/13/2014 9:28:19 PM EDT
[#18]
TOD did you try a different bcg?
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Posted: 1/13/2014 10:17:04 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I was disappointed to learn that the OP sold the rifle before determining the cause of the malfunction because I have been having a similar problem with my gun. Earlier in the thread I posted as follows: This past weekend I went to the range and shot 150 rounds (XM193, Federal AE & PMC .223) and experienced three malfunctions similar to those previously described. Two of the malfunctions were with XM193 in two different (and brand new) Pmags and the other malfunction was with American Eagle .223 in another, lightly used but otherwise reliable Pmag. One thing that may be interesting to note was the fact that the first malfunction of the day (using XM193) occurred with the first round from a fresh magazine following a reload. After seating the magazine (and feeling it click and pulling down to make sure it was seated) and hitting the bolt catch, I pulled the trigger and felt the hammer drop but no bang. The round that came out is pictured below. The other two malfunctions I experienced occurred about half way through two separate magazines with the rifle cycling normally and the ammo in both cases came out slightly less bent but without deep scratches on the case. [email=http://www.flickr.com/photos/111339783@N02/11920209703/]http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3805/11920209703_e02f930d44_b.jpg[/email] [email=http://www.flickr.com/photos/111339783@N02/11920792896/]http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7349/11920792896_c161c24653_b.jpg[/email] [email=http://www.flickr.com/photos/111339783@N02/11934297093/]http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3700/11934297093_c8bb02c10b_b.jpg[/email] I've also included two pictures of the chamber (below) after I cleaned it (and before I lubed it) when I got home. This is my first AR so I'm not entirely sure what 'abnormal' would look like but any insight or feedback would be welcomed and appreciated. As I mentioned in my earlier post, the frequency of the malfunction in my rifle is less than the OP described, and this weekend's three malfunctions out of 150 rounds is probably representative of how often I've been having this problem. That said, I don't want a rifle that is 98% reliable; I want it to work every time. [email=http://www.flickr.com/photos/111339783@N02/11920391354/]http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3787/11920391354_38f3f23a27_b.jpg[/email] [email=http://www.flickr.com/photos/111339783@N02/11920797076/]http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7310/11920797076_5aa2a6882c_b.jpg[/email] Quote HistoryQuoted:
I was disappointed to learn that the OP sold the rifle before determining the cause of the malfunction because I have been having a similar problem with my gun. Earlier in the thread I posted as follows: Quoted:
I have had the same problem with my Daniel Defense M4A1 although not nearly as frequently as the OP describes. Although it has happened at least two times that I can recall with XM193 ammo (what I usually shoot), I've noticed that it happens at least once per magazine with 5.56 Winchester 55 gr FMJ so I just attributed it to the ammo and have since stopped using it. I have shot a variety of other ammo (PMC, American Eagle, cheap brass case eastern European ammo) without experiencing the same problem. Forgive me if this is a foolish question, as I've only owned my rifle for 6 months, but is it possible that the ammo being used could be contributing to this particular malfunction? I'd love to know what this problem turns out to be and how I can address the (less severe) problem with mine. This past weekend I went to the range and shot 150 rounds (XM193, Federal AE & PMC .223) and experienced three malfunctions similar to those previously described. Two of the malfunctions were with XM193 in two different (and brand new) Pmags and the other malfunction was with American Eagle .223 in another, lightly used but otherwise reliable Pmag. One thing that may be interesting to note was the fact that the first malfunction of the day (using XM193) occurred with the first round from a fresh magazine following a reload. After seating the magazine (and feeling it click and pulling down to make sure it was seated) and hitting the bolt catch, I pulled the trigger and felt the hammer drop but no bang. The round that came out is pictured below. The other two malfunctions I experienced occurred about half way through two separate magazines with the rifle cycling normally and the ammo in both cases came out slightly less bent but without deep scratches on the case. [email=http://www.flickr.com/photos/111339783@N02/11920209703/]http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3805/11920209703_e02f930d44_b.jpg[/email] [email=http://www.flickr.com/photos/111339783@N02/11920792896/]http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7349/11920792896_c161c24653_b.jpg[/email] [email=http://www.flickr.com/photos/111339783@N02/11934297093/]http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3700/11934297093_c8bb02c10b_b.jpg[/email] I've also included two pictures of the chamber (below) after I cleaned it (and before I lubed it) when I got home. This is my first AR so I'm not entirely sure what 'abnormal' would look like but any insight or feedback would be welcomed and appreciated. As I mentioned in my earlier post, the frequency of the malfunction in my rifle is less than the OP described, and this weekend's three malfunctions out of 150 rounds is probably representative of how often I've been having this problem. That said, I don't want a rifle that is 98% reliable; I want it to work every time. [email=http://www.flickr.com/photos/111339783@N02/11920391354/]http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3787/11920391354_38f3f23a27_b.jpg[/email] [email=http://www.flickr.com/photos/111339783@N02/11920797076/]http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7310/11920797076_5aa2a6882c_b.jpg[/email] Take a look at your second picture. You can see where the bolt lugs have dug into the case. Looks to me like its short stroking. |
