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Posted: 11/30/2018 7:39:13 PM EST
[#1]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 871JZ: Performed like a clock, as expected. What spring and buffer was in the gun? Geissele and H3? |
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Posted: 11/30/2018 7:39:41 PM EST
[Last Edit: Vapor-Trail]
[#2]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By IceAuger:
Navy? Someone should check the "new" NSNs and see what it says. |
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Posted: 11/30/2018 7:40:54 PM EST
[#3]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By splbass17:
Sorry if my stupid questions got us off track. I appreciate your advice too, learning about all sorts of ways to skin the cat! P.S. what the heck is the thing about the URG-I being cancelled? This is my first clone attempt, was bummed to see that Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By splbass17:
Originally Posted By krdt:
You know, I keep trying to let this drop - several of my posts have left it open to just agree to disagree as it were and move on - but you keep upping the ante with more hostility and arrogance. I "challenged" you? Are you serious? I hate to break it to you, but you're not some infallible source of AR wisdom whose word is law. And repeatedly comparing yourself to Combat_Diver isn't going to change that. You gave your opinion, and I gave mine; moreover, neither is wrong. Both will get the job done and I never said otherwise. There is only one of us that seems to be implying their way is the only right way to do it. P.S. what the heck is the thing about the URG-I being cancelled? This is my first clone attempt, was bummed to see that Nothing stupid about it... it'd only be stupid to continue doing something the wrong way rather than asking. Pretty tough learning on a high dollar part like a 4 prong, but I'm betting you won't be trying the ol' vise grips method again, lol. |
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Posted: 11/30/2018 7:41:17 PM EST
[#4]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Vapor-Trail: APS pointed out that the complete upgrade kits which is a daniel defense cage code says discontinued in haystack which is the navy's parts lookup system. But then it appears that the charging handle and rail now have individual NSNs, ie not a kit (not a single NSN for the whole upgrade kit as a sub assembly). And also some were saying complete upper has issues holding zero. But my question is: holding zero for what? The laser or the optic? No one who knows which has specified. Frankly id have a hard time beliving it was the laser. If something other than a complete monolithic rail can do better with a laser than a Geissele does, id like to know what it is. Stupid Army powerpoint doesnt say either. Powerpoints in general are totally worthless in my experience BTW, as far as something that's as good as, or better than the MK16's, check out the URX4's. Mine are solid as a rock and I seem to recall reading a couple reports that they offer nearly zero movement with lasers, etc. I only bring it up because you mentioned it. |
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Posted: 11/30/2018 7:41:49 PM EST
[#5]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Vapor-Trail:
Navy uses haystack. Army uses fedlog. Navy used to use fedlog too. Anything with an NSN should show up in either. Someone should check the "new" NSNs and see what it says. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Vapor-Trail:
Originally Posted By IceAuger:
Navy? Someone should check the "new" NSNs and see what it says. |
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Posted: 11/30/2018 7:43:19 PM EST
[#6]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By IceAuger:
Yes and Yes. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By IceAuger:
Originally Posted By 871JZ: Performed like a clock, as expected. What spring and buffer was in the gun? Geissele and H3? |
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Posted: 11/30/2018 7:57:57 PM EST
[#7]
I'm wondering if USASOC isn't just looking at a different rail since it seems drop testing was part of this supply system cancellation. Maybe a modified Mk16? Maybe someone else's? Would be a shame to see it get shit canned entirely. And I doubt GS5414 can talk about much of it at this current time
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Posted: 11/30/2018 7:58:14 PM EST
[Last Edit: Vapor-Trail]
[#8]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 871JZ: This is something that seriously interests me, as well. I've been keeping an eye out for any new details. BTW, as far as something that's as good as, or better than the MK16's, check out the URX4's. Mine are solid as a rock and I seem to recall reading a couple reports that they offer nearly zero movement with lasers, etc. I only bring it up because you mentioned it. |
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Posted: 11/30/2018 8:27:48 PM EST
[Last Edit: krdt]
[#9]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MILSPEC556:
I'm wondering if USASOC isn't just looking at a different rail since it seems drop testing was part of this supply system cancellation. Maybe a modified Mk16? Maybe someone else's? Would be a shame to see it get shit canned entirely. And I doubt GS5414 can talk about much of it at this current time I can't really see how the rail has much impact on whether the optic shifts, so I can't see that as being a reason to hold up the contract - unless there is some sort of issue with the barrel nut that is allowing the barrel itself to shift. Doesn't seem too likely, but I guess anything is possible. Outside of that, all I can figure is that the shift occurred either with iron sights or a laser. If the rail is shifting enough to cause the front sight or laser to be off 10 moa , that'd be a pretty big deal. Guess it's all speculation until someone confirms the details of that test. The radio silence from Camp G on this issue isn't exactly giving me a ton of confidence that everything is a-ok, lol. |
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Posted: 11/30/2018 8:30:31 PM EST
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MILSPEC556:
I'm wondering if USASOC isn't just looking at a different rail since it seems drop testing was part of this supply system cancellation. Maybe a modified Mk16? Maybe someone else's? Would be a shame to see it get shit canned entirely. And I doubt GS5414 can talk about much of it at this current time What we know/are pretty sure of: 14.5" URG-I is supposed to be fielded but probably hasn't been yet. 13.5" Mk16 has an NSN. ACH has an NSN. 10.3" URG-I may or may not be a thing. There was a drop test comparing an "M4A1" to an M4A1 with a Geissele rail (don't know which one). The Geissele rail showed more zero shift (what zero and how it is measured is unknown). Rockset is supposed to work up to 2,015° F and is supposedly water soluble. |
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Posted: 11/30/2018 8:31:17 PM EST
[Last Edit: 871JZ]
[#11]
Originally Posted By MILSPEC556:
I'm wondering if USASOC isn't just looking at a different rail since it seems drop testing was part of this supply system cancellation. Maybe a modified Mk16? Maybe someone else's? Would be a shame to see it get shit canned entirely. And I doubt GS5414 can talk about much of it at this current time Originally Posted By Vapor-Trail: Yes. something by Knights or Hodge would. They also seem pay close attention to that issue, and then design their rails to it. |
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Posted: 11/30/2018 8:33:35 PM EST
[#12]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By pezboytate: I've been hearing a lot of misinformation lately. Let's try to stick with facts and put disclaimers next to any statements. I know you are speculating in this post but there have been some incorrect things said in the past few pages. What we know/are pretty sure of: 14.5" URG-I is supposed to be fielded but probably hasn't been yet. 13.5" Mk16 has an NSN. ACH has an NSN. 10.3" URG-I may or may not be a thing. There was a drop test comparing an "M4A1" to an M4A1 with a Geissele rail (don't know which one). The Geissele rail showed more zero shift (what zero and how it is measured is unknown). Rockset is supposed to work up to 2,015° F and is supposedly water soluble. 
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Posted: 11/30/2018 8:36:30 PM EST
[#13]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 871JZ:
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 871JZ:
Originally Posted By pezboytate: I've been hearing a lot of misinformation lately. Let's try to stick with facts and put disclaimers next to any statements. I know you are speculating in this post but there have been some incorrect things said in the past few pages. What we know/are pretty sure of: 14.5" URG-I is supposed to be fielded but probably hasn't been yet. 13.5" Mk16 has an NSN. ACH has an NSN. 10.3" URG-I may or may not be a thing. There was a drop test comparing an "M4A1" to an M4A1 with a Geissele rail (don't know which one). The Geissele rail showed more zero shift (what zero and how it is measured is unknown). Rockset is supposed to work up to 2,015° F and is supposedly water soluble. |
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Posted: 11/30/2018 8:36:59 PM EST
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By pezboytate:
Hey! I didn't say heat wouldn't make it easier to remove! Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By pezboytate:
Originally Posted By 871JZ:
Originally Posted By pezboytate: I've been hearing a lot of misinformation lately. Let's try to stick with facts and put disclaimers next to any statements. I know you are speculating in this post but there have been some incorrect things said in the past few pages. What we know/are pretty sure of: 14.5" URG-I is supposed to be fielded but probably hasn't been yet. 13.5" Mk16 has an NSN. ACH has an NSN. 10.3" URG-I may or may not be a thing. There was a drop test comparing an "M4A1" to an M4A1 with a Geissele rail (don't know which one). The Geissele rail showed more zero shift (what zero and how it is measured is unknown). Rockset is supposed to work up to 2,015° F and is supposedly water soluble. 
