@Wandell

It applies to anything they register or transfer for official use. If their agency is fine with it, they can have a silencer transferred to their agency, and then to them, on F5 (x2). If they make a new post-86 MG on F1 (or receive one at their agency on F5) then it cannot transfer to them individually (unless they also hold an SOT) but then they'll need a demo letter (from a different agency) just like any other SOT would.

Most LEOs and SOTs are not aware of this, so there's no reason to feel dumb. We have a couple threads in the LEO section where it explains in more detail. Also includes discussions with ATF supervisors where they confirmed this is ok. It really is not common knowledge. Officers will definitely need help/approval from their agency in order to make all the tax-exemption happen.

The second thread talks about getting expedited approval on a Form 4 if you're an officer paying a transfer tax, and the thing you're transferring to you will also be used on duty.

Thanks a lot man!

Form1 filed 4/27/2023.  As of today, still sitting at "submitted" status, not even "in process" yet.

In the "Factoring Criteria" document the ATF, in the Q&A section on page 166, takes the position that a folding adapter can be interpreted as intending to lengthen the Length of Pull resulting in a weapon blah blah blah shoulder.

Latest for White House:

White House Announces Biden Would Veto Resolution Overturning ATF's Pistol Brace Rule
https://townhall.com/tipsheet/madelineleesman/2023/06/13/biden-will-veto-resolution-overturning-atfs-pistol-brace-rule-n2624429



Two uses of weapons equipped with braces justify making 40 million people felons.

Well of course! Didn’t you hear that legal gun owners are white supremacists and designated as the most dangerous of home grown terrorists!

I wonder if those people would be any more dead if the perps had put stocks on their short barreled uppers.  

People who know nothing about firearms and their function should not be making laws concerning such, but yet again here we are.

2 events.  At a ratio comparable to market share.  

I call this the Yellow Mustang ban effect.  If you ban Yellow Mustangs, DWI fatalities with Yellow Mustangs will measurable fall.  Zero effect on DWI fatalities overall, as those drivers will of course just use available other Mustangs that perform the same; but Yellow Mustang fatalities will be less.

Can't wait for the SCOTUS to tell Biden and the ATF to go pound sand.  Well, hopefully it gets to them and do...

First of five submissions approved yesterday. Submitted May 3.

Sigh.  Mine was submitted in April and still nothing.  I hope I am checking the status correctly.

I log into the ATF site, on the left is a vertical list of my forms.  I click the "submitted/in progress" link and it shows my form under it.  I click the form link and it pops up a thin horizontal window that shows several fields of info: "ID", "Internal Control Number", "Permit#", "Created by", "Submit Date", "Submitted Date", and "Finalized Date."

The ID field has a number.
The Internal Control Number field is blank
Permit# has a number
Created by has my name in it
The Date is there
Submitted Date is there
Finalized Date is blank.

I assume that this just means it is still in just a "submitted" state, or can this also mean it is being worked on?  I dunno.

I submitted four on 2/11/23 and this is how mine show up as well. I did get the initial submission e-mail confirmations with the PDF copies attached. But nothing else since.

They had some approvals go through in the beginning, you know, for clout. But now that the ruling is at risk, would you, as a manager of a department that is required to be revenue generating, allocate your staff to rush to complete 245k-ish forms1 that were tax deferred prior to finding the outcome of the validity of the ruling?

My apologies if a dumb question.  I’ve really tried to keep up with it all, but I’m still confused:

Is there anything that is still currently a LEGAL braced pistol?

It means they've received it. It doesn't mean they've bothered to look at it. You'll get an email once it's approved. Knowing that won't stop you from checking their website (been there), but don't expect to actually look and see it's been approved if you haven't got the email. The chances aren't in your favor.

No, there are no legal braced pistols based on the ATF's rule....which is a little fact all the gun grabbers seem to forget ignore.  

However, if you are under one of the injunctions (state of TX Employee, GOA, FPC, SAF, purchased from Maxim Defense), you are still good to go with your braced pistol.   We will see if the NRA gets in on the injunction as well.

Thanks for the information.  Very much appreciated.

For me, I don't care if the brace ban is over turned...I mean, I care, for everyone and the 2A, but in this case, I want an SBR regardless and I want my freebie stamp!  If it's over turned, I'll put together a braced pistol later.

At first I thought that was sarcasm, but it is not.  At least you are being honest, and I don't think you are alone.  Truth be told, based on some of the comments posted over the years on this topic, I personally believe that there is a sub-section of folks that are beyond ambivalent to the rule. I think there are some folks that would quietly "prefer" to see the rule stand for a variety of reasons.

