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Early 602 project (Page 2 of 3)
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Originally Posted By m1sniper: In 08 timeframe when you and I joined there was a member who at the time was quite active. He was instrumental in setting up Ekies guides (altho we never see creds). There was a famous pic you may remember of several dozen chrome bolt carrier groups sitting all lined up nice and neat on a table, they were his. He and Ekie went back and forth regarding "chrome" cam keys, He is the one who determined that there are no original Colt made chrome cam keys and proved ones that looked chrome were from extensive wear. I learned about BCGs from him. You likely remember this name, Leid. I think he moved on from here in about 2011-12 after he sold off all those carriers.. I still keep in touch with him but nowadays it's regarding M14s. One thing he had me do, on early carriers that have the square stake, he had me use a jewelers loop and look down into the square stake and look for the remains of the small round stake caused from the very tip of the round stake. Most cases I didn't see any as the square stake was struck solid, but in a couple of cases I could see what he was talking about. Tiny round dimple at the bottom of the square stake. I had saved all written info he PMed me back then but lost it all in a puter crash in about 2015. Originally Posted By m1sniper: Originally Posted By HipSh0T: Originally Posted By m1sniper: 601 and 602 bolt carrier keys should be 2 small round stake marks across from each other. To tighten up loose keys a slightly deeper and larger (diameter) stake was struck. In some cases a 3rd and or a 4th round stake mark was added. Square stakes came out later, sometime in the XM16E1/603 production. 601/602 keys were often restaked with square stakes to tighten up the key, by using the square stake it deformed/replaced the original small round stake.. Earliest to latest is left to right. 3rd one is a chrome XM16E1 (w/serrations) square stake , 4th is a no C mark XM16E1/603, square stake originally then had 2 side stakes (V shape) added at each screw.. 1st 2 on left show the small round stake. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/182845/IMG_0223_jpg-3035446.JPG Interesting, so every early carrier I've had were all restaked square when I believed that they were originally done that way. In 08 timeframe when you and I joined there was a member who at the time was quite active. He was instrumental in setting up Ekies guides (altho we never see creds). There was a famous pic you may remember of several dozen chrome bolt carrier groups sitting all lined up nice and neat on a table, they were his. He and Ekie went back and forth regarding "chrome" cam keys, He is the one who determined that there are no original Colt made chrome cam keys and proved ones that looked chrome were from extensive wear. I learned about BCGs from him. You likely remember this name, Leid. I think he moved on from here in about 2011-12 after he sold off all those carriers.. I still keep in touch with him but nowadays it's regarding M14s. One thing he had me do, on early carriers that have the square stake, he had me use a jewelers loop and look down into the square stake and look for the remains of the small round stake caused from the very tip of the round stake. Most cases I didn't see any as the square stake was struck solid, but in a couple of cases I could see what he was talking about. Tiny round dimple at the bottom of the square stake. I had saved all written info he PMed me back then but lost it all in a puter crash in about 2015. Yeah, Ekie's post are still extremely helpful today. I wasn't on the forum back then and never had heard the name Leid before. It is great that you keep in touch with him. Now I will be buying a jewler's loop, lol. ;) |
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Originally Posted By m1sniper: In 08 timeframe when you and I joined there was a member who at the time was quite active. He was instrumental in setting up Ekies guides (altho we never see creds). There was a famous pic you may remember of several dozen chrome bolt carrier groups sitting all lined up nice and neat on a table, they were his. He and Ekie went back and forth regarding "chrome" cam keys, He is the one who determined that there are no original Colt made chrome cam keys and proved ones that looked chrome were from extensive wear. I learned about BCGs from him. You likely remember this name, Leid. I think he moved on from here in about 2011-12 after he sold off all those carriers.. I still keep in touch with him but nowadays it's regarding M14s. One thing he had me do, on early carriers that have the square stake, he had me use a jewelers loop and look down into the square stake and look for the remains of the small round stake caused from the very tip of the round stake. Most cases I didn't see any as the square stake was struck solid, but in a couple of cases I could see what he was talking about. Tiny round dimple at the bottom of the square stake. I had saved all written info he PMed me back then but lost it all in a puter crash in about 2015. Originally Posted By m1sniper: Originally Posted By HipSh0T: Originally Posted By m1sniper: 601 and 602 bolt carrier keys should be 2 small round stake marks across from each other. To tighten up loose keys a slightly deeper and larger (diameter) stake was struck. In some cases a 3rd and or a 4th round stake mark was added. Square stakes came out later, sometime in the XM16E1/603 production. 601/602 keys were often restaked with square stakes to tighten up the key, by using the square stake it deformed/replaced the original small round stake.. Earliest to latest is left to right. 