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Posted: 11/30/2018 8:40:41 PM EST
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By pezboytate:
I've been hearing a lot of misinformation lately. Let's try to stick with facts and put disclaimers next to any statements. I know you are speculating in this post but there have been some incorrect things said in the past few pages. What we know/are pretty sure of: 14.5" URG-I is supposed to be fielded but probably hasn't been yet. 13.5" Mk16 has an NSN. ACH has an NSN. 10.3" URG-I may or may not be a thing. There was a drop test comparing an "M4A1" to an M4A1 with a Geissele rail (don't know which one). The Geissele rail showed more zero shift (what zero and how it is measured is unknown). Rockset is supposed to work up to 2,015° F and is supposedly water soluble. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By pezboytate:
Originally Posted By MILSPEC556:
I'm wondering if USASOC isn't just looking at a different rail since it seems drop testing was part of this supply system cancellation. Maybe a modified Mk16? Maybe someone else's? Would be a shame to see it get shit canned entirely. And I doubt GS5414 can talk about much of it at this current time What we know/are pretty sure of: 14.5" URG-I is supposed to be fielded but probably hasn't been yet. 13.5" Mk16 has an NSN. ACH has an NSN. 10.3" URG-I may or may not be a thing. There was a drop test comparing an "M4A1" to an M4A1 with a Geissele rail (don't know which one). The Geissele rail showed more zero shift (what zero and how it is measured is unknown). Rockset is supposed to work up to 2,015° F and is supposedly water soluble. |
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Posted: 11/30/2018 8:50:12 PM EST
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By krdt:
Lol. I would just further that by saying that the addition of a used 4 prong into your pasta water or crawfish boil adds a delightfully smoky flavor. I would hope that's a fact we can all agree on. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By krdt:
Originally Posted By pezboytate:
Originally Posted By MILSPEC556:
I'm wondering if USASOC isn't just looking at a different rail since it seems drop testing was part of this supply system cancellation. Maybe a modified Mk16? Maybe someone else's? Would be a shame to see it get shit canned entirely. And I doubt GS5414 can talk about much of it at this current time What we know/are pretty sure of: 14.5" URG-I is supposed to be fielded but probably hasn't been yet. 13.5" Mk16 has an NSN. ACH has an NSN. 10.3" URG-I may or may not be a thing. There was a drop test comparing an "M4A1" to an M4A1 with a Geissele rail (don't know which one). The Geissele rail showed more zero shift (what zero and how it is measured is unknown). Rockset is supposed to work up to 2,015° F and is supposedly water soluble. 
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Posted: 11/30/2018 9:09:17 PM EST
[Last Edit: MILSPEC556]
[#17]
Originally Posted By pezboytate: I've been hearing a lot of misinformation lately. Let's try to stick with facts and put disclaimers next to any statements. I know you are speculating in this post but there have been some incorrect things said in the past few pages. What we know/are pretty sure of: 14.5" URG-I is supposed to be fielded but probably hasn't been yet. 13.5" Mk16 has an NSN. ACH has an NSN. 10.3" URG-I may or may not be a thing. There was a drop test comparing an "M4A1" to an M4A1 with a Geissele rail (don't know which one). The Geissele rail showed more zero shift (what zero and how it is measured is unknown). Rockset is supposed to work up to 2,015° F and is supposedly water soluble. (He said APS above is correct, as to why- my post a couple pages back is part of your answer) which led to drop test. To the drop test convo, guys they have to be talking about the laser. A LAM is generally mounted close to the muzzle which is where the rail would see most shift. I can't imagine an optic getting 10MOA shift from a G rail. Originally Posted By 871JZ: Has anyone 100% confirmed that it's been canceled? Geissele still advertises these as USASOC.
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Posted: 11/30/2018 9:11:33 PM EST
[#18]
Was that good Pez?