I don't want it stand, in fact I'd prefer the NFA, GCA, and even the ATF itself to be abolished all together.  But, concerning the brace ban, I wanted to form 1 mine into an SBR before the ban anyway. I just saw this as an opportunity to get it done for free, so that's why I filed my form 1.  I absolutely don't agree with this ruling at all, but at the same time, I'm not one that's going to thumb my nose at it or any of the other ridiculousness because the potential consequences aren't worth it.  I'm also very aware of what some here think of that, and that's fine, you do you is my take on it.    

Unfortunately, my form 1 still just sitting as "submitted" since April 27.  I suspect, as others have said, with the current injunction and the fight from the various pro-gun organizations, they might have halted processing until everything shakes out.  I dunno, that's just a guess, so we'll see.

I can't necessarily fault you for wanting to save $200 on something that you were going to do anyway.  But, by doing so AFT got some some statistics to justify their directive scam.  On the positive, they didn't get nearly the response they had hoped for and I am glad that I didn't pad their stats.  I would have liked to have gotten a free SBR as well, but I couldn't convince myself that it was worth the price I would have to pay.

There's a curious logic that paying the $200 fee and engraving, is somehow not used as a metric of acceptability.   Everyone who elected to pay, has basically elected to acknowledge that the onerous NFA cost, delay, and requirements, are totally fine.  That's better?   I get those who just refuse outright, as an "FU it's my right, and the NFA entirely is bullshit".  You're pissing into the wind, but at least I get it and of course support that.  But somehow having paid for it, is less damaging, is a logic I just can't follow.   I guess at its heart on why our fellow gun-owners who did traditional NFA registration are OK, and others who took the forbearance are somehow not; is there's a continued head-in-sand that failure to enforce obvious NFA SBR violations for the last 5+ years, is "making up new laws".  It's not, it's a resumption of enforcement of clearly written law, that ATF fucked up and didn't enforce for 5 years.  Hamster-logic all you want, but that's what really happened.  You don't get to call a full-auto trigger group a "can opener", and get away with it - as much as I wish you could.  Even if I snowed ATF into saying "ok, that's fine" for a few years, eventually they're going to go... waiiitt a minute, you were lying and misrepresenting what that is, and its intent.  That, and the interpretation of the ATF "letters" was way more generous than actual reality of what they said, and what they said it applied to.  Hopefully the courts will take this opportunity to overturn NFA entirely - but they won't.  There's also an interpretation that the ATF might just "psyche! we now reneg!" on the USAG signed letter.  That's a whole different documentation ball-game than some random ATF clerk "letter".  USAG authority is clearly defined, and he clearly documented and exercised in his authority the forbearance.  You can't claw that back after the fact - that'll get tossed by the court immediately.  

But, at this point, it's all academic - as the door is now closed, and very very few people went through it.  I'd say well less than 100,000.  I'll be surprised if more than 75,000 individuals participated.  Not sure if that's going to be good, bad, or irrelevant in the ensuing suits.  I also am not sure if any of the suits actually mean jack shit.  Unless the suit includes tossing the NFA; the law remains, and the ATF remains.  If that item is made or remade to be shoulder fired, it's in violation.  Just calling it an "armbrace" will *POOF* and go away, the moment they bring in an extorted shipping clerk who says "we knew people were intending to shoulder fire this, and marketed to that".   All the champagne "we won" at reversing the ruling letter, goes away - because now they aren't actually arm-braces anymore.  Don't think that's not the next chess move plan if they "lose" in court.  Only way this goes away, is if NFA SBR goes away - and that's not happening; regardless of what "solidarity" people force on others even at 100% participation and not a single person did the forbarance/amnesty/whatever thing.  

This has been a shit-show to watch, and seeing some otherwise cool people get consumed by rage and trying to dominate other gun owners over this topic has been my 6th greatest disappointment in things of 2023 so far.  

Why is this post in the tech-forum; because the technical interpretation of what all this actually means, was the point.  Delete (And apparently, report), as you wish.

SBR prosecutions WERE a relatively small percentage before all this as mostly a tack on charge. You could say not enough to make a movement but with the net cast wide now to milions it'll be interesting to see when and if and under what circumstances the FEDs will decide to enforce this. Whether we like to admit it or not if someone is prosecuted for the SBR and that charge alone, a lot will depend on where (state) and the jury make-up. Admittedly a gamble that I see neither the defense and maybe the prosecution necessarily want to take. Of course, the prosecution has unlimited funds and is guaranteed to go home to their family no matter the outcome. Even if the NFA isn't overturned our best bet is to impress on our elected officials to do everything they can to limit money that can be used by an agency for enforcement. In the case of the ATF just keep cutting the budget every chance they get.

