Quoted: All I get are red X's

I fixed it so they should show up now.

I fixed my previous post so the red X's are gone now and the 2006 patent infringing posts of TheOtherDave should show up now.

Quoted: Quoted: All I get are red X's Plus +1 Even still, Bill-take a valium. I like to jerk people's chains. If I wanted to make one of your devices, I would have-in fact, I have the professional capability to make them for myself and the contacts to get where you are at with inventory in a matter of two or three months. Aside from the part that it WAS someone's patent and that I didn't believe it was going to be legal, I didn't waste the time. We aren't talking rocket science here, just a gimmick that works well for what it is supposed to do. I was having fun at the expense of the people in those threads, and boy did it ever work. Haven't you ever jerked anyone's chains, Bill? For your part, it didn't help in those threads when it got around that you chose to gouge people to the tune of $1100 for a plastic stock with a rod/bearing assembly in it because you "didn't want to get them in the hands of gang-bangers". Look, I understand business, I understand profit motives, and I understand a steaming load of bullshit when I hear it. It comes off as being two faced to me that you were willing to stick it to the average Joe gunowner because you know he lives under unfair and unconstitutional laws about ownership of Machine Guns, yet when you get *your* dick slapped down by ATF you want to come crawling to us for support? Bill, you gambled and it didn't pan out. Were you really expecting ATF to allow a working, complete facsimile of a full-auto weapon into the hands of the public without having to see the inside of the courtroom? For crying out loud dude, ATF has gotten convictions for suppressor possession for people with tubing and fender washers in their garage. I'm not saying it's right how they are dealing you, but c'mon man! Dave P.S. You put way too much thought into this shit-my earlier post that you wanted fixed is a great example.. You asked me (a typical gun forum poster) to correct a post that me made. So I did, glancing over it, changed what I thought was wrong with it, buttoned it up and moved on to something else. I had about as much thought in the process as I would wiping my nose. So I revisit the thread again to find that you are now hostile and treating me as some kind of enemy because I didn't jump to dot every line and cross every "T" in a thread that was originally intended to be supportive of you. I'm not glued to my computer, I'm not glued to this thread-in fact, I almost didn't click on it because there is no way this issue is going anywhere unless you do something with your idea that lands your ass in the klink, and I don't think you are going to do that or you already would have.

No Dave, I'm not the kind of person who jerks other peoples chains for no reason at their expense. I try to treat people the way I would like to be treated. I believe in the golden rule.

I invented and patented the Akins Accelerator. Even though the price they sold at was a fraction of what a true fully automatic firearm would cost, I did not set the price for them when they were sold as a product. People keep blaming me for the price of what they cost and calling me "greedy".


I had a partner that was not suposed to according to our corporate bylaws, but did take over the entire corporation and did whatever he wanted and constantly violated our corporate bylaws and even my patent license agreement with the corporation.

He even had Stephen Halbrook (our criminal firearms attorney that I was paying half the legal bills to) write me a letter threatening to gag order me if I did not remain silent about this BATFE abuse even though no such gag order would have been enforceable since no case of any kind had been filed.

He attempted to corporately paralyze me for this past year from doing anything about this injustice until I had to get another attorney to write him demand letters threatening to sue him for these infractions of corporate bylaws and the patent license agreement and he resigned so he would not be in the corporation to be sued by the patent owner which was me.

Then he finally unnecessarily publicly resigned and told everyone that the corporate website and corporate phone lines were shut down over his objections when he had illegally co mingled his privately owned corporation with Akins Group Inc's and bought seven domain names in his name and his privately owned corporation's name that were susposed to be bought and owned by Akins Group Inc which included our corporate website which means only he could have shut down that website along with shutting down the customer phone lines which were going to his home which also only he could shut down.

His final vindictive act just prior to resigning since he realized he was no longer in control and was about to be sued if he did not comply with the corporate bylaws and patent license agreement, was to incur expense for the corporation without my knowledge and to put the corporate inventory into a pod without a resolution of the board of directors nor any corporate authority to do so, and write me that if I wanted to preserve it that I could come from Florida to Oregon to get it or else pay the pod company for storing it, or else lose the inventory to storage liens.

He had the molds, the production, the inventory, took all customer payments, locked me out of posting at our own corporate website, locked me out of posting at his privately owned website, refused to fight this injustice in any way other than to comply, comply, comply with the illegal BATFE ruling so his FFL and SOT licenses would not be harassed by BATFE, all while he deluded customers and the public into thinking he was doing all he could to fight this injustice while in actuality all he did was write a few letters to his reps that I told him from the very beginning probably would do no good.

From the very begining he refused to join me when I wanted to peacefully civilly disobey to fight this illegal ruling and wrote me that he was not going to have BATFE agents running around inside his house. He wrote me that if I peacefully, civilly, disobeyed the illegal BATFE ruling that he would consider my actions criminal and that he would do everything he could to stop the corporation from endemifying me against prosecution and would try to stop the corporation from paying anything in my defense. He wrote this in spite of the fact that our corporate bylaws specifically stipulated that any corporate director was endemified and protected by the corporation and the corporation would pay for any legal fees in an action brought against a director. The only thing he was concerned about was spending a lot of corporate funds to attorneys Stephen Halbrook and Mark Barnes for the corporation to comply to the BATFE ruling to protect his personal other business FFL and SOT licenses from BATFE harassment and trying to make himself look good to our customers so he could continue in his other separate business of making silencers and selling T shirts and coffee mugs that have "Molon Labe" (come take them) printed on them which is the height of hypocrisy when not only was he not willing to fight for his and our Federal firearm rights, but he even tried to blackmail me and paralyze me from taking any action against this ruling on my own.

The public had no idea what was going on because I could not tell them at that time because he could have brought an action against me just for speaking the truth if it was not in the best interests of the corporation.

Thankfully he is now out of the corporation and out of my life and I am the director of the corporation and decide what is in the best interest of the corporation and that is for this BATFE injustice to be peacefully, yet fully opposed. By the time he left the corporation is almost bankrupt. He removed funds from our corporate account without a voted upon board of directors resolution and placed those funds into an account that I cannot access and which is now in bank limbo because he cannot use them since his resignation because that would then be embezzlement but I cannot retrieve them because in a violation of our corporate bylaws he refused to signature me on the account before he resigned. I cannot get access to that account without paying an attorney to get a court order and there is not enough funds left in that account to make it worth getting an attorney to get access to.

All I am left to work with is the small R&D account the board of directors unanimously voted and approved and set up for only myself to be signatured on for prototype research and development and there isn't much left in that.

Even if Akins Group Inc has to soon go into dissolution due to running out of funds, I will have any legal rights to bring civil suit transfered to myself as the patent owner and an individual so that I may preserve those rights if I can find legal representation to bring a civil suit against the BATFE.

I have not been free for almost a year to act because of him paralyzing me corporately to preserve his own other personal private business FFL & SOT license interests from any harassment by the BATFE. Now I am finally free.

It is not a coincidence that now that he is resigned and out of the corporation that I am coming out strong fighting this injustice.

This injustice will not stand.

So you see Dave, neither you nor the public has had a clue of what has been going on.

Not only am I finally free to oppose this injustice and have a HUGE battle ahead of me to oppose this BATFE injustice, but I had to first endure another battle against a control freak partner who did everything he could to silence me and stop me from getting anything done about this that might upset the BATFE against him. One day I will write the full story and include e mails and physical letters that will prove what happened within the corporation.

But all the corporate conflict issues aside, the real culprit in this injustice is the BATFE and I will be centering my focus and attentions on them and opposing this injustice and the corporate conflicts and issues I have mentioned will take second place to opposing this BATFE injustice and illegal ruling.

Now go ahead and call me "greedy" again about the stock prices and accuse me of not fighting this injustice or as you put it and said about me...."if he was going to do something he already would have."

Although it is nobody's business, after backing out the $10,000.00 I spent on getting the patent, for 11 years of my life and for all the trouble I went to, and all the product we sold before the BATFE ruling, I received a grand total of $17,000.00

So much for the "wads of cash" I have been accused of greedily getting.

You do not know what you are talking about and have no idea what has been going on.

Either be totally supportive against this BATFE injustice and illegal ruling which affects all citizen's Federal firearm rights, or please just be silent about things which you have no clue about.

