Thanks! It is the Noveske marked rail that was made by SWS, think I picked this up from John sometime around 06-08. It has the KAC rail panel covers on too.

This is one of the best threads on ARFCOM; let's not let it die. IMO, the recce/recon style is one of the best all-around AR designs out there. Here's a conversation starter. Maybe some of you recce experts could chime in (Augee...you there?).

I'm working on acquiring the parts for a recon rifle over the next year or so and this is the current vision for the end product. Some folks build their recces as portable precision rigs, others stick more to the "spec" and go for an accurized M4-type rifle. That's what this is. It's also a hybrid between the two pictures below of real recces in the wild. I'm looking for something that can be used for CQB-type carbine class work and also reach out to 300-400 yards.

Upper is a 16" SS416 BCM upper
BE Meyers 249F flash hider (why not go with the best)
11" LaRue rail - I know most like a 12", but 11" is more balanced IMO and looks closer to the first pic below
SOPMOD stock
Harris BRM-S bipod
Larue LT014 mount
Probably a Vortex Strike Eagle 1-6x unless the reviews stink in a couple months
The rest are your normal AR parts...nothing fancy.






Gunstruction doesn't include the exact parts but this gives a general idea of what I'm looking for.

It's my opinion that the true SEAL recon rifles were used for more of a precision role while possessing the capability to be used in CQB if needed. I believe that these rifles may be used for over watch by SEAL snipers as well as the name implies, for recce's.

I've normally accepted that the recon rifle was used soley by the SEAL snipers within the unit. However there was information that did not mesh well so I've thought about this for a while. This is just my analysis and the only way to be sure is to get the info first hand but this is my take. I've read Mark Owen (an assaulter) mention that he had a 14.5" HK416 upper with a NF scope for longer engagements if needed. As many of you know we've been told that the HK416 with a 14.5" barrel and NF 2.5-10 is now the new recce rifle so that brings up a lot of questions as to who has a recce rifle or even if the HK416 with a 14.5" barrel is considered a the true successor to the recce rifle.

So this info I've formed that the following two things are going on here:
1) SEAL snipers within DEVGRU are utilizing 14.5" HK416 uppers which are readily available to all of its members, not just snipers, and using it in the same role as the recon rifle.
2) Recon rifles in the "original" configuration are still in use. These sets of photos are actually pretty recent dating around 2011 or 2012. Using some logic I've narrowed down the time frame to between the Bin Laden raid and October 2012.

In conclusion I think that the original recce rifle is still in use but may be  only used by SEAL snipers while the 14.5" HK416 uppers are readily accessible to everyone including assaulters but are also used by a number of SEAL snipers as their choice to fill the same role as the recon rifle.

As for CQB use. If any of you guys watch this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fPFUWOYkrDE you see that Dom Raso uses the red dot to line up his sight picture with the target and then drops his head to use the scope. Using my clone for a while I found that I was using the red dot in a similar way. I believe this is why we see so many red dots in 12 o clock mounts instead of the usual 45 degrees we see with "gamer guns". While it indeed does provide a red dot for back up use and CQB one of it's other main purpose is to be used as a target acquisition aid i.e. a more precision rifle orientated use. If they were trying to find a gun that would be a well rounded performer they would have most likely gone with an offset red dot or a lower power variable scope.

Secondly I have not seen a single white light on a recon rifle. If you guys have seen photos of assaulter's short HK416 rifles in the same unit you notice that all of them have a SF scout in a S&S precision mount. I think the lack of white light also points to a precision based rig.

Third, once again connecting back to Dom Raso. He has a clone of a recon rifle and he has mentioned to me that it is a clone of his rifle he had in the service. I think a lot of signs point to him as being in some sort of designated marksman or potentially a sniper but I can not confirm. His photos in the service always shows him with a magnified optic on his rifle and is something that stands out to me, especially when all the photos of his unit have Eotech sights on their rifles.

 

Great info. I've always enjoyed the setup in the pictures you've shared there. Thinking about the RDS at 12 for rapid target acquisition and then transitioning to the scope makes sense. Even at lower magnification speed can be lost due to "hunting" for the target.