3rd one is a chrome XM16E1 (w/serrations) square stake , 4th is a no C mark XM16E1/603, square stake originally then had 2 side stakes (V shape) added at each screw.. 1st 2 on left show the small round stake. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/182845/IMG_0223_jpg-3035446.JPG Interesting, so every early carrier I've had were all restaked square when I believed that they were originally done that way. In 08 timeframe when you and I joined there was a member who at the time was quite active. He was instrumental in setting up Ekies guides (altho we never see creds). There was a famous pic you may remember of several dozen chrome bolt carrier groups sitting all lined up nice and neat on a table, they were his. He and Ekie went back and forth regarding "chrome" cam keys, He is the one who determined that there are no original Colt made chrome cam keys and proved ones that looked chrome were from extensive wear. I learned about BCGs from him. You likely remember this name, Leid. I think he moved on from here in about 2011-12 after he sold off all those carriers.. I still keep in touch with him but nowadays it's regarding M14s. One thing he had me do, on early carriers that have the square stake, he had me use a jewelers loop and look down into the square stake and look for the remains of the small round stake caused from the very tip of the round stake. Most cases I didn't see any as the square stake was struck solid, but in a couple of cases I could see what he was talking about. Tiny round dimple at the bottom of the square stake. I had saved all written info he PMed me back then but lost it all in a puter crash in about 2015. I do remember him and that picture with all the early BCGs lined up but either didn't pay enough attention at the time or didn't soak the info in, I was pretty new to ARs when I lucked into the piles of Retro parts that ultimately led to me joining this site. Back then both of our concerns were to get me caught up to speed on values, so I didn't get taken advantage of, there was so many members were making me trade offers, etc. (some of which were heavily lopsided) when it was shared that I had a pile of early barrels and was looking to trade some to fund builds. You were one of the very few that reached out to educate me in hopes that I didn't get ripped off and I really appreciate that looking back. 
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Originally Posted By HipSh0T: I do remember him and that picture with all the early BCGs lined up but either didn't pay enough attention at the time or didn't soak the info in, I was pretty new to ARs when I lucked into the piles of Retro parts that ultimately led to me joining this site. Back then both of our concerns were to get me caught up to speed on values, so I didn't get taken advantage of, there was so many members were making me trade offers, etc. (some of which were heavily lopsided) when it was shared that I had a pile of early barrels and was looking to trade some to fund builds. I learned to keep a really good score to myself when I bought a group of waffle mags. |
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Originally Posted By HipSh0T: I do remember him and that picture with all the early BCGs lined up but either didn't pay enough attention at the time or didn't soak the info in, I was pretty new to ARs when I lucked into the piles of Retro parts that ultimately led to me joining this site. Back then both of our concerns were to get me caught up to speed on values, so I didn't get taken advantage of, there was so many members were making me trade offers, etc. (some of which were heavily lopsided) when it was shared that I had a pile of early barrels and was looking to trade some to fund builds. You were one of the very few that reached out to educate me in hopes that I didn't get ripped off and I really appreciate that looking back. Originally Posted By HipSh0T: Originally Posted By m1sniper: Originally Posted By HipSh0T: Originally Posted By m1sniper: 601 and 602 bolt carrier keys should be 2 small round stake marks across from each other. To tighten up loose keys a slightly deeper and larger (diameter) stake was struck. In some cases a 3rd and or a 4th round stake mark was added. Square stakes came out later, sometime in the XM16E1/603 production. 601/602 keys were often restaked with square stakes to tighten up the key, by using the square stake it deformed/replaced the original small round stake.. Earliest to latest is left to right. 3rd one is a chrome XM16E1 (w/serrations) square stake , 4th is a no C mark XM16E1/603, square stake originally then had 2 side stakes (V shape) added at each screw.. 1st 2 on left show the small round stake. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/182845/IMG_0223_jpg-3035446.JPG Interesting, so every early carrier I've had were all restaked square when I believed that they were originally done that way. In 08 timeframe when you and I joined there was a member who at the time was quite active. He was instrumental in setting up Ekies guides (altho we never see creds). There was a famous pic you may remember of several dozen chrome bolt carrier groups sitting all lined up nice and neat on a table, they were his. He and Ekie went back and forth regarding "chrome" cam keys, He is the one who determined that there are no original Colt made chrome cam keys and proved ones that looked chrome were from extensive wear. I learned about BCGs from him. You likely remember this name, Leid. I think he moved on from here in about 2011-12 after he sold off all those carriers.. I still keep in touch with him but nowadays it's regarding M14s. One thing he had me do, on early carriers