Quoted: (snip) No Dave, I'm not the kind of person who jerks other peoples chains for no reason at their expense. I try to treat people the way I would like to be treated. I believe in the golden rule. I invented and patented the Akins Accelerator. Even though the price they sold at was a fraction of what a true fully automatic firearm would cost, I did not set the price for them when they were sold as a product. People keep blaming me for the price of what they cost and calling me "greedy". I had a partner that was not suposed to according to our corporate bylaws, but did take over the entire corporation and did whatever he wanted and constantly violated our corporate bylaws and even my patent license agreement with the corporation. He even had Stephen Halbrook (our criminal firearms attorney that I was paying half the legal bills to) write me a letter threatening to gag order me if I did not remain silent about this BATFE abuse even though no such gag order would have been enforceable since no case of any kind had been filed. He attempted to corporately paralyze me for this past year from doing anything about this injustice until I had to get another attorney to write him demand letters threatening to sue him for these infractions of corporate bylaws and the patent license agreement and he resigned so he would not be in the corporation to be sued by the patent owner which was me. Then he finally unnecessarily publicly resigned and told everyone that the corporate website and corporate phone lines were shut down over his objections when he had illegally co mingled his privately owned corporation with Akins Group Inc's and bought seven domain names in his name and his privately owned corporation's name that were susposed to be bought and owned by Akins Group Inc which included our corporate website which means only he could have shut down that website along with shutting down the customer phone lines which were going to his home which also only he could shut down. His final vindictive act just prior to resigning since he realized he was no longer in control and was about to be sued if he did not comply with the corporate bylaws and patent license agreement, was to incur expense for the corporation without my knowledge and to put the corporate inventory into a pod without a resolution of the board of directors nor any corporate authority to do so, and write me that if I wanted to preserve it that I could come from Florida to Oregon to get it or else pay the pod company for storing it, or else lose the inventory to storage liens. He had the molds, the production, the inventory, took all customer payments, locked me out of posting at our own corporate website, locked me out of posting at his privately owned website, refused to fight this injustice in any way other than to comply, comply, comply with the illegal BATFE ruling so his FFL and SOT licenses would not be harassed by BATFE, all while he deluded customers and the public into thinking he was doing all he could to fight this injustice while in actuality all he did was write a few letters to his reps that I told him from the very beginning probably would do no good. From the very begining he refused to join me when I wanted to peacefully civilly disobey to fight this and wrote me that he was not going to have BATFE agents running around inside his house. The public had no idea what was going on because I could not tell them at that time because he could have brought an action against me just for speaking the truth if it was not in the best interests of the corporation. Thankfully he is now out of the corporation and out of my life and I am the director of the corporation and decide what is in the best interest of the corporation and that is for this BATFE injustice to be peacefully, yet fully opposed. By the time he left the corporation is almost bankrupt. He removed funds from our corporate account without a voted upon board of directors resolution and placed those funds into an account that I cannot access and which is now in bank limbo because he cannot use them since his resignation because that would then be embezzlement but I cannot retrieve them because in a violation of our corporate bylaws he refused to signature me on the account before he resigned. I cannot get access to that account without paying an attorney to get a court order and there is not enough funds left in that account to make it worth getting an attorney to get access to. All I am left to work with is the small R&D account the board of directors unanimously voted and approved and set up for only myself to be signatured on for prototype research and development and there isn't much left in that. Even if Akins Group Inc has to soon go into dissolution due to running out of funds, I will have any legal rights to bring civil suit transfered to myself as the patent owner and an individual so that I may preserve those rights if I can find legal representation to bring a civil suit against the BATFE. I have not been free for almost a year to act because of him paralyzing me corporately to preserve his own other personal private business FFL & SOT license interests from any harassment by the BATFE. Now I am finally free. It is not a coincidence that now that he is resigned and out of the corporation that I am coming out strong fighting this injustice. This injustice will not stand. So you see Dave, neither you nor the public has had a clue of what has been going on. Not only am I finally free to oppose this injustice and have a HUGE battle ahead of me to oppose this BATFE injustice, but I had to first endue another battle against a control freak partner who did everything he could do silence me and stop me from getting anything done about this that might upset the BATFE against him. One day I will write the full story and include e mails and physical letters that will prove what happened within the corporation. But all the corporate conflict issues aside, the real culprit in this injustice is the BATFE and I will be centering my focus and attentions on them and opposing this injustice and the corporate conflicts and issues I have mentioned will take second place to opposing this BATFE injustice and illegal ruling. Now go ahead and call me "greedy" again about the stock prices and accuse me of of not fighting this injustice or as you put it and said about me...."if he was going to do something he already would have." Although it is nobody's business, after backing out the $10,000.00 I spent on getting the patent, for 11 years of my life and for all the trouble I went to, and all the product we sold before the BATFE ruling, I received a grand total of $17,000.00 So much for the "wads of cash" I have been accused of greedily getting. You do not know what you are talking about and have no idea what has been going on. Either be totally supportive against this BATFE injustice and illegal ruling which affects all citizen's Federal firearm rights, or please just be silent about things which you have no clue about.

I had a feeling something like this had happened. You just never struck me as a business man, Mr. Akins. Even though, it is hard to believe that Tom Bowers (subguns.com) did all of these things. That is who you are referring to isn't it?

I would like to formally apologize for all of the "shit", that I have given you over the past year. I was upset and acted out in a derogatory manner....and I do apologize.

I wish you all the best in this fight!

Sincerely,
David

(aka. Accountant30339 & Accountant90210)

Listen Bill.......


Bottom line is , you got fucked!  No lube, nothing, just a dry, bareback fucking!

NO excuses....the .gov is out of control, and we are powerless to do anything because of $$$$$$.

I am truely sorry it happened, as I would have bought one of your products.  It seemed like it would be a very fun toy!

Many people have bitched about the fact that it is a machine gun....screw them....GCA 1934 is unconstitutional, but nobody has the balls to challenge it.  Miller didn't even show up...that's why he lost the one and only time in 73 years the Supremes tried to do their job!

I sincerely wish you luck in the future, whatever you decide to do!

Bill,

If you actually read the posts of mine you posted on the last page (no, seriously, take the blinders off and re-read them) it's pretty obvious that I was playing Devil's Advocate/Contrarian with the other poster(s) who felt it was their place to be my Moral Police for that day. If I say something off the cuff on an internet post and some jackass tries to spank me for it, he's going to get what he deserves.

Question: In one of these Adkins threads, you were quoted to say something along the lines of the stocks being priced as they were to keep them out of the hands of gang-bangers. Is this true, or not?

As for the rest of your post, It sounds like you are a terrible businessman-something that is a bit of a puzzle given your clarity of thought in business matters now. But, I see the solution to your problem (as you present it) is to sue the pants off of the partner (Hmm.. why not name him?) that wronged you and use those funds to pursue the feds.

Speaking of funds: I'm a tool and die/moldmaker by trade going on 17 years. I have a really, really good idea what tooling and parts cost. For the millions of dollars you claim to have lost, there should just about be an Accelerator stock for every 10/22 in the United States. Ok, it's an exaggeration, but there should be a metric shit-ton of them. As in, way more than would fit in a PODS/Conex container. How many did you actually make?

I honestly believe that you guys knew this wasn't going to last. I honestly believe that you and Mr. Bowers or whoever it was knew that ATF absolutely would not let this fly once they saw videos of people shooting them on YouTube. So, you priced them to the moon and hope it 'stuck'.  Inevitably, they did what anyone would reasonably expect them to do based on previous experiences and shut you down. I do not believe that you lost millions(though 10,000 and your time sounds reasonable), and unless the corporation was on a drunken spending spree (or maybe had a manufacturing facility built) there should still be funds left over if we were to assume that you really did have as much invested in the project as you say. Have you looked into how much of the money went and where?

After reading your last post, I no longer feel sorry for you Bill. It's hard to empathize with Ignorance or Greed. That leads me to wonder what you think it is that we can do for you... Moral support? Ain't gonna get you far. Take up a collection for your legal fees? Nope, too many people see the Adkins Group (and by extension your) activities for what they were.

But hey, Good Luck.

