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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - G5 Failure... so says AAC (Page 4 of 9)

Posted: 6/12/2007 1:51:41 PM EDT

[#1]

height=8

Quoted:
I still want to see if the basic question whether it is welded or not answered....

That would be nice if its possible.

THEY'RE NOT. LOOK AT THE PICTURES. UNLESS ROBERT HAS INVENTED A WELD ERASER THAT NOT ONLY SEPARATES THE COMPONENTS BUT GETS RID OF ANY TRACE OF THE WELD, THE CORE IS NOT WELDED.

Posted: 6/12/2007 1:52:43 PM EDT

[#2]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Like I stated before, I would REALLY like to see the way the mount was put on the 416. Not that I think it will make any difference, I just want to see a pic or video of it.

Actually, if you look at the Gemtech Shot Show video you can see exactly how it mounts. GaLEO said the spacer used on their 416 during testing looked exactly like the one on the Gemtech 416 in the video.

Quoted:
Actually, my partner and I would be the perfect candiates for this test:

He likes and sells the Gem-TEch cans.
I like and sell the AAC cans.

We both have post sample M-16s and both of us would put a 10.5" upper together for the test.

Now, we just have to get Dr. Dater and Kevin to form 5 an M4-2000 and a G5 to us for testing.

I'll even buy the cases of ammo!

Ahh, you've gotta buy current ones straight from the shelf though, otherwise you open both companies up to sending ringer cans!!!! You should both order one and not tell either company that you're gonna try and fry them.

Y'all could always take up a colleciton and we could order the cans straight off the shelf

Posted: 6/12/2007 1:53:49 PM EDT

[#3]

Quoted:
A WELD ERASER!.

Now that's an idea!

Posted: 6/12/2007 2:06:22 PM EDT

[#4]

pardon my post but I would like to see other g5 owners or cans and see if they are welded or not...

Fuck ups happen in all industries....

Posted: 6/12/2007 3:37:09 PM EDT

[#5]

Quoted:
The infamous shiv issue, I assume you mean the one that after mr Shiv swore up and down he did not abuse the product AAC repaired it to like new condition for no charge.

I believe he was refering to the case where a customer sent a silencer in and was told it would not be covered, then when revealed that it was Shivan and the story was posted, the silencer was then covered.

I suppose you could make the case that they figured they could trust him since they knew of him, but the only thing that changed between "you'll have to pay" and "it's on us" was the Reveal...

Posted: 6/12/2007 3:40:10 PM EDT

[#6]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Like I stated before, I would REALLY like to see the way the mount was put on the 416. Not that I think it will make any difference, I just want to see a pic or video of it.

Actually, if you look at the Gemtech Shot Show video you can see exactly how it mounts. GaLEO said the spacer used on their 416 during testing looked exactly like the one on the Gemtech 416 in the video.

snip

I understand how the mount works, I just want to see how it is mounted to the particular 416 in question. I'm just curious about how Silvers mounted the mount with the "spacers" he talked about. And for the third time, just so everyone gets it, I DON"T THINK IT WOULD MAKE ANY DIFFERENCE, I JUST WANT TO SEE IT!

Posted: 6/12/2007 3:52:19 PM EDT

[#7]

How about the Halo? Why doesn't someone do that test as well?

Posted: 6/12/2007 4:36:56 PM EDT

[#8]

What does "fully welded core mean?" They state that it is a "silencer within a silencer."

Perhaps the baffles inside those separate sections are fully welded in? Maybe they never meant that the sections were welded to the outer jacket?

I'm just asking.

They do state that it is repairable without destroying the outer jacket. I'm guessing those inner sections couldn't be welded and aren't supposed to be welded together- they are meant to lock together.

I'm thinking that a "fully welded baffle" is a good thing so gas can't blow by any portion of a baffle around it's 360d circumference. If the baffles inside those sections are fully welded 360d and it's just the sections keyed together, what's the harm?

