I'm mainly looking to fill the role the MP7 does (small PDW) rather than get a gun that looks like one.
Yes, I want a MP7 but HK will never bring one to the US market (plus the price of the gun, ammo and mags would be ridiculous)
However there are a lot of pistol caliber carbines coming to on already on the market.
I want the functionality of a MP7 however the looks don't need to be identical.
I want a reliable pistol caliber carbine that can fit under a jacket (~16" in a collapsed form) lightweight, and able to be fired easily with one hand. Also it must have bolt lock. I know it doesn't bother some but its a must for me.

The following are somethings I'm not fond of on the platform. This doesn't necessarily mean that I wouldn't own them because of these features.

TP9: Too expensive, and I've heard some bad things about the odd rotating barrel design. I've also heard they are not capable of being suppressed without a specialized suppressor. Although if this were these quirks were to be improved or fixed this would be #1

MPX(-K): This seems like it may be a good choice but their "K" model is still unobtainium. This are still quite expensive however not as expensive as the TP9. This would probably be 2nd on my list.

Scorpion Evo: A little big and heavy, but the price is right and could be a viable option. This would probably be tied for 2nd.  

PS90: No bolt lock, and a little on the expensive side

Kriss Vector: Pretty cool, but it has some strange ergos that I'm not digging too much.

Glock with something like a CAA stock: Seems too mall ninja.

AR-9mm Build: Some people have said that they can be finicky due to various buffer weights. This might be hard to make it run well.

Masterpiece Arms Defender: No.

Kel-tec rmr-30: Certainly looks like a MP7 but I'm not sure about the reliability of it being rim fire.

If they are any more that I may have missed or any guns that may be coming to makret please feel free to let me know.

Given my criticisms of each platform which direction would you steer me in? What platform should I look into buying?

Thanks guys!

SPP9 can be had for under $1k, can be shot one handed and has a bolt lock. Mags are available but as far as suppressor you may be SOL.

I actually had one of these offered to be for a pretty good price. However I heard there was no way to attach a stock and heard they weren't all that great guns.

Kel tec CMR 30?

" />

Isn't Keltec rolling out a carbine to pair with pmr30?

Looks like an MP7 with a long barrel.

I don't think it has a last round hold open. Plus kel-tec.

I'm leaning toward a MPX just because I can configure it to be nice and tiny (that's what she said). But the Evo is so cheap its hard to not consider this.

Mine has a last round hold open.

Eta:  To your main question how about a FN57 in a Kpos conversion?  Obviously would need a form 1.
The only reason I thought of that is I saw the new Bond movie awhile back and they used the Conversion chassis in that movie which surprised me.

I suppose I was wrong then. How's it run?

No range report yet.  It sat around waiting for my form 1 for awhile and now I just need to find some time to go out.

How about this, from the following which would be the closest to a MP7.

MPX,
Scorpion Evo
Picky 9mm AR build.

I have one and it is a very accurate, reliable firearm. Centerfire systems has the stock right now for it.

Once my 9mm AR build broke in it has run like a top. 5" and 8" uppers using a standard carbine spring, slash 9QT buffer, cmmg bolt and CMC trigger. Have really grown to love them. Suppresses great.  CZ scorpion has been good too but need to find a 922r kit in stock.

step 1 buy evo
step 2 remove handguard
step 3 cut barrel to 3 inches and thread 1/2X28
step 4 ....
step 5 profit?

would be just as compact as the mpx-k and would still come out a lot cheaper. plus you get that whole, better for suppressed use benefit.

Good point, however would the handguard still attach to it? Would it still run reliably? Great idea, I just don't want to be the first one to do it

Ar57 upper with lwrc compact stock.

it works just fine, but you won't be able to attach the handguard and will need to hold on to the magazine instead or be inventive and come up with something else.

everything has been done by somebody


given the length of the barrel, it still looks kind of cool with a suppressor on it

The answer is UZI

I'd say an SBR PS90.

TP9 has my vote.  9 mm is a viable caliber, and my B&T has been rock star solid.  can't wait for my ATF form 1 to be completed.  I've read up on the suppressor challenges - I think you'd end up with a dedicated B&T unit - they are expensive...

I really like my CZ Scorpion SBR, it is an absolute joy to shoot.  good caliber, feels very solid, absolutely reliable, and a bargain.  (I'm in about $1400 for the pistol, stock/922 kit, SBR stamp, and a big  box 'o' of mags).  but, it feels very different than a TP9, (which I imagine feels very much like a MP7).  if feels like a little carbine vs. a big pistol.

I sorta miss my PS90.  I loved everything about that rifle except the ammo.  it is expensive, sorta hard to find, cannot be reloaded (at least not with the ease of a more traditional caliber), and has dubious effectiveness vs 9 mm/45 acp/10 mm.

if H&K offered up the MP7 in the US I'd be in line today, even with another oddball ammo choice, but I don't think that'll happen unless the German government does an about face on that firearm.

