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Early 602 project (Page 1 of 3)
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Posted: 11/12/2023 2:45:27 PM EDT
[Last Edit: akaLoneStar][Edited]
Sharing my progress on my early 602 clone project. Still missing several parts and pieces, but it's coming along.    
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Originally Posted By Kalahnikid: Nice! I love 602's. I have a pretty decent early 602 myself if you're looking for info or pics of anything. Yes. Pictures would be much appreciated. You may want to refresh this now. Sorry for my speed in uploading photos correctly. Always been tricky getting the images right using imur. |
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Originally Posted By akaLoneStar: Yes. Pictures would be much appreciated. You may want to refresh this now. Sorry for my speed in uploading photos correctly. Always been tricky getting the images right using imur. You've got the upper and type C stock, those are two of the hard parts to find! What are you going to do for a barrel? The lower parts are out there, they're just...pricey. |
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Originally Posted By Kalahnikid: You've got the upper and type C stock, those are two of the hard parts to find! What are you going to do for a barrel? The lower parts are out there, they're just...pricey. Still missing several parts and pieces. Some are tougher than others to find. I have 1 big item remaining. I need a lead on a barrel... |
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Originally Posted By akaLoneStar: https://i.imgur.com/RFMhpjC.jpeg Right now I am planning on using this pre-prepped lower. The picture above shows everything I have right now. Still missing several parts and pieces. Some are tougher than others to find. I have 1 big item remaining. I need a lead on a barrel... What made you take on such a difficult project? Im guessing like me you stumbled into some parts and snowballed from there.  I started with the barrel I found local for cheap and thought I was going to do an XM16E1 build until I did more research and found it was a 602 barrel...then I was like, shit. This is gonna be more expensive.  If you get it done its going to be very satisfying! |
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Originally Posted By Kalahnikid: What made you take on such a difficult project? Im guessing like me you stumbled into some parts and snowballed from there. I started with the barrel I found local for cheap and thought I was going to do an XM16E1 build until I did more research and found it was a 602 barrel...then I was like, shit. This is gonna be more expensive. If you get it done its going to be very satisfying! Something like that, lol. More of just watching for parts on other projects and always keeping an eye out for 601 & a 602 parts and pieces. |
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| The Smithsonian is a pretty good resource for 602s. They have about 4 on their website, one of which is a belt fed conversion |
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The 602 had a few changes during it's short production run. I don't know if the info helps but... Off the top of my head: Uppers went from having the rear area right above the charging handle beveled at an angle to a the standard round profile that we still have today, charging handles went from the early triangle to the modern T shape, bolt release buttons went from the 601 style to the style having a little nub to push at the bottom with the angled portion retaining the serrations of the 601 style, and barrels changed from VP12 to MVP12 (I think) |
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Originally Posted By Kalahnikid: The 602 had a few changes during it's short production run. I don't know if the info helps but... Off the top of my head: Uppers went from having the rear area right above the charging handle beveled at an angle to a the standard round profile that we still have today, charging handles went from the early triangle to the modern T shape, bolt release buttons went from the 601 style to the style having a little nub to push at the bottom with the angled portion retaining the serrations of the 601 style, and barrels changed from VP12 to MVP12 (I think)  My original post shows a regular AR-15 T shaped charging handle. I threw a repop triangle on it since it is an early upper receiver. It has the angle cut tang above the charging handle and a hole drilled for the ejection port door spring. An original triangle CH is on the list to be hunted. I have a 601 bolt release which I believe is appropriate for the early upper. |
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This is a decent thread from a few years back. |
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Yes, that is a good thread. In the thread was it said that some type C have red writing on them. I'm not sure I could tell the difference between C&D, but mine does not have red writing... |
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Dont pay too much attention to the presence of writing or not. Link |
"History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid"
"A people that values its privileges above its principles soon loses both"
“So Freedom Will Reign”
"A people that values its privileges above its principles soon loses both"
“So Freedom Will Reign”
