Yep. ArmsUnlimited files a Form 3 (could be paper or e-file which will determine the time taken) then it transfers to your dealer. You go in, file a Form 4 and pay a tax stamp. Then miserable waiting and loathing over people who have the suppressor your waiting on. In a nutshell.

Pretty much. Once AU has your dealer's info, they will transfer the suppressor to them on a Form 3, which can take days or sometimes weeks. Lately they seem to be happening more or less within a day or so. Mine transferred from AU to my dealer within a day or two. Once your dealer has it, he'll supply the Form 4 and you'll need to supply 2 FD258 fingerprint cards, 2 passport photos and $200 payment. Then either you or your dealer mails to the ATF and your local CLEO.

ETA: Well, now you have two answers ;p. I didn't notice there was a new page with an answer before I posted.

That's so tempting!

Interesting problem with my AAC mini-4. Maybe not MK18 appropriate, but I know a lot of you guys use AAC suppressors.

When I screw my suppressor on, I get the normal ratcheting noise as it goes down over the teeth, when it stops turning, I can still rock the suppressor and get a faint clicking noise like it’s on top of a tooth. If I bear down , it will click but it is a real bitch to get it off. I have to press the latch and twist hard. It pops off as abruptly as you would expect something that was tightened a little to much.

Anyone experience this?  Should I shoot it without that last tooth?  It ratchets down several turns so I’m sure it’s on fully.

Common issue known as aac wobble. It's fine to shoot.

Hmmm.  I’ve had it on 3-4 different mounts on 3-4 different builds. Never had any idea. Interesting

Edit:  Wow. After a google search, I had no idea this was such a hotly debated issue.

~Augee

Dropping Augee bombs. Love it.

Lawd Hammercy

Yup, buy from arms, they form 3 it to your local FFL and they form 4 it to you. Right now form 3s are being approved in 24 hours, takes about a week or two form them to ship it. The shop I work at charges $100for nfa transfers. I prepare all the form 4s, customer comes in with 2 fingerprint cards and passport photos, signs the paperwork, and leaves with 2 envelopes ready to drop in the mail. Form 4s are running about 5 months for individuals.

Hopefully when (if) we ever get cans approved here, someone around here will offer the same service. NFA shit makes my head hurt.

Just got caught up on about a year's worth of this thread (apparently that's about as long as it's been since I popped in here, I think I had to start back somewhere at like page 855), but I wanted to briefly re-tread something:

LMT & DD uppers (not to mention DPMS Kitty Kats, etc.)--they've been used and issued by the military.

This thread has become the "catch all" for SOF-issued ~10" guns, obviously, to the point where even ^ HK416s are "allowed."

But really several different weapon "systems" are being discussed here, at least from a logistical point of view, even if they may look almost identical.

This has caused confusion in part because so many of these weapons are, ultimately, visually almost indistinguishable from photographs.

e.g., "EOD" (Navy) "CQBR/MK 18s":

Many of the EOD guns featuring Vltor CASV-ELs are in fact old R0727 carbines that rolled over to EOD after Nav Spec War adopted the M4A1 and modified based on operational needs. This is why when the CASV-ELs were procured, Vltor receiver extensions were also procured and/or MagPul M93b stocks--because the R0727s had only two position receiver extensions. Because these units are Navy, they were able to procure 10.3" upper receivers through NSWC-Crane.

The "bigger picture" being missed here is the various different relationships between units and their branches, USSOCOM, TACOM, NSWC-Crane, etc., as well as the different funding types/codes, and the different ways that units can and do procure weapons and equipment and how and why they make those decisions.

In the purest sense, the "CQBR" is the NSWC-Crane managed, USSOCOM sanctioned Close Quarters Battle Receiver, intended to be used with already-existing M4A1 lower receivers.

The MK 18 MOD 0 is a complete weapon system, managed by NSWC-Crane, and theoretically at least, available to any Department of the Navy proponent who sees fit to order them. The "Navy 18-1" appears to be what you get when you order a weapon in "M4A1 CQBR" configuration as a complete weapon from NSWC-Crane.

While a full description of the whole logistics system would be laborious, unnecessary, and inappropriate to discuss in exact detail here, what is relevant to this discussion is that units can get funding for equipment from a variety of different sources, and earmarked for various different purposes, including but not limited to:

SOCOM funding for SOCOM-specific items (e.g., NSWC-Crane for most small arms items)

Branch funding for items through their parent branch (e.g., TACOM)

Unit discretionary funds to purchase from outside vendors

Remember, purchases under any of these contexts (and more) would constitute a "military contract."

