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Official Arizona Regulators triggers thread (Page 8 of 22)
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| Just ordered a 3 position AZR. If I want to be able to swap it between 2 lowers I would need an M16 selector, disconnector & hammer with the trip nub removed for the 2nd lower? I know I should just buy another one(and I may eventually) but it will live in 1 gun 99.9% of the time. |
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Originally Posted By HEATH223: Just ordered a 3 position AZR. If I want to be able to swap it between 2 lowers I would need an M16 selector, disconnector & hammer with the trip nub removed for the 2nd lower? I know I should just buy another one(and I may eventually) but it will live in 1 gun 99.9% of the time. Without doing the needed parts mods, you can't just drop in the forced reset unit and expect it to work. The idea of leaving your 2nd setup in a condition where flipping the selector to the third position that locks out the disco with no forced reset unit in place is not a good one. For as little time as it takes, swap the entire FCG into your other gun or buy another AZR 3P. |
My 3 position AZR worked great in this 20 inch PSA with rifle buffer.  I don't shoot this rifle that often and reading on the AZR 3 position page, he mentions this will work with a high shelf lower. So I swapped it to this 11.5 Bushmaster upper with an Armalite high shelf lower and a Sylvan Arms gen 5 pro folder.  I found this Oden Works Adjustable weighted buffer at a local gun shop. I set it up to have a total weight of 5.4oz. https://www.odinworks.com/Adjustable-Buffer-p/os-abs.htm I was able to fire more or less a 1/2 of a magazine.  Arizona Regulator 3 Position FRT Then the buffer and spring got compressed & locked in the bottom of the buffer tube. I was able to stick a small allen wrench into the hole on the end of the buffer and tap it with a mallet to free it up.  I think I have too many possible failure points in this system. So I pulled off the they Sylvan folder and went back to a standard carbine buffer tube. Question to you folks, what total buffer weight are you finding works an AZR 3 pos and a 10.5" to 16" carbine? |
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Originally Posted By HEATH223: Just ordered a 3 position AZR. If I want to be able to swap it between 2 lowers I would need an M16 selector, disconnector & hammer with the trip nub removed for the 2nd lower? I know I should just buy another one(and I may eventually) but it will live in 1 gun 99.9% of the time. It's not recommended to keep a lower with the fire control elements of a 3 position AZR without the actual regulator unit installed. |
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Originally Posted By heavyduty: I’m not seeing 3P AZR-15A1 specific installation instructions on the website - the three methods listed don’t look to be applicable to the 3P which comes with a FCG. Is the AZR-15A1 pretty much plug and play? Yes, the 3 position is plug and play. No trimming, as long as your parts are mil spec. |
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Originally Posted By superdrag67: Does anyone have a REDACTED AZR they can measure? I didn't realize there were multiple versions when I bought mine and I bought the milspec one (AZR-15MR). I'm curious what the differences between the AZR-15M2 and REDACTED are. Is it solely leg length or is there cam differences as well? On the M2 I'm definitely getting engagement on the disco (SSA trigger) but function check doesn't work. I can't feel the hammer catching at all. The trigger never gets that close to being "dead" so I'm guessing the M2 has a shorter leg length that a redacted one? My AZR-15MR is: 0.8270 with top flipper vertical 0.8920 with top flipper pushed back The M2 has worked fine in all of my rifles with mil-spec triggers and disconnect. It has not worked with any of my G SSA-E triggers. The M2-R did not work with any of my G SSA-E triggers but it did work with the one SSA-X trigger that I have and my brother also had success with the M2-R and the G SSA E-X. |
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Originally Posted By -Shaggs-: So are all of these modules the same and the difference is your trigger and the safety? Whether or not its a 3 position? |
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Originally Posted By shultz: Sort of...the basic module design is the same. The difference between models is in the lower leg length and in the case of the 3P, length and shape. If I already have a 3 position safety, can I drop in any module then for a 3 position setup? and then just mod the leg for different triggers? |
