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6.5 Grendel FAQ (Page 6 of 10)
"Comfort level" is up to the individual and, as you noted, shot placement is critical with any caliber. A guy in Alaska regularly shoots caribou and wolves with his 6.5 Grendel, and he and his buddy both killed moose with their Grendels using handloaded 6.5mm 120 Barnes X-Bullets. Of course, white-tail and mule deer and hogs and coyotes, and a cow elk, have been shot with Grendels. I don't actually know if anyone's shot a bull elk yet. You can check the hunting section of my Website, listed below. John | 6.5 Grendel: The Tier One AR Cartridge. | www.65grendel.com |
Hai guise! What's going on here?  Okay, I just read all 11 pages of this thread; any general updated about the future of this cartridge? By the charts, graphs and numbers it looks awesome; the 6.8 much less so. What is going in terms of suppliers, and it's deathmatch with the 6.8? |
No real 'deathmatch' here. Both 6.X rounds do what the designers asked of them. Try looking at 65grendel.com for the newest and bestest in Grendeland. The 68forums.com have a lot of great information as well. |
I don't pay any attention to the 6.8, but I can say with certainty that the 6.5 Grendel is taking-off. More vendors are being introduced all the time for complete guns, uppers, and barrels. As has been mentioned, www.65grendel.com is a great place to start. |
"There are over 550 million firearms in worldwide circulation. That's one firearm for every twelve people on the planet. The only question is: How do we arm the other 11?" - Yuri Orlov
Well, the moose didn't cooperate ... ... but the bull elk sure did. "LaRue Elk Hunt Story W/Pics" 405 yards across the canyon - deader than a ... 
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God Bless Our Troops ... Especially Our Snipers.
www.LaRue.com
ETA - We've done the math. ;-) You learn things while building 100,000+ mounts ... and we include it in every mount going out our door. ML
www.LaRue.com
ETA - We've done the math. ;-) You learn things while building 100,000+ mounts ... and we include it in every mount going out our door. ML
I heard a rumor that Mark LaRue shot a bull elk with his 6.5 Grendel, and I thought to myself, "I didn't think they allowed firearms in the Cabela's showroom!"  Seriously, good shootin' and have yourself some good eatin'!  John | 6.5 Grendel: The Tier One AR Cartridge. | www.65grendel.com |
Some guy tried to claim my elk was his elk. I previled, but he begged me to at least let him pull his heirloom saddle off . 
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God Bless Our Troops ... Especially Our Snipers.
www.LaRue.com
ETA - We've done the math. ;-) You learn things while building 100,000+ mounts ... and we include it in every mount going out our door. ML
www.LaRue.com
ETA - We've done the math. ;-) You learn things while building 100,000+ mounts ... and we include it in every mount going out our door. ML
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I know this is slightly off topic re: hunting, but with pending Obamafication of the US, it's time to be looking for a backup upper, and I have to admit that based on the information, the 6.5G looks quite impressive compared to the 6.8. BUT- It sure strikes me as weird that there's all this licensing and secretive stuff going on with it. The three or four times I've spoken to those closely involved with the cartridge, they have been disturbingly arrogant and defensive. It stinks, because the Grendel does at first glance seem like the superior cartridge, but I worry that it's gonna be an Apple vs IBM thing all over again. One is superior (Apple/6.5G) but due to seemingly poor decision making on the part of the developers, something that is close but not quite there (IBM/6.8) gets more acceptance and development and eventually "catches up" simply due to the better decisions about access to the product made by the developers. 6.8 has a large number of products available, and those involved with it seem to be making continuing development from wide open input, while every time I turn around, on the Grendel forum there's a post about how "this dealer is licensed" but "that dealer is no longer licensed" for 6.5G. If no one can use something without a license, then how the heck is it supposed to be developed by widespread input and feedback? Kinda like the gov't-only R&D systems: with only limited groups involved, it seems the input and ideas available from a large user-population would be missed. It's unfortunate. 6.5G seems clearly the better cartridge, but some of the decisions by the people behind it seem difficult to understand...  This is not meant as an inflammatory post. Rather, it is a wish that 6.5G would get better widespread acceptance and access. |
Wait till LaRue inserts himself into the mix.