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There's a guy in the EE selling original 601-602 Charging handles. Haven't needed to buy one in nearly 8 years, so the price seems high, however I don't know the current prices for the triangle charging handles. Here's the link https://www.ar15.com/forums/Equipment-Exchange/Original-COLT-Parts-601-Charging-Handles-3-Prong-Flash-Hiders-Slip-Rings-M16A1-Type-D-Stocks/159-2316415/ |
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Originally Posted By HipSh0T: There's a guy in the EE selling original 601-602 Charging handles. Haven't needed to buy one in nearly 8 years, so the price seems high, however I don't know the current prices for the triangle charging handles. Here's the link https://www.ar15.com/forums/Equipment-Exchange/Original-COLT-Parts-601-Charging-Handles-3-Prong-Flash-Hiders-Slip-Rings-M16A1-Type-D-Stocks/159-2316415/ Thanks, found them. |
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Originally Posted By akaLoneStar: Thanks, found them. Originally Posted By akaLoneStar: Originally Posted By HipSh0T: There's a guy in the EE selling original 601-602 Charging handles. Haven't needed to buy one in nearly 8 years, so the price seems high, however I don't know the current prices for the triangle charging handles. Here's the link https://www.ar15.com/forums/Equipment-Exchange/Original-COLT-Parts-601-Charging-Handles-3-Prong-Flash-Hiders-Slip-Rings-M16A1-Type-D-Stocks/159-2316415/ Thanks, found them. Glad to help 
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Originally Posted By akaLoneStar: Any leads on 602 parts, please send my way. Barrel, BCG and Edgewater buffer top the list right now. Try emailing Machinehead for the BCG, that's who I got all my chrome 601-604 BCGs from over the years. I know he still selling BCGs as recently as a few months ago so it's 100% worth a shot. I've bought so many BCGs from him over the last 10 years that I couldn't even guess and tell you a number. [email protected] |
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Originally Posted By HipSh0T: Try emailing Machinehead for the BCG, that's who I got all my chrome 601-604 BCGs from over the years. I know he still selling BCGs as recently as a few months ago so it's 100% worth a shot. I've bought so many BCGs from him over the last 10 years that I couldn't even guess and tell you a number. [email protected] Good idea. |
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Good luck with the build brother. Im a sucker for 601s, but the 602 is truly the cream of the crop in civilian hands. By far the rarest of the standard rifles (ie not including special carbines, and other prototypes like the 605, 606, 607, etc). |
"History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid"
"A people that values its privileges above its principles soon loses both"
“So Freedom Will Reign”
"A people that values its privileges above its principles soon loses both"
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Originally Posted By AmericanSheepDog: Good luck with the build brother. Im a sucker for 601s, but the 602 is truly the cream of the crop in civilian hands. By far the rarest of the standard rifles (ie not including special carbines, and other prototypes like the 605, 606, 607, etc). They are addicting. Appreciate everyones' help. |
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Originally Posted By M16indiana: I own two complete 602’s (with properly profiled and engraved receivers) and really love them. At one time I had five complete rifles, but over time sold off three of them as parts. Attached File Hurts my heart to think of giving up 602's! When you have 5 though, I can understand. Would have loved to get those parts. Man, I'll bet you have seen some good stuff. The difference I've seen just in the last couple of years is crazy. The parts have become so scarce... |
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Originally Posted By akaLoneStar: Any thoughts on what to look for on the BCG? Also, which sling would the 602 have had? Early chrome carrier with the later gas key, there's two different styles (Full Round, and 3/4 Round) with nice square top stakes or small round top stakes. The bolt is chrome and MP marked, there's two different styles of band, narrow and wide. The firing pin should be a flathead by this point, and your retainer pin will look exactly like the early SP1 retainer pins but be chromed. |
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Originally Posted By HipSh0T: Early chrome carrier with the later gas key, there's two different styles (Full Round, and 3/4 Round) with nice square top stakes or small round top stakes. The bolt is chrome and MP marked, there's two different styles of band, narrow and wide. The firing pin should be a flathead by this point, and your retainer pin will look exactly like the early SP1 retainer pins but be chromed. I think the firing pin adjustment is more of a late 602 and/or 603 604 adjustment. Fat Heads were around for the early XM prototypes, and Colt was still tinkering with the firing pin in December of ‘63. |
"History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid"
"A people that values its privileges above its principles soon loses both"
“So Freedom Will Reign”
"A people that values its privileges above its principles soon loses both"
“So Freedom Will Reign”