So--what is the point of all this?

Take, for example, an Army SF 10" M4A1:

The base weapon (lower) most likely came from the Army through TACOM, the M4A1 is part of their MTOE

The CQBR URG, SU-231A, and SOCOM-RC most likely came from NSWC-Crane through SOCOM funds

The AN/PEQ-15 may have come through the Army as well because it wasn't deemed worthwhile to spend SOCOM funds on an LA-5/PEQ when they could get the AN/PEQ-15 through the Army much more cheaply, and the particular user may not rate, may not need, or simply may have drawn the short straw because they needed a LAM, and got a PEQ-15, and all the LA-5s were issued/broken/otherwise unavailable

The FDE Gen. 1 LMT SOPMOD and Surefire Scout may have come from unit discretionary funds

The MagPul AFG was probably personally purchased--possibly even from our own EE

Several branches, vendors, units, and organizations are all involved in "making that weapon exist"

So... what's the point?

Re: DD and LMT uppers/barrels

The "CQBR" and MK 18 are official programs managed by NSWC-Crane, who is responsible for SOF-specific small arms.

"Officially," all CQBR and MK 18 URGs have one manufacturer--NSWC-Crane, whether they're assembled in Indiana, or assembled by Crane-certified armorers remotely (including in theater).

Components and sub-components for these parts are sourced from a wide range of contractors, including many that you may not be familiar with in the firearms industry, because vendors bid on "specs-provided" contracts, and not all of them choose to (or may be allowed to) turn around and enter the commercial firearms market with those parts. For example, the Crane specs for the low-profile gas block (Badger, DD, etc.) are easily available online--if you had the capability, you could easily manufacture a Crane-spec low profile gas block using readily available prints.

The whole reason behind Colt receiving the sole-source contract for the M4, effectively from 1994 to 2013 was a result of the pre-internet NSWC-Crane accidentally releasing the entire M4 TDP to interested vendors, instead of just the specific parts that would be needed to fill SOPMOD contracts.

To date, there has been little to no evidence that either LMT or DD has provided barrels or URGs to NSWC-Crane for use on NSWC-Crane CQBR or MK 18s.

However, not only has NSWC-Crane definitely purchased LMT barrel assemblies that were used on weapons that... looked identical to CQBR/MK 18s, but in an "official" sense, were not, NSWC-Crane is not, as I have noted, the only way a unit might get parts for their weapons.

During the Global War on Terror, OPTEMPO was high, and so were discretionary budgets. Ultimately, a single organization is/was unlikely to be able to keep up with operational needs for small arms for the entirety of SOCOM, which was deploying, training, and being engaged in operations at a heretofore unprecedented rate. Especially when it comes to something that was being built "in-house," i.e., things like the CQBR.

A unit getting ready to deploy could order CQBRs from Crane, and simply receive the answer of "sorry, we can't fill that" or "we can only fill half of that" (I'm vastly simplifying things here). If the operational need is strong enough, they may then simply decide to use discretionary funds, and go direct to a manufacturer or through a third-party vendor to get short uppers for their M4A1s.

i.e., Military contracts.

Alternatively, NSWC-Crane could simply order COTS products that were deemed "similar enough" to fill urgent needs for units about to go into action, particularly if they're managing small arms procurement (even through branch/unit funds) for the particular organization.

Items falling into the above categories would, on the one hand, fit into the descriptions of:

Military issued

Military contract

But may not necessarily fall under the CQBR or MK 18 programs, making them "basically the same thing," but also "not CQBRs"

Moreover, USSOCOM units are not (as we saw with the "EOD CQBRs," or various "Special Operations Capable" or "SOF-ish" units like Force Recon, LRS/LRP, etc.) necessarily the only ones who might have an operational need for a short barreled carbine--these organizations might, through their own organizational funding models procure LMT, DD, DPMS, Colt, etc., etc., URGs that do not come through NSWC-Crane and/or are not "true" CQBRs, but are still "military contract" and "military issued," and may look and function identically to a USSOCOM (Crane) CQB URG, often because the unit may say "we want what those SOF guys have" but not be able to purchase them through USSOCOM for whatever reason, and therefore may turn to DD, and say "we want that."