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Originally Posted By drobs: Question to you folks, what total buffer weight are you finding works an AZR 3 pos and a 10.5" to 16" carbine? I just put H3 buffers in all of mine that have AZ regulators, and they've worked well on any barrel length between 16" and 10.5" so far. That said, I've also had fine luck with regular carbine buffers too, so your mileage may vary. I like the lower ROF of the H3 buffers better, but did not have any hammer follow issues that I can recall. ETA- To answer your question, my H3 buffers (including one I pieced together) all weigh 5.3-5.4 oz on the kitchen scale. All three weights are tungsten, and must rattle according to the documentation, no powder or solid buffers. |
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Originally Posted By fulautotank: I don't have a way to measure these right now but I will share my experience and maybe it will help. The M2 has worked fine in all of my rifles with mil-spec triggers and disconnect. It has not worked with any of my G SSA-E triggers. The M2-R did not work with any of my G SSA-E triggers but it did work with the one SSA-X trigger that I have and my brother also had success with the M2-R and the G SSA E-X. Thanks. I don't feel like swapping out any triggers to make this work so I'll just dump the M2 i picked up. Based on other accounts I've read the M2-R doesn't actually seem to be working with most of the G triggers. Or at least it's very hit and miss. Would still be interested in what the actual differences are if anyone else can provide the info later on. |
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Originally Posted By Senoj: I just put H3 buffers in all of mine that have AZ regulators, and they've worked well on any barrel length between 16" and 10.5" so far. That said, I've also had fine luck with regular carbine buffers too, so your mileage may vary. I like the lower ROF of the H3 buffers better, but did not have any hammer follow issues that I can recall. ETA- To answer your question, my H3 buffers (including one I pieced together) all weigh 5.3-5.4 oz on the kitchen scale. All three weights are tungsten, and must rattle according to the documentation, no powder or solid buffers. Thank you! I'll try some lighter weight buffers. Appreciate it. |
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Originally Posted By drobs: My 3 position AZR worked great in this 20 inch PSA with rifle buffer. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/41568/Fix_Bayonets_JPG-3625604.jpg I don't shoot this rifle that often and reading on the AZR 3 position page, he mentions this will work with a high shelf lower. So I swapped it to this 11.5 Bushmaster upper with an Armalite high shelf lower and a Sylvan Arms gen 5 pro folder. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/41568/Armalite_Arizona_Bushy_Sylvan_Folded_2-3636791.jpg I found this Oden Works Adjustable weighted buffer at a local gun shop. I set it up to have a total weight of 5.4oz. https://www.odinworks.com/Adjustable-Buffer-p/os-abs.htm I was able to fire more or less a 1/2 of a magazine.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1iNiEGi0DNcThen the buffer and spring got compressed & locked in the bottom of the buffer tube. I was able to stick a small allen wrench into the hole on the end of the buffer and tap it with a mallet to free it up. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/41568/Sylvan_Arms_buffer-3636793.jpg I think I have too many possible failure points in this system. So I pulled off the they Sylvan folder and went back to a standard carbine buffer tube. Question to you folks, what total buffer weight are you finding works an AZR 3 pos and a 10.5" to 16" carbine? Darn! You got my hopes up it would work with the folding stock adaptor. |
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Originally Posted By Senoj: I just put H3 buffers in all of mine that have AZ regulators, and they've worked well on any barrel length between 16" and 10.5" so far. That said, I've also had fine luck with regular carbine buffers too, so your mileage may vary. I like the lower ROF of the H3 buffers better, but did not have any hammer follow issues that I can recall. ETA- To answer your question, my H3 buffers (including one I pieced together) all weigh 5.3-5.4 oz on the kitchen scale. All three weights are tungsten, and must rattle according to the documentation, no powder or solid buffers. Originally Posted By Malum-Prohibitum: Darn! You got my hopes up it would work with the folding stock adaptor. An H1 buffer with standard buffer tube did the trick. I also did some swapping of uppers and lowers and found that 11.5 Bushmaster upper seems to be a problem upper. I bought it at the Tulsa Wannamaker Gun Show a few years ago from Remington / Bushmaster when they were going out of business. I'll fiddle around with the Sylvan Folder with a different receiver. 
