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870 deer barrel? Buckshot in a Fully Rifled Barrel? (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 12/15/2004 3:42:16 AM EDT
[Last Edit: mike103][Edited]
| What will happen if buckshot is fired through a fully rifled shotgun barrel?? Like the remmy 870 deer gun?? |
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First, the barrel will lead up badly. Second, the shot is "swirled" around as it moves down the barrel, and when it exits, it tends to spread out in a circular pattern with a large hole in the middle. In other words, instead of having a round pattern with shot scattered throughout it, you often have a "donut" circle with no shot at all in the middle. Rifled shotgun barrels are "purpose" built, specifically intended for shooting sabot slugs and nothing else. If you shoot standard slugs or shot in it, it isn't going to blow up, but it isn't intended for standard shotgun projectiles, won't work very well with them, and will lead up BADLY. |
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For my Rem 11-78 I use a rifle sight smooth bore with choke tubes. It will shoot a good pattern at 40 yards with turkey loads and turkey tube. Change to improved cylinder tube and puts a rifle slug in the bulls eye at 50 yards with no sight change. I have also used it for buck shot with the turkey tube. |
I concur that shooting any buckshot or birdshot load in a rifled barrel creates horrible patterns. However, standard forster and brenneke rifled slugs do quite well in rifled barrels, rifled tubes or standard smooth barrels. I shoot forster slugs,both handloaded and factory,though my Mossberg 500 rifled barrel. They're not usually as accurate as the sabot slugs,but they get the job done and are reasonably accurate. |
I'm not sure why the rifled barrel would "lead up". The pellets should never actually touch the rifling, thats what the pellet cup is for. Unless the cup gets torn apart by the rifling or something, which would also destroy the pattern. I never tried it, but I'm skeptical about the leading up statement, as the cup contains the pellets until it exits the barrel. 
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As the pellet cup contacts the rifling on it's way down the barrel, it startes to fail. Then the lead comes in contact with the rifling leaving little pieces behind. What's happening in the barrel is pretty violent stuff. Your basically taking shrapnel form an explosion containing it and then redirecting it down a narrow corridore. Woe to he who stands at the end of the corridore. 
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Ok since no one is gonna say it...I will! WHY ON EARTH WOULD YOU WANT TO SHOOT BIRDSHOT OUT OF A DEER[SLUG] BARREL? Let me repeat that last part....Deer SLUG Barrel...not Deer birdshot but slug barrel! I gotta sit and ask myself... "does a person that would think about trying to shoot birdshot out of a deer slug barrel really need to be in posession of a firearm?" Geez! |
Perhaps he was not considering it as much as just wondering what if. Then soliciting opinions here. Have you not ever wondered what if? Kind of like Mythbusters? Or perhaps contingency planning. "What if all I had was?" If he asks and gets the answers, he is better prepared than you. Question does not = intent. |
As much as I hate to post in a sticky... I have patterned buckshot extensively (I am not a professional) and come to the conclusion that a rifled barrel fires comparable patterns to a same-length smoothbore with several brands of ammo (we tried Remington, Fiocci, S&B, and Federal). Such a question might arise if you wanted only one barrel that was "all purpose". To me, the accuracy benefit of the rifled slug barrel outwieghs the minimal patterning loss for buckshot. Again, no science here - just a guy who loves to fire shotguns and has done so with glee for many years. Go ahead, ask me about my 200 yard slug gun 