Posted: 6/12/2007 4:58:31 PM EDT

[#9]

I think that Kevin and Robert are pretty well off already!!! And I think it is rediculous how ya'll scrutinize AAC for helping consumers out by testing out different cans and posting the results so you won't have to buy the cans only to find out that the product is clearly not how it was clearly described by Gemtech at the shot show this year.

Posted: 6/12/2007 5:15:39 PM EDT

[#10]

Quoted:
I think that Kevin and Robert are pretty well off already!!! And I think it is rediculous how ya'll scrutinize AAC for helping consumers out by testing out different cans and posting the results so you won't have to buy the cans only to find out that the product is clearly not how it was clearly described by Gemtech at the shot show this year.

Well, mainly it's because they always seem to want to prove something inferior.

I mean, where are all the results of this test for the various other 223 cans out there?

They don't have any obligation to test stuff, by any means, but the obvious bias of a competitor shouldn't be ignored either. Coupled with the general way they operate (to the point of having a "AR15 Mirror" forum to harp on stuff), it doesn't lend itself to improving my faith in their company much.

Posted: 6/12/2007 5:31:33 PM EDT

[#11]

Quoted:
I think that Kevin and Robert are pretty well off already!!! And I think it is rediculous how ya'll scrutinize AAC for helping consumers out by testing out different cans and posting the results so you won't have to buy the cans only to find out that the product is clearly not how it was clearly described by Gemtech at the shot show this year.

Interesting first post.

Posted: 6/12/2007 5:44:42 PM EDT

[#12]

I hope that someone can open up a G5 and see what's up there soon.

(I know some dealers have a rollpin punch)

I mainly see 2 issues.

1. Gemtech stated that the core was welded. The pics I saw were of individual spacers and baffles with no weld marks. THIS IS AN ISSUE THAT I HOPE GEMTECH WILL ADDRESS.........SOON.

2. I am less concerned about the non welding and much more concerned about the use of roll pins in the construction that leaves holes in the outer tube surrounding the blast chamber. The rollpin holding the inconel insert in place is pretty scary as well.

Of the 2 issues above, I am more concerned with the first issue. I am not yet a Gemtech customer and that will continue if they do not address this. If I were a Gemtech G5 customer, I would be VASTLY more concerned about the second issue.

****ETA: If it really does turn out that ADCO is right about some drunk guy making that can on a Friday afternoon, Gemtech has MUCH bigger issues than the 2 I mentioned earlier.******

Posted: 6/12/2007 5:48:37 PM EDT

[#13]

Quoted:
Actually, my partner and I would be the perfect candiates for this test:

He likes and sells the Gem-TEch cans.
I like and sell the AAC cans.

We both have post sample M-16s and both of us would put a 10.5" upper together for the test.

Now, we just have to get Dr. Dater and Kevin to form 5 an M4-2000 and a G5 to us for testing.

I'll even buy the cases of ammo!

Is your "partner" is that fella up in Spring? If so, I'm 100% behind that test.

Posted: 6/12/2007 5:56:16 PM EDT

[#14]

Quoted:
1. Gemtech stated that the core was welded.

Where did you read Gemtech stated that the core was welded? I'm looking through everything to find that in print from Gemtech.

Posted: 6/12/2007 6:07:29 PM EDT

[#15]

Quoted:

Quoted:
1. Gemtech stated that the core was welded.

Where did you read Gemtech stated that the core was welded? I'm looking through everything to find that in print from Gemtech.

What? A Gemtech employee talking for 10 minutes about the silencer and saying that word for word isn't good enough for you? Go figure.

Posted: 6/12/2007 6:08:38 PM EDT

[#16]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I think that Kevin and Robert are pretty well off already!!! And I think it is rediculous how ya'll scrutinize AAC for helping consumers out by testing out different cans and posting the results so you won't have to buy the cans only to find out that the product is clearly not how it was clearly described by Gemtech at the shot show this year.

Interesting first post.

agreed, STalk lackie.

Posted: 6/12/2007 6:16:03 PM EDT

[#17]

Quoted:

Quoted:
1. Gemtech stated that the core was welded.

Where did you read Gemtech stated that the core was welded? I'm looking through everything to find that in print from Gemtech.