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Originally Posted By AmericanSheepDog: I think the firing pin adjustment is more of a late 602 and/or 603 604 adjustment. Fat Heads were around for the early XM prototypes, and Colt was still tinkering with the firing pin in December of ‘63. Originally Posted By AmericanSheepDog: Originally Posted By HipSh0T: Early chrome carrier with the later gas key, there's two different styles (Full Round, and 3/4 Round) with nice square top stakes or small round top stakes. The bolt is chrome and MP marked, there's two different styles of band, narrow and wide. The firing pin should be a flathead by this point, and your retainer pin will look exactly like the early SP1 retainer pins but be chromed. I think the firing pin adjustment is more of a late 602 and/or 603 604 adjustment. Fat Heads were around for the early XM prototypes, and Colt was still tinkering with the firing pin in December of ‘63. I’m not sure on the BCG, but I am thinking on an early 602 it should be the same as a late 601, right? Slickside chrome w/ Heavy Flat Head “Fat” firing pin. Should it have a “P” or “MP” bolt? Pretty sure Kalahnkid said Narrow band too. Full round or ¾ round key? |
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| Ill do some digging… that said, theres a difference. There’s “Fat Head” and “Flat Head” firing pins. Fat are the 601 style, Flat are the later style, which were made by just milling down Fat Head firing pins |
"History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid"
"A people that values its privileges above its principles soon loses both"
“So Freedom Will Reign”
"A people that values its privileges above its principles soon loses both"
“So Freedom Will Reign”
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Best I can do on short notice. The BCG below is from an XM16E1 prototype, built on a 602 receiver. Other than the carrier with forward assist notches, this bcg is likely very similar to early 602 bcg’s. On Nov 4th, 1963, the M16 / XM16E1 contract was awarded to Colt. According to The Black Rifle, 11 changes (including the lightening of the firing pin) were made before production began. Another mentioned change that “happened before production” was the change to the T charging handle. We know that this change happened somewhere in the middle 602 production, not before it. I would surmise that the the change to the flat head firing pin would be similar. To answer the question, you can see a narrow band bolt. I forget when the MP marking came about, but I would guess that MP is likely correct as mentioned. Attached File |
"History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid"
"A people that values its privileges above its principles soon loses both"
“So Freedom Will Reign”
"A people that values its privileges above its principles soon loses both"
“So Freedom Will Reign”
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I forgot to mention that the Cam pin isn't chromed like everything else Originally Posted By AmericanSheepDog: Ill do some digging… that said, theres a difference. There’s “Fat Head” and “Flat Head” firing pins. Fat are the 601 style, Flat are the later style, which were made by just milling down Fat Head firing pins I don't remember, did you run into any real 602s on your museum tour? I'd sure like to see a BCG from a known real production 602 and compare it to what we all are saying. |
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No, no real 602s I’ve run into. I don’t have access to my Vickers guide either at the moment since I’m overseas. I need to contact the Smithsonian for some pics of their 602s at some point. |
"History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid"
"A people that values its privileges above its principles soon loses both"
“So Freedom Will Reign”
"A people that values its privileges above its principles soon loses both"
“So Freedom Will Reign”
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Originally Posted By AmericanSheepDog: Best I can do on short notice. The BCG below is from an XM16E1 prototype, built on a 602 receiver. Other than the carrier with forward assist notches, this bcg is likely very similar to early 602 bcg’s. On Nov 4th, 1963, the M16 / XM16E1 contract was awarded to Colt. According to The Black Rifle, 11 changes (including the lightening of the firing pin) were made before production began. Another mentioned change that “happened before production” was the change to the T charging handle. We know that this change happened somewhere in the middle 602 production, not before it. I would surmise that the the change to the flat head firing pin would be similar. To answer the question, you can see a narrow band bolt. I forget when the MP marking came about, but I would guess that MP is likely correct as mentioned. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/463351/IMG_0240_jpeg-3031407.JPG Considering the old thread I linked below this is what an early 602 BCG might include: Chrome slickside carrier Chrome full round key is possible but unlikely, but should/could be partial round Chrome retainer Chrome narrow band bolt "Fat" firing pin is possible but unlikely, but should/could be a "Flat Head" "MP' marked bolt Not sure round or square staking??? If the 601 ran to mid-year 1963 and then the 602 was approved by MacNamara in July 1963 it for sure could make an early 602 on the fence on a couple of parts. Please see attached link to a thread in here from 2019 between Bob & Tom Bolt Carrier and Bolt Timeline - Help Nedded! |