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At least when you buy a grendel you won't have to worry about what ammo is safe for your barrel. There have been many changes in the 6.8 and the barrel my brother bought a few years ago will not safely shoot some of the new ammo or accurately shoot some other ammo. Another friend of mine has 2 6.8 uppers, one of them blows primers if he shoots ammo in it that he has for the other upper. |
"War is less costly than servitude. The choice is always between Verdun and Dachau." -Jean Dutourd
Isn't your senator the one named Feinstein or Pelosi or some such ?? ETA - My comment was meant as similarly irrelevant to the situation at hand. 
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God Bless Our Troops ... Especially Our Snipers.
www.LaRue.com
ETA - We've done the math. ;-) You learn things while building 100,000+ mounts ... and we include it in every mount going out our door. ML
www.LaRue.com
ETA - We've done the math. ;-) You learn things while building 100,000+ mounts ... and we include it in every mount going out our door. ML
The licensing program may seem to be "poor decision-making" compared to standard practice, but, in the absence of a major player picking up the cartridge, it was the only way a small company could bring it to market and maintain the necessary standardization, without which the program would have floundered and Alexander Arms would have pissed away their development money. Some even in the 6.8 SPC camp would argue that the introduction and management of the 6.8 cartridge by a major player such as Remington didn't necessarily prevent "poor decision making." Will the performance of the 6.8 "catch up" to the 6.5 Grendel? Let's think about this logically: (1) If the latest 6.8 SPC developments have truly discovered some principles or techniques that have escaped the world's militaries for the past 100 years (don't you think they'd have done everything possible to get "free" velocity gains while maintaining workable pressures if there were no downside?), then what's to prevent the 6.5 Grendel from applying those same principles? (2) If the 6.8 SPC is using the latest state-of-the-art powders, what's to prevent the 6.5 Grendel from using the latest powder developments? (3) If the 6.8 SPC has some purpose-designed bullets that emphasize fragmentation on the one hand or penetration on the other, what's to prevent the 6.5 Grendel from having purpose-designed bullets? So I don't think the 6.8 SPC is going to come up with anything revolutionary that the 6.5 Grendel can't also use, and the 6.5 Grendel will always have a shorter case length which allows bullets with better BCs, which help minimize wind drift and trajectory estimation errors at long range, which overcome the 6.8 SPC's muzzle velocity advantage within about 75 yards, and the high-sectional densities of long 6.5mm bullets aid penetration. Are the difference minor? Sure, but that's the world of ballistics. Guys will kill each other arguing about the .280 Rem vs. the .270 Win!  Again, the 6.5 Grendel can do everything at short range the 6.8 SPC can do, but the 6.8 SPC can't do everything the 6.5 Grendel can do at long range. To me, it's a no-brainer. But does it matter for the majority of deer hunters? Not much. Does it matter for military usage? Yes, if an intermediate cartridge is to be used not only in assault rifles but also in longer-range weapons like DMRs and MGs then 6.5 Grendel is the clear choice.
Ummm . . . anyone can buy and use a 6.5 Grendel without a license and give input and feedback. Do you mean to say "manufacture and market" without a license? That's a different story. And the licensed manufacture base of 6.5 Grendel is continually growing, if that's your concern.
Some of us in the 6.5 Grendel camp are very pleased with the latest directions the enthusiastic user-population has been taking the 6.8 SPC, so I can see your point.