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I don't consider myself an idiot and I've thought of shooting buckshot out of my rifled barrel. My 20" 870 slug barrel has a cantilevered scope mount with a red dot sight and makes my standard 870 look like a pretty good close quarters weapon. Never done it though. Might have to try it now. Edited to add: OK, I broke out the calculator. Here's what I come up with (someone check my math please): The twist of most 12 ga. slug guns is 1/34". 00 buck comes out at about 1200 fps, so the shot cup is revolving at approximately 424 revolutions/second. The diameter of a 12 ga barrel is .729", so the radius is .3645". A OO pellet is .33 inches in diameter or .165" in radius. Therefore, the center of a OO pellet that is pressed against the side of the barrel is (.3645" - .165"=.1995") from the centerline of the bore. Therefore, the radial velocity of the outermost OO pellets is: (424 rev/sec)*(.1995")*2pi = 531 inches per second or 44.3 feet per second. If I shoot a target that is 50 feet away, the pellets will get there in about .0417 seconds. In that time, the radial velocity of the outermost pellet will have caused it to travel (.0417 sec)*(44.3 ft/sec) = 1.845 feet. To summarize, at 50 feet, the outermost pellets in the shot cup will have spread out 1.845 feet up, down, left, and right due only to the radial velocity caused by the rotation imparted by the rifling (i.e., ignoring other factors that cause the shot pattern to spread). That means you can expect a pattern of at least 3.7 feet in diameter at 50 feet. I think a normal pattern at this distance would be about 18". Maybe it's not such a good idea after all. |
First thing, he said BUCK shot, not bird shot. I was wanting to know the same thing. I really dont want to spend $100 for an 18" CQ barrel for my 870 when I have a 20" rifled slug barrel. |
i love this logic. seriously. i dont know the formulas to find this information and i have never shot buckshot out of a rifled barrel but i can easily understand why spinning a shotcup full of BBs will make them spread when they leave the confines of the barrell and shotcup. thank you for the math. |
Is the lead build up worse or better than the lead build up from shooting full bore slugs? |
I don't know but when I bought my Hastings barrel I e-mailed the company and asked if I could use buckshot in it. Here's the response
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Are you crazy? Is that your problem?
I sold one on the EE for 85 bucks recently. There's a market for them. |
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I am making my Remington 870 into a home defense weapon. I just ordered the Pachmayr Vindicator Pistol Grip and Forend set and I plan on using the 20" Deer Barrel w/ Rifle Sights with Improved Cyl. Since it's a smooth bore it should be fine to shoot slugs and/or 00 buck with no problems correct? Joe |
| I picked up a set of the Trijicon tritium replacements for the slug sights. It's given new life to the barrel for me. Y'all might want to try it, Brownell's had 'em pretty cheap. |
"What do you want to do now, Captain?"
"What we always do. Fight 'em until we can't.", CPT Kara Thrace
"What we always do. Fight 'em until we can't.", CPT Kara Thrace
I was looking for one for my 870 Express for informal 3-gun matches. What are looking to trade or price + shipping? Czar |
Besides you, looks like all the experts who say don't do it for either lack of accuracy or lethal leading of the barrel are failing to state they have actually patterned a shot through there slug barrel. Two years and no one has patterned a shot yet besides Allerian? |
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Assuming one just wants to use it for home defense, which is what, maybe 25-feet max distance, I bet it would still do the job. I just today bought a rifled barrel for my 870 and installed it. I too had the thought about the pattern opening up as soon as it left the barrel. Maybe I should just use slugs! If I get a chance I will try to pattern it and report back to all. Birdshot, slugs, and buckshot when I have a chance to. Pav |
I really wish that I could come up with something witty for this.
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So which makes for a more accurate slug shot? A rifled slug barrel, or a smooth bore with a rifled slug?
If I have a tactical 870 with one of the smooth bore barrels on it, could I get away with hunting deer effectively (with a slug) without the need for a rifled barrel? |
When you enter a room full of armed men, shoot the first person who makes a move, hostile or otherwise. He has started to think and is therefore dangerous.
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Ok, not to throw a wrench into something that seems to going well. But... here is is...