that have the square stake, he had me use a jewelers loop and look down into the square stake and look for the remains of the small round stake caused from the very tip of the round stake. Most cases I didn't see any as the square stake was struck solid, but in a couple of cases I could see what he was talking about. Tiny round dimple at the bottom of the square stake. I had saved all written info he PMed me back then but lost it all in a puter crash in about 2015. I do remember him and that picture with all the early BCGs lined up but either didn't pay enough attention at the time or didn't soak the info in, I was pretty new to ARs when I lucked into the piles of Retro parts that ultimately led to me joining this site. Back then both of our concerns were to get me caught up to speed on values, so I didn't get taken advantage of, there was so many members were making me trade offers, etc. (some of which were heavily lopsided) when it was shared that I had a pile of early barrels and was looking to trade some to fund builds. You were one of the very few that reached out to educate me in hopes that I didn't get ripped off and I really appreciate that looking back. I like to think we watched out for each other.  We were both learning. We were lucky as hell to have some of the older members back then who were stand up guys.. But there are always a few snakes... Leid taught me a lot, then when Machinehead started selling, he taught me a lot too. I soaked it up.We're lucky now many years later that we have a select few who have taken what Capt. Richardson, Tgus, Ekie, DEwatters, Scottryan, Thatguy ,( who are named in RBR) and are going the extra miles in search of real deal examples and info. I forget which ole timer it was that gave me the moniker "anal meticulous" as I asked so damn many Qs to get things right. For me, good enough was never good enough!! Hip, lemme ask you this one that goes back a long time ago. Do you remember who it was that observed that there is a slight shape difference in the upper uncoated sling swivels in the 601-602 timeframe?  |
DON'T EVER DOUBT THE TALENTS OF HEATNBEAT!
Boy,I'd love to stumble across a Redfield Jr. one piece base marked 40X on the bottom
Boy,I'd love to stumble across a Redfield Jr. one piece base marked 40X on the bottom
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Originally Posted By m1sniper: I like to think we watched out for each other. We were both learning. We were lucky as hell to have some of the older members back then who were stand up guys.. But there are always a few snakes... Leid taught me a lot, then when Machinehead started selling, he taught me a lot too. I soaked it up.We're lucky now many years later that we have a select few who have taken what Capt. Richardson, Tgus, Ekie, DEwatters, Scottryan, Thatguy ,( who are named in RBR) and are going the extra miles in search of real deal examples and info. I forget which ole timer it was that gave me the moniker "anal meticulous" as I asked so damn many Qs to get things right. For me, good enough was never good enough!! Hip, lemme ask you this one that goes back a long time ago. Do you remember who it was that observed that there is a slight shape difference in the upper uncoated sling swivels in the 601-602 timeframe? Originally Posted By m1sniper: Originally Posted By HipSh0T: Originally Posted By m1sniper: Originally Posted By HipSh0T: Originally Posted By m1sniper: 601 and 602 bolt carrier keys should be 2 small round stake marks across from each other. To tighten up loose keys a slightly deeper and larger (diameter) stake was struck. In some cases a 3rd and or a 4th round stake mark was added. Square stakes came out later, sometime in the XM16E1/603 production. 601/602 keys were often restaked with square stakes to tighten up the key, by using the square stake it deformed/replaced the original small round stake.. Earliest to latest is left to right. 3rd one is a chrome XM16E1 (w/serrations) square stake , 4th is a no C mark XM16E1/603, square stake originally then had 2 side stakes (V shape) added at each screw.. 1st 2 on left show the small round stake. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/182845/IMG_0223_jpg-3035446.JPG Interesting, so every early carrier I've had were all restaked square when I believed that they were originally done that way. In 08 timeframe when you and I joined there was a member who at the time was quite active. He was instrumental in setting up Ekies guides (altho we never see creds). There was a famous pic you may remember of several dozen chrome bolt carrier groups sitting all lined up nice and neat on a table, they were his. He and Ekie went back and forth regarding "chrome" cam keys, He is the one who determined that there are no original Colt made chrome cam keys and proved ones that looked chrome were from extensive wear. I learned about BCGs from him. You likely remember this name, Leid. I think he moved on from here in about 2011-12 after he sold off all those carriers.. I still keep in touch with him but nowadays it's regarding M14s. One thing he had me do, on early carriers that have the square stake, he had me use a jewelers loop and look down into the square stake and look for the remains of the small round stake caused from the very tip of the round stake. Most cases I didn't see any as the square stake was struck solid, but in a couple of cases I could see what he was talking about. Tiny round dimple at the bottom of the square stake. I had saved all written info he PMed me back then but lost it all in a puter crash in about 2015. I do remember him and that picture with all the early BCGs lined up but either didn't pay enough attention at the time or didn't soak the info in, I was pretty new