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Got my 3 Position AZR today and am pretty sure I got a bad one Can anyone else that has a regular AZR and 3 POS check something for me before I contact JD. The upper BCG trip leg on my 3 POS AZR does not rotate up all the way. Looking at it and my regular AZR the upper trip leg on the regular one fully forward is 90* to the AZR body. My 3 POS only goes to 80-85*. When I put the 3 POS in the upper's pocket it pushes the BCG back ~1/8" and the upper will not close. It also sticks when it's rotated to the forward position where my regular one moves freely. ETA... When I say regular AZR I have the MBT one. |
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| Has anyone seen good information on proper installation and function testing of the 3P? It seems right, but I’d prefer not flying blind. Mine came with no instructions and it’s not covered in the AZR tech notes on the website. The three methods of installation seem to not apply to the 3P. I did try a web search, but all the 3P videos I’m finding are shooting demos. |
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Originally Posted By HEATH223: Got my 3 Position AZR today and am pretty sure I got a bad one Can anyone else that has a regular AZR and 3 POS check something for me before I contact JD. The upper BCG trip leg on my 3 POS AZR does not rotate up all the way. Looking at it and my regular AZR the upper trip leg on the regular one fully forward is 90* to the AZR body. My 3 POS only goes to 80-85*. When I put the 3 POS in the upper's pocket it pushes the BCG back ~1/8" and the upper will not close. It also sticks when it's rotated to the forward position where my regular one moves freely. ETA... When I say regular AZR I have the MBT one.  UPDATE: @shultz's experience (below) trumps my conjecture. I'd start there. |
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Originally Posted By HEATH223: Got my 3 Position AZR today and am pretty sure I got a bad one Can anyone else that has a regular AZR and 3 POS check something for me before I contact JD. The upper BCG trip leg on my 3 POS AZR does not rotate up all the way. Looking at it and my regular AZR the upper trip leg on the regular one fully forward is 90* to the AZR body. My 3 POS only goes to 80-85*. When I put the 3 POS in the upper's pocket it pushes the BCG back ~1/8" and the upper will not close. It also sticks when it's rotated to the forward position where my regular one moves freely. ETA... When I say regular AZR I have the MBT one. If lube dosen't get the levers moving correctly to 90 call JD. |
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Originally Posted By heavyduty: Has anyone seen good information on proper installation and function testing of the 3P? It seems right, but I’d prefer not flying blind. Mine came with no instructions and it’s not covered in the AZR tech notes on the website. The three methods of installation seem to not apply to the 3P. I did try a web search, but all the 3P videos I’m finding are shooting demos. Does this post by @shultz (above) help? |
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Originally Posted By heavyduty: Has anyone seen good information on proper installation and function testing of the 3P? It seems right, but I'd prefer not flying blind. Mine came with no instructions and it's not covered in the AZR tech notes on the website. The three methods of installation seem to not apply to the 3P. I did try a web search, but all the 3P videos I'm finding are shooting demos. FCG installs like any mil spec FCG as does the selector. The AZR should sit flush in the upper pocket, both levers sitting at about 90 degrees. Close the upper and rack the bolt back slowly, you should not feel any binding. Function check the selector safe position as you normally would. Select semi,dry fire and hold the trigger to the rear and rack the bolt still holding rear trigger pressure. You should feel the trigger forced into reset as the bolt moves back, The AZR is an always forced trigger set up no matter mode. Once the bolt is closed, release the trigger. you should hear the hammer transfer from the disco to trigger sear and be able to fire again. Repeat a few times. Once safe and semi are verified, flip to the 3rd position. Again dry fire and hold the trigger to the rear, now rack the bolt back,you should feel the trigger force into reset. Continue holding the trigger and bolt to the rear. As you slowly let the bolt come forward, still holding the trigger to the rear, the AZR should unlock as the bolt fully closes and allow you to pull the trigger. You if you didn't hear the hammer release, verify it released by releasing the trigger, trigger should be dead... Repeat the steps a few times. If everything is working as expected, lube it up and let her rip! |