I'm certainly in agreement with that.  As to enforcement - I anticipate basically no enforcement of pre-existing armbrace configured firearms with <16" BBL's.  Ruling is now live; anyone seeing any house-to-house raids for armbraced firearms?  no - and that's not going to happen.  For the most part it will be 922r level internet forum priority level; where the only people on the planet who actually care about 922r once the item is off the Customs dock; are internet hand-wringers.   That said, commercial level manufacture and sale of armbraced guns going forward is going to be treated as straight up SBR violations; which is why PSA et al. pulled all that months ago.  Private citizens, and in particular, those with pre-June '23 armbrace guns still with the armbrace; will mostly be ignored.  Those few who are not, will face a seizure and sent on their way.   Criminal charges will essentially only happen as a pile-on charge.  The biggest PITA with armbrace guns, sadly, will be from ourselves; in the form of gun-range and shooting-event busy-bodies.

I agree 100%.  Also another reason IDGAF because I shoot on private land.

Anybody who has tossed their brace(s) because of this is a fool, or overly paranoid, or both.  I have said from the get go that there aren't going to be any issues unless you shoot somebody with your braced pistol.  And, even if you do shoot someone who broke into your home there will be ample time before the authorities arrive to remove and dispose of the offending attachment.  Or, if you live in the country you can just take matters into your own hands....

what if someone ratted you out?

I guess that puts you into this category?


If that is a legitimate concern of yours, you need to surround yourself with a different circle.

I don't see myself "padding" any stats.  I already padded stats when I filed my form 4 for a suppressor and waited 13 months and 3 days for them to "approve" it.  So, I've already "given in to da man" as it were.  My form 1 was precisely to get a freebie.  So they have my form 1, so what.  They already know who I am (and they knew who I was even before that), so it really doesn't matter.  I spent 24 years in the military with 20 of it in intel.  I held a TS SCI clearance for the entire 20 years.  They have my DNA, my finger prints and probably know more about me than I do about myself for that matter.  

I don't thumb my nose or spit in their eye because I'm paranoid or scared.  I have land, I can shoot all I want on it, but I also want to be able to go to the range without a busy-body turning me in.  I don't want to be at the wrong end of the ATF because I find such circumstances incredibly inconvenient.  There is a place and time to "revolt", but being a single "extremist" example will do absolutely nothing to further the pro-gun agenda.  Instead, I would truly become some padding for the anti-agenda.  A media whipping boy for the establishment to parade about.    

As for the opinion of anyone here to the contrary, heh, do you think I'm losing any sleep over it?  Like I said, you do you.  

If the shit really does hit the fan, I'm pretty sure all of this will simply be academic with zero meaning, but for now, a single person, or some here and some there thumbing their noses won't amount to squat, except to feed the anti frenzy.

Bi-Partisan House Coalition Votes to Nullify Biden
Administration Pistol Brace Rule


https://www.nraila.org/articles/20230619/bi-partisan-house-coalition-votes-to-nullify-biden-administration-pistol-brace-rule

Or buy a shovel, friend. Nobody likes a rat.  It’s not conducive to a long life.

I am a bit confused about pistols and pistol braces.
I have a lower I purchased as "Other".
Built a pistol upper in 277 Wolverine with a brace with that lower and ran it with a suppressor. (I have a tax stamp for the suppressor)
It was the perfect truck gun.

As soon as all this crapola started, and before the law went into effect, I removed the short barrel and pistol buffer tube and brace and converted it back to a long barrel rifle.

So, what do I have to do to be in compliance?

Do I need to destroy the pistol brace only? Or the brace and the pistol tube?

Or can I just store both away from my rifle?

You are already in compliance.

Brace = stock
now.

You can reassemble it as a pistol (with no brace) if you want.
That brace is now just like any other stock. There's no need to destroy anything.

What he said ^^^

Once you put the 16" barrel on that receiver it became compliant.  Ain't nobody gonna come pounding on your door asking about pistol braces anyway.  Throw it in a box until the SCOTUS slaps AFT silly and throws the whole thing out.

