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Posted: 1/20/2023 2:06:25 AM EDT
Not much info yet, just stumbled across this:
https://www.instagram.com/p/CnkaG50y85M/?hl=en Cant tell much about it other than its pretty slender. Anyone have more info? **Edit** its a 7.62x51 class bullpup, possibly with some type of recoil mitigation system; should begin 21m: https://youtu.be/NgfsYjlZOkY?t=1272 **Edit 2** More info, may be called the 'commando' |
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Looks slim and I think the designer likes rails. There’s 7’ of rail space on there.
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Almost has like a "EM-2 if Modern" kind of look to it. I like it for the most part.
Been interested in a .308 cal Bullpup, and this one looks like it has the potential to be lightish. |
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I like the small pad, it should play nicely with armor, however will pop length of pulls
usually don’t anyways |
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I'm curious about their recoil spring and feed mechanism; doesn't look to be a whole lot of space behind the mag.
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I know BRO catches a lot of flak here, but mine is probably the AR I've been most impressed with, despite it being my cheapest AR.
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holy shit. A tiny 308 thin bullpup would be fantastic for HD and truck gun duty. If one wanted/needed a small cannon.... I want one.
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Any bets how much it'll cost? I have no real information but I'd bet $6k ish.
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Want. Interesting what sort of stuff grabs all the attention at shot. This seems really cool to me, but nary a mention of it.
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I like the slim profile. A lot of bullpups look like 8 inch planks.
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Aesthetically pleasing gun designs have been dead for 25+ years. This just continues the trend
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I love my Tavor 7, but it is HEAVY. The guy claims it's an entirely new operating system, not DI or piston. Sounds cool if it actually works. My guess is they never hit the market, hopefully I'm wrong.
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If this is legit - I'll be buying that.
My spec: <$2k 6.5 CM Reliable 1.5 MOA repeatedly and holds zero Weights less than an AUG Interesting that he went right up to .308+, and not 5.56. Frankly, all I want is a light weight 6.5 Grendel at <1.5MOA. If I can get a lightweight 6.5CM at <1.5, so much the better. |
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If it weighs less than an AUG, is reliable, and is 1.5 MOA consistent with good ammo, I'm all aboard for a .308 model. Might even be a worthwhile replacement for my AUG to make better use of the open spaces and high wind in my area.
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I don't see how it could weigh less than the AUG.
AUG extended rail: 7.8lbs SCAR 17: 8lbs M17 .308: 8.2lbs Tavor 7 weight: 9.04lbs |
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Quoted: I don't see how it could weigh less than the AUG. AUG extended rail: 7.8lbs SCAR 17: 8lbs M17 .308: 8.2lbs Tavor 7 weight: 9.04lbs View Quote RDB: 6.8 lb. So with some thought, 1lb weight drop was achieved vs the AUG. AUGs are heavy. MDRx is 8.3lb. Drop a lb off of that (not hard to do), and you're at 7.3lb. His sample he's handling, assuming not a bullshit prop (it happens), looks considerably lighter and sleeker. Which is lighter than an AUG. |