Quoted: Bill, If you actually read the posts of mine you posted on the last page (no, seriously, take the blinders off and re-read them) it's pretty obvious that I was playing Devil's Advocate/Contrarian with the other poster(s) who felt it was their place to be my Moral Police for that day. If I say something off the cuff on an internet post and some jackass tries to spank me for it, he's going to get what he deserves. Question: In one of these Adkins threads, you were quoted to say something along the lines of the stocks being priced as they were to keep them out of the hands of gang-bangers. Is this true, or not? As for the rest of your post, It sounds like you are a terrible businessman-something that is a bit of a puzzle given your clarity of thought in business matters now. But, I see the solution to your problem (as you present it) is to sue the pants off of the partner (Hmm.. why not name him?) that wronged you and use those funds to pursue the feds. Speaking of funds: I'm a tool and die/moldmaker by trade going on 17 years. I have a really, really good idea what tooling and parts cost. For the millions of dollars you claim to have lost, there should just about be an Accelerator stock for every 10/22 in the United States. Ok, it's an exaggeration, but there should be a metric shit-ton of them. As in, way more than would fit in a PODS/Conex container. How many did you actually make? I honestly believe that you guys knew this wasn't going to last. I honestly believe that you and Mr. Bowers or whoever it was knew that ATF absolutely would not let this fly once they saw videos of people shooting them on YouTube. So, you priced them to the moon and hope it 'stuck'.  Inevitably, they did what anyone would reasonably expect them to do based on previous experiences and shut you down. I do not believe that you lost millions(though 10,000 and your time sounds reasonable), and unless the corporation was on a drunken spending spree (or maybe had a manufacturing facility built) there should still be funds left over if we were to assume that you really did have as much invested in the project as you say. Have you looked into how much of the money went and where? After reading your last post, I no longer feel sorry for you Bill. It's hard to empathize with Ignorance or Greed. That leads me to wonder what you think it is that we can do for you... Moral support? Ain't gonna get you far. Take up a collection for your legal fees? Nope, too many people see the Adkins Group (and by extension your) activities for what they were. But hey, Good Luck.

There is no sense in trying to talk with you. You cannot see the truth or simply do not want to. You've already admitted that you enjoy "pulling people's chains at their expense" and you continue to do so with me. You backpedal and try to justify your 2006 patent infringement posts with a ridiculous argument that you were playing devils advocate to others who were "policing" you, even though no one had chided you or policed you in any way when you first posted gleefully in 2006 that you were going to make your own infringement of my patent and said "it would really suck if plans wound up on the internet." No one had said anything negative to you at all prior to that, so your argument that you were just saying that to pull their chains is plain for everyone to see untruthful. Everyone here can see exactly what you said in them. Even after in my last post I explained things as best and truthfully as I can, you still don't get it, or else get it, but want to pull my chain anyway because as you said, you enjoy doing that.

This situation reminds me of something my grandaddy told me many years ago. He said "Never try to teach a pig to sing, you waste your time and annoy the pig." I think the people here can see the truth as well as see your lack of ethics, character and honor based upon your recent posts and also your blatant 2006 infringement posts which speak volumes about your character and speak for themselves.

Why do I post here and on the internet at all for that matter? Because I want there to be a public record of what the BATFE illegally did, what happened to me, the corporation and the product in case anything happens to me. I know no one here can actually help me financially to bring suit against the BATFE or in any other way other than to maybe write some letters to their representatives and or go with me to see my congresswoman, and I do not expect any help other than that kind.

Believe whatever you want TheOTherDave, I no longer care what you think or believe. You have proven to me and everyone here what kind of person you are and I will no longer answer you or pay you any mind whatsoever after this post. By your own admission you like to taunt people, pull their chains and get a kick out of arguing and dragging someone down unnecessarily. It is apparent you like to kick someone when they are down as well. I feel sorry for someone like yourself that has to get their kicks out of taunting people and "pulling their chains" and giving them a hard time unnecessarily.
Your earlier post to me that I had your "utmost respect" was not true and your recent posts and 2006 posts that I reposted prove that to everyone here. I wasn't about to let you get away with it. I will waste no more time on one such as you.

Quoted: Quoted: Bill, If you actually read the posts of mine you posted on the last page (no, seriously, take the blinders off and re-read them) it's pretty obvious that I was playing Devil's Advocate/Contrarian with the other poster(s) who felt it was their place to be my Moral Police for that day. If I say something off the cuff on an internet post and some jackass tries to spank me for it, he's going to get what he deserves. Question: In one of these Adkins threads, you were quoted to say something along the lines of the stocks being priced as they were to keep them out of the hands of gang-bangers. Is this true, or not? As for the rest of your post, It sounds like you are a terrible businessman-something that is a bit of a puzzle given your clarity of thought in business matters now. But, I see the solution to your problem (as you present it) is to sue the pants off of the partner (Hmm.. why not name him?) that wronged you and use those funds to pursue the feds. Speaking of funds: I'm a tool and die/moldmaker by trade going on 17 years. I have a really, really good idea what tooling and parts cost. For the millions of dollars you claim to have lost, there should just about be an Accelerator stock for every 10/22 in the United States. Ok, it's an exaggeration, but there should be a metric shit-ton of them. As in, way more than would fit in a PODS/Conex container. How many did you actually make? I honestly believe that you guys knew this wasn't going to last. I honestly believe that you and Mr. Bowers or whoever it was knew that ATF absolutely would not let this fly once they saw videos of people shooting them on YouTube. So, you priced them to the moon and hope it 'stuck'.  Inevitably, they did what anyone would reasonably expect them to do based on previous experiences and shut you down. I do not believe that you lost millions(though 10,000 and your time sounds reasonable), and unless the corporation was on a drunken spending spree (or maybe had a manufacturing facility built) there should still be funds left over if we were to assume that you really did have as much invested in the project as you say. Have you looked into how much of the money went and where? After reading your last post, I no longer feel sorry for you Bill. It's hard to empathize with Ignorance or Greed. That leads me to wonder what you think it is that we can do for you... Moral support? Ain't gonna get you far. Take up a collection for your legal fees? Nope, too many people see the Adkins Group (and by extension your) activities for what they were. But hey, Good Luck. There is no sense in trying to talk with you. You cannot see the truth or simply do not want to. You've already admitted that you enjoy pulling people's chains at their expense and you continue to do so with me. You backpedal and try to justify your 2006 patent infringement posts with ridiculous argument even though they are plain to see and everyone here can see exactly what you said in them. Even after I explain things as best and truthfully as I can, you still don't get it, or else get it, but want to pull my chain anyway. This situation reminds me of something my grandaddy told me many years ago. He said "Never try to teach a pig to sing, you waste your time and annoy the pig." I think the people here can see the truth as well as see your lack of ethics, character and honor based upon your recent posts and also your blatant 2006 infringement posts which speak volumes about your character and speak for themselves. Why do I post here and on the internet at all for that matter? Because I want there to be a public record of what the BATFE illegally did, what happened to me, the corporation and the product in case anything happens to me. I know no one here can actually help me financially to bring suit against the BATFE or in any other way other than to maybe write some letters to their representatives and or go with me to see my congresswoman, and I do not expect any help other than that kind. Believe whatever you want TheOTherDave, I no longer care what you think or believe. You have proven to me and everyone here what kind of person you are and I will no longer answer you or pay you any mind whatsoever after this post. By your own admission you like to taunt people, pull their chains and get a kick out of arguing and dragging someone down. It is apparent you like to kick someone when they are down as well. Your earlier post to me that I had your "utmost respect" was not true and your recent posts and 2006 posts prove that.

Nice red herring


The bottom line is you f-cked yourself.  With all do respect to your "granddaddy" he should have told you if you sleep with dogs your going to get fleas.  You, your crooked buddy and your dubious business practices are to blame, not the ATF.

Bill, you sure are wordy for a guy who doesn't care...

ETA: Bill, I haven't been jerking your chain-I did it in the original thread because the man was disrespectful to me. Again, If you read my posts you will clearly see that I did not actually plan copy any of your work. No interest at the time, or since. It was a neat curiousity at the time, but not important enough to me to break out a mill and lathe and start making chips. My initial comment about making one was because I was flabbergasted at the price you or whoever put on the stock-thre's no other way to see or justify it. You say that the stocks were "a fraction of the cost of a transferrable machine gun". Yes, and a large fraction indeed. It was like looking at a $400 (at the most) stock that had $700 worth of Greed Tax and Stupid Tax built in. Thankyou Sir! May I have Another?

 You can't reasonably expect people to think any different than I/We do given what we know, and the fact that you show up a year later with all kinds of wild accusations about the government and Tom Bowers. I think it would probably serve your credibility here if you showed *something* that supports what you are saying.

I will say this, ARFCOM like to fight for the underdog. You might be surprised how little support you have right now-while I can't speak for others, the lack of other posters telling me to STFU says a lot-they ain't shy about it.

I'm going to again wish you luck, I hope you don't try to turn that around on me like when I had respect for you-I had totally forgotten the price gouging when I typed that. It's been a year and your product, your patent, and your ill-fortunes just aren't important enough for me to keep up with like it was yesterday.

I'll bet you wished you had submitted a working sample now...

Dave

Quoted: I had a feeling something like this had happened. You just never struck me as a business man, Mr. Akins. Even though, it is hard to believe that Tom Bowers (subguns.com) did all of these things. That is who you are referring to isn't it? I would like to formally apologize for all of the "shit", that I have given you over the past year. I was upset and acted out in a derogatory manner....and I do apologize. I wish you all the best in this fight! Sincerely, David (aka. Accountant30339 & Accountant90210)

Thanks, I'm glad you can recognize the truth when you finally hear it.