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Posted: 11/30/2018 9:12:39 PM EST
[#19]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MILSPEC556:
For the gas block thing not that we know of. So far as far as we can tell the USASOC URG-I program is cancelled as it was. Its looking like some kits will make it down range but no more can be ordered through the supply system as of right now. Nah CD hasn't received anything URG-I yet. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MILSPEC556:
Originally Posted By stoner63a:
Re: Mfg, Part and NSN marking variations, probably no rhyme or system to it, just each size mfg in lots,Type 3 hard coat anodized, then W quantity are soaked in the green dye tank, Y in the DDC, Z in the grey, Z in black, then all are dipped in the Nickel or Magnesium Acetate sealant tank. Has the gas block issue been figured out yet, is it only the Badger, DD, etc Mk12 style gas blocks that were having issues or the Geisele gas blocks? Did @Combat_Diver state earlier he received some 14.5" Mid-length FN barrels in the upgrade kits he was installing? I like the 4150 CHF and uber-thick chrome-lining Nah CD hasn't received anything URG-I yet.  Attached File |
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Posted: 11/30/2018 9:13:44 PM EST
[#20]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By jeep450:
G saying it isn’t canceled on Instagram https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/99144/6BEBF025-AFDD-43B8-9133-70DD0D9CED03_png-756676.JPG Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By jeep450:
Originally Posted By MILSPEC556:
Originally Posted By stoner63a:
Re: Mfg, Part and NSN marking variations, probably no rhyme or system to it, just each size mfg in lots,Type 3 hard coat anodized, then W quantity are soaked in the green dye tank, Y in the DDC, Z in the grey, Z in black, then all are dipped in the Nickel or Magnesium Acetate sealant tank. Has the gas block issue been figured out yet, is it only the Badger, DD, etc Mk12 style gas blocks that were having issues or the Geisele gas blocks? Did @Combat_Diver state earlier he received some 14.5" Mid-length FN barrels in the upgrade kits he was installing? I like the 4150 CHF and uber-thick chrome-lining Nah CD hasn't received anything URG-I yet. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/99144/6BEBF025-AFDD-43B8-9133-70DD0D9CED03_png-756676.JPG |
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Posted: 11/30/2018 9:28:02 PM EST
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Vapor-Trail:
Navy uses haystack. Army uses fedlog. Navy used to use fedlog too. Anything with an NSN should show up in either. Someone should check the "new" NSNs and see what it says. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Vapor-Trail:
Originally Posted By IceAuger:
Navy? Someone should check the "new" NSNs and see what it says. |
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TN, USA
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Posted: 11/30/2018 9:36:08 PM EST
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 871JZ:
Thanks, man. If you need any help don't hesitate to ask. I'm an infallible source of AR wisdom, and my word is law.  Ill PM you guys when Im ready and if questions. |
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TN, USA
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Posted: 11/30/2018 9:37:51 PM EST
[#23]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Vapor-Trail: APS pointed out that the complete upgrade kits which is a daniel defense cage code says discontinued in haystack which is the navy's parts lookup system. But then it appears that the charging handle and rail now have individual NSNs, ie not a kit (not a single NSN for the whole upgrade kit as a sub assembly). And also some were saying complete upper has issues holding zero. But my question is: holding zero for what? The laser or the optic? No one who knows which has specified. Frankly id have a hard time beliving it was the laser. If something other than a complete monolithic rail can do better with a laser than a Geissele does, id like to know what it is. Stupid Army powerpoint doesnt say either. Powerpoints in general are totally worthless in my experience |
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TN, USA
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Posted: 11/30/2018 9:38:47 PM EST
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By loudxpack: Thanks man. Not sure as far as YouTube tutorial goes, but honestly I just throw all different shades of paint on them and use them. Laundry bag cloth for the pattern, and if you really want you can take a rag with some rubbing alcohol/nail polish remover/etc to mimic the “distressed” or worn look. Overtime it will wear down, though. Heat can also have some cool effects on paint. Note the m4-2000 turning reddish, just from the can getting hot. I have to have at least 30+ cans of paint in my garage, all different earthy tones. Just play around and have fun with it. It’s actually become kind of an art for me at this point and I love rattle canning everything now. |