to ARs when I lucked into the piles of Retro parts that ultimately led to me joining this site. Back then both of our concerns were to get me caught up to speed on values, so I didn't get taken advantage of, there was so many members were making me trade offers, etc. (some of which were heavily lopsided) when it was shared that I had a pile of early barrels and was looking to trade some to fund builds. You were one of the very few that reached out to educate me in hopes that I didn't get ripped off and I really appreciate that looking back. I like to think we watched out for each other. We were both learning. We were lucky as hell to have some of the older members back then who were stand up guys.. But there are always a few snakes... Leid taught me a lot, then when Machinehead started selling, he taught me a lot too. I soaked it up.We're lucky now many years later that we have a select few who have taken what Capt. Richardson, Tgus, Ekie, DEwatters, Scottryan, Thatguy ,( who are named in RBR) and are going the extra miles in search of real deal examples and info. I forget which ole timer it was that gave me the moniker "anal meticulous" as I asked so damn many Qs to get things right. For me, good enough was never good enough!! Hip, lemme ask you this one that goes back a long time ago. Do you remember who it was that observed that there is a slight shape difference in the upper uncoated sling swivels in the 601-602 timeframe? No, I don't but I'm guessing you do.... |
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Originally Posted By HipSh0T: No, I don't but I'm guessing you do.... Originally Posted By HipSh0T: Originally Posted By m1sniper: Originally Posted By HipSh0T: Originally Posted By m1sniper: Originally Posted By HipSh0T: Originally Posted By m1sniper: 601 and 602 bolt carrier keys should be 2 small round stake marks across from each other. To tighten up loose keys a slightly deeper and larger (diameter) stake was struck. In some cases a 3rd and or a 4th round stake mark was added. Square stakes came out later, sometime in the XM16E1/603 production. 601/602 keys were often restaked with square stakes to tighten up the key, by using the square stake it deformed/replaced the original small round stake.. Earliest to latest is left to right. 3rd one is a chrome XM16E1 (w/serrations) square stake , 4th is a no C mark XM16E1/603, square stake originally then had 2 side stakes (V shape) added at each screw.. 1st 2 on left show the small round stake. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/182845/IMG_0223_jpg-3035446.JPG Interesting, so every early carrier I've had were all restaked square when I believed that they were originally done that way. In 08 timeframe when you and I joined there was a member who at the time was quite active. He was instrumental in setting up Ekies guides (altho we never see creds). There was a famous pic you may remember of several dozen chrome bolt carrier groups sitting all lined up nice and neat on a table, they were his. He and Ekie went back and forth regarding "chrome" cam keys, He is the one who determined that there are no original Colt made chrome cam keys and proved ones that looked chrome were from extensive wear. I learned about BCGs from him. You likely remember this name, Leid. I think he moved on from here in about 2011-12 after he sold off all those carriers.. I still keep in touch with him but nowadays it's regarding M14s. One thing he had me do, on early carriers that have the square stake, he had me use a jewelers loop and look down into the square stake and look for the remains of the small round stake caused from the very tip of the round stake. Most cases I didn't see any as the square stake was struck solid, but in a couple of cases I could see what he was talking about. Tiny round dimple at the bottom of the square stake. I had saved all written info he PMed me back then but lost it all in a puter crash in about 2015. I do remember him and that picture with all the early BCGs lined up but either didn't pay enough attention at the time or didn't soak the info in, I was pretty new to ARs when I lucked into the piles of Retro parts that ultimately led to me joining this site. Back then both of our concerns were to get me caught up to speed on values, so I didn't get taken advantage of, there was so many members were making me trade offers, etc. (some of which were heavily lopsided) when it was shared that I had a pile of early barrels and was looking to trade some to fund builds. You were one of the very few that reached out to educate me in hopes that I didn't get ripped off and I really appreciate that looking back. I like to think we watched out for each other. We were both learning. We were lucky as hell to have some of the older members back then who were stand up guys.. But there are always a few snakes... Leid taught me a lot, then when Machinehead started selling, he taught me a lot too. I soaked it up.We're lucky now many years later that we have a select few who have taken what Capt. Richardson, Tgus, Ekie, DEwatters, Scottryan, Thatguy ,( who are named in RBR) and are going the extra miles in search of real deal examples and info. I forget which ole timer it was that gave me the moniker "anal meticulous" as I asked so damn many Qs to get things right. For me, good enough was never good enough!! Hip, lemme ask you this one that goes back a long time ago. Do you remember who it was that observed that there is a slight shape difference in the upper uncoated sling swivels in the 601-602 timeframe? No, I don't but I'm guessing you do.... PrivateSnafu.. The shape difference is soooo minute, but it is there!! Another pic I lost in a puter crash. |
DON'T EVER DOUBT THE TALENTS OF HEATNBEAT!