Tag

Quoted: Nice red herring The bottom line is you f-cked yourself.  With all do respect to your "granddaddy" he should have told you if you sleep with dogs your going to get fleas.  You, your crooked buddy and your dubious business practices are to blame, not the ATF.

I see. So you think an agency that already violates citizen's 2nd amendment rights daily and that twice approved my invention BASED ON ITS CONCEPT AND METHOD OF OPERATION, (and not based on any specific caliber or rifle type) and once that agency allowed us to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars based on that agency's approval that agency then turned around and in violation of federal firearms law then changed its mind and wrote an illegal ruling (opinion not law) banning it without giving any compensation to us whatsoever, and you now state that abusive federal agency is blameless. Amazing, just amazing. With this kind of logic and division in our ranks, who needs the Brady bunch, Schumer, Kennedy, Clinton or the BATFE, because given enough time we will disarm ourselves with stupidity.

Why should we care that you got screwed over gun rights when your corporation was so willing to do it to us?

Quoted: Quoted: Nice red herring The bottom line is you f-cked yourself.  With all do respect to your "granddaddy" he should have told you if you sleep with dogs your going to get fleas.  You, your crooked buddy and your dubious business practices are to blame, not the ATF. I see. So you think an agency that already violates citizen's 2nd amendment rights daily and that twice approved my invention BASED ON ITS CONCEPT AND METHOD OF OPERATION, (and not based on any specific caliber or rifle type) and once that agency allowed us to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars based on that agency's approval that agency then turned around and in violation of federal firearms law then changed its mind and wrote an illegal ruling (opinion not law) banning it without giving any compensation to us whatsoever, and you now state that abusive federal agency is blameless. Amazing, just amazing. With this kind of logic and division in our ranks, who needs the Brady bunch, Schumer, Kennedy, Clinton or the BATFE, because given enough time we will disarm ourselves with stupidity.

WOW

The ATF did not solicit you to build your toy.  How is it the ATF's fault you spent money with your crooked partner?  The way I see it the ATF has acted as it traditionally does; with great incompetence and deceit.  It is their nature.  It is common knowledge that you have to go way beyond do diligence with these jokers.  You should have known better.  The ATF said "Trust us" and you did?  Look what your greed bought you.  The ATF is not our friend; but your marketing and pricing strategy prove you are no friend to the common shooter.

Quoted: Get it legal again and reprice it at $300-$350 range and I will buy one. At what to me seems an unreasonable price when they were available, I don't have a dog in the fight either way.

I think the price of gas is unreasonable. I think the price of a Mercedes and Ferrari are unreasonable. I think the price of machine shops and tool and die makers is unreasonable, I think a few years ago when beenie baby and tickle me Elmo dolls were sold out at the stores and sold on e bay for a scalping $300.00 is unreasonable, I think the price of avocado pears (that I love to eat) at the supermarket is unreasonable. I think the price of attorneys is unreasonable. I think the retirement benefits of our elected officials are unreasonable. I think the price of full auto machine guns is unreasonable when they were bought by someone at a lower price and then they jacked up the price after several years to double or triple what it cost them but no one calls them greedy. I think homeowners taxes are unreasonable. I think income tax is unreasonable. I think the Federal Reserve not being audited since its creation in 1912 is unreasonable. I think spouse abuse is unreasonable. I think being taxed on your bank account interest when you already paid taxes on the money before you put it in the bank is double taxation and unreasonable, I think hungry people living on the streets is unreasonable, I think doctor's fees and the cost of prescription drugs is unreasonable.

But.....The public has no idea how much that doctor's education cost, or the attorney's law school cost, or  how much those mercedes and ferrari body molds cost, or  how much in fuel costs it was to ship those avocado pears, or how much the machine shop or tool and die maker has in his education and equipment. In a free enterprise market system, people can charge whatever they want and that doesn't make them greedy. It makes them free enterprise entrepreneurs and businessmen who have a right to make a profit on their efforts and enterprise and charge whatever they want based upon what the economic market will allow.  

I don't understand all this besides an attempt at sympathy.

Your device turned the 10/22 into a de facto machine gun.

New machine guns are prohibitied.

It's bullshit and it sucks. I didn't like paying $6,500 for my $650 UZI, but I did.

The real mistake BATFE made was "approving" your device in the first place.

We'd all love to see the '86 ban gone tomorrow, but until that happens, we have to live in the reality that exists today, OR spend the money trying to fight the system.

Bill, you'll get plenty of empathy, but not much sympathy around here.

This thread reminds of the the saying about arguing on the internet, and participating in the special olympics

A machine gun as defined by LAW is a device that will empty the contence of the magazine with one function of the trigger. The Adkins device is not a machine gun by definition of law. Hellfire switches, cranks, rubber bands, and the etc. work in this gray area legality other wise they too would be illegal. BATFE has been playing a game for the last two decades that I have seen with interpretation of existing laws to suit their purposes therefore creating new laws by circumventing the Congress the Senate and Presidential approval and it must come to a halt. Now that BATFE is under the Justice dept. I was hoping abuses like this would stop but apparently the only thing that will stop them is the White House or just dissolving the agency altogether and turning over their duties to a more professional agency. I wish Mr. Adkins luck with his battle with the BATFE because it is likely to be a long one.

M4-Daddy, nobody here is saying that the Feds didn't screw him or that his gimmick is a machine gun.

Quoted: But.....The public has no idea how much that doctor's education cost, or the attorney's law school cost, or  how much those mercedes and ferrari body molds cost, or  how much in fuel costs it was to ship those avocado pears, or how much the machine shop or tool and die maker has in his education and equipment. In a free enterprise market system, people can charge whatever they want and that doesn't make them greedy. It makes them free enterprise entrepreneurs and businessmen who have a right to make a profit on their efforts and enterprise and charge whatever they want based upon what the economic market will allow.

I do, and I'm still not seeing millions of dollars down the drain. BTW, you never said how many stock sets you had to produce, and how many you had to eat after it was all said and done. I still stand by my assertion that you couldn't fit even $250,000 worth of Accelerator stocks in a Conex container. If you lost millions as you claim, it went somewhere else.


And, yes, it's greed when you have a captive buying audience. Sort of how you think that the cost of medicine is unreasonable.... How would you like it if you choked on one of your beloved pears, went to the ER, they gave you a pill that was going to save your life, but it cost $3 million dollars and you had to have it.

Would you think the drug company that made that pill "Greedy" because they had you by the balls and were going to dry-dick you for all it was worth?

Quoted: M4-Daddy, nobody here is saying that the Feds didn't screw him or that his gimmick is a machine gun.

Well, I said it was a machine gun.

How many times does your finger move to depress the trigger?

Yeah, yeah, the trigger moves back and forth and back and forth.

Novel invention, still a machine gun in my eyes, but hey, I'm not the BATFE and I don't play them on the internet.

Quoted: Quoted: But.....The public has no idea how much that doctor's education cost, or the attorney's law school cost, or  how much those mercedes and ferrari body molds cost, or  how much in fuel costs it was to ship those avocado pears, or how much the machine shop or tool and die maker has in his education and equipment. In a free enterprise market system, people can charge whatever they want and that doesn't make them greedy. It makes them free enterprise entrepreneurs and businessmen who have a right to make a profit on their efforts and enterprise and charge whatever they want based upon what the economic market will allow.   I do, and I'm still not seeing millions of dollars down the drain. BTW, you never said how many stock sets you had to produce, and how many you had to eat after it was all said and done. I still stand by my assertion that you couldn't fit even $250,000 worth of Accelerator stocks in a Conex container. If you lost millions as you claim, it went somewhere else. And, yes, it's greed when you have a captive buying audience. Sort of how you think that the cost of medicine is unreasonable.... How would you like it if you choked on one of your beloved pears, went to the ER, they gave you a pill that was going to save your life, but it cost $3 million dollars and you had to have it. Would you think the drug company that made that pill "Greedy" because they had you by the balls and were going to dry-dick you for all it was worth?

Your analogy-fu is weak ass...  Medicine costs so much because fully 1/3 of the people who visit the hospital where I will will never pay a penny.  The is a for-profit hospital that the government said you have to treat everyone regardless of their ability to pay.  Liability costs in this country are ridiculous.  Please stick to the topic.

Bill
ATF did screw you but only because you or your partner let them.

Over a year ago I showed my wife a video of your device when it first came out to see what she thought.

She said " Only a fool would buy one and not expect it to be recalled in less that a year for being a machine gun. "

I dont believe she saw what you could not. She doesnt know shit about firearms laws.