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Posted: 1/14/2014 6:11:06 AM EDT
[#20]
Quoted:
TOD did you try a different bcg? I haven't tried a different BCG, I will try to see if I can find someone at the range that will let me use theirs this weekend. I will also put some pics of my BCG up this evening. I've checked the spring tension on the extractor as someone suggested earlier and I couldn't find any problems. Quoted:
Take a look at your second picture. You can see where the bolt lugs have dug into the case. Looks to me like its short stroking. That's what I thought might be the problem but the scratched casing in the second picture is the first round off of a fresh magazine that bent and wouldn't fire after I hit the bolt catch to reload. The other rounds that malfunctioned were about halfway through different mags with the rifle cycling normally and didn't bend as dramatically (although this hasn't always been the case) and had little or no scratching on the casings. |
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Posted: 1/14/2014 4:32:20 PM EDT
[#21]
Hopefully these angles provide relevant information...
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7294/11956306835_11f6fd65c3_b.jpg http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5503/11956730894_109c5aa169_b.jpg http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3784/11956739264_0e0b706f6b_b.jpg http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5547/11956313025_18aa35010a_b.jpg |
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Posted: 1/14/2014 5:54:16 PM EDT
[#22]
If that's the case I waould say you have mag issues. Your going to have to narrow it down. Mark your mags. Figure out is it's just one or different at random mags.
Find a mag is never happens with and see if you can notice any differences between it and the bad mags. If it all mags try adjusting the mag catch |
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Posted: 1/14/2014 6:51:35 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If that's the case I waould say you have mag issues. Your going to have to narrow it down. Mark your mags. Figure out is it's just one or different at random mags. Find a mag is never happens with and see if you can notice any differences between it and the bad mags. If it all mags try adjusting the mag catch I've numbered my mags and kept a notepad in my bag to log the malfunctions including all relevant info (i.e. which mag, what ammo, etc.) since I first got my rifle last July. Unless I have impossibly bad luck buying new magazines, there's no correlation between the malfunction and particular magazines. I have a single aluminum mag and nine Pmags (three windowed gen 3, one windowed gen 2, and five regular gen 2) and I've had the malfunction in every single one of them save for one of the gen 3 Pmags (which I got for Christmas this year along with two others which each have had the problem). I've tried tightening the mag catch but only to tell if I can notice an appreciable change in the amount of play in a seated magazine (which I can't, although that's pretty subjective). I'll certainly try it though when I shoot this weekend to see if it helps. How much movement in a set magazine is generally considered unacceptable? |
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Posted: 1/14/2014 6:55:51 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What do you mean by "got rid of"? I really hope you didn't sell a defective rifle that you felt was unsafe to someone. This. Did you trade it back in, or sell it? After all this, we deserve an answer 
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Posted: 1/14/2014 7:01:03 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I've numbered my mags and kept a notepad in my bag to log the malfunctions including all relevant info (i.e. which mag, what ammo, etc.) since I first got my rifle last July. Unless I have impossibly bad luck buying new magazines, there's no correlation between the malfunction and particular magazines. I have a single aluminum mag and nine Pmags (three windowed gen 3, one windowed gen 2, and five regular gen 2) and I've had the malfunction in every single one of them save for one of the gen 3 Pmags (which I got for Christmas this year along with two others which each have had the problem). I've tried tightening the mag catch but only to tell if I can notice an appreciable change in the amount of play in a seated magazine (which I can't, although that's pretty subjective). I'll certainly try it though when I shoot this weekend to see if it helps. How much movement in a set magazine is generally considered unacceptable? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