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TN, USA
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Posted: 11/30/2018 9:40:06 PM EST
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By krdt: No worries, man. Shit sometimes gets heated, but we'll all live ;p. Nothing stupid about it... it'd only be stupid to continue doing something the wrong way rather than asking. Pretty tough learning on a high dollar part like a 4 prong, but I'm betting you won't be trying the ol' vise grips method again, lol. |
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Posted: 11/30/2018 9:46:28 PM EST
[Last Edit: 871JZ]
[#26]
Originally Posted By MILSPEC556: GS5414 essentially told me the drop test was part of why the kit is cancelled in the Navy's version of FEDLOG. So take that FWIW. (He said APS above is correct, as to why- my post a couple pages back is part of your answer) which led to drop test. To the drop test convo, guys they have to be talking about the laser. A LAM is generally mounted close to the muzzle which is where the rail would see most shift. I can't imagine an optic getting 10MOA shift from a G rail. Its cancelled in Haystack yes. And through GS' sort of cryptic (for good reason) answers- I feel like this specific issued combination of parts could be done for. [SPECULATION] Maybe USASOC wants a new rail. [/SPECULATION] I'd like to know the testing parameters, though. 10+ MOA seems excessive, but then again, the slightest shift of the rail on the nut is going to translate to a lot 13.5" down at the end of the rail, and even more so at distance, so I guess it's possible. I'm not sure how the rail could be moving that much if the anti-rotation screws are locked down and the pinch bolts are properly torqued. Of course, one would assume it's the MK16, but we aren't even sure what rail the testing was performed with. |
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Posted: 11/30/2018 9:48:21 PM EST
[#27]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MILSPEC556:
GS5414 essentially told me the drop test was part of why the kit is cancelled in the Navy's version of FEDLOG. So take that FWIW. (He said APS above is correct, as to why- my post a couple pages back is part of your answer) which led to drop test. To the drop test convo, guys they have to be talking about the laser. A LAM is generally mounted close to the muzzle which is where the rail would see most shift. I can't imagine an optic getting 10MOA shift from a G rail. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MILSPEC556:
Originally Posted By pezboytate: I've been hearing a lot of misinformation lately. Let's try to stick with facts and put disclaimers next to any statements. I know you are speculating in this post but there have been some incorrect things said in the past few pages. What we know/are pretty sure of: 14.5" URG-I is supposed to be fielded but probably hasn't been yet. 13.5" Mk16 has an NSN. ACH has an NSN. 10.3" URG-I may or may not be a thing. There was a drop test comparing an "M4A1" to an M4A1 with a Geissele rail (don't know which one). The Geissele rail showed more zero shift (what zero and how it is measured is unknown). Rockset is supposed to work up to 2,015° F and is supposedly water soluble. (He said APS above is correct, as to why- my post a couple pages back is part of your answer) which led to drop test. To the drop test convo, guys they have to be talking about the laser. A LAM is generally mounted close to the muzzle which is where the rail would see most shift. I can't imagine an optic getting 10MOA shift from a G rail. |
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Posted: 11/30/2018 9:48:54 PM EST
[#28]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 871JZ:
I'm 99.9% sure that it's the laser. It can't be the optic, and it's already been covered as to why not. I'd like to know the testing parameters, though. 10+ MOA seems excessive. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 871JZ:
Originally Posted By MILSPEC556: GS5414 essentially told me the drop test was part of why the kit is cancelled in the Navy's version of FEDLOG. So take that FWIW. (He said APS above is correct, as to why- my post a couple pages back is part of your answer) which led to drop test. To the drop test convo, guys they have to be talking about the laser. A LAM is generally mounted close to the muzzle which is where the rail would see most shift. I can't imagine an optic getting 10MOA shift from a G rail. Its cancelled in Haystack yes. And through GS' sort of cryptic (for good reason) answers- I feel like this specific issued combination of parts could be done for. [SPECULATION] Maybe USASOC wants a new rail. [/SPECULATION] |