Boy,I'd love to stumble across a Redfield Jr. one piece base marked 40X on the bottom
Boy,I'd love to stumble across a Redfield Jr. one piece base marked 40X on the bottom
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Originally Posted By m1sniper: He and Ekie went back and forth regarding "chrome" cam keys, He is the one who determined that there are no original Colt made chrome cam keys and proved ones that looked chrome were from extensive wear. I learned about BCGs from him. Interesting, I have two original Colt made chrome cam keys that came from very low three digit serial numbered demilled 601’s. One, I cut out of the bolt assembly, and the other I left in the bolt assembly as proof of their provenance |
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Originally Posted By akaLoneStar: https://i.imgur.com/rwAWxJ3.jpgUpdate on progress. I have tracked down a charging handle, early buffer, and a BCG. Those parts look great, including the REAL DEAL 601/602 edgewater buffer, versus the later Edgewater buffers that are not correct for a 601 |
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Originally Posted By M16indiana: Those parts look great, including the REAL DEAL 601/602 edgewater buffer, versus the later Edgewater buffers that are not correct for a 601 Tom, can you expound upon this? Is it the dimple on the front or back? I have a bit of limited knowledge on this. |
"History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid"
"A people that values its privileges above its principles soon loses both"
“So Freedom Will Reign”
"A people that values its privileges above its principles soon loses both"
“So Freedom Will Reign”
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Originally Posted By AmericanSheepDog: Tom, can you expound upon this? Is it the dimple on the front or back? I have a bit of limited knowledge on this. Originally Posted By AmericanSheepDog: Originally Posted By M16indiana: Those parts look great, including the REAL DEAL 601/602 edgewater buffer, versus the later Edgewater buffers that are not correct for a 601 Tom, can you expound upon this? Is it the dimple on the front or back? I have a bit of limited knowledge on this. He posted a thread showing the differences a while back, I'll see if I can find it. Here it is https://www.ar15.com/forums/ar-15/Edgewater-buffer-varieties/123-768518/?fvx=1 |
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| That’s right, I remember this thread now. It’s really hard to keep all of this stuff straight haha. Thanks for finding it again. |
"History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid"
"A people that values its privileges above its principles soon loses both"
“So Freedom Will Reign”
"A people that values its privileges above its principles soon loses both"
“So Freedom Will Reign”
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Originally Posted By M16indiana: Those parts look great, including the REAL DEAL 601/602 edgewater buffer, versus the later Edgewater buffers that are not correct for a 601 So what you are saying is I need to keep looking for a correct time period Edgewater for my early 602 project, lol!!! I guess the pictured early Edgewater could be considered my first 601 part??? Attached File |
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Originally Posted By akaLoneStar: So what you are saying is I need to keep looking for a correct time period Edgewater for my early 602 project, lol!!! I guess the pictured early Edgewater could be considered my first 601 part??? /media/mediaFiles/sharedAlbum/tuco-313.jpg No, there are not enough 602’s out there to know if they used the 601 buffer or the later one. An earlier part can be correct, but a later part is not. I put 601 buffers in my 602’s. |
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Originally Posted By M16indiana: No, there are not enough 602’s out there to know if they used the 601 buffer or the later one. An earlier part can be correct, but a later part is not. I put 601 buffers in my 602’s. Originally Posted By M16indiana: Originally Posted By akaLoneStar: So what you are saying is I need to keep looking for a correct time period Edgewater for my early 602 project, lol!!! I guess the pictured early Edgewater could be considered my first 601 part??? /media/mediaFiles/sharedAlbum/tuco-313.jpg No, there are not enough 602’s out there to know if they used the 601 buffer or the later one. An earlier part can be correct, but a later part is not. I put 601 buffers in my 602’s. Okay. Either way it's okay, I am always trying to find 601 parts anyway. By your best estimation, when did they convert from the longer early buffers like mine? |