::shrug::

Maybe it's age/rank kicking in, but as the saying goes...

"Amateurs study tactics, but professionals study logistics." (obviously not my quote)

~Augee

its a 10.3......thats all i know anymore lol. used to be a Mk18 mod 0 but who knows what it's called now LOL

If that's a KAC flash hider, then I would call it a Mk18 Mod 0 clone. Just missing the fancy anchor label. If its an A2 flash hider, who the fuck knows what it is anymore.....

ETA I just realized that's an A2 lower....quick throw your A1 lower on to save face!

Nice gun.

Long time lurker. Thanks for all the great info and inspiration for my CQBR Block II pistol build.

Picked up the Colt lower receiver deal from Brownells ($199+other coupons). Received the lower in a white box marked "Spares" but it looks *much* better than those others have received. Luck of the draw I guess? Well-defined roll marks. Marked as M4 CARBINE, LE serial. No visible marring. Magazines release cleanly. Don't have the extra flashing reported by someone else on here. Castle nut was staked. Grip was covered in dry-lube.

Here's the build sheet:

UPPER:
Colt M4 flattop upper receiver
Daniel Defense 10.3" barrel (and Mk12 lo-pro gas block, carbine-length Gas Tube, all from new DD MK18 complete upper )
Colt BCG
BCM Extractor Spring Upgrade Kit
SureFire SF3P-556-1/2-28 flash hider (until I can find the elusive 4-prong)
Daniel Defense MK18 RIS II (FDE) rail
KAC 300 Meter Flip-Up Rear Sight (97082)
CQD Forward Sling Mount
Magpul AFG2 (FDE)
KAC RAS Front Folding Sight (99051-TAUPE)
Radian Raptor charging handle (may switch to PRI M84 Gas Buster with Military Latch when i pick up a suppressor)

LOWER:
Colt M4 Carbine lower receiver
Geissele SSA trigger group
Magpul MOE-K2+ (FDE) grip
CQD Rear Sling Mount
Colt H buffer (may switch to H2 based on research)
Colt Carbine buffer spring
KAK Shockwave Tube
KAK Shockwave Blade (FDE) --- will SBR this once I've thoroughly tested the config

Questions:

1. I have fat fingers, and gloves obviously make it worse. Is there a "clone kosher" trigger guard? Like the "Knight's Armament AR-15 Trigger Guard Kit"?

2. Any downside to the new EOTech EXPS-3 and G33 magnifier?

I'd just say that if your Colt BCG is relatively new, you don't need the upgraded spring kit. Just use what it came with.

What's the mount behind the eotech some kind of flip to side mount?

Wilcox

Wilcox flip mount for the magnifier.

Amateurs talk hardware. Professionals talk software.

Lt. Col. Dave Grossman

Hope all is well up north my friend.

Take a FMJ cartridge either M193 or M855 or punch, apply tip to trigger guard pin and swing trigger guard down.  That's the Army answer.  A M16/M16A1 pistol grip or shaved down A2 (nub) will allow trigger guard to sit further flush.  That's the only SOCOM trigger guard unfortunately.



CD

20mk18
Happy New Year!

Attached File

So what is the consensuses on DD Mk18 uppers, are they clone correct and accurate?

I see Brownells has them on sale is why I'm asking.

Its the most correct out of the box setup, but the upper reciever has the daniel defense tramp stamp on the side, so change that for a colt one and you are pretty GTG.

So what's the difference between the Colt upper and the DD one? (besides the DD logo) Just curious if a little rattle can action can take care of the issue or if it's a design difference.

They are the same, just a square forge with dd logo

Don't the DD uppers also have a plastic ejection port door?

If I'm remembering right, they do as complete uppers but not as stripped uppers. (I think the stripped uppers come as stripped receiver, barrel, and RIS II, forget it gas block and gas tube are included or not)

Yes, mine did.  Swapped it out when I got it.

Yup, annoying plastic ejection port cover. Of course, if you go the Colt upper route, it's a non-issue. If not, Brownells has plenty of milspec port covers to choose from. I replaced mine, but eventually ended up going with a Colt upper anyway.

Welp, got my first AR part of 2018; went crazy and ordered a Raptor-SD in FDE :D.

$80 bucks shipped - probably could've done a little better, but I was feeling impatient. Kinda excited to give it a try, but I'll definitely still be hanging onto my GB for the foreseeable future.