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Posted: 11/30/2018 9:51:01 PM EST
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By krdt:
The only other thing I could think of would be BUIS, which would also be mounted at the extreme end of the rail. Otherwise, I'm failing to see how the shift would be directly related to the particular rail. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By krdt:
Originally Posted By MILSPEC556:
Originally Posted By pezboytate: I've been hearing a lot of misinformation lately. Let's try to stick with facts and put disclaimers next to any statements. I know you are speculating in this post but there have been some incorrect things said in the past few pages. What we know/are pretty sure of: 14.5" URG-I is supposed to be fielded but probably hasn't been yet. 13.5" Mk16 has an NSN. ACH has an NSN. 10.3" URG-I may or may not be a thing. There was a drop test comparing an "M4A1" to an M4A1 with a Geissele rail (don't know which one). The Geissele rail showed more zero shift (what zero and how it is measured is unknown). Rockset is supposed to work up to 2,015° F and is supposedly water soluble. (He said APS above is correct, as to why- my post a couple pages back is part of your answer) which led to drop test. To the drop test convo, guys they have to be talking about the laser. A LAM is generally mounted close to the muzzle which is where the rail would see most shift. I can't imagine an optic getting 10MOA shift from a G rail. |
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Posted: 11/30/2018 9:54:16 PM EST
[Last Edit: 871JZ]
[#30]
Originally Posted By MILSPEC556:
Yeah even GS said 10MOA was ridonculous. He also said other entries performed better in that aspect. (That right there is what makes me speculate if a diff rail may be being looked at) The back end of that thing is beastly where it attaches to the upper. IBN system is excellent, IMO.  Attached FileOriginally Posted By MILSPEC556:
Its a possibility but I can't see BUIS being a large priority. Optic and LAM are definitely the 2 most crucial of the three. |
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Posted: 11/30/2018 10:01:43 PM EST
[#31]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MILSPEC556:
Its a possibility but I can't see BUIS being a large priority. Optic and LAM are definitely the 2 most crucial of the three. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MILSPEC556:
Originally Posted By krdt:
Originally Posted By MILSPEC556:
Originally Posted By pezboytate: I've been hearing a lot of misinformation lately. Let's try to stick with facts and put disclaimers next to any statements. I know you are speculating in this post but there have been some incorrect things said in the past few pages. What we know/are pretty sure of: 14.5" URG-I is supposed to be fielded but probably hasn't been yet. 13.5" Mk16 has an NSN. ACH has an NSN. 10.3" URG-I may or may not be a thing. There was a drop test comparing an "M4A1" to an M4A1 with a Geissele rail (don't know which one). The Geissele rail showed more zero shift (what zero and how it is measured is unknown). Rockset is supposed to work up to 2,015° F and is supposedly water soluble. (He said APS above is correct, as to why- my post a couple pages back is part of your answer) which led to drop test. To the drop test convo, guys they have to be talking about the laser. A LAM is generally mounted close to the muzzle which is where the rail would see most shift. I can't imagine an optic getting 10MOA shift from a G rail. |
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USA
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Posted: 11/30/2018 10:55:05 PM EST
[#32]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 871JZ: This may be the URX4 he was referring to. I mentioned this earlier and I also mentioned that I'm pretty sure it was him discussing in a previous thread that the URX4 performed the best during drop tests because that really stood out in my mind since I'm very familiar with that rail. I remember paying particular attention to that and then continuing the conversation with other KAC guys. It just makes sense. URX4 has no way to shift since it isn't relying on any form of clamping force. It IS the barrel nut, so the rail would have to loosen or bend in order to show any appreciable amount of movement. The back end of that thing is beastly where it attaches to the upper. IBN system is excellent, IMO. Agreed. I wonder if applying more torque to the pinch bolts would have a positive effect in reducing the amount of shift? |
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Posted: 11/30/2018 11:10:54 PM EST
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By splbass17:
UPDATE: If anyone cares. the 10.3 IS pinned and welded. I put a vice-grip on, with a towel, to take it off for a trade. The grip slipped, and I scratched up the flats (left and right side), its shiny metal now (will it rust?) Called Geissele immedicatly after Emily answered, wasnt sure and transferred me to Roberto. Roberto confirmed, yes these are pinned and welded. I stated, are you sure its the 10.3 I'm referring to, NOT the 14.5. He said yes sir, we pin and weld the 10.3 near-clone. Stated, "we try out best to hide the mark". I sent an upclose video to a knowlwddge memerber here, he swears he can not see the pin job. I wonder if the guy was correct at Geissele, I dont want to keep cranking on it if its pinned. Sorry to keep obsessing over this, just cant seem to find a solution here. |
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Posted: 11/30/2018 11:13:36 PM EST
[#34]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By FREEFALLE7:
MSI? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By FREEFALLE7:
Originally Posted By Combat_Diver:
Originally Posted By 871JZ: Did you happen to take a pic if the MSI upper? https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/32677/IMG_5965_jpg-755906.JPG https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/32677/IMG_5967_jpg-755907.JPG https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/32677/IMG_5968_jpg-755909.JPG CD CD |
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WA, USA
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Posted: 11/30/2018 11:20:25 PM EST
[Last Edit: Recce_Gear]
[#35]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MILSPEC556: GS5414 essentially told me the drop test was part of why the kit is cancelled in the Navy's version of FEDLOG. So take that FWIW. (He said APS above is correct, as to why- my post a couple pages back is part of your answer) which led to drop test. To the drop test convo, guys they have to be talking about the laser. A LAM is generally mounted close to the muzzle which is where the rail would see most shift. I can't imagine an optic getting 10MOA shift from a G rail. Its cancelled in Haystack yes. And through GS' sort of cryptic (for good reason) answers- I feel like this specific issued combination of parts could be done for. [SPECULATION] Maybe USASOC wants a new rail. [/SPECULATION] USASOC is pressing forward, which is what CD has been updated with, and the first fielding with be to units at Fort Lewis/JBLM. Kits have been delivered to Crane, but have not been released yet. Keep in mind that the URG-I is a kit, not a complete upper, however Crane can and will deliver complete uppers upon request. There may also be some supplemental changes to the kit, as issued, but those have yet to be announced. AFSOC is still evaluating. Also, the MK18 URG-I uppers that have been delivered for evaluation all came with G gas blocks. |
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Posted: 11/30/2018 11:23:27 PM EST
[#36]
a couple of pictures from MSI showing production of those uppers C_D posted
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Posted: 11/30/2018 11:26:25 PM EST
[#37]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Recce_Gear: From my sources: WARCOM and MARSOC are moving forward with the SURG, which was recently awarded to SIG and is why you will see the Navy information listed as DISCONTINUED in Haystack. http://soldiersystems.net/2018/07/29/ussocom-awards-sig-sauer-48-mil-for-suppressed-upper-receiver-group/ USASOC is pressing forward, which is what CD has been updated with, and the first fielding with be to units at Fort Lewis/JBLM. Kits have been delivered to Crane, but have not been released yet. Crane completed their testing Keep in mind that the URG-I is a kit, not a complete upper, however Crane can and will deliver complete uppers upon request. There may also be some supplemental changes to the kit, as issued, but those have yet to be announced. AFSOC is still evaluating. Also, the MK18 URG-I uppers that have been delivered for evaluation all came with G gas blocks. I'm glad to hear the 10.3's came with G blocks. IMO if it has a Mk16 rail, it should have the G block for proper clearance. |
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Posted: 11/30/2018 11:28:20 PM EST
[#38]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By JLAudio:
a couple of pictures from MSI showing production of those uppers C_D posted https://mfg-support.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/IMG_5882.jpg http://mfg-support.com/wp-content/uploads/photo-gallery/products/IMG_5925.JPG http://mfg-support.com/wp-content/uploads/photo-gallery/products/IMG_5898.JPG
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Posted: 11/30/2018 11:29:33 PM EST
[#39]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MILSPEC556:
Supplemental changes is also what I'm expecting to be clear. Not the whole things tits up. I'm glad to hear the 10.3's came with G blocks. IMO if it has a Mk16 rail, it should have the G block for proper clearance. 