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| The bolt looks great, but I am still not onboard with fat head firing pins in a 602 bolt. From what I have read, the fat head firing pins were one of the first things Colt changed after the 601’s development, so I put flat head firing pins (modified fat head) in my 602’s. The same goes for the squared extractor. I think the fat head pins and squared extractors are strictly 601 parts. I think you have a nice 601 bolt assembly there, and the good news is that a “602 bolt assembly” is cheaper. However, as I said before, Colt often used earlier parts in later models, so it would not be INCORRECT in a 602 - especially since the 602 is one of the least documented Colt standard production rifles. |
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Originally Posted By M16indiana: The bolt looks great, but I am still not onboard with fat head firing pins in a 602 bolt. From what I have read, the fat head firing pins were one of the first things Colt changed after the 601’s development, so I put flat head firing pins (modified fat head) in my 602’s. The same goes for the squared extractor. I think the fat head pins and squared extractors are strictly 601 parts. I think you have a nice 601 bolt assembly there, and the good news is that a “602 bolt assembly” is cheaper. However, as I said before, Colt often used earlier parts in later models, so it would not be INCORRECT in a 602 - especially since the 602 is one of the least documented Colt standard production rifles. Okay. Well at least this will make a great 601 BCG. I will keep an eye out for a full round, p marked bolt, non-square extractor, w/ flat head firing pin. I may have a flat head pin already, but no extractor... I would rather leave this BCG intact for a 601 |
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Originally Posted By M16indiana: No, there are not enough 602’s out there to know if they used the 601 buffer or the later one. An earlier part can be correct, but a later part is not. I put 601 buffers in my 602’s. Update on progress: Found: barrel, BCG, and standard Edwater buffer. Barrel: VP 12 Cast BCG: Chrome slickside, full round, MP narrow band bolt w/ flathead firing pin Buffer: Edwater, no dimple I'm not convinced the later edwater is right for this rifle. Worst case is I can use it with another build later. Also, I will be saving the he older, longer, small bossed, deep dimpled edgewater for a 601 project..         
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Awesome project. And this thread highlights why I love this site so much. The collective level of knowledge here is incredible. Originally Posted By akaLoneStar: https://i.imgur.com/rwAWxJ3.jpgUpdate on progress. I have tracked down a charging handle, early buffer, and a BCG. Glorious. I foolishly sold an Edgewater buffer around 10 years ago for far too little. |
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Originally Posted By JoshNC: Awesome project. And this thread highlights why I love this site so much. The collective level of knowledge here is incredible. Glorious. I foolishly sold an Edgewater buffer around 10 years ago for far too little. Yeah that always stinks. My biggest regret is not buying everything I could find years ago when parts were more available and less costly... |
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Sling would be 601 (i think) Bayonet im not sure about Mags would be waffle or early colt mag |
"History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid"
"A people that values its privileges above its principles soon loses both"
“So Freedom Will Reign”
"A people that values its privileges above its principles soon loses both"
“So Freedom Will Reign”
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The "specific" 601 sling and bayonet were sold to Colt as part of a "package deal". Colt wanted to be the sole supplier when they produced the 601, rifle and accessories. For the 602, a cotton canvas M1 sling is arguably more correct. 601 bayonet was part of the package deal for the 601, so a Milpar or any of the other M-7 bayonet military contractors in that 602 time frame is more correct. Mags, while the waffles certainly could have been directed away from issued 601s, my 2 pennies says Colt/Armalite "transitional" as they've been called or Colt .223 marked mags with the aluminum followers. I have never found or heard from anyone who can state for sure exactly how a 601 rifle was "issued" to an Airman. Did that Airman receive all items from each package that included the rifle, specific sling, rubberized mag pouches, mags, bayo, energa site, straight handle lightweight cleaning rod? PS, not sure if I still have the "spare parts list" , but Colt was required to supply X amount of spare parts for each rifle. Possibly accessories too. Sooo, could/would spare parts/accessories from the 601 delivery be issued out to an Airman with a 602? Anything is possible. PPS. I once while chatting with Bill Ricca asked him about the 601 specific slings. He was familiar with them and stated that in his (paper) records he had a copy of the original contract. The contract was given to a "Mom and Pop" sail maker in either Mass or Maine (I forget). He was moving at the time and said once settled he'd pull it out and send me the info. Unfortunately that never happened and he's no longer with us. |
DON'T EVER DOUBT THE TALENTS OF HEATNBEAT!