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Originally Posted By akaLoneStar: Considering the old thread I linked below this is what an early 602 BCG might include: Chrome slickside carrier Chrome full round key is possible but unlikely, but should/could be partial round Chrome retainer Chrome narrow band bolt "Fat" firing pin is possible but unlikely, but should/could be a "Flat Head" "MP' marked bolt Not sure round or square staking??? If the 601 ran to mid-year 1963 and then the 602 was approved by MacNamara in July 1963 it for sure could make an early 602 on the fence on a couple of parts. Please see attached link to a thread in here from 2019 between Bob & Tom Bolt Carrier and Bolt Timeline - Help Nedded! Originally Posted By akaLoneStar: Originally Posted By AmericanSheepDog: Best I can do on short notice. The BCG below is from an XM16E1 prototype, built on a 602 receiver. Other than the carrier with forward assist notches, this bcg is likely very similar to early 602 bcg’s. On Nov 4th, 1963, the M16 / XM16E1 contract was awarded to Colt. According to The Black Rifle, 11 changes (including the lightening of the firing pin) were made before production began. Another mentioned change that “happened before production” was the change to the T charging handle. We know that this change happened somewhere in the middle 602 production, not before it. I would surmise that the the change to the flat head firing pin would be similar. To answer the question, you can see a narrow band bolt. I forget when the MP marking came about, but I would guess that MP is likely correct as mentioned. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/463351/IMG_0240_jpeg-3031407.JPG Considering the old thread I linked below this is what an early 602 BCG might include: Chrome slickside carrier Chrome full round key is possible but unlikely, but should/could be partial round Chrome retainer Chrome narrow band bolt "Fat" firing pin is possible but unlikely, but should/could be a "Flat Head" "MP' marked bolt Not sure round or square staking??? If the 601 ran to mid-year 1963 and then the 602 was approved by MacNamara in July 1963 it for sure could make an early 602 on the fence on a couple of parts. Please see attached link to a thread in here from 2019 between Bob & Tom Bolt Carrier and Bolt Timeline - Help Nedded! I'd be looking for top square stakes first because I've always felt the square were factory and top round were done by armorers, replacement, etc. but I'm not certain. I'm thinking MP thin band for your bolt with a 3/4 round gas key carrier, chrome machined retaining pin, and lastly a flat head firing pin. |
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| When I had my 602, the way I understood it was if the upper have the angled back above the charging handle it was the early version, so the bcg would have been full round carrier, narrow band "P" marked bolt no oil drain hole, machined retainer pin, fat head firing pin, the rounded ear version would of had the mp narrow band marked bolt the flat head firing pin and still the machined retainer pin photos in the vicker guide 2nd edition also suppport this info. |
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Originally Posted By HipSh0T: I'd be looking for top square stakes first because I've always felt the square were factory and top round were done by armorers, replacement, etc. but I'm not certain. I'm thinking MP thin band for your bolt with a 3/4 round gas key carrier, chrome machined retaining pin, and lastly a flat head firing pin. Square makes sense to me and I believe my oldest slickside bolt carriers are square staked. However, my oldest are parkerized so I have no true reference on hand. I agree by timeline in old post and paperwork it is most likely as you stated above. There is always a chance that they used remaining parts from the 601's. |
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Originally Posted By Retroenthusiast67: When I had my 602, the way I understood it was if the upper have the angled back above the charging handle it was the early version, so the bcg would have been full round carrier, narrow band "P" marked bolt no oil drain hole, machined retainer pin, fat head firing pin, the rounded ear version would of had the mp narrow band marked bolt the flat head firing pin and still the machined retainer pin photos in the vicker guide 2nd edition also suppport this info. I highlighted in red above items I haven't thought of before. This is very interesting. I will continue to research this more. |
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Originally Posted By HipSh0T: Keep in mind that parts take time to switch over to new changes, example: Colt added a step the bolt carriers in 1995, however I had a NOS replacement BCG in bag dated 1/96 that still had a non-stepped carrier. I'm sure that is more true than we know. Will consider that for sure. I haven't given up on the "Fat Head" firing pin yet either. I purchased just a "Fat Head" firing pin by itself yesterday. You just don't see them often enough. |
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Originally Posted By akaLoneStar: I'm sure that is more true than we know. Will consider that for sure. I haven't given up on the "Fat Head" firing pin yet either. I purchased just a "Fat Head" firing pin by itself yesterday. You just don't see them often enough. Where you located in TX? PM me. I might have your solution. |