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Posted: 11/30/2018 11:30:45 PM EST
[#40]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By C6H12O6:
They probably came with nitrided G blocks not the stainless one that came with my 9.3 Mk16. Who wants a silver-colored gas block? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By C6H12O6:
Originally Posted By MILSPEC556:
Supplemental changes is also what I'm expecting to be clear. Not the whole things tits up. I'm glad to hear the 10.3's came with G blocks. IMO if it has a Mk16 rail, it should have the G block for proper clearance.
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WA, USA
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Posted: 11/30/2018 11:36:11 PM EST
[#41]
Also, although unclear, the most logical reason for the 10MOA shift would be the LA-5/PEQ-15. The bodies and mounting surfaces are polymer with a single recoil lug/rail grabber that has been to the polymer body with two screws, this is and always will be the biggest failure point and reason for zero shift after impact. The other possibility is the KAC 99051 folding front sight which is the issue front sight. It does not have a recoil lug to prevent it from shifting inside of the rail slot it is attached to. It also folds and can shift/bend/break under pressure/impact. It will take a lot to do it, but it is possible.
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Posted: 11/30/2018 11:38:22 PM EST
[#42]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Recce_Gear:
Also, although unclear, the most logical reason for the 10MOA shift would be the LA-5/PEQ-15. The bodies and mounting surfaces are polymer with a single recoil lug/rail grabber that has been to the polymer body with two screws, this is and always will be the biggest failure point and reason for zero shift after impact. The other possibility is the KAC 99051 folding front sight which is the issue front sight. It does not have a recoil lug to prevent it from shifting inside of the rail slot it is attached to. It also folds and can shift/bend/break under pressure/impact. It will take a lot to do it, but it is possible. 
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WA, USA
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Posted: 11/30/2018 11:39:09 PM EST
[Last Edit: Recce_Gear]
[#43]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By C6H12O6: They probably came with nitrided G blocks not the stainless one that came with my 9.3 Mk16. Who wants a silver-colored gas block? |
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Posted: 11/30/2018 11:42:40 PM EST
[#44]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Recce_Gear: Same G Block that is on the 14.5" Near Clone, so the lower profile one. The Stainless ones are not the same as the ones that come on the uppers, which is why I bought a stripped 10.3 upper and not the kit. |
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Posted: 11/30/2018 11:46:30 PM EST
[#45]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 871JZ: This may be the URX4 he was referring to. I mentioned this earlier and I also mentioned that I'm pretty sure it was him discussing in a previous thread that the URX4 performed the best during drop tests because that really stood out in my mind since I'm very familiar with that rail. I remember paying particular attention to that and then continuing the conversation with other KAC guys. It just makes sense. URX4 has no way to shift since it isn't relying on any form of clamping force. It IS the barrel nut, so the rail would have to loosen or bend in order to show any appreciable amount of movement. The back end of that thing is beastly where it attaches to the upper. IBN system is excellent, IMO. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/363550/20181130_220425_jpg-756730.JPG Agreed. I wonder if applying more torque to the pinch bolts would have a positive effect in reducing the amount of shift?
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SC, USA
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Posted: 11/30/2018 11:47:05 PM EST
[#46]
Is the MK16/URG-I barrel nut the same as the MK14 rail?
The aluminum MK14 nut is really lightweight. It’s a nice design and I’m sure it works really well as a heat sink for the barrel but curious if it could be a weak point in the system during drop testing. Perhaps steel or Ti might be a better material? |
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WA, USA
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Posted: 11/30/2018 11:50:48 PM EST
[#47]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By JLAudio: There are multiple versions of G gas blocks? |
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WA, USA
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Posted: 11/30/2018 11:52:06 PM EST
[#48]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MJ11B4P:
Is the MK16/URG-I barrel nut the same as the MK14 rail? The aluminum MK14 nut is really lightweight. It’s a nice design and I’m sure it works really well as a heat sink for the barrel but curious if it could be a weak point in the system during drop testing. Perhaps steel or Ti might be a better material? |
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USA
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Posted: 12/1/2018 12:02:34 AM EST
[#49]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Recce_Gear: Hodge and a few others' barrel nuts are titanium for this very reason. |
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WA, USA
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Posted: 12/1/2018 12:06:55 AM EST
[#50]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By methical20: Wedgelock has a titanium barrel nut while the Pinchlock’s is steel. |
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