Good luck, I hope you sell a million of them someday.

Quoted: Your analogy-fu is weak ass...  Medicine costs so much because fully 1/3 of the people who visit the hospital where I will will never pay a penny.  The is a for-profit hospital that the government said you have to treat everyone regardless of their ability to pay.  Liability costs in this country are ridiculous.  Please stick to the topic.

Okay, let's say that the pill 'only' cost $1 million. Still represent a fair deal?

Quoted: Quoted: M4-Daddy, nobody here is saying that the Feds didn't screw him or that his gimmick is a machine gun. Well, I said it was a machine gun. How many times does your finger move to depress the trigger? Yeah, yeah, the trigger moves back and forth and back and forth. Novel invention, still a machine gun in my eyes, but hey, I'm not the BATFE and I don't play them on the internet.

The gun fires once for every manual manipulation of the trigger, which is in compliance with the law as it is written.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: M4-Daddy, nobody here is saying that the Feds didn't screw him or that his gimmick is a machine gun. Well, I said it was a machine gun. How many times does your finger move to depress the trigger? Yeah, yeah, the trigger moves back and forth and back and forth. Novel invention, still a machine gun in my eyes, but hey, I'm not the BATFE and I don't play them on the internet. The gun fires once for every manual manipulation of the trigger, which is in compliance with the law as it is written.

It's an argument of semantics

I've fired one, a local range had one as a rental.  You only consciously pull the trigger once, and the machine does the rest of the work.

Quoted: It's an argument of semantics I've fired one, a local range had one as a rental.  You only consciously pull the trigger once, and the machine does the rest of the work.

Yes, that's my understanding. The device may not follow the spirit of the law, but it does follow the letter.

Quoted: Quoted: It's an argument of semantics I've fired one, a local range had one as a rental.  You only consciously pull the trigger once, and the machine does the rest of the work. Yes, that's my understanding. The device may not follow the spirit of the law, but it does follow the letter.

The spirit AND letter of the law says "Shall not be infringed" but they (Feds) always forget that part!

Quoted: RenegadeX you are being a jackass.  If you have no expert knowledge on this subject then please get the fuck out of this thread.  Seriously man, gun rights are taking a beating and you are hear boasting your support for the ATF.

I take the side of the truth. If you can't handle the truth, perhaps you are the one who should "get the fuck out of this thread". This entire episode did not have to happen, but when folks do not learn from the past,....

Quoted: The gun fires once for every manual manipulation of the trigger, which is in compliance with the law as it is written.

Well there is more to the written law than meets the eye. There is also the CFR, and the dozens if not hundreds of Case Law examples that have already examined similar issues about what is and is not a MG and been ruled upon. So it is a complex issue that requires research.

So far as I know, nobody has been arrested, charged or prosecuted, and the ATF Opinion it is a MG it is just that an Opinion.

Quoted: Quoted: Where is the NRA? They've been busy working with the Brady Bunch pushing the PTSD bill through congress.

Which went thru the house and senate without a SINGLE vote!!  That's democracy at work kids.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: M4-Daddy, nobody here is saying that the Feds didn't screw him or that his gimmick is a machine gun. Well, I said it was a machine gun. How many times does your finger move to depress the trigger? Yeah, yeah, the trigger moves back and forth and back and forth. Novel invention, still a machine gun in my eyes, but hey, I'm not the BATFE and I don't play them on the internet. The gun fires once for every manual manipulation of the trigger, which is in compliance with the law as it is written. It's an argument of semantics I've fired one, a local range had one as a rental.  You only consciously pull the trigger once, and the machine does the rest of the work.

"NATIONAL FIREARM'S ACT TITLE 26, UNITED STATES CODE, CHAPTER 53, SECTION 5845B
The term machinegun means any weapon which shoots, is designed to shoot, or can be readily restored to shoot, automatically more than one shot, without manual reloading, by a single function of the trigger."


Carefully read the above Federal law. Do you see the words "conscious" or "pull" in the wording of the law?
There is no mention of "consciously" pulling the trigger in that law. There is no mention of "pulling" the trigger in that law. The word is "function". Function can be pushing, rotating or any other means to "function" the trigger besides "pulling". In the case of my invention a single "function" of the trigger occurs when the finger meets the trigger and functions it to fire. Otherwise according to your logic bumpfiring any semi automatic even without any rapid fire device falls under the BATFE ruling. This is exactly the same thing the illegal BATFE ruling says and the very real danger I have been trying to tell people about while getting flack from uninformed and uneducated people who do not know or understand what the law says and are missing the point entirely and calling me greedy and asking corporate business questions that are none of their business and not pertinent to the point here at all. The BATFE ruling illegally outlaws bumpfiring and any firearm capable of bumpfiring. That would be most all semi automatic weapons. I am trying to tell people the gestapo is at the door and they are saying I shouldn't have looked so jewish and shouldn't have charged so much at the deli. I don't know which one is worse, ignorance or stupidity. From what I have experienced with the naysayers, defeatest talkers, critics of the price of the item when that is not the issue at all, I am starting to wonder if maybe some people here would deserve to lose their semi auto rights and even be totally disarmed. Why should I fight for and lay my freedom on the line with the possibility of going to prison for people such as this? These are the people that would benefit if I win the fight yet they don't understand the law, do not know what the law says a machine gun is, give me nothing but grief. Now tell me, why would you deserve to benefit from it if I win this battle? How about some unity instead of the divisive ignorant rhetoric I have been getting. I have met some knowledgeable, intelligent and defenders and lovers of freedom here at AR15. I have also met the opposite. How many of you have written your senators and congresspersons to complain about this illegal ruling and to urge your representatives to not confirm Michael J. Sullivan as director to the BATFE until he cleans up the mess at BATFE and stops harassing dealers, for so called "willful" insignificant accounting mistakes and stops trying to make law through regulatory rulings????
If some people spent half the time contacting their representatives as they do spouting ignorance towards me, we could get our laws fixed. I have had both Senatorial and Congresional staffers assigned to my case and I have gone above and beyond the call of duty for not only mine, but your firearm rights as well. Have you all done the same?
What will some of you say if I win this battle after all your defeatist and divisive talk and ignorance of calling my device a machine gun? What could you possibly say then? Sorry we were wrong? After all the grief that would be about it wouldn't it? Some people are proud eagles, some are cattle and some are cowardly mice. I guess I just expected more of people here than I do in other venues.

Jefferson was right. People do get the kind of government they deserve. If people are ignorant and stupid, they will get ignorant and stupid government.

The NEW Bumpstick

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: M4-Daddy, nobody here is saying that the Feds didn't screw him or that his gimmick is a machine gun. Well, I said it was a machine gun. How many times does your finger move to depress the trigger? Yeah, yeah, the trigger moves back and forth and back and forth. Novel invention, still a machine gun in my eyes, but hey, I'm not the BATFE and I don't play them on the internet. The gun fires once for every manual manipulation of the trigger, which is in compliance with the law as it is written. It's an argument of semantics I've fired one, a local range had one as a rental.  You only consciously pull the trigger once, and the machine does the rest of the work. "NATIONAL FIREARM'S ACT TITLE 26, UNITED STATES CODE, CHAPTER 53, SECTION 5845B The term machinegun means any weapon which shoots, is designed to shoot, or can be readily restored to shoot, automatically more than one shot, without manual reloading, by a single function of the trigger." Carefully read the above Federal law. Do you see the words "conscious" or "pull" in the wording of the law? There is no mention of "consciously" pulling the trigger in that law. There is no mention of "pulling" the trigger in that law. The word is "function". Function can be pushing, rotating or any other means to "function" the trigger besides "pulling". In the case of my invention a single "function" of the trigger occurs when the finger meets the trigger and functions it to fire. Otherwise according to your logic bumpfiring any semi automatic even without any rapid fire device falls under the BATFE ruling. This is exactly the same thing the illegal BATFE ruling says and the very real danger I have been trying to tell people about while getting flack from uninformed and uneducated people who do not know or understand what the law says and are missing the point entirely and calling me greedy and asking corporate business questions that are none of their business and not pertinent to the point here at all. The BATFE ruling illegally outlaws bumpfiring and any firearm capable of bumpfiring. That would be most all semi automatic weapons. I am trying to tell people the gestapo is at the door and they are saying I shouldn't have looked so jewish and shouldn't have charged so much at the deli. I don't know which one is worse, ignorance or stupidity. From what I have experienced with the naysayers, defeatest talkers, critics of the price of the item when that is not the issue at all, I am starting to wonder if maybe some people here would deserve to lose their semi auto rights and even be totally disarmed. Why should I fight for and lay my freedom on the line with the possibility of going to prison for people such as this? These are the people that would benefit if I win the fight yet they don't understand the law, do not know what the law says a machine gun is, give me nothing but grief. Now tell me, why would you deserve to benefit from it if I win this battle? How about some unity instead of the divisive ignorant rhetoric I have been getting. I have met some knowledgeable, intelligent and defenders and lovers of freedom here at AR15. I have also met the opposite. How many of you have written your senators and congresspersons to complain about this illegal ruling and to urge your representatives to not confirm Michael J. Sullivan as director to the BATFE until he cleans up the mess at BATFE and stops harassing dealers, for so called "willful" insignificant accounting mistakes and stops trying to make law through regulatory rulings???? If some people spent half the time contacting their representatives as they do spouting ignorance towards me, we could get our laws fixed. I have had both Senatorial and Congresional staffers assigned to my case and I have gone above and beyond the call of duty for not only mine, but your firearm rights as well. Have you all done the same? What will some of you say if I win this battle after all your defeatist and divisive talk and ignorance of calling my device a machine gun? What could you possibly say then? Sorry we were wrong? After all the grief that would be about it wouldn't it? Some people are proud eagles, some are cattle and some are cowardly mice. I guess I just expected more of people here than I do in other venues. Jefferson was right. People do get the kind of government they deserve. If people are ignorant and stupid, they will get ignorant and stupid government.