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Originally Posted By shultz: The AZR can be a little stiff out of the package. I hose them down with Mobil 1 syn(any oil will do) and work the levers until the oil flows thru and they smooth out. I lube mine with a mix of Mobil 1 syn grease and oil LIBERALLY applied there after. If lube dosen't get the levers moving correctly to 90 call JD. I had lubed it and worked it 20-30 times before posting this to no avail. I just worked the lever by hand a couple hundred times and it's still not at 90* maybe 85* but I was able to close the upper. Then I hand cycled the gun ~75 times. It's passing the function checks. I'm hoping to take it out this weekend and try it out. On a side note this is the first time in several years I've used a MilSpec trigger and man THEY SUCK compared to MBT's. |
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I had a demo/blem BCM upper receiver that was not compatible with the AZ-M2 version. I swapped every item from a working gun to function check and it was literally that specific upper receiver that would not work with the M2 unit. Swapped upper receivers and it works 100%, weird. Once I got some trigger time on the M2 unit, its easy to shoot singles, doubles, or full mag in FRT. |
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Data Point! The upper pocket in PSA's "Gen4 8" 9mm 1/10 Suppressor Ready 10" M-Lok Upper w/BCG & CH" is NOT a JD approved pocket. The AZ Reg does not fit. Side note: a smarter dummy would have verified this before fitting the rest of the kit  .
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@03RN posted this in the other AZR thread and I responded with some questions: Originally Posted By 03RN: Ive started getting my 3pos one to shoot in the forced reset mode while in the semi position. I haven't had the time to break it down but so far there's nothing glaringly out of place. Any ideas? Does it do it in every AR you have? If it's only doing it in one, it might be a tolerance issue now that it's broken in. How many rounds through yours? I have about 270 through mine with no issues going FRT in semi. The Regulator piece in the upper is basically stuck in the pocket and doesn't move (very tight fit). Can any of you weigh in? link to the other thread: I recently examined and tested an Arizona Regulator three position FRT |
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Originally Posted By 11boomboom: @03RN posted this in the other AZR thread and I responded with some questions: Does it do it in every AR you have? If it's only doing it in one, it might be a tolerance issue now that it's broken in. How many rounds through yours? I have about 270 through mine with no issues going FRT in semi. The Regulator piece in the upper is basically stuck in the pocket and doesn't move (very tight fit). Can any of you weigh in? link to the other thread: I recently examined and tested an Arizona Regulator three position FRT The AZR3P (and the RB) will indeed force the trigger forward in SEMI mode, and you will feel it during a dry function check. However, the disconnector should engage the hammer and prevent it from falling. In live fire this trigger movement is not really noticeable. If the firearm is actually firing multiple shots in the SEMI position, then there is a problem. |
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Originally Posted By StealthyBlagga: The AZR3P (and the RB) will indeed force the trigger forward in SEMI mode, and you will feel it during a dry function check. However, the disconnector should engage the hammer and prevent it from falling. In live fire this trigger movement is not really noticeable. If the firearm is actually firing multiple shots in the SEMI position, then there is a problem. Originally Posted By StealthyBlagga: Originally Posted By 11boomboom: @03RN posted this in the other AZR thread and I responded with some questions: Does it do it in every AR you have? If it's only doing it in one, it might be a tolerance issue now that it's broken in. How many rounds through yours? I have about 270 through mine with no issues going FRT in semi. The Regulator piece in the upper is basically stuck in the pocket and doesn't move (very tight fit). Can any of you weigh in? link to the other thread: I recently examined and tested an Arizona Regulator three position FRT The AZR3P (and the RB) will indeed force the trigger forward in SEMI mode, and you will feel it during a dry function check. However, the disconnector should engage the hammer and prevent it from falling. In live fire this trigger movement is not really noticeable. If the firearm is actually firing multiple shots in the SEMI position, then there is a problem. That's the problem. It's firing multiple shots in SEMI after having been functioning correctly previously. |