What? A Gemtech employee talking for 10 minutes about the silencer and saying that word for word isn't good enough for you?

No, one unnamed person being asked thousands of questions, buy thousands of people over 1 weekend is not good enough. I believe that was an honest mistake. And no, unsubstantiated rumors of emails to friends cousins from someone at Gemtech dont count either. If Gemtech is the pack of liars everyone here has made them out to be, someone must have something from Gemtech, in printed, advertising text stating that the G5 is fully welded.

Is that youtube video the sole source for all the accusations?

For all who are convinced Gemtech is lying - show me in thier printed text and it will be settled.

Honestly, I ASSumed they were welded myself, but I never read or was told by those I talk to at Gemtech the G5 was fully welded.

Posted: 6/12/2007 6:18:26 PM EDT

[#18]

Quoted:

Quoted:
1. Gemtech stated that the core was welded.

Where did you read Gemtech stated that the core was welded? I'm looking through everything to find that in print from Gemtech.

I heard Kel say the G5 had a welded core while he had a G5 in his hand during a demo of the G5 on video.

Posted: 6/12/2007 6:19:59 PM EDT

[#19]

Quoted:

Quoted:
1. Gemtech stated that the core was welded.

Where did you read Gemtech stated that the core was welded? I'm looking through everything to find that in print from Gemtech.

What? A Gemtech employee talking for 10 minutes about the silencer and saying that word for word isn't good enough for you?

No, one unnamed person being asked thousands of questions, buy thousands of people over 1 weekend is not good enough. I believe that was an honest mistake. And no, unsubstantiated rumors of emails to friends cousins from someone at Gemtech dont count either. If Gemtech is the pack of liars everyone here has made them out to be, someone must have something from Gemtech, in printed, advertising text stating that the G5 is fully welded.

Is that youtube video the sole source for all the accusations?

For all who are convinced Gemtech is lying - show me in thier printed text and it will be settled.

Honestly, I ASSumed they were welded myself, but I never read or was told by those I talk to at Gemtech the G5 was fully welded.

They've stated that publicly to several people, if you think they're false then why don't you give Gemtech a call yourself and see what they say?

Posted: 6/12/2007 6:39:40 PM EDT

[#20]

Quoted:
I got a really long detailed email from Kel last year regarding the construction of the G5. I no longer have the email, but he explained how and why they weld(or dont weld) where and why. I got the impression the emphasis was on the ablity to repair.

I've also seen "weld the stack where it needs it" from Gemtech representatives. The fact is there are no welds anywhere in that stack..............period.

Posted: 6/12/2007 7:30:09 PM EDT

[#21]

I assume that the guy showing off the Gemtech g5 works at Gemtech right? So how are you still not convinced that gemtech is lying? He did say on the clip that the g5 can was welded.

Posted: 6/12/2007 7:54:15 PM EDT

[#22]

Quoted:
I assume that the guy showing off the Gemtech g5 works at Gemtech right? So how are you still not convinced that gemtech is lying? He did say on the clip that the g5 can was welded.

Because he may be a salesman and know as much about the can's internals as the tool at the Porsche dealer trying to sell you a 911. A lot of catch phrases are thrown around willy nilly and unfortunately, you can't always hold companies accountable for them.

Posted: 6/12/2007 7:58:28 PM EDT

[#23]

Quoted:
This thread has nothing to do with AAC outside their sharing of test results which damage a competitor. The issues in this thread are getting the same test done by a neutral party to verify it and if GemTech did mislead people by stating information about the G5 which are not true. I think everything here has been blown out of proportion by individuals on both sides.

What the test proved was a failure outside of normal test conditions, give me any can and I'll get you a failure too. What exactly does that prove? I just want to get info like everyone else and am a bit more conservative when the failure info is coming from AAC.

AAC cans passed the same test. [according to RS]

Posted: 6/12/2007 8:11:42 PM EDT

[#24]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Actually, my partner and I would be the perfect candiates for this test:

He likes and sells the Gem-TEch cans.
I like and sell the AAC cans.

We both have post sample M-16s and both of us would put a 10.5" upper together for the test.