If that's the case I waould say you have mag issues. Your going to have to narrow it down. Mark your mags. Figure out is it's just one or different at random mags. Find a mag is never happens with and see if you can notice any differences between it and the bad mags. If it all mags try adjusting the mag catch I've numbered my mags and kept a notepad in my bag to log the malfunctions including all relevant info (i.e. which mag, what ammo, etc.) since I first got my rifle last July. Unless I have impossibly bad luck buying new magazines, there's no correlation between the malfunction and particular magazines. I have a single aluminum mag and nine Pmags (three windowed gen 3, one windowed gen 2, and five regular gen 2) and I've had the malfunction in every single one of them save for one of the gen 3 Pmags (which I got for Christmas this year along with two others which each have had the problem). I've tried tightening the mag catch but only to tell if I can notice an appreciable change in the amount of play in a seated magazine (which I can't, although that's pretty subjective). I'll certainly try it though when I shoot this weekend to see if it helps. How much movement in a set magazine is generally considered unacceptable? Well hell, I'm lost. Keep us informed. Is it happening right off or always after a few mags. What buffer/spring are you using? Try and take a picture of the round in the chamber next time it happens. |
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Posted: 1/14/2014 7:19:00 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Well hell, I'm lost. Keep us informed. Is it happening right off or always after a few mags. What buffer/spring are you using? Try and take a picture of the round in the chamber next time it happens. The earliest it has happened was within the first ten rounds of the first mag of the day but I have not noticed a definite pattern to when it occurs. I've used the H buffer and spring that came with the rifle but swapped it out for the JP SCS in October and cannot tell a difference in the frequency of the malfunction. |
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Posted: 1/19/2014 9:11:37 AM EDT
[#27]
So I went to the range yesterday and after firing two shoots without any problems this happened:
http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3704/12034746276_fd348916e1_b.jpg http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5494/12034193623_513b7774a2_b.jpg The round that came out... http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3743/12035065356_bb06c07392_b.jpg ...looked like the others. http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7310/12034397223_ff6bc49e3d_b.jpg http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7453/12034500284_a6f59c6062_b.jpg I don't know what else to do short of contacting Daniel Defense, any help or suggestions would be sincerely appreciated. |
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Posted: 1/19/2014 9:20:58 AM EDT
[#28]
Been following this for a few days now. I'm hoping you get it figured out soon. I'm curious to know what is going on myself. Never seen anything like it. Good Luck
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Posted: 1/19/2014 10:36:51 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So I went to the range yesterday and after firing two shoots without any problems this happened: [email=http://www.flickr.com/photos/111339783@N02/12034746276/]http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3704/12034746276_fd348916e1_b.jpg[/email] [email=http://www.flickr.com/photos/111339783@N02/12034193623/]http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5494/12034193623_513b7774a2_b.jpg[/email] The round that came out... [email=http://www.flickr.com/photos/111339783@N02/12035065356/]http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3743/12035065356_bb06c07392_b.jpg[/email] ...looked like the others. [email=http://www.flickr.com/photos/111339783@N02/12034397223/]http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7310/12034397223_ff6bc49e3d_b.jpg[/email] [email=http://www.flickr.com/photos/111339783@N02/12034500284/]http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7453/12034500284_a6f59c6062_b.jpg[/email] I don't know what else to do short of contacting Daniel Defense, any help or suggestions would be sincerely appreciated. OP, I wouldn't hesitate to contact Daniel Defense and let them take care of this. I've in the past bought two new handguns that turned out to be horrible pieces of shit from well regarded manufacturers. I spent all kinds of time and money/ammo trying to get it to work. I finally sold it. The second one, I returned it to the dealer immediately and demanded a replacement. They did, and gave me an upgraded pistol at that. A big headache was adverted... And that's how it should be... |
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Posted: 1/19/2014 12:05:53 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Been following this for a few days now. I'm hoping you get it figured out soon. I'm curious to know what is going on myself. Never seen anything like it. Good Luck Yeah it's got me baffled. I'd really like to know what's causing it. I would want to figure it out but sometimes it's best to return it to the manufactor. |
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Posted: 1/19/2014 12:33:46 PM EDT
[#31]
Sorry been so busy..