Thanks

I got one more approval back, and one rejection for an "incomplete form." They claim as follows:

SERIAL NUMBER AND/ OR MODEL IN PHOTO PROVIDED DOES NOT MATCH THE SERIAL NUMBER AND MODEL PROVIDED ON
THE FORM 1. PLEASE RESUBMIT WITH CORRECTED INFORMATION. PLEASE SUBMIT A PAPER ATF FORM 1 APPLICATION
WITH CORRECTED INFORMATION WITHIN 60 DAYS OF YOUR RECEIPT OF THIS DISAPPROVAL. FOR THE APPLICATION TO
MAINTAIN TAX-EXEMPT STATUS, PLEASE INCLUDE WITH YOUR PAPER APPLICATION A COPY OF YOUR DISAPPROVED EFORM
1, WHICH IS INCLUDED AS AN ATTACHMENT TO THIS EMAIL. THE PAPER APPLICATION CAN BE LOCATED ON THE ATF.GOV
WEBSITE USING THE FOLLOWING LINK: FORM 1 - APPLICATION TO MAKE AND REGISTER A FIREARM (ATF FORM 5320.1) |
BUREAU OF ALCOHOL, TOBACCO, FIREARMS AND EXPLOSIVES. FOR PROPER PROCESSING, PLEASE MAIL THE COMPLETED
PAPER APPLICATION INCLUDING ANY REQUIRED SUPPLEMENTAL DOCUMENTS (INCLUDING FINGERPRINTS &
PHOTOGRAPHS) TO BATFE, P.O. BOX 5015, PORTLAND, OR 97208-5015.

Has anybody dealt with this particular rejection before? The photo and model information I submitted were correct.

Take another pic from perhaps a slightly different angle where all characters are as clear as possible.  Im sure what you sent was legible, but maybe the 2 second look they took was an unfortunate mistake.

eForm 1 submitted 4/27/2023.  Today, 6/23/2023 still sitting in "submitted" status.

Sigh...

I can one up you.

Submitted 1/14.

They said FBI were taking forever to do my background check.

I have 3 NFA items. No issues.

I guess I can go F myself then huh.

Follow TexasPistolero and Carryhandlelife on FB & IG - he's the Mock in Mock vs Garland

Submitted 4/27/2023, now rolling into 7/5/2023...still no change in status.  Sigh.

Good morning Gents,

I have had my head in the sand for a while regarding this and have no idea where we're at with the legalities.  It looks like they must all be registered.  Can someone please point me in the direction of the latest information on this and what we have to do if we have braces?

I appreciate it immensely.  Regards,

Eric

Too late for the free registration.  If you want to legally keep your short barreled "pistol" now, you need to go the old fashioned way and fork over $200 per.  Or, join SAF and then be covered by their injunction until this sees it's way to the high court.

9mm AR approved. Approximately 75 days.

I heard that the NRA finally got off their @zzes and filed, on their own, in the 5th District Circuit Court in Dallas, TX last week.  Their first attempt to simply piggyback on the FCP case blew up in their faces and called out by the courts as a weak play.

Hopefully, this will be granted for every NRA member as well.  If this happens, AND the NRA decides to put their resources to work, instead of giving themselves pay raises and expensive gifts/vacations, they might once again be taken seriously by a significant amount of their loyal Life and Yearly members.  

I am an NRA Life Member and I haven’t been too happy with them for the last few years.  If they win this and prove to me that they want to un-phuck themselves, I might see them in a different light and quit throwing all their “give us money” letters straight into the trash.

They have basically been invisible on the brace issue and the new assault weapons/parts and magazine ban in Washington State and I do not count issuing a press release as fighting for our 2A rights.

If the NRA fails on the brace issue, I will jump ship to the GOA and the FPC AND not look back after being with them since the late 1980s, during the first assault weapons ban. If the NRA wins, than there is a far better chance of this whole brace issue going away for good… If the NRA fights with all their resources and political connections.

Well said.  I'm a lifetime endowment member and in my opinion, they went down hill shortly after that turd Wayne LaPierre took over.  We all recall the scandal with them using the money for luxurious vacations and such.  

They will never get another penny from me until LaPierre is out.  Sadly, they renewed the jerk's tenure.

I submitted mine than too and I just got them back today the 11th of July. I’m a FFL too.

Day 75 here, still nothing.

Woot! Day 76, received the email, approved.  Finally!

Do I have to wait until I get the actual stamp in the mail, or is this electronic approval good enough to build out my SBR?

Makes me feel better I submitted 5/2. Nothing yet I heard of some done quick others not so quick.

Based on other's replies, it seems 70-75-ish days is about the average.  Still beats the 13 months and 3 days I waited for my paper form 4 for a suppressor.