Mr. Akins,

I am very sorry that the Government is the way it is.  Your device is LEGAL and should be in everyone's home.

I am truly sorry and feel the same way as you.  We are being shafted!!!!!

Quoted: Quoted: Your analogy-fu is weak ass...  Medicine costs so much because fully 1/3 of the people who visit the hospital where I will will never pay a penny.  The is a for-profit hospital that the government said you have to treat everyone regardless of their ability to pay.  Liability costs in this country are ridiculous.  Please stick to the topic. Okay, let's say that the pill 'only' cost $1 million. Still represent a fair deal?

For your analogy to work everyone who wants a gun could not be denied for any reason, AND gun manufacturers would have to give them one for free if they didn't have insurance.  Nope your analogy is poor.

I do not think the BATF&E SHOULD be able to regulate guns independently.  They have proven they suck at this task (they are hardly fair arbiters).  Enforcement sure, someone has to do this part but why allow them to interpret and enforce?  This system is designed to create abuse.

Clearly a stock is not a machine gun.  In this case the stock helped the user bump fire better and so much better that the BATF&E said "we don't want people to have this stock".  (This part should bother everyone.)  They were able to twist current law so incredibly far as to outlaw something that helps a USER PULL the trigger faster.  (I await the BATF&E decision regarding my 4 and 1/2 pound 1911 trigger job.)  Mr. and Mrs America turn them all in...

If I were Jerry Miculek I would be worried about the legality of my finger.

The shoe lace and the bumpstick should probably be illegal under this decision.  

(I would not have bought this product since I don't own the host firearm.)

Quoted: "NATIONAL FIREARM'S ACT TITLE 26, UNITED STATES CODE, CHAPTER 53, SECTION 5845B The term machinegun means any weapon which shoots, is designed to shoot, or can be readily restored to shoot, automatically more than one shot, without manual reloading, by a single function of the trigger." Carefully read the above Federal law. Do you see the words "conscious" or "pull" in the wording of the law? There is no mention of "consciously" pulling the trigger in that law. There is no mention of "pulling" the trigger in that law. The word is "function". Function can be pushing, rotating or any other means to "function" the trigger besides "pulling". In the case of my invention a single "function" of the trigger occurs when the finger meets the trigger and functions it to fire. Otherwise according to your logic bumpfiring any semi automatic even without any rapid fire device falls under the BATFE ruling. This is exactly the same thing the illegal BATFE ruling says and the very real danger I have been trying to tell people about while getting flack from uninformed and uneducated people who do not know or understand what the law says and are missing the point entirely and calling me greedy and asking corporate business questions that are none of their business and not pertinent to the point here at all. The BATFE ruling illegally outlaws bumpfiring and any firearm capable of bumpfiring. That would be most all semi automatic weapons. I am trying to tell people the gestapo is at the door and they are saying I shouldn't have looked so jewish and shouldn't have charged so much at the deli. I don't know which one is worse, ignorance or stupidity. From what I have experienced with the naysayers, defeatest talkers, critics of the price of the item when that is not the issue at all, I am starting to wonder if maybe some people here would deserve to lose their semi auto rights and even be totally disarmed. Why should I fight for and lay my freedom on the line with the possibility of going to prison for people such as this? These are the people that would benefit if I win the fight yet they don't understand the law, do not know what the law says a machine gun is, give me nothing but grief. Now tell me, why would you deserve to benefit from it if I win this battle? How about some unity instead of the divisive ignorant rhetoric I have been getting. I have met some knowledgeable, intelligent and defenders and lovers of freedom here at AR15. I have also met the opposite. How many of you have written your senators and congresspersons to complain about this illegal ruling and to urge your representatives to not confirm Michael J. Sullivan as director to the BATFE until he cleans up the mess at BATFE and stops harassing dealers, for so called "willful" insignificant accounting mistakes and stops trying to make law through regulatory rulings???? If some people spent half the time contacting their representatives as they do spouting ignorance towards me, we could get our laws fixed. I have had both Senatorial and Congresional staffers assigned to my case and I have gone above and beyond the call of duty for not only mine, but your firearm rights as well. Have you all done the same? What will some of you say if I win this battle after all your defeatist and divisive talk and ignorance of calling my device a machine gun? What could you possibly say then? Sorry we were wrong? After all the grief that would be about it wouldn't it? Some people are proud eagles, some are cattle and some are cowardly mice. I guess I just expected more of people here than I do in other venues. Jefferson was right. People do get the kind of government they deserve. If people are ignorant and stupid, they will get ignorant and stupid government.

Bill, you clearly marketed a machine gun that is not a "Machine Gun" with the full intent of people buying it because it was a machine gun that did not cost $5k.

Apparently we're not as naive as you...

Quoted: The NEW Bumpstick

Quoted: "NATIONAL FIREARM'S ACT TITLE 26, UNITED STATES CODE, CHAPTER 53, SECTION 5845B The term machinegun means any weapon which shoots, is designed to shoot, or can be readily restored to shoot, automatically more than one shot, without manual reloading, by a single function of the trigger." Carefully read the above Federal law. Do you see the words "conscious" or "pull" in the wording of the law? There is no mention of "consciously" pulling the trigger in that law. There is no mention of "pulling" the trigger in that law. The word is "function". Function can be pushing, rotating or any other means to "function" the trigger besides "pulling". In the case of my invention a single "function" of the trigger occurs when the finger meets the trigger and functions it to fire. Otherwise according to your logic bumpfiring any semi automatic even without any rapid fire device falls under the BATFE ruling. This is exactly the same thing the illegal BATFE ruling says and the very real danger I have been trying to tell people about while getting flack from uninformed and uneducated people who do not know or understand what the law says and are missing the point entirely and calling me greedy and asking corporate business questions that are none of their business and not pertinent to the point here at all. The BATFE ruling illegally outlaws bumpfiring and any firearm capable of bumpfiring. That would be most all semi automatic weapons. I am trying to tell people the gestapo is at the door and they are saying I shouldn't have looked so jewish and shouldn't have charged so much at the deli. I don't know which one is worse, ignorance or stupidity. From what I have experienced with the naysayers, defeatest talkers, critics of the price of the item when that is not the issue at all, I am starting to wonder if maybe some people here would deserve to lose their semi auto rights and even be totally disarmed. Why should I fight for and lay my freedom on the line with the possibility of going to prison for people such as this? These are the people that would benefit if I win the fight yet they don't understand the law, do not know what the law says a machine gun is, give me nothing but grief. Now tell me, why would you deserve to benefit from it if I win this battle? How about some unity instead of the divisive ignorant rhetoric I have been getting. I have met some knowledgeable, intelligent and defenders and lovers of freedom here at AR15. I have also met the opposite. How many of you have written your senators and congresspersons to complain about this illegal ruling and to urge your representatives to not confirm Michael J. Sullivan as director to the BATFE until he cleans up the mess at BATFE and stops harassing dealers, for so called "willful" insignificant accounting mistakes and stops trying to make law through regulatory rulings???? If some people spent half the time contacting their representatives as they do spouting ignorance towards me, we could get our laws fixed. I have had both Senatorial and Congresional staffers assigned to my case and I have gone above and beyond the call of duty for not only mine, but your firearm rights as well. Have you all done the same? What will some of you say if I win this battle after all your defeatist and divisive talk and ignorance of calling my device a machine gun? What could you possibly say then? Sorry we were wrong? After all the grief that would be about it wouldn't it? Some people are proud eagles, some are cattle and some are cowardly mice. I guess I just expected more of people here than I do in other venues. Jefferson was right. People do get the kind of government they deserve. If people are ignorant and stupid, they will get ignorant and stupid government.