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Quoted: RDB: 6.8 lb. So with some thought, 1lb weight drop was achieved vs the AUG. AUGs are heavy. MDRx is 8.3lb. Drop a lb off of that (not hard to do), and you're at 7.3lb. His sample he's handling, assuming not a bullshit prop (it happens), looks considerably lighter and sleeker. Which is lighter than an AUG. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: I don't see how it could weigh less than the AUG. AUG extended rail: 7.8lbs SCAR 17: 8lbs M17 .308: 8.2lbs Tavor 7 weight: 9.04lbs RDB: 6.8 lb. So with some thought, 1lb weight drop was achieved vs the AUG. AUGs are heavy. MDRx is 8.3lb. Drop a lb off of that (not hard to do), and you're at 7.3lb. His sample he's handling, assuming not a bullshit prop (it happens), looks considerably lighter and sleeker. Which is lighter than an AUG. Keltec's are consistently among the lightest rifles/pistols in the world though. And even their RFB .308 is 8.1-8.7lbs (conflicting specs are published.) Heres a master list of 5.56 rifle weights I've compiled. For piston driven military rifles, theres nearly as many heavier rifles than the AUG as there are lighter ones. LE6920: 6.29LBS M4A1 FN: 6.36LBS S+T BR18 14.5”: 6.39bs M4A2 416 barrel: 6.5lbs KAK SR15 Mod 2: 6.55lbs LWRC IC DI: 6.6lbs KelTec RDB: 6.7lbs ARX 100: 6.8LBS T91 16”: 6.99lbs ST BR18 20”: 7.05lbs Thales F90: 7.17lbs SCAR 16S: 7.25lbs LWRC IC-A5: 7.3lbs ACR: 7.3lbs Arsenal SLR-106: 7.3lbs CZ Bren 2 MS: 7.3lbs K17 Bullpup: 7.4lbs LMT CQB16: 7.45lbs F2000 Tactical: 7.47lbs Thales F90 20”: 7.47lbs SG 551: 7.48 SIG Spear LT: 7.5lbs HK416A5 14.5” - 7.69lbs HOWA T98: 7.7lbs HK 433 16”: 7.72LBS AK-12: 7.72lbs Aug A3 M1 High Rail: 7.8lbs HK 416 a5 16” : 7.85lbs Tavor X95 16: 7.9lbs Tavor SAR 16: 7.9lbs SIG MCX Virtus: 7.9lbs Haenel MK556: 7.94lbs AK-101 5.56: 7.94lbs ACE 23 18”: 7.94lbs VHS Hellion: 8lbs HK G36V 18”:; 8lbs MSBS GROT: 8.05lbs M96 Beryl: 8.05lbs IWI Carmel: 8.125lbs Steyr STM556: 8.15lbs VHS-K2: 8.17lbs MSBS Bullpup: 8.27lbs L85A2 20” - 8.4lbs I'd say if BRO is able to hit 8lbs with their new 7.62 Bullpup that would be a huge success. |
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Quoted: Keltec's are consistently among the lightest rifles/pistols in the world though. And even their RFB .308 is 8.1-8.7lbs (conflicting specs are published.) Heres a master list of 5.56 rifle weights I've compiled. For piston driven military rifles, theres nearly as many heavier rifles than the AUG as there are lighter ones. LE6920: 6.29LBS M4A1 FN: 6.36LBS S+T BR18 14.5”: 6.39bs M4A2 416 barrel: 6.5lbs KAK SR15 Mod 2: 6.55lbs LWRC IC DI: 6.6lbs KelTec RDB: 6.7lbs ARX 100: 6.8LBS T91 16”: 6.99lbs ST BR18 20”: 7.05lbs Thales F90: 7.17lbs SCAR 16S: 7.25lbs LWRC IC-A5: 7.3lbs ACR: 7.3lbs Arsenal SLR-106: 7.3lbs CZ Bren 2 MS: 7.3lbs K17 Bullpup: 7.4lbs LMT CQB16: 7.45lbs F2000 Tactical: 7.47lbs Thales F90 20”: 7.47lbs SG 551: 7.48 SIG Spear LT: 7.5lbs HK416A5 14.5” - 7.69lbs HOWA T98: 7.7lbs HK 433 16”: 7.72LBS AK-12: 7.72lbs Aug A3 M1 High Rail: 7.8lbs HK 416 a5 16” : 7.85lbs Tavor X95 16: 7.9lbs Tavor SAR 16: 7.9lbs SIG MCX Virtus: 7.9lbs Haenel MK556: 7.94lbs AK-101 5.56: 7.94lbs ACE 23 18”: 7.94lbs VHS Hellion: 8lbs HK G36V 18”:; 8lbs MSBS GROT: 8.05lbs M96 Beryl: 8.05lbs IWI Carmel: 8.125lbs Steyr STM556: 8.15lbs VHS-K2: 8.17lbs MSBS Bullpup: 8.27lbs L85A2 20” - 8.4lbs I'd say if BRO is able to hit 8lbs with their new 7.62 Bullpup that would be a huge success. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I don't see how it could weigh less than the AUG. AUG extended rail: 7.8lbs SCAR 17: 8lbs M17 .308: 8.2lbs Tavor 7 weight: 9.04lbs RDB: 6.8 lb. So with some thought, 1lb weight drop was achieved vs the AUG. AUGs are heavy. MDRx is 8.3lb. Drop a lb off of that (not hard to do), and you're at 7.3lb. His sample he's handling, assuming not a bullshit prop (it happens), looks considerably lighter and sleeker. Which is lighter than an AUG. Keltec's are consistently among the lightest rifles/pistols in the world though. And even their RFB .308 is 8.1-8.7lbs (conflicting specs are published.) Heres a master list of 5.56 rifle weights I've compiled. For piston driven military rifles, theres nearly as many heavier rifles than the AUG as there are lighter ones. LE6920: 6.29LBS M4A1 FN: 6.36LBS S+T BR18 14.5”: 6.39bs M4A2 416 barrel: 6.5lbs KAK SR15 Mod 2: 6.55lbs LWRC IC DI: 6.6lbs KelTec RDB: 6.7lbs ARX 100: 6.8LBS T91 16”: 6.99lbs ST BR18 20”: 7.05lbs Thales F90: 7.17lbs SCAR 16S: 7.25lbs LWRC IC-A5: 7.3lbs ACR: 7.3lbs Arsenal SLR-106: 7.3lbs CZ Bren 2 MS: 7.3lbs K17 Bullpup: 7.4lbs LMT CQB16: 7.45lbs F2000 Tactical: 7.47lbs Thales F90 20”: 7.47lbs SG 551: 7.48 SIG Spear LT: 7.5lbs HK416A5 14.5” - 7.69lbs HOWA T98: 7.7lbs HK 433 16”: 7.72LBS AK-12: 7.72lbs Aug A3 M1 High Rail: 7.8lbs HK 416 a5 16” : 7.85lbs Tavor X95 16: 7.9lbs Tavor SAR 16: 7.9lbs SIG MCX Virtus: 7.9lbs Haenel MK556: 7.94lbs AK-101 5.56: 7.94lbs ACE 23 18”: 7.94lbs VHS Hellion: 8lbs HK G36V 18”:; 8lbs MSBS GROT: 8.05lbs M96 Beryl: 8.05lbs IWI Carmel: 8.125lbs Steyr STM556: 8.15lbs VHS-K2: 8.17lbs MSBS Bullpup: 8.27lbs L85A2 20” - 8.4lbs I'd say if BRO is able to hit 8lbs with their new 7.62 Bullpup that would be a huge success. Sure I'll agree. And I think he's going to do even better then that. I can't wait to see this. |
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Quoted: Sure I'll agree. And I think he's going to do even better then that. I can't wait to see this. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I don't see how it could weigh less than the AUG. AUG extended rail: 7.8lbs SCAR 17: 8lbs M17 .308: 8.2lbs Tavor 7 weight: 9.04lbs RDB: 6.8 lb. So with some thought, 1lb weight drop was achieved vs the AUG. AUGs are heavy. MDRx is 8.3lb. Drop a lb off of that (not hard to do), and you're at 7.3lb. His sample he's handling, assuming not a bullshit prop (it happens), looks considerably lighter and sleeker. Which is lighter than an AUG. Keltec's are consistently among the lightest rifles/pistols in the world though. And even their RFB .308 is 8.1-8.7lbs (conflicting specs are published.) Heres a master list of 5.56 rifle weights I've compiled. For piston driven military rifles, theres nearly as many heavier rifles than the AUG as there are lighter ones. LE6920: 6.29LBS M4A1 FN: 6.36LBS S+T BR18 14.5”: 6.39bs M4A2 416 barrel: 6.5lbs KAK SR15 Mod 2: 6.55lbs LWRC IC DI: 6.6lbs KelTec RDB: 6.7lbs ARX 100: 6.8LBS T91 16”: 6.99lbs ST BR18 20”: 7.05lbs Thales F90: 7.17lbs SCAR 16S: 7.25lbs LWRC IC-A5: 7.3lbs ACR: 7.3lbs Arsenal SLR-106: 7.3lbs CZ Bren 2 MS: 7.3lbs K17 Bullpup: 7.4lbs LMT CQB16: 7.45lbs F2000 Tactical: 7.47lbs Thales F90 20”: 7.47lbs SG 551: 7.48 SIG Spear LT: 7.5lbs HK416A5 14.5” - 7.69lbs HOWA T98: 7.7lbs HK 433 16”: 7.72LBS AK-12: 7.72lbs Aug A3 M1 High Rail: 7.8lbs HK 416 a5 16” : 7.85lbs Tavor X95 16: 7.9lbs Tavor SAR 16: 7.9lbs SIG MCX Virtus: 7.9lbs Haenel MK556: 7.94lbs AK-101 5.56: 7.94lbs ACE 23 18”: 7.94lbs VHS Hellion: 8lbs HK G36V 18”:; 8lbs MSBS GROT: 8.05lbs M96 Beryl: 8.05lbs IWI Carmel: 8.125lbs Steyr STM556: 8.15lbs VHS-K2: 8.17lbs MSBS Bullpup: 8.27lbs L85A2 20” - 8.4lbs I'd say if BRO is able to hit 8lbs with their new 7.62 Bullpup that would be a huge success. Sure I'll agree. And I think he's going to do even better then that. I can't wait to see this. I'm rooting for you to be right I just don't want us throwing tomatoes at this guy if he doesn't manage to make his .308 bullpup lighter then a 5.56 bullpup. |
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Love the external look. But I'm skeptical.
