Looks good!

ETA pic. Stealth and his brother, M4A1.
http://i1119.photobucket.com/albums/k639/altimeter2/mid3.jpg

Oh, you guys.

My tan sopmod showed up Wed. I haven't had time to even get it out.

Im selling my tan insight m3x kit in the EE if anyone wants it!

Oh i want it, just can't afford it.

What are you putting in place of it?

M300TN

That's a terrible light.......you should let me have it.

The m300a, right? I have a couple of those and I've been very happy with them. I've been using nothing but Surefire for years and I've never been disappointed. What's nice is that the 300 is just as bright as the earlier LED 600's that I still see popping up on the E&E quite a bit.

I've gone full circle from the thumbscrew, then the LaRue mount, then the Gear Sector offset scout mount and now back to the thumbscrew. I'll probably go to the LaRue QD standard mount again and stop there.

The only thing I don't like is that I can't use a KM2 (I think that's It, the IR head) on the 300 since it can only be used on 6 volt systems. I'm very tempted to pick up the m720v, but it's far too expensive right now. Hopefully they come down a bit, one hits the E&E or I get a T&E unit. I'm not holding my breath.

I'll trade you a black lab for it

Is it house broken???

Mine and another from today:

God this thread is tempting me to do the imprudent thing and just order a damned M4A1 RIS II...  

Any more "group" photos?

~Augee

Posted before

I just came back by the mention that I shot Rifleman at my first Appleseed this past weekend with my clone I assembled on Friday.  I shot a 222.  If you haven't been to a Appleseed, you need to go.

I was thinking of going to an Appleseed with one of my ARs, I shot a 214 my first AQT with my Marlin 795 LTR, think I could probably shoot a lot better using something with a 4x optic like my Elcan Specter DR......

Having gotten into something of a tiff with some BN Ops folks over including an Appleseed shoot in a pre-deployment MOB cycle less than three-months before boots on ground in country I will say I have to privately chuckle a moment about using a Block 2 M4A1 clone at an Appleseed.  

I think Appleseed is great training and instruction on fundamentals and rifle-craft, and it would be fantastic to see something like an Appleseed - iron sighted, be applied as a BRM type program at BCT or something on that level.  Unfortunately, taking a BN full of troops who are about to deploy and running them through a full Appleseed - in IOTV and full kit, even while saying things like "you might not actually be able to get into this position properly wearing all that."  

Appleseed is great traditional riflecraft and a great foundation of basic skills and technique for shooters to build upon, beginners and experienced alike.  What it isn't, though, is combat training for a modern combat theater (Afghanistan).  It was hell trying to re-train a battalion full of troops through everything from ARM to Squad and Convoy LFX to shoot in a non-linear combat environment and make use of their PPE and proper cover and concealment.  It's maddening to be on a convoy LFX range and see some solder standing three feet from a HMMWV in an NRA Highpower stance with his big ol' chicken wing up shooting an M4 with CCO in an IOTV because "that's what the Appleseed guys said to do."  

~Augee

what is appleseed?

Gotta love what some old Ops SGM can think of as 'good training'.

I think my M4A1 is about to turn into a mk12 "mod 1" clone. I like the rail length and everything but would prefer to have an 18" setup and then get a SBR in a few months

Get both

I did it

Yes, get all three SOCOM weapons/uppers. M4 Sopmod, Mk18, Mk12. I'm starting with the M4, then I don't know which one I'll do next. I don't have an SBR, so the Mk18 might be the second one.

In other news, I sent my 553 battery compartment back to Eotech to get repaired –– the contacts would come loose just by shaking it. Avoid 2008 manufacturing dates unless you want to get it fixed. At least I only had to pay shipping, though I really think they should cover that.

Budgetary matters make Assembling another rifle difficult. ARs are not my only weakness and for every rifle I buy/Build, my wife wants a new rifle too. Gets pricey.

The M4A1, in the block 2 configuration or another, is one of the most useful rifles I own. I had an 18" SPR a while back and would like to do a MK12 from Centurion, but I wouldn't give up my 14.5" or my mk18 for it. Then again, I own 2 Barretts, a SCAR H and a Remington 700, 3 of the 4 being more than accurate enough, so it's hard to justify the mk12... Though I'm sure I'll find a way!