What about the MP7's predecessor, the MP5k in the form of a Zenith Z-5P pistol...


Just add a Choate folder and viola...


Unfortunately no bolt lock.

I've never fired an MP7 so I'm not sure what's most like it, but I do own the first 5 guns on your list (plus a 9mm ar). I would say the ps90 is closest in terms of firing a PDW cartridge, but that's about where the similarities stop. I would think you need a compact setup with the magazine in the grip like an UZI pro or better yet an M11/9 with a lage mk2 max-11K upper since it will have full auto like an mp7.

I think this thread might fall into a logical fallacy of "miswanting". I'll explain....

Does OP want the closest thing to an MP7 because of a real reason they want one - or is it the draw of the unobtainium / chasing that white whale / that it says HK on it? I was very surprised the first time I held an MP7, at how large it was. You get this this idea that it's a tiny device, but it's not. It's a pretty big gun really, it's like the same surprise when holding a UMP for the first time, it's bigger than it seems. See image:



The MP7 is P90 sized. Extend the stock and it might actually be larger. Put a real magazine in the MP7 and it is larger definitely. The literal closest gun you can get to an MP7 is a P90 SBR. It's close in caliber, it's close in effect, might be smaller in overall effective size, it's rare, it's expensive for what it is, it works in a slightly goofy way. They're extremely similar.

Now.... Why isn't everyone rocking P90 SBRs? As a fun gun, yea, they're pretty cool! Really innovative and whatever. Practically speaking, in semi-auto, without the AP ammo, they're pretty much just toys for civilians.

So.... Does OP -actually- want a gun to look cool in picture threads? Or want a small gun that's practical for civilians, a small home defense gun, or something that can be stored in a space not much larger than a pistol but can be employed more effectively, or something to take to a shoot house class and really learn what they are doing with it? I can't say.

But as to the thread.... It's a P90. Me personally, I wouldn't go with anything but a 9mm, for as small as possible suppressed because objectively that's what makes the most sense for ME and what I've established I want because of that. I also theorize that if HK did release a civilian MP7, it would hurt their brand reputation overall. People don't give props to FN for the P90, it would be the same. HK benefits from keeping the MP7 as a magic unicorn.

MPA930sst or UZI pro are as small a sub gun as you will find.

In what situation would you use full auto for practical reasons?

Or perhaps the MPA570SST, which is chambered in 5.7. It can be had as a carbine or SBR. Or even a pistol.

My buddy just got a CMR-30 from KT on their LE program.  He will pick it up this evening.

I am waiting anxiously to see how it runs.  

It seems like a great option if it runs well.

The same reasons that the MP7 and P90 even exist. Low recoiling, AP rounds with a target that may be armored.

People act like the 556 vs the 5.7 is even a remotely accurate comparison but it's not. It's 2 556 rounds compared to 8-12 5.7 rounds that take the same amount of skill and time to project.

For civilians it's a non-discussion. For the real purchasers of PDW guns, it's a legit consideration. That's why I feel PDWs are silly for most civilians, just toys.

The glock carbine bond had in spectre was really tiny.  At first I was like "ew gross, mall ninja!"....  but i don't see things getting much smaller. And you could use any choice of caliber.

How about a an AR platform, that takes glock mags, chambered in TCM22r ? :)

If I wasn't waiting for a stamp for my SP89 that would be my vote.

Link to that kit one would use after getting an approved form 1?

My vote goes to the UZI Pro Pistol SBR'd.  I have quite a few SBR's and this is by far the smallest in a sub gun caliber that is very accurate and easy to hide in a very small pack or shoulder bag.  With the stock folder it isn't much longer then a 32 round mag or the suppressor itself.  Length 9" with stock folded.  With stock extended it is still 1/4" shorter then my VZ61 Skorpion.

JMHO

Again... I'm really not getting it... OP asks about closest thing to a civilian MP7, and you guys come up with "small" things... But the MP7 is not particularly small. It's actually kinda big. If you've never held one, it's bigger than you think it is. Straight up answer a P90.

But OP doesn't know what OP wants, because "it should fit under a jacket"... I think this has taken a turn into far into fantasy land for me personally. I'd be all for if if we were talking actual use like at a class or something.

Because if we're just talking wants to look cool - that adds a list of guns I wouldn't consider for reliability and logisitcal reasons, like the glock carbine above. Looks cool, but actually makes way more sense for Europeans without an NFA than it does someone in the US.