. Firstly bullpups are bulky. Sure they're shorter but the bulk is rough to deal with sometimes especially in a 5.56. I sold a Tavor in favor of a 11.5" AR SBR build a few years back and it was like one of the best decisions ever. Shorty 5.56" ars or so sleek and handy these days they're hard to beat in any bullpup even with the longer barrel length. But that changes a lot in 308. 308 being a bigger platform already the bullpup idea starts to shine through some more, couple that with the sleekness of this particular design I think this could be very very handy. But the fact it's a "new hybrid" system and rep makes these claims that seem a bit overzealous makes me a bit skeptical. It's like we've seen so many bullpups come and go and they couldn't do the things they said they would in 5.56 alone and from big manufacturers....seems odd that this rifle from this smaller company is going to make one in 50bmg, 338 lapua, 308...etc, in a new system is going to work out better than say the Desert Tech debacle. . That being said I want this rifle to be greatest 308 bullpup ever. Hell I want it to be the greatest bullpup ever, lol. |
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I am actually uncertain if BRO is a smaller company that Desert Tech. Their website has 34 product lines, they were able to outsource the design of their Rifle in less than a year including a functional prototype at shot show.
The signs I am seeing is that BRO may be significantly larger than DT. I found this article from 4 years ago. https://www.joplinglobe.com/news/local_news/black-rain-ordnance-hits-10-year-mark/article_db15d246-4cc8-5568-b4db-7b9a6f4db40a.html#:~:text=From%20those%20humble%20beginnings%2C%20their,shop%2C%20offices%20and%20retail%20space. If it is true it would most most likely be out producing Desert Tech by at least a factor of 10:1 as current estimates of MDRx's are about 1000 per year based on serial numbers. On top of thay they sell in big box stores. I think Desert Tech is sweating. As far as operating system goes, he said it was a hybrid system in the shot show video. So I am guessing it operates like the Perun. https://youtu.be/zFR2zHfLZqc |
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Quoted: I am actually uncertain if BRO is a smaller company that Desert Tech. Their website has 34 product lines, they were able to outsource the design of their Rifle in less than a year including a functional prototype at shot show. The signs I am seeing is that BRO may he significantly larger than DT. I found this article from 4 years ago. https://www.joplinglobe.com/news/local_news/black-rain-ordnance-hits-10-year-mark/article_db15d246-4cc8-5568-b4db-7b9a6f4db40a.html#:~:text=From%20those%20humble%20beginnings%2C%20their,shop%2C%20offices%20and%20retail%20space. If it is true it would most most likely be out producing Desert Tech by at least a factor of 10:1 as current estimates of MDRx's are about 1000 per year based on serial numbers. On top of thay they sell in big box stores. I think Desert Tech is sweating. As far as operating system goes, he said it was a hybrid system in the shot show video. So I am guessing it operates like the Perun. https://youtu.be/zFR2zHfLZqc View Quote Wow thanks for posting that. That Perun is a really cool system, smart. Hopefully your suspicion is correct and this bull pup uses something similar. |
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It looks like a metal pipe but if it delivers what they are saying I’m on board!