I don't know if you guys say Leupold at SHOT but they have a new optic out that follows this concept, the DEVO. It allows you to keep the RDS at a normal height and then the 6x scope "bends" around the RDS. You can transition easily from 1 to 6 based on cheekweld. It ain't pretty but interesting concept that fits the recce role.

From SoldierSystems

While it is cool and really innovative, for $1800 I could get a NF and T1 in the EE and still probably spend less. That being said I would like to use a DEVO and see just how well it works.

Agreed on that notion. It is however always exciting to see optics be pushed in new directions.

I wrapped up my latest recce configuration the other day so I'll try to get some decent iPotato pics up today.

I missed having a recce so I put this together last week. I suck at photography.

Changed out my quad rail for a ALG EMR.

I'm all of a sudden craving a second NF 2.5-10x32. I love the one on my LMT 308, but now think I need one on a 5.56 as well.

I'm a big fan and know you are too.

Very informative post, Patriot. Thanks a lot. Where did those pics come from? They look like screen grabs and I feel like I've seen them before.

I like the concept of Raso's rifle with the 2.5x10 under the micro red dot. Just not sure how well that would work for someone like me without his training. Do you have any specs on the rifle he's using in that video?

It's from a MoH WF promo video I believe.

Ding! That's where I saw it, now that you mention it.

Yup Russell is correct and thanks Ruseell. I think the SEAL recon rifle is definitely one of the most interesting things I've researched that is gun related, probably due to the rarity or little known info about it.

It came from the promo for a video game called Medal of Honor Warfighter. They actually used members of DEVGRU for the promo along with their equipment and this was confirmed when those involved were punished. If I recall all of them were sent back to normal SEAL teams with pay cuts or no pay  for a number of months.

The rifle that Dom is using is actually a Daniel Defense MK12 and not his recce clone but all the stuff he has on it, optics and grip pod are from either his recce clone or the HK416 he used while in service. Note the grip pod is the same one on this rifle here



His clone build

Wow...love that recce! There are so many questions I'd ask him if I could, but do you know how long that barrel and rail is? The rail looks shorter than 12" to me.

I'm starting to wonder what the difference is between a DMR rifle and a recce. Is the DMR just the official Army manifestation of the recce concept?

I would think a DMR in the AR category would be based off the M16 with a 20" rifle length gas system. DMR have also been .30 cal battle rifles. The recce to me would be more of an accurized M4 with a 16" carbine length gas system. Lighter, handier, but with precision still in mind. I also believe the the recce concept predates the Mk12 program which fits in between the the recce and DMR categories per se. The Mod H MK12 is a fine recce type of rifle. I'm sure Augee will be along shortly to slap my wrists and clarify everything.

I've always enjoyed this picture. MARSOC I believe and a Block II M4 but certainly recce-ish.

I'm seeing a lot of SFP scopes on these rifles.  Can anyone explain to my why SFP seems to be the norm for Recee style rifles or mid range engagement rifles?

Are turrets not normally being touched at all during 0-500 engagement?  Working at 2.5 power and then up at 10 has to produce some different effects on POI at the same range on a SFP scope.  How big of a shift in POI is there between the two?  Is it so minimal that a mid-range precision shot shouldn't be effected?

The top one is a 14.5" HK416 and the bottom recce he has should be a 16" Lilja barrel and the rail is the KAC free float RAS which is the same length as the one used on the Mk12 which is 12 inches overall but with 11 inches of rail space. You can tell from the 7 holes in the rail.

I'm not too sure about what the differences are between the two but I would say the the DMR in an infantry squad is to directly support the squad with well-aimed shots at ranges that are beyond the range of a rifleman while the recce is used for recon and as an overwatch for the assaulters hitting the target.

 

Thanks for the rail ID.

I need to get a book or something on the roles of "designated marksmen" and snipers. When I think of snipers I think of bolt guns and 1000yd+ shots in a Ghillie suit from a 2-day stakeout. I take it that's not what the DMR, recce or even Mk12 is for.

Are there any good videos showing the roles of assaulters vs marksmen etc in an operation? Just curious...doesn't even have to be SOF.

youtube search USMC Combat footage. One of the first things popping up should be Scout snipers supporting operations in Helmand. Netflix has a few documentaries involving US Marines, if I can find it on Netflix I'll let you know the title, it shows the DM in a few scenes...not switching to Nexflix though while the Super Bowl is on

 
 

Although everything about this rifle was my take on a blend of mk12 variant parts, it's been brought to my attention it belongs in here.She's getting makeup as soon as the weather allows.