Whether I owned any precision rifles or not, I don't think it's a good idea to give up a general use rifle for a precision rifle... But then again, it may make the most sense for your application.

I was thinking of having just a mk18 and a mk12. I would prefer all three, however that is a lot of AR platform.

The Mk18 and M4 can use the same lower, and the Mk12 can use a different lower with a Geissele in it. Or you could use the same lower for all of them. Not that much when you think about it.

My kac sights came in today. I'll get to see them tonight. Hopefully a black front is okay since at the time i couldn't find the taupe. Operationparts got them in a day after i bought these.

What model Phantom FH is pictured on the M4A1 with the FSP rails, is it the 5C1 or the 5C2?

I think it's just the standard Phantom four "pronged" flash suppressor, not the 5C1 or 2.  Hard to tell from the little picture, at first glance it looked like a Surefire flash suppressor mount to me.  Another interesting question of course is how he trains - as far as I know neither the Surefire flash suppressor mount nor the Phantom support the use of a BFA.  It would have to be removed and replaced with an A2 or M4QD comp each time the user did blank fire training.    

As the others have said - I too hope to eventually finish my "CQBR / M4A1 / MK12 SPR Trifecta" eventually.  

I'm currently pricing out options to put together a MK12 Mod 0 on an NDS-A1 lower.  The plan would be to eventually have all three uppers to throw into a Pelican 1750 case as a "deployment kit," "bugout kit," "SHTF kit," or whatever you want to call it.  Also looking at the Giselle SSA-E trigger as an "all purpose" trigger assembly that I can put in my primary lower as well as the NDS MK12 "home" lower.  

I preferred to start with the M4A1 setup as others have mentioned, it's the superior general purpose upper configuration.  The 14.5" barrel is short and manueverable for CQC, but it's also long enough to make solid hits at range with sufficient velocity - all you have to do is switch gas.  Think of how many people are dumping their "SPR" setups for "recce" setups - which a SOPMOD Block 2 M4A1 clone basically fits perfectly.  My current M4A1 setups are all "Block 1.5" for the moment, while I've got Block 1 and Block 2 CQBR uppers.  

The next step is to get a DD rail and go full up Block 2 RIS on one of my M4A1 uppers and start on the MK12.  If I could only have one, though, it would probably be the M4A1 setup, Block 1 or 2.  It's hard to beat the utility of a 14.5" barreled rifle system, which, in my opinion gives a good user ownership of ground anywhere from 0-600m easily using the right optics.  

The SBRs are fun and handy and have the CDI factor, but at the end of the day, the suppressed CQBR is the same length as the M4A1 without a suppressor - meaning that for indoors and vehicle use, it's functionally identical, it just doesn't have the noise attenuation factor.  

The MK12 SPR on the other hand will extend your range out perhaps to 800m engaging accurately, but those extra 200m will not only cost you a great deal to build the upper, but the price of the glass that would make that work would cost enough to build you another whole rifle - on the other hand, the MK12 is much heavier and much less manueverable, uses many more proprietary parts (i.e. many parts in the CQBR / M4A1 are common compared to the MK12, either Mod) and is not going to be as effective "all around" as either of the other two.  

In my eyes, the precision rig - for most uses should be the last priority - at the end of the day, it's least critical that you score good first round hits on an 800m target, because you can whack 'em again when they come in to 400m and 200m and 100m with the M4A1.  Precision and sniper systems of course have their applications in tactical situations, but I'd much rather have a section of riflemen for most tasks than a section of scout snipers and spotters.  

Now, if you just plain old want a MK12, and want one more than you want an M4A1, then it's just a hobby - by all means, go for it!  

~Augee

Not to point out the obvious, but I am sure that has to do with big Army giving those way so freely.

Often, ARSOF is the last to get stuff via SOCOM, or has to rely on a big Army fielding.

Without a doubt - but, if SOCOM felt the need for something different, I have no doubts they would have contracted for something other than the MATECH.  Consider the other "duplication in efforts" that the SOPMOD Increment 2 includes: why bother soliciting a successor to the ECOS-N when those very same CompM2s and CompM4s are what big Army's handing out on all their carbines?  Or why not simply add an MRD requirement to the AN/PVQ-31B (TA31RCO-M4) already being issued by big Army to fill the 4x DOS requirement?  Even the ACOG based SU-237/PVS (TA01ECOS) was apparently insufficient and SOCOM procured the SU-230/PVS-C (ELCAN SpecterDR).  