Bummer, happened to another AR owner. What is going on with these things? Strangely I actually passed up on a Daniel Defense to get the S&W... I even liked their fit and finish better but still went with the history of the S&W. A really appreciated the help this board provided so Id be happy to answer the latest questions that took place while I was offline. Yes I did actually send it in a while back and didn't seem to correct the problem and the lack of feedback contributed to my irritation. No, I didn't sell it. I didn't feel it was right to pass an unsafe firearm off to someone else so I did the best thing I could think of in light of the frustration, I disassembled it and decommissioned both halves of the receiver. Will probably turn the lower into local PD to get my name disassociated with the rifle. Gave away various small parts that others asked for except for barrel, BCG and stocks. No one received any part that I thought would cause them the problems I had with it. I really wanted a cure to the frustration so keeping it wasn't an option, I didn't want to look at the thing anymore. Rest assured no one will be endangered with this particular rifle. I could see the irritation getting worse if I would have kept the unusable thing in the safe and it fell over and dinged one of my other rifles like a Garand, M1A or one of Dads old Winchesters. Is a bummer something couldn't be found so others could share in the fix. Hopefully the other person posting finds a solution to his problem. |
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Posted: 1/19/2014 12:49:30 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Sorry been so busy.. Bummer, happened to another AR owner. What is going on with these things? Strangely I actually passed up on a Daniel Defense to get the S&W... I even liked their fit and finish better but still went with the history of the S&W. A really appreciated the help this board provided so Id be happy to answer the latest questions that took place while I was offline. Yes I did actually send it in a while back and didn't seem to correct the problem and the lack of feedback contributed to my irritation. No, I didn't sell it. I didn't feel it was right to pass an unsafe firearm off to someone else so I did the best thing I could think of in light of the frustration, I disassembled it and decommissioned both halves of the receiver. Will probably turn the lower into local PD to get my name disassociated with the rifle. Gave away various small parts that others asked for except for barrel, BCG and stocks. No one received any part that I thought would cause them the problems I had with it. I really wanted a cure to the frustration so keeping it wasn't an option, I didn't want to look at the thing anymore. Rest assured no one will be endangered with this particular rifle. I could see the irritation getting worse if I would have kept the unusable thing in the safe and it fell over and dinged one of my other rifles like a Garand, M1A or one of Dads old Winchesters. Is a bummer something couldn't be found so others could share in the fix. Hopefully the other person posting finds a solution to his problem. You're turning in your lower to a PD ? Really? Are you now done with the AR 15 platform based on this issue you have experienced? |
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Posted: 1/19/2014 1:07:22 PM EDT
[#33]
Yeah, I had to register it when I bought it in July. Figured it would be good to have a record of it no longer being usable and in my possession and turning it in to PD sees like the best way to achieve that. Is there a better way?