Boy,I'd love to stumble across a Redfield Jr. one piece base marked 40X on the bottom
Boy,I'd love to stumble across a Redfield Jr. one piece base marked 40X on the bottom
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All of these rifles were claimed to be 602s on Retro Black Rifle. The last one im not sure about - It looks like it could be wearing a duckbill fh to me, but im including it Attached File Attached File Attached File |
"History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid"
"A people that values its privileges above its principles soon loses both"
“So Freedom Will Reign”
"A people that values its privileges above its principles soon loses both"
“So Freedom Will Reign”
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Yeah, it's tough to tell on those FHs. 2nd pic is Capt. Rybatt. Retired as a Major. Quite a bit out there to read about him. I put together my duck hunter camos based on what he's wearing. If top pic IS a 602, waffle in it. Last pic, if a 601, early regular mag. PS ASD, there is another good pic out there, soldier sitting on the ground was a topic of 601 discussions years ago. Pic not clear enough to positively ID if a 601 or 602. Might be in one of the real deal pic threads. |
DON'T EVER DOUBT THE TALENTS OF HEATNBEAT!
Boy,I'd love to stumble across a Redfield Jr. one piece base marked 40X on the bottom
Boy,I'd love to stumble across a Redfield Jr. one piece base marked 40X on the bottom
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Originally Posted By AmericanSheepDog: All of these rifles were claimed to be 602s on Retro Black Rifle. The last one im not sure about - It looks like it could be wearing a duckbill fh to me, but im including it https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/463351/IMG_1424_jpeg-3078797.JPG https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/463351/IMG_1425_jpeg-3078798.JPG https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/463351/IMG_1426_jpeg-3078800.JPG Photo 1: Could easily be a 602. Hard to know for sure being a black & white photo, but the stock looks too dark to be green so I'm assuming black furniture. Also the improved 3 prong hider. Waffle mag Photo 2: A little blurrier than the others. Again looks like Black stock to me. Standard mag Photo 3: Again looks like black furniture. Sling looks a little different after it loops back through the sling swivel. |
Callsign: “Destroyer 4” | USMA 2019
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Callsign: “Destroyer 4” | USMA 2019
Joined:
Feb 2017
Posts:
3391
EE: 100% (24)
CO, USA
Member
Joined:
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Originally Posted By m1sniper: The "specific" 601 sling and bayonet were sold to Colt as part of a "package deal". Colt wanted to be the sole supplier when they produced the 601, rifle and accessories. For the 602, a cotton canvas M1 sling is arguably more correct. 601 bayonet was part of the package deal for the 601, so a Milpar or any of the other M-7 bayonet military contractors in that 602 time frame is more correct. Mags, while the waffles certainly could have been directed away from issued 601s, my 2 pennies says Colt/Armalite "transitional" as they've been called or Colt .223 marked mags with the aluminum followers. I have never found or heard from anyone who can state for sure exactly how a 601 rifle was "issued" to an Airman. Did that Airman receive all items from each package that included the rifle, specific sling, rubberized mag pouches, mags, bayo, energa site, straight handle lightweight cleaning rod? PS, not sure if I still have the "spare parts list" , but Colt was required to supply X amount of spare parts for each rifle. Possibly accessories too. Sooo, could/would spare parts/accessories from the 601 delivery be issued out to an Airman with a 602? Anything is possible. PPS. I once while chatting with Bill Ricca asked him about the 601 specific slings. He was familiar with them and stated that in his (paper) records he had a copy of the original contract. The contract was given to a "Mom and Pop" sail maker in either Mass or Maine (I forget). He was moving at the time and said once settled he'd pull it out and send me the info. Unfortunately that never happened and he's no longer with us. Thanks for the info. I have found one 601 sling, but only one and will need it for a 601 unless I find another. A 601 bayonet is almost impossible to find and even harder to afford. Would an Armalite Gen 2 mag be more correct for my early 602 or a Colt AR-15 223 empty circle mag? |
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As shown in ASDs posted pics about, regardless of whether the rifles are 601s or 602s. We see a Waffle and post waffle mags. So arguably correct would be waffles, transitional Colt/Armalite .223 marked and Colt .223 marked for the time frame your looking to do. The only case where a specific mag would be "issued" with a rifle is most likely the early 601s and waffles , Colt wanted to be the "sole" supplier of the "package deal" that included the waffles. After that soldier walks into the arms room, gets issued a rifle, the armorer would issue the rifle and whatever mags were "on the shelf" so to speak. |
DON'T EVER DOUBT THE TALENTS OF HEATNBEAT!