Bill,

I do feel bad for you and it is clear Uncle Sugar is not to be trusted.  Whats new.  You made a pseudo machine gun.  We all know it.  It "mimics" a machine gun. You did not do this for the cause.  If anything you have muddied the water.  You did this to make a profit.  Great, you made a better mouse trap.  But do not insult us with the notion that you are some kind of uber patriot that is willing to die for our sins.  You danced with the devil and lost.  Don't cry about a cooked dick when you pee on an electric fence.

Quoted: Bill, you clearly marketed a machine gun that is not a "Machine Gun" with the full intent of people buying it because it was a machine gun that did not cost $5k. Apparently we're not as naive as you...

By your reasoning then, the hellfire and tac trigger rapid fire devices are marketed machine guns that are not machine guns. They do the exact same thing mine did except that mine was in a stationary stock. Also by your reasoning when anyone bump fires they are shooting a machine gun that is not a machine gun. It does not matter that mine worked better or was more accurate. Working BETTER or being more accurate would have nothing to do with legality.

If you have read the BATFE ruling you know that by its wording specifics it bans not only my accelerator, but also the hellfire and tac trigger and any semi automatic that is capable of bumpfiring. The BATFE has not only written a ruling that violates Federal firearms law, they are selectively enforcing it. Why you may ask? Simple. Politics. The hellfire has been approved by the BATFE for 25 or 30 years almost. The tac trigger is almost identical to the hellfire. The BATFE knows their ruling outlaws both those devices too, but BATFE hasn't hassled either of them or shut them down because it would be too embarassing for BATFE to shut down the hellfire that they have approved for that many decades. I am the new guy on the block and had only been approved for 2 years so by shutting me down they do not have as much egg on their faces nor face a manufacturer who may have finances to fight them with from selling for decades. Sullivan needed to placate Kerry, Kennedy and the Brady Group because they are his supporters for him to be confirmed as BATFE director. The Akins Accelerator was his offering to the anti gun gods.

Bump firing is possible without any kind of a device. Easy to do as a matter of fact. The hellfire, tac trigger and Akins Accelerator are nothing more than aids to bump firing.

There is more to this I fear that may come out if we get an anti gun prez in office. If I get this to court and lose and this ruling becomes law, then all they have to do is say this ruling is now law and that law makes any firearm capable of violating their new law is a machine gun. That would outlaw all semi automatics capable of bump firing.

Does everyone now understand the danger I am trying to clue you all to? It is not about my device, it is not about me wanting sympathy, I don't want sympathy nor need it, that and a dollar will get me a cup of coffee.


I have tried to warn you all. I have tried to show you how this bans the hellfire and tac trigger and all semi autos capable of bumpfiring, but BATFE selectively enforces this for now just against me because they know that banning the hellfire and tac trigger and semi autos would cause a huge stink and clue everyone to what their future agenda is. This is a slow stalk against semi automatic weapons by an anti gun massachusets prosecutor that wants to be confirmed as BATFE director.
This is bigger than my accelerator. This is a groundwork to outlaw all semi automatics without congressional vote.

Quoted: Quoted: "NATIONAL FIREARM'S ACT TITLE 26, UNITED STATES CODE, CHAPTER 53, SECTION 5845B The term machinegun means any weapon which shoots, is designed to shoot, or can be readily restored to shoot, automatically more than one shot, without manual reloading, by a single function of the trigger." Carefully read the above Federal law. Do you see the words "conscious" or "pull" in the wording of the law? There is no mention of "consciously" pulling the trigger in that law. There is no mention of "pulling" the trigger in that law. The word is "function". Function can be pushing, rotating or any other means to "function" the trigger besides "pulling". In the case of my invention a single "function" of the trigger occurs when the finger meets the trigger and functions it to fire. Otherwise according to your logic bumpfiring any semi automatic even without any rapid fire device falls under the BATFE ruling. This is exactly the same thing the illegal BATFE ruling says and the very real danger I have been trying to tell people about while getting flack from uninformed and uneducated people who do not know or understand what the law says and are missing the point entirely and calling me greedy and asking corporate business questions that are none of their business and not pertinent to the point here at all. The BATFE ruling illegally outlaws bumpfiring and any firearm capable of bumpfiring. That would be most all semi automatic weapons. I am trying to tell people the gestapo is at the door and they are saying I shouldn't have looked so jewish and shouldn't have charged so much at the deli. I don't know which one is worse, ignorance or stupidity. From what I have experienced with the naysayers, defeatest talkers, critics of the price of the item when that is not the issue at all, I am starting to wonder if maybe some people here would deserve to lose their semi auto rights and even be totally disarmed. Why should I fight for and lay my freedom on the line with the possibility of going to prison for people such as this? These are the people that would benefit if I win the fight yet they don't understand the law, do not know what the law says a machine gun is, give me nothing but grief. Now tell me, why would you deserve to benefit from it if I win this battle? How about some unity instead of the divisive ignorant rhetoric I have been getting. I have met some knowledgeable, intelligent and defenders and lovers of freedom here at AR15. I have also met the opposite. How many of you have written your senators and congresspersons to complain about this illegal ruling and to urge your representatives to not confirm Michael J. Sullivan as director to the BATFE until he cleans up the mess at BATFE and stops harassing dealers, for so called "willful" insignificant accounting mistakes and stops trying to make law through regulatory rulings???? If some people spent half the time contacting their representatives as they do spouting ignorance towards me, we could get our laws fixed. I have had both Senatorial and Congresional staffers assigned to my case and I have gone above and beyond the call of duty for not only mine, but your firearm rights as well. Have you all done the same? What will some of you say if I win this battle after all your defeatist and divisive talk and ignorance of calling my device a machine gun? What could you possibly say then? Sorry we were wrong? After all the grief that would be about it wouldn't it? Some people are proud eagles, some are cattle and some are cowardly mice. I guess I just expected more of people here than I do in other venues. Jefferson was right. People do get the kind of government they deserve. If people are ignorant and stupid, they will get ignorant and stupid government. Bill, I do feel bad for you and it is clear Uncle Sugar is not to be trusted.  Whats new.  You made a pseudo machine gun.  We all know it.  It "mimics" a machine gun. You did not do this for the cause.  If anything you have muddied the water.  You did this to make a profit.  Great, you made a better mouse trap.  But do not insult us with the notion that you are some kind of uber patriot that is willing to die for our sins.  You danced with the devil and lost.  Don't cry about a cooked dick when you pee on an electric fence.

By your reasoning the hellfire and tac trigger muddied the water also I suspose. They do the same thing my device does except for my stationary stock. Don't you wonder why they have not been shut down when they both clearly fall under the same illegal ruling that shut my device down. Because it would be too obvious what the agenda is. The agenda is to get this illegal ruling challenged and hopefully the plaintiff will lose and their ruling will become law. Watch what happens then. Any semi auto capable of bump firing......Illegal.

Don't you folks get it? It is not hard to understand. This is not about me "crying" about anything for Christ's sake, this is about me warning you who are too blind to see what is happening. This ruling outlaws bump firing and anything that can be bump fired. Period.

I can't believe people are so complacent about this and don't see the big picture. Forget about me damnit. This is not about me. I'm surely not wasting my time here trying to get sympathy which wouldn't do me any good. Sure I am telling you about my experience and how I have been selectively enforced against, but for a reason. This is about what is coming. Open your eyes. Today the Akins Accelerator, tomorrow a court adjudication making the BATFE ruling a law. The next thing, there go your semi autos. Think it can't or won't happen? Fine, I won't waste any more time trying to get you people to understand. If they can do what they did to me, what do you think they will do to you and your semi's if this ruling becomes a law? Right now our semi auto rights are being stalked and you guys think its all about me.  

If they can call a shoe lace a MG, your device was bound to be doomed.

Have you set up any kind of fund that we could send donations for your suit against the JBTs?

Quoted: I won't waste any more time trying to get you people to understand. If they can do what they did to me, what do you think they will do to you and your semi's if this ruling becomes a law? Right now our semi auto rights are being stalked and you guys think its all about me.

Bill,

You may not believe this but I support your efforts.  Regardless of how you got there I support your fight.  I imagine most people support you. Don't throw the baby out with the bath water.  

If my brother did something I thought was foolish, I would f-ck with him about how stupid I thought he was.  However, in the end I am still going to support my brother.

2006-2 is scary. It could be the beginning in making any gun capable of bumpfiring a machine gun.        