Furthermore, if you look at those earlier PowerPoint presentations I linked to, they include as part of the "Increment 2" requirements that they were seeking a "BIS II" (Backup Iron Sight II) much as they were seeking a RIS II.  Among the competitors IIRC for the BIS II were ARMS and KAC.  Later presentations seem to have dropped the BIS II program while SOCOM (all components) weapons are more and more frequently showing up with MATECH BUIS.  

I would say that the combination of end-users seemingly not being interested in using BUIS at all - even when given the option, and the fact that the MATECH seems to sufficiently meet the BIS II requirements, that the whole "BIS II" and BUIS in general seem to have been abandoned in favor of the use of the MATECH.  I would point out that for the SOPMOD Block 2, SOCOM did see the need to solicit special FDE coated KAC M4 front flips, but not bothered with anything in the rear BUIS department.  Thus, it would lead me to believe that the "official" SOPMOD BIS II set is the KAC Taupe front and MATECH rear.  The reason it's not really listed any longer in SOPMOD documentation is that when the original SOPMOD kit was issued, the basis of issue for the M4 and M4A1 Carbines was with dual heat shield handguards and a detachable carry handle and the KAC 300m rear was a "special" modification.  In the meantime, the M4A1 Carbine has, for all intents and purposes disappeared, and is instead issued as the M4A1 MWS, delivered with the KAC M4 RAS and MATECH BUIS as standard.  Therefore, any mention of the rear BUIS in the SOPMOD kit is irrelevant because changing the rear iron sight is no longer a "Special Operations Peculiar Modification," it's just standard equipment.  

Note too that insofar as SOCOM is concerned, many of the sights available - since the original 4x DOS (TA01NSN) have been issued with integral BUIS already - whether you feel they work very well (few really do) is irrelevant - the 4x DOS, SU-237/PVS, and SU-230/PVS-C all already have BIS included, negating any need to issue a separate BIS for the weapon system.  Though implementation may differ - it seems that the SU-230/PVS-C is intended by to replace not only the 4x DOS, but also the ECOS-N, the SU-231/PEQ is part of the phased replacement program, not the "full on" Block 2.  The SOPMOD program - quite unlike what we frequently recommend to users isn't about tailoring equipment to mission, but condensing existing solutions, take for example the AN/PEQ-15 ATPIAL which was intended as a combination of the AN/PEQ-2A and AN/PEQ-5.  Realize then that a fully configured Block 2 weapon includes three independent sighting systems already - 1) BIS, 2) Primary optic, 3) laser, with two "slaved" to other components (BIS on the primary optic, visible laser in the PEQ) for five different sighting solutions.  

So, I reckon and agree that the MATECH BUIS has everything to do with the fact that the Army already buys them by the truckload and gives them out even more freely has a great deal to do with their use, but I would maintain that if SOCOM had, needed, or wanted some other BIS II, they would have it.

~Augee

I concur.

Did I understand you properly here:



As meaning that the SU-231 is more of an interim optic, and that the SU-230 is intended as the ultimate optic platform for the block 2?

This chart shows the sight components of the Block 1 Phased Replacement and Block 2:

Under Block 1 Phased Replacement are:

SU-231/PEQ Reflex Sight (EOTech 553A.65TAN)
SU-237/PVS Sight Unit (Trijicon TA01ECOS)
Second Generation Rail Interface System (DD M4 RIS II FSP)
AN/PVS-17 Product Improvement Kit
SU-233/PVS Gun Light (Insight M3X-000-A23)
SU-238/PVS Integrated Gun Light (Insight M6X-000-??? not sure off the top of my head)

Block 2 consists of:

SU-230/PVS Articulated Telescope (ELCAN SpecterDR)
LA-5/PEQ ATPIAL (Insight PEQ-15????)
SU-232/PAS Thermal Sight
AN/PVS-24 Night Vision Device

At the same time, the same 2007 dated PowerPoint that that slide appears on also has the life-cycle of the SU-231/PEQ Reflex Sight lasting until the end of the M4A1 Carbine system life-cycle - furthermore, the newest SOPMOD optic is the SU-231A/PEQ.  Based on the SOPMOD slides, it appears that many of the Phased Replacement components were expected to remain in service until the phasing out of the M4A1 weapon system, however with the cancellation of the MK16, it seems that many components are in a holding pattern and continuing to be updated, but the general drift of SOPMOD seems to be reducing the number of components where possible by combining units and capabilities.  