This. I said in the OP I don't care for a gun that looks like the MP7. I'm looking to fill the role a MP7 provides. I want a gun that I can fit under a jacket. One that's maneuverable inside my tiny suburb home.
I like the PS90 a lot. Regardless of AP or full auto, I dig the gun. BUT it has no last round hold open. Say what you will but there's a reason why most modern rifles and PDW's are designed this way.  
Please guys, don't let this become a bolt lock debate thread.

I put that requirement because most would recommend 10.5 ARs. I'm looking to something to bridge the gap between a Short Carbine (such as a 10.5 AR) and a pistol.  

Looks really sweet, but bolt lock?

I would go VZ61.

TCM22r in glock mags is about as close to the MP7 as you'll get.

The Uzi dosn't lock open on last round, the same can be said about the mac10 style guns made by masterpiece arms. All that was posted was true in some way or another. However the extar 9mm and extar 556 are in the requirements that you set forth. The other thing I would say is look at the optimus stock to add to your pdw search. But if the lock back was one required part you can flex on you have a tone of options.

With all this being said I own a scorpion evo and I can hide it under a jacket and I have had a mpa 57sst witch was cool but at the time I couldn't get mags and it went off to a good home to some one with more cash for fn mags. The mpa 57sst was a bit chunky but I liked it and it was much smaller than the evo and more concealable with the ability to add a reddot. Knowing what I know now I would have added a sling reddot and a canted light mount off the top. And I would extend that same thinking to the other mpa guns especially the dmg series.

Thanks guys. I really like small compact guns. I have a few AR lowers on Form 1 but I was exploring what else I could SBR in the "PDW" sense. As for the requirements I talked about these are mainly just things that make me like a gun. I've had guns like the Kel-Tec Sub 2000 that was really cool, but after about a year it was just "mehh".

I think I may take this idea if a few directions.
Some have mentioned full auto being a must for a PDW. To be honest I don't have much experience in this realm. However the closest thing to full auto that I could get right now is one of the ECHO triggers. The BFS is also an option but MAC's video had way too may hammer follows for me to have any interest in this. I think Fostech had mentioned something on their FB page about no hammer follow.

1. 9mm AR build. I got some parts incoming for a tiny AR that should work out to be around 18" with the stock collapsed when finished. This is just with a standard stock. This will be small compact and able to accept an ECHO trigger. This may or may not be able to be handled with one hand. But it was so cheap it was hard to pass up building this. Worked out to be under $600 with a few mags.

2. Scorpion Evo. This gun with a folded stock is about the same size and weight of a MP7 which makes it a great candidate. As others have said the mags are available and cheap which is a HUGE plus. Again the forward magazine and heavy bolt may not allow this to be handled with one hand easily. Also the trigger mech is specialized so no chance of a ECHO trigger at this moment. But its still a good candidate. With the popularity of these guns one can start to imagine all the aftermarket parts that may become available. I haven't handled on of these but I'm keeping my eye out for one at a good price.

3.  MPX-K. This is pricey but its super small. At the moment parts are hand to find and magazines are incomprehensibly expensive. Support from Sig is ify but the gun is probably the a great shooter. It is also standard AR15 trigger group so there is possibility of a ECHO trigger.

4. TP9. This is by far the closest to an MP7 on the list but unfortunately last on my list at this point. Weird rotating barrel design (with spotty reviews), super pricey, expensive magazines, proprietary suppressor needed. However if these become popular I see that some of these things might change.

Any other gun at this point simply isn't for me. I'll be keeping my eyes peeled for these guns at a good price.
Thanks for the advice and suggestions guys! I'll be making a thread about my AR build as soon as the parts come in

from what ive seen, all of the ammo out of the ~10.5" barrel will penetrate kevlar. keltec should have made theirs in 5.7x28 instead of .22 mag.

Looking at your ps90 & sbr cmr 30 look awesome. I would buy a cmr-30 in 5.7x28 in pistol form.

It's a funny suggestion at first but it sure fits under a coat and it has a last round BHO, plus folding stock, highly compact, I could go on...

How about the PDW is spawned from

I like the original better.

what vertical grip is that on your CMR?

Its made by LWRCi

[/URL
Without the suppressor it has no problem fitting into a small backpack. It is 24" long with stock unfolded....but .45 is heavy especially with 8, 27rnd. Mags.
It is accurate and will fire hollow points without any problems. Also mags fit into my G21....

OP I think you're all over the place. You're not going to get the functionality of the MP7 without paying the price. The only guns out there on the civy market that do somewhat what that gun does are the P90 and TP9. The P90 covers the armor piercing aspect, the TP9 covers the one handed maneuverability aspect and with +p 124 loads can be somewhat armor piercing.

If you are just looking for a gun that will go under your trench coat, cool probably just better off getting a short AR, but that's not what the MP7 was designed for.


Basically pony up for the TP9 or you ain't getting what you are asking for.



Signed a MPX owner that can tell you first hand this gun is not an MP7 - or even close