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601 and 602 bolt carrier keys should be 2 small round stake marks across from each other. To tighten up loose keys a slightly deeper and larger (diameter) stake was struck. In some cases a 3rd and or a 4th round stake mark was added. Square stakes came out later, sometime in the XM16E1/603 production. 601/602 keys were often restaked with square stakes to tighten up the key, by using the square stake it deformed/replaced the original small round stake.. Earliest to latest is left to right. 3rd one is a chrome XM16E1 (w/serrations) square stake , 4th is a no C mark XM16E1/603, square stake originally then had 2 side stakes (V shape) added at each screw.. 1st 2 on left show the small round stake. Attached File |
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Boy,I'd love to stumble across a Redfield Jr. one piece base marked 40X on the bottom
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Originally Posted By m1sniper: 601 and 602 bolt carrier keys should be 2 small round stake marks across from each other. To tighten up loose keys a slightly deeper and larger (diameter) stake was struck. In some cases a 3rd and or a 4th round stake mark was added. Square stakes came out later, sometime in the XM16E1/603 production. 601/602 keys were often restaked with square stakes to tighten up the key, by using the square stake it deformed/replaced the original small round stake.. Earliest to latest is left to right. 3rd one is a chrome XM16E1 (w/serrations) square stake , 4th is a no C mark XM16E1/603, square stake originally then had 2 side stakes (V shape) added at each screw.. 1st 2 on left show the small round stake. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/182845/IMG_0223_jpg-3035446.JPG Thanks for that picture and explanation. That was a question I was struggling with. |
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Originally Posted By m1sniper: 601 and 602 bolt carrier keys should be 2 small round stake marks across from each other. To tighten up loose keys a slightly deeper and larger (diameter) stake was struck. In some cases a 3rd and or a 4th round stake mark was added. Square stakes came out later, sometime in the XM16E1/603 production. 601/602 keys were often restaked with square stakes to tighten up the key, by using the square stake it deformed/replaced the original small round stake.. Earliest to latest is left to right. 3rd one is a chrome XM16E1 (w/serrations) square stake , 4th is a no C mark XM16E1/603, square stake originally then had 2 side stakes (V shape) added at each screw.. 1st 2 on left show the small round stake. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/182845/IMG_0223_jpg-3035446.JPG Interesting, so every early carrier I've had were all restaked square when I believed that they were originally done that way. |
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Originally Posted By HipSh0T: Interesting, so every early carrier I've had were all restaked square when I believed that they were originally done that way. Originally Posted By HipSh0T: Originally Posted By m1sniper: 601 and 602 bolt carrier keys should be 2 small round stake marks across from each other. To tighten up loose keys a slightly deeper and larger (diameter) stake was struck. In some cases a 3rd and or a 4th round stake mark was added. Square stakes came out later, sometime in the XM16E1/603 production. 601/602 keys were often restaked with square stakes to tighten up the key, by using the square stake it deformed/replaced the original small round stake.. Earliest to latest is left to right. 3rd one is a chrome XM16E1 (w/serrations) square stake , 4th is a no C mark XM16E1/603, square stake originally then had 2 side stakes (V shape) added at each screw.. 1st 2 on left show the small round stake. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/182845/IMG_0223_jpg-3035446.JPG Interesting, so every early carrier I've had were all restaked square when I believed that they were originally done that way. In 08 timeframe when you and I joined there was a member who at the time was quite active. He was instrumental in setting up Ekies guides (altho we never see creds). There was a famous pic you may remember of several dozen chrome bolt carrier groups sitting all lined up nice and neat on a table, they were his. He and Ekie went back and forth regarding "chrome" cam keys, He is the one who determined that there are no original Colt made chrome cam keys and proved ones that looked chrome were from extensive wear. I learned about BCGs from him. You likely remember this name, Leid. I think he moved on from here in about 2011-12 after he sold off all those carriers.. I still keep in touch with him but nowadays it's regarding M14s. One thing he had me do, on early carriers that have the square stake, he had me use a jewelers loop and look down into the square stake and look for the remains of the small round stake caused from the very tip of the round stake. Most cases I didn't see any as the square stake was struck solid, but in a couple of cases I could see what he was talking about. Tiny round dimple at the bottom of the square stake. I had saved all written info he PMed me back then but lost it all in a puter crash in about 2015. |
DON'T EVER DOUBT THE TALENTS OF HEATNBEAT!
Boy,I'd love to stumble across a Redfield Jr. one piece base marked 40X on the bottom
Boy,I'd love to stumble across a Redfield Jr. one piece base marked 40X on the bottom
Early 602 project (Page 1 of 3)
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