~Augee

D'oh, I had looked at that powerpoint recently, just didn't notice the two distinctions. Interesting that the Block II doesn't have a weaponlight within its bounds. I suppose just the illuminator on the PEQ? In reality, I might be wrong, but it seems that the RAID is filling the illumination role.

Eeeehhhh the insight m3x is a weapon light...

So the Inight M3X 1913 light (civi designation) in tan is the issued weapons light.....what is the 2nd weapons light shown in the Block II pic. (and civilian designation) ?     For Block II, the M3X 1913 is the current issued rail light?

Yeah, but it's bracketed under the phased replacement. The block two section of that image only consists of the SU-230, PEQ, thermal, and NV sight.

That looks like the M6X, the one with the laser. However, I find it interesting that neither of those lights are in the Block II section; they are in the phased replacements section.

The phased replacements are components that replaced original block 1 components like the Surerire Millenium series light. The block 2 components are what is new as part of that kit.... At least that's my understanding.  So, what you're seeing is all block 2 with a section to show what was replaced in block 1 before becoming block 2.

From what I read recently, it looks like the Surefire m720v may be added later. But, there are Surefire scout lights in use now as well. Personally, I'd take a Surefire over the Insight given the option. The mini scout puts out the perfect amount of light for indoor use and is good enough outdoors for me. The KM2 head only puts out 30 more lumens than the mini scout for its white light, but the beam is more broad (though it obviously has the IR option as well, I was just using it to compare white light).

So someone wanting to build a current issue M4 (2010-2011) carbine (Block I or Block II), what rail lights are really being issued ?  Thank you.

Insight would be the current issue though you'll see Surefire lights in use as well. I'm no expert on clones and what is current military issue, this is all just my understanding. I'm sure things are popping up all the time we don't even know they're using. Look at NODs... The PVS-14 and PVS-7 are "issued", but the new 21's are getting a lot of use as well now with certain units. So, who knows, my guess (my understanding from reading here and other forums and from friends and guys I work/train with) is there's a wide mix of everything that works in use... Which is pretty obvious... and if I was issued this gear, of course there are certain things I'd rather have because they help me get the job done more efficiently.

I'm slightly confused on this one.  Based on the "Block 1 Phased Replacement" picture shown, the NSN # provided does not appear to match the Daniel Defense M4A1 FSP RIS II Rail which has a NSN # 1005-01-566-5280.

Can someone elaborate?

This is my understanding as well - the Block 1 components were continually being upgraded and evolving - but requirements are also morphing and combining producing items like the SU-230/PVS which superceded both the 4X DOS and SU-237/PVS Sight Unit.

Again, part of the issue is that that chart is from 2007 and to a certain extent was predicated on the M4A1 weapon system being replaced by 2015 or so (someone can look at the PowerPoint again and verify the exact timeline) probably in anticipation of the MK16 fully coming on line as an SOF replacement for the M4A1.  As we all know, the MK16 has come and gone, and I would say not even the most optimistic predictions would expect that the M4A1 Carbine's lifecycle will end by 2015 any longer.  

According to that PowerPoint, Block 3 was scheduled to be coming on line as well - which I haven't heard too much about.  

Backwards checking the NSN - though the pictured RIS II is the FSP, the NSN listed is for the non-FSP RIS II.

~Augee

Will the taupe KAC front site work with the KAC micro rear or would I have to get the standard KAC 200-600 rear?

You are GTG with the Micro rear sight and the Taupe front sight.

Thanks Augee.  I didn't think to look at that.  I would assume then that the FSP RIS II is being phased out for the non-FSP RIS II.

so whats the difference between the regular and micro? i thought the micros were shorter in height

Anyone in here happen to order a B5 SOPMOD stock from Rally Point Tactical?