Boy,I'd love to stumble across a Redfield Jr. one piece base marked 40X on the bottom
Boy,I'd love to stumble across a Redfield Jr. one piece base marked 40X on the bottom
|
Originally Posted By HipSh0T: Did we not ever have a tacked magazine evolution thread with detailed pictures? I was just looking for it to reference something for OP but can't find it..... Not that I recall. Maybe when I get a chance I can start one. |
We live in a world of lies, and that's the damn truth
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Originally Posted By HipSh0T: Did we not ever have a tacked magazine evolution thread with detailed pictures? I was just looking for it to reference something for OP but can't find it..... Not until now, but no… Alex just had a fat magazine collection he'd post photos of |
"History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid"
"A people that values its privileges above its principles soon loses both"
“So Freedom Will Reign”
"A people that values its privileges above its principles soon loses both"
“So Freedom Will Reign”
| There used to be "Troys maq faqs" but every time I went on it it messed with my puter. I also think Biggerhammer has something put together. |
DON'T EVER DOUBT THE TALENTS OF HEATNBEAT!
Boy,I'd love to stumble across a Redfield Jr. one piece base marked 40X on the bottom
Boy,I'd love to stumble across a Redfield Jr. one piece base marked 40X on the bottom
|
Originally Posted By Kalahnikid: Not that I recall. Maybe when I get a chance I can start one. Originally Posted By Kalahnikid: Originally Posted By HipSh0T: Did we not ever have a tacked magazine evolution thread with detailed pictures? I was just looking for it to reference something for OP but can't find it..... Not that I recall. Maybe when I get a chance I can start one. Awesome job by the way, we just need to get it tacked or whatever |
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Originally Posted By m1sniper: As shown in ASDs posted pics about, regardless of whether the rifles are 601s or 602s. We see a Waffle and post waffle mags. So arguably correct would be waffles, transitional Colt/Armalite .223 marked and Colt .223 marked for the time frame your looking to do. The only case where a specific mag would be "issued" with a rifle is most likely the early 601s and waffles , Colt wanted to be the "sole" supplier of the "package deal" that included the waffles. After that soldier walks into the arms room, gets issued a rifle, the armorer would issue the rifle and whatever mags were "on the shelf" so to speak. According to the worldbayonets.com the Milpar came too late to be on an early 602. I hope this is wrong because, as said before, an original Colt 62082 is really hard to find and afford. World Bayonets - Contract Summary World Bayonets ID Guide  |
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Originally Posted By M16indiana: Here are photos of some of my 602 slings. Two of these are dated 1/64, and one is dated 5/64. I have an identical sling dated 10/63 on one of my 602’shttps://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/432342/IMG_7485-3084253.jpg https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/432342/IMG_7486-3084254.jpg https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/432342/IMG_7487-3084258.jpg Those are in really good shape. Most of mine have rust stains and look like later production runs. None of mine have dates or the double rectangular crimps with dates in them.  either.
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Originally Posted By M16indiana: Here are photos of some of my 602 slings. Two of these are dated 1/64, and one is dated 5/64. I have an identical sling dated 10/63 on one of my 602’shttps://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/432342/IMG_7485-3084253.jpg https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/432342/IMG_7486-3084254.jpg https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/432342/IMG_7487-3084258.jpg One I've found does have the date stamped on the crimped end. 
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Early 602 project (Page 2 of 3)
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