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Notice there is a video/PowerPoint running in the background of the Classic Firearms footage. Unfortunately much of it is obscured by the presenter.
I think it's called the Commando Series. EDIT: Yep. https://www.instagram.com/p/CnsCwmlP3R_/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link |
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I'm not really digging his way of marketing it, hoping the rifle isn't as snakeoil feeling as his way of hyping it up.
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Quoted: I'm not really digging his way of marketing it, hoping the rifle isn't as snakeoil feeling as his way of hyping it up. View Quote The guy is pretty excited, but if I would be too if someone built one of my firearms ideas. (btw if anyone would like to invest in a single stack, ultra thin longslide pistol in 32NAA +p+ that will be marketed as 'The Stiletto' please DM me ) |
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His style of writing reminds me a lot of this kooky guy who used to be on bullpupforum hyping 6.5g in every thread. He claimed he had a bullpup design that was better than anything else, but wouldn't share details and he had a very difficult time communicating his thoughts without coming across as abrasive. If it really is him, I'll have a good laugh.
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Quoted: His style of writing reminds me a lot of this kooky guy who used to be on bullpupforum hyping 6.5g in every thread. He claimed he had a bullpup design that was better than anything else, but wouldn't share details and he had a very difficult time communicating his thoughts without coming across as abrasive. If it really is him, I'll have a good laugh. View Quote I remember seeing those posts on BPF, got the same feeling as this guy's marketing. Hit the nail on the head as to why it rubbed me the wrong way. If it is him, I'd have expected one in 6.5 Grendel with how he was. |
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first things i notice:
carrier travels a similar distance to conventional rifles, unlike most bullpups which have unusually long travel designed by people who understand what's going on with AR and bolt gun trends based on the slimness the "totally new bolt" is probably a square 4 lug design. in a way it's very obvious to make 4 lug bolts from a manufacturing perspective, always curious why nobody did it i suspect the "hybrid" between long stroke and DI is similar to what the tavor does the gas tube is the top rail, which is what allows the height over bore to be so low. this can be seen on the TV in the background the handguard does not contact the trunnion. good for accuracy length of pull still unusually long like all bullpups. that trigger could be quite a bit farther back i like it. senex is gonna have to move over if this thing is worth a shit |
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Quoted: first things i notice: carrier travels a similar distance to conventional rifles, unlike most bullpups which have unusually long travel designed by people who understand what's going on with AR and bolt gun trends based on the slimness the "totally new bolt" is probably a square 4 lug design. in a way it's very obvious to make 4 lug bolts from a manufacturing perspective, always curious why nobody did it i suspect the "hybrid" between long stroke and DI is similar to what the tavor does the gas tube is the top rail, which is what allows the height over bore to be so low. this can be seen on the TV in the background the handguard does not contact the trunnion. good for accuracy length of pull still unusually long like all bullpups. that trigger could be quite a bit farther back i like it. senex is gonna have to move over if this thing is worth a shit View Quote 100% Agree. I'm still excited about Senex, but this is more a step forward, whereas Senex brings best of breed compatibility. I would say I want to get both, but truth is I will probably only be able to afford one. One thing I'll add, Sawyer does have a good reputation. So even if he is a little bit over the top on the "SEAL sniper" thing, I think he's the real deal and does know a thing or two about how to run a gun. |
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First glance I thought he's knocking off the K&M rifle, appearance-wise at least!
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The key advantage to a bullpup is a full length barrel in an SBR size. 16" barrel and shorter than a 10.5" AR.And getting better ballistics out of the longer barrel.
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Looks pretty cool. Hope it works out. We need more bullpup players out there. Wish it would have been at range day
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I'll echo the sentiment that it's nice to finally see a slim new bullpup design, although the LOP looks rather long.
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Tfb covers the rifle..still light on details
A Sci-Fi Bullpup Battle Rifle from Black Rain Ordnance? |
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Holy Cow.
1. Multi cal 2. Optics rail is bolted to barrel 3. Quick change barrel (presumably) 4. Composite chassis 5. Aluminum option 6. 2023 for sale 7. $1000 to $3000 price depending on features |
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