Agreed! John | 6.5 Grendel: The Tier One AR Cartridge. | www.65grendel.com |
Our beloved Senators are Diane Feinstein and Barbera Boxer! Oh, how we are so blessed! California is truly a shooters paradise! You should consider moving your business here. |
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3crowns, you make the Apple/6.5G and IBM/6.8 comparison, but isn't there something to be said about the success of the Ipod, Itunes, Iphone, etc? Personally I don't have a Macintrash PC, but they are sure cool! I'll stick with a bastard mix of a 6.5G and a Windows machine I guess... |
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So if I want to build a competition quality upper for this... Can I just buy a Kreiger 6.5 barrel blank, order a reamer from JGS, buy a bolt, and bolt extension and then ship the mess off to Compass Lake and have it assembled? I keep reading stuff about licensing fees and I guess I don't understand how you "license" a cartridge spec. |
Velocity? You would lose maybe 100fps at the muzzle, but either way you're still EASILY supersonic out to 800 yards. Accuracy? You won't lose any since accuracy has absolutely nothing to do with barrel length.
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"There are over 550 million firearms in worldwide circulation. That's one firearm for every twelve people on the planet. The only question is: How do we arm the other 11?" - Yuri Orlov
Hmmm, maybe I'm the first with an elk over 400 yards ? Headin' to the website. ML |
God Bless Our Troops ... Especially Our Snipers.
www.LaRue.com
ETA - We've done the math. ;-) You learn things while building 100,000+ mounts ... and we include it in every mount going out our door. ML
www.LaRue.com
ETA - We've done the math. ;-) You learn things while building 100,000+ mounts ... and we include it in every mount going out our door. ML
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Ahh well... I have all 4 now officially.... ( I have Mac's and a PC due to the law school requiring me to take exams on software only created for Windows and a few 6,8's and a bolt 6.5 G which is currently having some mods done). I think each one has its benefits, the apple for certain applications, the PC for others, same for the 6.8 and the 6,5 G. I personally think the 6,5 G has interesting potential in a bolt gun, so I went that route. If LaRue builds a 6.5 G upper I'd buy one of his for my AR stable without question. Mostly because I personally have not be thrilled by the looks of the stock uppers offered in 6.5 G (I like to be different, I get bored seeing the same thing on here all the time) and a LaRue stealth 6.5 G would not be common around these parts, that is for sure. So Mark.... get those babies cranked out will ya? I got money to burn. |
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That's great. Uncertainty of how/where I could get one built was the biggest thing holding me back. Where can I order a barrel extension from? I see that AA offers the bolt as a separate catalog item... |
Uhhm, I have the closest thing to the very first Larue Stealth Grendel that there is. This build waited for the very first batch of Stealth Receivers to be built.  |
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Bug, Nice stick, but I dont see to many 6.5 G's like it... while its close, is it using a LaRue barrel? After seeing one of his Stealth's in action at a Magpul Dynamics 2 class this weekend at AAC's skirmish range, I'd like a few of LaRue's barrels. I'd like a LaRue built 6.5 G personally. I got about everything else they sell, from my 50 to my 3 gunner rig, if LaRue makes it, Im usually sold on it. 
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Well it has a Lothar-Walther barrel, and as far as I know mark hasn't said who makes his barrels, but there is something about his barrels that make me think they are Lothar-Walther. I can't remember exactly, but I think they are made from a Lothar-Walther proprietary steel or process, something like LW150. But in reality I'm just goofing with you, I know my upper isn't the same as a Larue built Stealth. |
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Does it shoot as good as it looks? I'd love to see some groups. The two LW barrels I have are fantastic, so I have no doubt that one is "lights out" accurate too. My plan with the bolt gun is a ultra light weight short compact mountain rifle with "long range" capability, will see if it pans out. You guys know I don't hunt in a box blind all season... it may go to Canada in 2009 if it gets completed and I have time to shoot it at my 1000 yard range with confidence. |
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It's a reliable sub-moa shooter. 0.75 moa is fairly easy, but I've had days when I was on and averaged 0.5 moa for the day. It is not a hunting rifle though, the damn thing weighs close to 13 pounds, but all that weight and the MSTN QC Brake means that I can watch the bullet hit the target. I pretty much built it for long range matches. I just built another lighter grendel to use in the more action oriented Sniper style matches, but I still have to decide on the glass for it. I'm also gonna buy a Match Grade Machine barrel for my T/C Encore in Grendel to use as a light weight hunting rifle for javalina, deer, and antelope (if I can ever get drawn )
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Which MSTN QC break did you get the one bored out for 6.8? |
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Yes, and then I had Randall (@ ar15barrel.com) custom fit it to my big, fat barrel. (He cut the brake off where the taper matched the OD of the barrel, the re-cut the barrel, timed it so I didn't need a crush washer, and re-crowned the barrel.)  |
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Thats nice, Randall is good in my book. Randall did one one of my 3 gun barrels, I wish he posted here still, I personally feel he does great work. No custom smith is fast, and he was right up there with Marty as far as education and experience I was told... ETA: what block is that? |
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I think it's a PRI, But I think it's a special order ar10 sized. It came with the Barrel, Bolt, Gas Block Kit I got. |
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Originally Posted By Grendelizor:
Commonly speaking, 6.5mm is equivalent to .264". John | 6.5 Grendel: The Tier One AR Cartridge. | www.65grendel.com Ah yes, my beloved .264.