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Originally Posted By EagleArmsHBAR: Are yall seeing wear on the regulator piece that contacts the trigger or disconnector (I don't know which piece it contacts on the three position)? Or wear on the trigger/disconnector? This is weird. Yall confirmed it isn't the disco spring? No issue without the regulator. Everything functions as it should. Once the regulator is in there, I was getting random bursts. Not consistent. This is a 3-position setup. No aftermarket parts. Mil-spec lower that hasn't had any issues for over 270 rounds. |
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Originally Posted By EagleArmsHBAR: Are yall seeing wear on the regulator piece that contacts the trigger or disconnector (I don't know which piece it contacts on the three position)? Or wear on the trigger/disconnector? This is weird. Yall confirmed it isn't the disco spring? I'm experiencing this now with a SuperSafety. busting in Semi, binary fire at times, and wont engage in Safe mode at times. used to run great. GI trigger parts. if Disco spring were wrong (which I dont know how that's possible) why was it fine first 300 rounds? low shelf PSA lower with no obvious wear or impacts or problems. though I took off the edge of the shelf to be sure, not change. I think the trigger parts get beat up and deform. the tail of the trigger (their trigger) is now impi ged and flared a bit. so I carefully filed off the edge back to square, but that didnt help. looks like others are having similar problems. |
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Originally Posted By lazyengineer: I'm experiencing this now with a SuperSafety. busting in Semi, binary fire at times, and wont engage in Safe mode at times. used to run great. GI trigger parts. if Disco spring were wrong (which I dont know how that's possible) why was it fine first 300 rounds? low shelf PSA lower with no obvious wear or impacts or problems. though I took off the edge of the shelf to be sure, not change. I think the trigger parts get beat up and deform. the tail of the trigger (their trigger) is now impi ged and flared a bit. so I carefully filed off the edge back to square, but that didnt help. looks like others are having similar problems. Originally Posted By lazyengineer: Originally Posted By EagleArmsHBAR: Are yall seeing wear on the regulator piece that contacts the trigger or disconnector (I don't know which piece it contacts on the three position)? Or wear on the trigger/disconnector? This is weird. Yall confirmed it isn't the disco spring? I'm experiencing this now with a SuperSafety. busting in Semi, binary fire at times, and wont engage in Safe mode at times. used to run great. GI trigger parts. if Disco spring were wrong (which I dont know how that's possible) why was it fine first 300 rounds? low shelf PSA lower with no obvious wear or impacts or problems. though I took off the edge of the shelf to be sure, not change. I think the trigger parts get beat up and deform. the tail of the trigger (their trigger) is now impi ged and flared a bit. so I carefully filed off the edge back to square, but that didnt help. looks like others are having similar problems. Until I get it resolved, I'm putting this one in my M16A4 toy, but I may use it on my Gordy project, too. |
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Originally Posted By HKH: For the ones experiencing these failures (frt burst in semi or going binary)- Has anyone measured the height of the trigger bar at the rear? And compared it to a new one? Do you mean the cutout, the radius of the opposing side, or something else? |
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I don't have a dial caliper, so I'm not able to measure. |
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Interesting wear mark on my regulator. Attached File I filed it off. I'll see if that fixes it tomorrow at the range. |
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If the trigger bar/tail is getting hammered shorter then I would think thr FRT would stop or be intermittant at most. Not FRT brrrt. If the 3-pos, which does partially reset the trigger in semi, but not enough to fire, is now fully resetting the trigger in semi than it would seem that the tolerance has changed or foreign debris. Check the disco hook. |
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Originally Posted By 11boomboom: Interesting wear mark on my regulator. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/523928/1000005684_jpg-3639462.JPG I filed it off. I'll see if that fixes it tomorrow at the range. I have seen that ding before. I think the back of your hammer is hitting the FRT. May be a variation in upper spec. Is there a corresponding ding or mark on your hammer? |
Official Arizona Regulators triggers thread (Page 8 of 22)
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