Id like to build one or two myself. With my mechanical abilities Id like to try and improve on what I have seen with this one. People are still telling me these things can be fun and reliable so I really do want to have at least one to add to my collection. Besides I still have a pile of P-Mags and 5.56 and need a rifle to be able to use them. Edit to add: Just noticed this afternoon there was a really cool e-mail from S&W Support making me wish I would have spent more time communicating with him. Had I not already done what I had done before his post above ..... Well Id like to think It could have been remedied some way or another. If I can be completely assured the grief wouldn't be repeated Id like to look into another M&P. Truth be told, I really did like the rifle and the idea it was a S&W, it was just the original lack of communication and having a defective rifle returned to me with no explanation that compounded the irritation and led to how I disposed of it. |
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Posted: 1/19/2014 2:03:46 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yeah, I had to register it when I bought it in July. Figured it would be good to have a record of it no longer being usable and in my possession and turning it in to PD sees like the best way to achieve that. Is there a better way? . Yes. Send it to my FFL. Will be out of your name once the ATF transfer is done. I'll even take the barrel, and bolt group too. MAybe I can partially rebuild your rifle, and try to discover teh cause. |
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Posted: 1/19/2014 2:07:29 PM EDT
[#35]
+1 My thoughts exactly. I would even pay for the FFL plus Shipping
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Posted: 1/19/2014 2:12:18 PM EDT
[#36]
Be happy to send it to you but you should know it is nothing more than a garden stake at this point. I wasn't taking any chances of anyone else getting hurt from it.
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Posted: 1/19/2014 2:15:40 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Be happy to send it to you but you should know it is nothing more than a garden stake at this point. I wasn't taking any chances of anyone else getting hurt from it. If its what you describe It is a used stripped lower Still usable |
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Posted: 1/19/2014 2:23:05 PM EDT
[#38]
Its not and I'm pretty sure you don't want pics.
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Posted: 1/19/2014 2:26:41 PM EDT
[#39]
 Is it still a usable lower? My sons AR has glue holding the ears for the trigger guard together and thought this would be an update for him
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Posted: 1/19/2014 2:43:34 PM EDT
[#40]
Alright, lets just say I might know of someone that may or may not have used a relatively well known defective rifle for tests to answer questions as to the strength and serviceability of said platform. The tests may have been performed by several others employing several presumed destructive techniques. Although the tests rendered the rifle COMPLETELY unusable, much knowledge on the strength of components was acquired.
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Posted: 1/19/2014 4:37:19 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Alright, lets just say I might know of someone that may or may not have used a relatively well known defective rifle for tests to answer questions as to the strength and serviceability of said platform. The tests may have been performed by several others employing several presumed destructive techniques. Although the tests rendered the rifle COMPLETELY unusable, much knowledge on the strength of components was acquired. So you destroyed the lower receiver?  It's the Spikes thing all over again.
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Posted: 1/19/2014 5:28:48 PM EDT
[#42]
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Posted: 1/19/2014 5:36:22 PM EDT
[#43]
Was worthless and up to that point Factory support was no help. Not sure of this "Spikes" thing you speak of but as far as I am aware it was within my right to do with it as I saw fit. As far as I or anyone else knows the lower could have been to blame. I'm not necessarily buying the whole "magazine catch" theory because the thing was adjusted and re adjusted by nearly everyone I took it to. I have a nice collection of fine firearms, this was not one of them and I wasn't passing it on to some other poor soul to have it bending a bullet and blowing his face/hands off. I do regret having to go to such extremes but the post from S&W support asking to have another crack at it came too late. Everyone here had some great suggestions and I followed them, for which I am grateful. This is a great community and I am thankful I happened upon it. Sorry I couldn't find a solution to your liking. If I get a chance in the near future to toss away another sizable chunk of change on another AR Ill handle things differently. Lesson learned.