WHAT IF... I fired Federal 00 buck with the flitecontrol wad out of a 20 inch rifled slug barrel. Do you guys think that will keep a tighter pattern? These are the LE127 00 rounds, and I bought up about 70 of them in Tucson last time I was up there. One more question. Does anyone know of a marine/nickel plated replacement barrel for an 870? |
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Originally Posted By Davey556:
Ok, not to throw a wrench into something that seems to going well. But... here is is... WHAT IF... I fired Federal 00 buck with the flitecontrol wad out of a 20 inch rifled slug barrel. Do you guys think that will keep a tighter pattern? These are the LE127 00 rounds, and I bought up about 70 of them in Tucson last time I was up there. One more question. Does anyone know of a marine/nickel plated replacement barrel for an 870? According to one poster on this thread, the rifling starts to break up the wad, which exposes it to the rifling. Take that for what it's worth. |
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Originally Posted By Davey556:
Ok, not to throw a wrench into something that seems to going well. But... here is is... WHAT IF... I fired Federal 00 buck with the flitecontrol wad out of a 20 inch rifled slug barrel. Do you guys think that will keep a tighter pattern? These are the LE127 00 rounds, and I bought up about 70 of them in Tucson last time I was up there. One more question. Does anyone know of a marine/nickel plated replacement barrel for an 870? No the wad will keep the buck shot together and start its spin as soon as it is fired, as the wad and shot leaves the barrel the wad will open and be left behind and the buck shot will continue to spin and spread out due to centrifugal force . More open patterns not tighter. At very close range you can shoot it and at moderate ranges pattern will be way opened up. Can't help ypou on the BBL , I'd bet you will need to call Remington on it. |
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Originally Posted By adrock1978:
So which makes for a more accurate slug shot? A rifled slug barrel, or a smooth bore with a rifled slug? If I have a tactical 870 with one of the smooth bore barrels on it, could I get away with hunting deer effectively (with a slug) without the need for a rifled barrel? i have a smooth bore 870 slug barrel, its good with cheapo remington walmart slugs past 125, and will shoot whatever shot, buck, bird i put through it. you really can t go too wrong with a smooth bore slug barrel, and if youre really lucky you can find one that likes cheap slugs. a buddy has a rifled barrrel that chokes on anything that isnt brenneke. that gets expensive. as far as 200 yards goes, i wouldnt know, never tried. |
Well boys, I've answered the question, if you want to see the results. 
Look here: http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot43.htm |
"I hate rude behavior in a man. I won't tolerate it." - Capt. W. F. Call, Texas Ranger
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http://www.theboxotruth.com/
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Originally Posted By neoinarien:
so it is safe to shoot buckshot/birdshot from a smoothbore slug barrel i assume? It is "safe" to shoot buckshot/birdshot from a smoothbore slug barrel. It is also "safe" to shoot them from a rifled slug barrel, but it will ruin your patterns. |
"I hate rude behavior in a man. I won't tolerate it." - Capt. W. F. Call, Texas Ranger
http://www.theboxotruth.com/
http://www.theboxotruth.com/
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Originally Posted By neoinarien:
right, but there is no real difference between the slugged smoothbore vs. an open cylinder with no choke, right? just a shorter barrel? sorry for the questions! That is correct. No choke is needed for slugs, if a smooth bore is used. |
"I hate rude behavior in a man. I won't tolerate it." - Capt. W. F. Call, Texas Ranger
http://www.theboxotruth.com/
http://www.theboxotruth.com/
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Originally Posted By Muerte: What if you shot slugs of a shotgun with the MD choke in it? Modified? With foster style (Rifled) slugs, you will be fine. |
Shooting stuff is fun... And thanks diestone for the avatar
Did you know that we have a shotgun forum? - http://www.ar15.com/forums/forum.html?b=6&f=1
Did you know that we have a shotgun forum? - http://www.ar15.com/forums/forum.html?b=6&f=1
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Originally Posted By Hendricks5150:
Originally Posted By Muerte:
What if you shot slugs of a shotgun with the MD choke in it? Modified? With foster style (Rifled) slugs, you will be fine. I was told that you couldnt and also told that you could? I dont know who to believe, This is my first shothgun |
870 deer barrel? Buckshot in a Fully Rifled Barrel? (Page 1 of 2)
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