Now, we just have to get Dr. Dater and Kevin to form 5 an M4-2000 and a G5 to us for testing.

I'll even buy the cases of ammo!

Is your "partner" is that fella up in Spring? If so, I'm 100% behind that test.

That's Keith in Spring, NFA_Investments. He would probably be interested in joining us for the test. Slumlord is my partner.

Posted: 6/12/2007 8:14:43 PM EDT

[#25]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I assume that the guy showing off the Gemtech g5 works at Gemtech right? So how are you still not convinced that gemtech is lying? He did say on the clip that the g5 can was welded.

Because he may be a salesman and know as much about the can's internals as the tool at the Porsche dealer trying to sell you a 911. A lot of catch phrases are thrown around willy nilly and unfortunately, you can't always hold companies accountable for them.

He posts under kel here.
Gemtech info

I would hardly say that he is a lowly sales rep.

Posted: 6/12/2007 8:22:34 PM EDT

[#26]

Quoted:
That's Keith in Spring, NFA_Investments. He would probably be interested in joining us for the test. Slumlord is my partner.

I knew you and Keith were friends and thought you might have joined forces with him. Keith is good people. I'd like to see anyone repeat this test, but if Keith was involved I'd have an extra warm fuzzy about it.

Posted: 6/13/2007 12:37:48 AM EDT

[#27]

Did I read in here somewhere that my Surefire actually would have or did pass this test?

Posted: 6/13/2007 3:40:55 AM EDT

[#28]

Quoted:
Did I read in here somewhere that my Surefire actually would have or did pass this test?

Yes. I've seen for myself a SureFire can (and not a new one either; one that had already been run pretty hard) pass this test. This test was requested by a military customer. I know for a fact that the SureFire and AAC cans submitted for T&E to this military customer passed this test repeated times.

Mark

Posted: 6/13/2007 3:49:06 AM EDT

[#29]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Did I read in here somewhere that my Surefire actually would have or did pass this test?

Yes. I've seen for myself a SureFire can (and not a new one either; one that had already been run pretty hard) pass this test. This test was requested by a military customer. I know for a fact that the SureFire and AAC cans submitted for T&E to this military customer passed this test repeated times.

Mark

Do you happen to know what other manufacturers were tested?

Posted: 6/13/2007 4:10:37 AM EDT

[#30]

No sir, I don't. I have heard some rumors, but nothing I consider 100% credible. I do know for a fact AAC and SureFire were in the testing though. I believe this particular customer directly requested sample products from companies and did not make an open invitation to all manufacturers. That is my understanding, but I don't know that to be 100% fact. (i.e. I might be wrong about that.

)

I do know the customer was very impressed with SureFire and AAC products submitted. I know a little more about the testing and contract, but am really not at liberty to say. Sorry.

Best regards,

Mark

Posted: 6/13/2007 5:28:38 AM EDT

[#31]

No problemo, that's how the cookie crumbles in that specific business.

Posted: 6/13/2007 6:43:38 AM EDT

[#32]

.

Posted: 6/13/2007 7:06:08 AM EDT

[#33]

Quoted:

Quoted:
1. Gemtech stated that the core was welded.

Where did you read Gemtech stated that the core was welded? I'm looking through everything to find that in print from Gemtech.

Well, if it's not supposed to be welded then it sure isn't worth $875 retail.

Come on!! Pinned together??

Posted: 6/13/2007 7:18:38 AM EDT

[#34]

.

edit so not to confuse anyone with different tests.

Mark

Posted: 6/13/2007 7:21:16 AM EDT

[#35]

.

Posted: 6/13/2007 11:52:23 AM EDT

[#36]

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1379578571480670832

video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1379578571480670832

Posted: 6/13/2007 11:53:09 AM EDT

[#37]

Here is a link to the test that is being discussed in this thread:

video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1379578571480670832

Posted: 6/13/2007 11:54:02 AM EDT

[#38]

Quoted:
Here is a link to the test that is being discussed in this thread:

[]

Ha ha, beat by 40 seconds! :-p

Posted: 6/13/2007 12:21:48 PM EDT

[#39]

Wait 'till I do my test.