Does colt make bolts without the white dot? I thought that was there other identifier. What about the cage code on the CH? I believe I remember seeing that not all colt CH will have a cage code.

I was literally just reading about this in another thread pretaining to those "Colt Bolts" that are $39 dollars...

https://www.ar15.com/forums/AR-15/What-do-you-think-about-these-Colt-bolts-/118-721790/?page=2

Which WMX200 is more desirable, the fixed mount or rotational mount?

What are the going prices for these?

I don't really know which is more desirable but let me help you out with a links that are relevant...

Ice Cube - No Vaseline, NWA Diss - Youtube

https://www.amazon.com/Vaseline-Petroleum-Jelly-Original-Protectant/

Side note, I hate holidays! My local USPS hub has had my new tan Surefire M300C Scout Mini weapons light since Saturday! Almost wanna stay home from work today so I can be here for the delivery! :D

Lets just say.....you'll either be able to pay your rent this month......or buy a WMX200. (seriously, it costs almost as much as a rent payment with either mount)

There are some fixed mount Bronze/TAN WMX200's on eBay now for $930.00 and $1200.00.. I just saw a rotational mount TAN kit sell for $1500 I think it was?

That is why I bought a Surefire M300C Mini in TAN when Surefire dropped those new 500 lumen ones a couple weeks ago. Can't wait til it shows up today! I actually have a M600 now but the M600 is too big for the Mk18 CQBR.

Prices...

...are astronomical.

Fixed mount versus rotational mount?

Just in general, rotational mount seems to be considered slightly more desirable, though often it's not a huge matter of choice for most people, but it allows the light to much more easily be mounted in an "offset" position as favored by many these days.

"Clone" answer?

Only one organization tends to use the fixed mount version almost exclusively, so if you're wanting an "exact clone" or a "representative clone" for that organization, you "need" a fixed mount. Everyone else tends to use the rotational mounts much more commonly, however, so if you want a "generally representative" replica of a SOF weapon, the rotational mount is probably the better choice.

Practical/personal answer?

Having used and owned both, while the versatility of the rotational mount is nice--my experience has been that it doesn't really hold tension that well during long-term use, you invariably need to re-tension it regularly unless you want your light to start "drooping" or worse yet, flopping around. For this reason, I have personally come to prefer the fixed mounts for being more solid and less complicated.

~Augee

Jesus they've gone up even more? Last I checked they were ~$700

Klamper, make that 2 rent payments.

Roadblock, I don't blame you 1 bit bro. When the options are a 5 lumen incandescent M3X, a WMX apparently forged from 24 karat gold, or a Surefire.......I'm going surefire every time.  In fact, that's what I've always done. (Minus 2 M3X's)

I blame Japanese Airsoft kids! Those kids with $2000 dollar Systema PTW's and custom WOC clones are too snobish to buy "Airsoft" WMX200's, they want real ones! :D

Thanks for the detailed answer, I’ve been acclimated to high prices by KAC for the last 12 years so the MK18 game isn’t too bad.

I dont want to drop 800-1000 on a light but here we go.

Damn MIL-SIM kids ruin everything.

Cough...

QUESTION:

What's a lightly used TNVC ATPIAL-C worth, it comes with all of the factory items.

Doesn't this suggest our bolts are not legit? I can't imagine it's been handled enough for the dot to come off yet.

Bold move. I never got past the realization, "I could buy another SOCOM RC for the cost of that fucking light." After that, it kinda lost its appeal.

I pulled apart the bolt from one of the Shark Arms Colt BCGs and the extractor spring is the proper Colt "copper" spring. So, I think they are genuine Colt, but probably 3rd party stocks that didn't receive individual testing.

Colts all messed up, I bought a new 6920 few months back and it had what I think was an expanse carrier in it, no C on carrier or white dot. Bolt was mpc marked and upper was a c square forge.

Lol, yeah... sometimes it seems like they operate on the "If I feel like doing it today" method. These BCGs are "C" marked on the carrier, MPC marked on the bolt, but no white dot and no evidence of testing on the bolt face. They have the Colt extractor spring, but I'd have to pull the bolt apart again to check if the extractor is "C" marked as well. I'd wager it probably is, but not certain.

My extractor was marked CE. Faintly, but still there.

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I'd say anywhere between $1000-$1100.