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God Bless Our Troops ... Especially Our Snipers.
www.LaRue.com
ETA - We've done the math. ;-) You learn things while building 100,000+ mounts ... and we include it in every mount going out our door. ML
www.LaRue.com
ETA - We've done the math. ;-) You learn things while building 100,000+ mounts ... and we include it in every mount going out our door. ML
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Doubtful. It is a wierd thread. Can't remember what it is though. Go to 65grendel.com and search or ask. Just don't be sarcastic and negative about why it is a different thread and why they couldn't have just made it the same as the 6.8 barrel threading, or you might get banned.
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Stay away from wolf its unreliable from the factory and while I have never reloaded it everyone is saying the brass can only be reloaded once before it becomes such hassle to size that it isn't worth it. Pick up some different AA factory loads and maybe some blackhills, shoot it see what your gun likes and you have Lapua brass that should be good for 5+ quality reloads. Enjoy the new toy and thanks for what you're doing over there.
Tim |
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The original WOLF brass was a bit soft and the primer pockets became loose after one, or two, reloads.
The 120gr MPT brass seems a bit better. Still because WOLF uses a LR primer, You need to reduce your charges ~ 1.0gr, as compared to the AA/Lapua brass, which takes SR primers. |
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Originally Posted By Grendelizor:
Commonly speaking, 6.5mm is equivalent to .264". John | 6.5 Grendel: The Tier One AR Cartridge. | www.65grendel.com Wrong John, 6.5mm refers to the bore size, not the groove size, which makes it 6.5 millimeters = 0.255905512 inches. Punch in all the metric caliber sizes and see if they don't. Even 7.62mm doesn't equal .308. There's a difference when you talk about groove and bore diameters. You would have been more accurate to say that 6.5mm equates to a commonly .264 groove diameter...BUT if you look at all the 6.5mm's made around the world one time or another that doesn't hold true either as they will run from .264 to .268 generally. JFA |
I had Shilen barrel me a 6.5-270 back in the mid-70s, and as far back as then, 6.5 meant .264, and vice versa. And that bullet diameter and cartridge was Warren Page's favorite sheep medicine ... fond memories.
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God Bless Our Troops ... Especially Our Snipers.
www.LaRue.com
ETA - We've done the math. ;-) You learn things while building 100,000+ mounts ... and we include it in every mount going out our door. ML
www.LaRue.com
ETA - We've done the math. ;-) You learn things while building 100,000+ mounts ... and we include it in every mount going out our door. ML
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Originally Posted By Grendelizor:
Joe, the key words are "commonly speaking." The guy asking seemed to be a newbie so I wanted to answer his question directly and didn't want to complicate the issue unnecessarily. John | 6.5 Grendel: The Tier One AR Cartridge. | www.65grendel.com No better way to indoctrinate a newbie to leave him in confusion on what bore and groove diameters are, especially if he gets into reloading. Sorry John, I like technical....never believed in talking to children in baby talk. JFA |
6.5 Grendel FAQ (Page 6 of 10)
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