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Posted: 1/19/2014 6:11:25 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Was worthless and up to that point Factory support was no help. Not sure of this "Spikes" thing you speak of but as far as I am aware it was within my right to do with it as I saw fit. As far as I or anyone else knows the lower could have been to blame. I'm not necessarily buying the whole "magazine catch" theory because the thing was adjusted and re adjusted by nearly everyone I took it to. I have a nice collection of fine firearms, this was not one of them and I wasn't passing it on to some other poor soul to have it bending a bullet and blowing his face/hands off. I do regret having to go to such extremes but the post from S&W support asking to have another crack at it came too late. Everyone here had some great suggestions and I followed them, for which I am grateful. This is a great community and I am thankful I happened upon it. Sorry I couldn't find a solution to your liking. If I get a chance in the near future to toss away another sizable chunk of change on another AR Ill handle things differently. Lesson learned. I guess I don't understand why you didn't contact S&W again and send it back in again. BTW, S&W never sends a customer a detailed report of what they did to fix a rifle that I have seen. If they couldn't fix that one, they would have given you a new one. You just needed to contact them again. |
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Posted: 1/19/2014 6:29:53 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I guess I don't understand why you didn't contact S&W again and send it back in again. BTW, S&W never sends a customer a detailed report of what they did to fix a rifle that I have seen. If they couldn't fix that one, they would have given you a new one. You just needed to contact them again. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Was worthless and up to that point Factory support was no help. Not sure of this "Spikes" thing you speak of but as far as I am aware it was within my right to do with it as I saw fit. As far as I or anyone else knows the lower could have been to blame. I'm not necessarily buying the whole "magazine catch" theory because the thing was adjusted and re adjusted by nearly everyone I took it to. I have a nice collection of fine firearms, this was not one of them and I wasn't passing it on to some other poor soul to have it bending a bullet and blowing his face/hands off. I do regret having to go to such extremes but the post from S&W support asking to have another crack at it came too late. Everyone here had some great suggestions and I followed them, for which I am grateful. This is a great community and I am thankful I happened upon it. Sorry I couldn't find a solution to your liking. If I get a chance in the near future to toss away another sizable chunk of change on another AR Ill handle things differently. Lesson learned. I guess I don't understand why you didn't contact S&W again and send it back in again. BTW, S&W never sends a customer a detailed report of what they did to fix a rifle that I have seen. If they couldn't fix that one, they would have given you a new one. You just needed to contact them again. Exactly. What I also don't understand is why people ask for advice or help and ignore what's being suggested. Numerous times it was suggested to return it a second time or however many times it takes to get it right. I do understand the "it was in my right to do with as I saw fit". I also understand everyone has a different perspective of $$$$$. |
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Posted: 1/19/2014 6:37:50 PM EDT
[#46]
This is full of fail. You paid far too much money on it to basically destroy it. I know it isn't fun contacting customer service but I'm sure they would be willing to take another look if you were unsatisfied.
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Posted: 1/19/2014 6:47:23 PM EDT
[#47]
If I would have known it was their policy to not to give any feedback or suggestions after a firearm was returned from repair or at least something saying they even received it, let alone not repair it the first time I would never have purchased their product in the first place. Full of fail perhaps but as I said, mistakes and regret exist.
Edit: I had no way of knowing they would have replaced it with a new one. I had no way of knowing until the post on here from support they would even do anything more than they had allegedly done at that point. My e-mail attempts went unanswered. It was already too late by the time I saw that post from the nice guy at S&W. Actually until I discovered this site I was lead to believe from others opinions S&W had jumped the shark a while back and this would be an endless journey and Id still be left with a rifle I couldn't trust and possibly dangerous. This forum changed that for me but it was already too late. |
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Posted: 1/19/2014 7:45:38 PM EDT
[#48]
OP, please post a picture of the bolt face showing the extractor and the ejector.
The only time I have seen an AR choke like you are describing is from the ejector sticking out too far causing it to jam the rim of the case when feeding the round. Or take MisterPX's offer and ship what's left to him so he can try to decipher what happened. |
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Posted: 1/19/2014 7:55:07 PM EDT
[#49]
This I can do.
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Posted: 1/19/2014 8:19:57 PM EDT
[#50]
Problem solving is done by eliminating variables one at a time. This leaves the components of the rifle. Since you said the lower worked with other uppers, we must assume that the lower is in spec and holding the magazines at the proper height and angle. Did you try different lowers with your upper? It sounds like the bolt is either moving with too little or too much force. Gas system problem. Start from the muzzle and check: 1. Gas port size and placement 2. Gas block alignment 3. Gas block port size 4. Gas tube hole size, alignment, tube angle, etc. 5. Carrier key 6. Gas rings and moving parts in the BCG 7. Buffer 8. Spring 9. Receiver extension fitment and angle. I may have forgotten some things, but that is the general idea. To destroy a rifle that is so modular with easily replaceable parts is just silly. |
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