I hate that we are 4 pages into this and nobody pointed out that the ban on new machine guns is BS too.

Quoted: Quoted: Bill, you clearly marketed a machine gun that is not a "Machine Gun" with the full intent of people buying it because it was a machine gun that did not cost $5k. Apparently we're not as naive as you... By your reasoning then, the hellfire and tac trigger rapid fire devices are marketed machine guns that are not machine guns. They do the exact same thing mine did except that mine was in a stationary stock. Also by your reasoning when anyone bump fires they are shooting a machine gun that is not a machine gun. It does not matter that mine worked better or was more accurate. Working BETTER or being more accurate would have nothing to do with legality. If you have read the BATFE ruling you know that by its wording specifics it bans not only my accelerator, but also the hellfire and tac trigger and any semi automatic that is capable of bumpfiring. The BATFE has not only written a ruling that violates Federal firearms law, they are selectively enforcing it. Why you may ask? Simple. Politics. The hellfire has been approved by the BATFE for 25 or 30 years almost. The tac trigger is almost identical to the hellfire. The BATFE knows their ruling outlaws both those devices too, but BATFE hasn't hassled either of them or shut them down because it would be too embarassing for BATFE to shut down the hellfire that they have approved for that many decades. I am the new guy on the block and had only been approved for 2 years so by shutting me down they do not have as much egg on their faces nor face a manufacturer who may have finances to fight them with from selling for decades. Sullivan needed to placate Kerry, Kennedy and the Brady Group because they are his supporters for him to be confirmed as BATFE director. The Akins Accelerator was his offering to the anti gun gods. Bump firing is possible without any kind of a device. Easy to do as a matter of fact. The hellfire, tac trigger and Akins Accelerator are nothing more than aids to bump firing. There is more to this I fear that may come out if we get an anti gun prez in office. If I get this to court and lose and this ruling becomes law, then all they have to do is say this ruling is now law and that law makes any firearm capable of violating their new law is a machine gun. That would outlaw all semi automatics capable of bump firing. Does everyone now understand the danger I am trying to clue you all to? It is not about my device, it is not about me wanting sympathy, I don't want sympathy nor need it, that and a dollar will get me a cup of coffee. I have tried to warn you all. I have tried to show you how this bans the hellfire and tac trigger and all semi autos capable of bumpfiring, but BATFE selectively enforces this for now just against me because they know that banning the hellfire and tac trigger and semi autos would cause a huge stink and clue everyone to what their future agenda is. This is a slow stalk against semi automatic weapons by an anti gun massachusets prosecutor that wants to be confirmed as BATFE director. This is bigger than my accelerator. This is a groundwork to outlaw all semi automatics without congressional vote.

You are being rather melodramatic.

We all understand the situation.

Many of us are prepared to deal with it, when the time comes.

Do you really think ALL of us have our guns and gear for hunting or target shooting?  Again, naive.

When the day comes, you can read all about me and my glorious stand against tyranny in "yet ANOTHER isolated incident"

Quoted: The hellfire and tac trigger rapid fire devices are marketed machine guns that are not machine guns. They do the exact same thing mine did except that mine was in a stationary stock.

   The difference between Bump Firing, and your Accellerator is you still have to know how to "Bumpfire" in order to get the Tac Trigger/ Hell Fire/ or my rubber band assisted bumpfire technique to work. If the shooter doesn't know how to bump fire his gun then these devices won't work. The Hellfire devices were marketed to make "money". What they didn't tell you was that they would only work on guns that could be bump fired without any assistance from any device. That is why most people will say they are crap and don't work.

The gunshop I used to work at had one of you Accellerators in our rental program. Your stock "Functions Automatically" requiring no instructions on how to get it to do what it does. The stock you invented takes the Technique out of bumpfiring.


    When I started my website www.poormans-machinegun.com I submited a letter asking the BATF FTB to define the term "Bump-Fire", a copy of their responce can be seen here.

Quoted:       If you have read the BATFE ruling you know that by its wording specifics it bans not only my accelerator, but also the hellfire and tac trigger and any semi automatic that is capable of bumpfiring.

    I have read the BATF ruling 4 times reguarding the accellerator, and it mentions nothing about the Hellfire devices being illegal now. By all means please point the text of this to back up your statement. size=2]

Quoted: If they can call a shoe lace a MG, your device was bound to be doomed. Have you set up any kind of fund that we could send donations for your suit against the JBTs?

I appreciate the thought akethan, but no I haven't set up any find of defense fund asking for donations for legal fees. It would be almost fruitless because the legal fees needed would be in the hundreds of thousands of dollars and even if many people responded sending in $10, $20, $50 or even $100, it would be just a drop in the bucket for what would be needed. I wouldn't want to ask for or take money from people in this situation. What is actually needed here is a law firm or attorney that would take the case on a contingency basis or even pro bono for the exposure it would give them in a high profile case. This could possibly happen, but hard to find a firm or individual who will do this. I have already been turned down by one firm saying my case has merit but they cannot take it on contingency. I am continuing to try though.

Thanks again for the kind thought and offer though.

Quoted: Quoted: I won't waste any more time trying to get you people to understand. If they can do what they did to me, what do you think they will do to you and your semi's if this ruling becomes a law? Right now our semi auto rights are being stalked and you guys think its all about me.   Bill, You may not believe this but I support your efforts.  Regardless of how you got there I support your fight.  I imagine most people support you. Don't throw the baby out with the bath water.   If my brother did something I thought was foolish, I would f-ck with him about how stupid I thought he was.  However, in the end I am still going to support my brother.

Thanks AR15Rifleman. It is comforting to know I have your moral support in the overall battle against this BATFE violation of our Federal firearms law rights.

Quoted: 2006-2 is scary. It could be the beginning in making any gun capable of bumpfiring a machine gun.

Ding,ding,ding, BINGO! You understand and grasp it exactly correctly.

Quoted: Quoted: The hellfire and tac trigger rapid fire devices are marketed machine guns that are not machine guns. They do the exact same thing mine did except that mine was in a stationary stock.    The difference between Bump Firing, and your Accellerator is you still have to know how to "Bumpfire" in order to get the Tac Trigger/ Hell Fire/ or my rubber band assisted bumpfire technique to work. If the shooter doesn't know how to bump fire his gun then these devices won't work. The Hellfire devices were marketed to make "money". What they didn't tell you was that they would only work on guns that could be bump fired without any assistance from any device. That is why most people will say they are crap and don't work.    The gunshop I used to work at had one of you Accellerators in our rental program. Your stock "Functions Automatically" requiring no instructions on how to get it to do what it does. The stock you invented takes the Technique out of bumpfiring.     When I started my website www.poormans-machinegun.com I submited a letter asking the BATF FTB to define the term "Bump-Fire", a copy of their responce can be seen here. www.poormans-machinegun.com/atf%20letter.JPG Quoted:       If you have read the BATFE ruling you know that by its wording specifics it bans not only my accelerator, but also the hellfire and tac trigger and any semi automatic that is capable of bumpfiring.     I have read the BATF ruling 4 times reguarding the accellerator, and it mentions nothing about the Hellfire devices being illegal now. By all means please point the text of this to back up your statement.

The wording of the illegal 2006-02 ruling bans the hellfire, tac trigger, my device and the process of bumpfiring itself plus any weapon capable of bumpfiring. It does not mention bump firing, the hellfire or tac trigger by name, but the ruling's wording that BATFE says outlaws my device, also applies to these other devices and bump firing in general.

The ruling is long, but to summarize it and what they interpret to be illegal, they say...."Once the trigger is "pulled" it initiates a sequence of automatic fire that continues until the finger is removed or the magazine is empty." With my device the finger is COMPLETELY removed from the trigger for each shot. With the hellfire and tac trigger your finger RIDES the trigger and never completely disengages from it even though the trigger resets. However my device and the others all allow the trigger to reset and function separately for each shot.

The above ruling's wording just described the function of my device, the hellfire, tac trigger and even bump firing without any device at all. It didn't have to list them by name as it mentioned my device's name. The language of the ruling describes what they consider illegal and that describes what these other devices and bump firing in general does. This is the danger. Any semi automatic weapon capable of bump firing now falls under this ruling whether the BATFE decides to selectively enforce it or not. What if they at some time decide TO enforce it against all semi autos.

Quoted: Where is the NRA?

The NRA will sit this one out because it basicly proves the ANTI-GUN-O-CRATS claim that "they spray shoot", and Wayne LaPierre would be foolish to challenge Charles Schumer and say that assault weapons can't function in that mannor. The last thing the NRA needs is to be proven wrong by an anti-gunner showing the world someone bumpfiring an AR15 low at the hip.