Posted: 6/13/2007 12:26:31 PM EDT

[#40]

Quoted:
Wait 'till I do my test.

Be sure to let us know how many rounds before yours glows bright red. I dont understand that at all. I've seen many suppressors on SBRs shot full auto, having shot way more rounds without turning red. Somethings not right.

Posted: 6/13/2007 12:29:39 PM EDT

[#41]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Wait 'till I do my test.

Be sure to let us know how many rounds before yours glows bright red. I dont understand that at all. I've seen many suppressors on SBRs shot full auto, having shot way more rounds without turning red. Somethings not right.

First thing I noticed too.

Posted: 6/13/2007 12:32:04 PM EDT

[#42]

Quoted:
Be sure to let us know how many rounds before yours glows bright red. I dont understand that at all. I've seen many suppressors on SBRs shot full auto, having shot way more rounds without turning red. Somethings not right.

I've seen videos with glow, though maybe not that much. Still, for me I was wondering more about the recoil in the video. :)

Posted: 6/13/2007 12:33:20 PM EDT

[#43]

Quoted:
Wait 'till I do my test.

Please remember to tape it wearing big pink gloves with Queen playing in the background.

(Somebody's got to get this reference.)

Posted: 6/13/2007 12:35:21 PM EDT

[#44]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Wait 'till I do my test.

Be sure to let us know how many rounds before yours glows bright red. I dont understand that at all. I've seen many suppressors on SBRs shot full auto, having shot way more rounds without turning red. Somethings not right.

It doesn't take that much. I did it in semi shooting 5 rounds at a time. It helps if you are under cover or inside.

Posted: 6/13/2007 12:42:55 PM EDT

[#45]

Quoted:
I've seen videos with glow, though maybe not that much. Still, for me I was wondering more about the recoil in the video. :)

I think it was that guys first time with an AR based weapon that wasn't airsoft. Bad form all over; slapping the mag, no knowledge of immediate action drills, and hip shooting.

Posted: 6/13/2007 12:57:27 PM EDT

[#46]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I've seen videos with glow, though maybe not that much. Still, for me I was wondering more about the recoil in the video. :)

I think it was that guys first time with an AR based weapon that wasn't airsoft. Bad form all over; slapping the mag, no knowledge of immediate action drills, and hip shooting.

Maybe he was just camera shy?

Posted: 6/13/2007 1:01:56 PM EDT

[#47]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I've seen videos with glow, though maybe not that much. Still, for me I was wondering more about the recoil in the video. :)

I think it was that guys first time with an AR based weapon that wasn't airsoft. Bad form all over; slapping the mag, no knowledge of immediate action drills, and hip shooting.

Yeah, maybe slapping the mag knocked that roll pin out of there

. Not sure what this has to do with anything relevant to the can failing. If anything, him taking awhile to clear it, load, etc. should have helped the can.

Posted: 6/13/2007 1:05:06 PM EDT

[#48]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I've seen videos with glow, though maybe not that much. Still, for me I was wondering more about the recoil in the video. :)

I think it was that guys first time with an AR based weapon that wasn't airsoft. Bad form all over; slapping the mag, no knowledge of immediate action drills, and hip shooting.

Maybe he was just camera shy?

No. He just plain didn't have good form, or trigger discipline either.
At least he wasn't wearing big dorky oven mitts.

Posted: 6/13/2007 1:06:31 PM EDT

[#49]

After seeing that...The whole thing is suspect.

Production value of a high-school prank. Who knows what they did to that suppressor before the "test"

Posted: 6/13/2007 1:09:13 PM EDT

[#50]

Quoted:
No. He just plain didn't have good form, or trigger discipline either.
At least he wasn't wearing big dorky oven mitts.

No clue, they seemed to be blasting a sightless gun at a wall in order to test the silencer. I doubt they were going for super stringent conditions or anything. The guy shooting (GALEO I believe) is known to some, so I'd assume some level of training.

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - G5 Failure... so says AAC (Page 4 of 9)

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