Clone threads can be brutal but I understand their agenda. I'm like you where I opt for the "inspired" builds too. I must say that is one slick rig and some paint will set it off.

A good SFP scope has minimal POI shift but you can't range with the reticle anymore.

Awesome rilfe, my current build is a Mk12 inspired that will also end up here. Looks great!

Thanks fellas, I've got 2 that can play in there, but this one's an outcast.

Wooooow.

Now you need an early Mod 0.

Your Mod H URX is sick. It's all spec parts just not in a configuration they approve of.

 

I think he was referring to the 16" w/ KAC FF RAS not belonging in the Mk 12 thread.

That is an awesome setup. Paint that sexy beast NOW!!!

Great minds think alike (I just used a URX). I'm digging that Sopmod. May have to change mine up. Please excuse the Aimpoint until I get a Hi-Lux (hat tip, RTUtah )

 

^ this, on was on the fence to build a mod 0. But after feeling how nice the mod h felt, I wanted another with the ff ras on it.

I parted mine out to go back to a Mk12 Mod 1, kind of regret it but I'll build another once the next batch of FF RAS's show up.

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Looks best with a sopmod but it felt right with an A1



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Meh...the MK12 is over rated The 16" barreled SPR's like the MOD H that the MK12 have progressed into are superior- especially with lighter weight barrel profiles such as the BA 16" tactical gov.

You shut that whorish mouth Matty!

Just gonna leave this here. Eventually we'll take over every thread


Ignore the little one on the right.

Pure sex.

My reece build, still debating on what bipod to get.  (New guy so pic probably won't show up)

I totally agree with you and thanks for the kind words.

You pushed me over the edge to finally paint, and now the wife and dog run when they see me break out the rattle can.

I wonder how many on this forum you've gotten to paint stuff!?

 

Haha send me a PM if you do.

 

Just finished it a while back, only just got a picture of it.

Untitled by Crazy people Concepts, on Flickr

Rainier Arms Match .223 Wylde Barrel in 16", off the EE
Rainier Arms Low Profile Match Grade Gas Block - Nitride
Gas Tube- Midlength
Rainer arms BCG - Phosphate
Aero precision upper
Alg m-lok 15"
A2 flash hider
Primary Arms 1-6 gen2, Primary Arms mount and cat tail.
Harris 6-9 bipod, attached via magpul m-lok adapter.

San Tan Tatical ambi lower
Geissele SSA-E
Spikes Tatical T2 buffer
Magpul stuff

Had a few double feeds and FTE's, mostly with Freedom munitions 55gr psp and 20round curved pmags. But they happen less as they "break in"
Kinda want to paint it

oh that one on the left!!!

My humble budget-friendly addition to the thread
Sorry for the crappy iPhone pics





Mas Defense 16" Fluted HBAR SS 1/8 .223 Wylde
BCM Lo-pro gas block
YHM 5C2
ALG Defense EMR M-LOK 13"
Aero Precision blem upper receiver
Rainier Arms Raptor
Toolcraft BCG
S&W M&P15 Lower
Geiselle SSA
Burris M-TAC 1-4x
Burris PEPR QD
a few magpul goodies

ETA: Waiting on Harris 6-9 and KMW pod-loc

The ALG EMR is becoming THE recce rail huh?

I just finished making a few changes to my latest Recce build. I had a Radical Firearms 16" mid-length barrel on it, but it was not giving consistent accuracy, so I decided to replace it. I went with a Compass Lake Engineering Recon 16.1" [Douglas Stainless (polished) 1:8 twist] barrel w/ mid-length gas system, Wylde .223 chamber, and matching bolt. I also installed a Compass Lake Engineering Stainless Low Profile Gas Block (.750), Compass Lake Engineering Stainless Mid-length Gas Tube and Roll Pin, and a Advanced Armament Corp. Non-Mount Blackout Flash Hider. I just need to get it to the range now.

Can't speak for others but I really like mine. The tube is light but hell of beefy, same with the barrel nut. Light weight, strong, looks pretty, relatively well priced.