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Link Posted: 6/4/2024 5:55:15 PM EDT
[#1]
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Originally Posted By DogtownTom:

I would like to hear ATF's response when you tell them you have the stamps.
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Originally Posted By DogtownTom:
Originally Posted By LAjamil1:


Well, change of plans here.  I just received my approved Form 4's from NFA!  I assume this means I will be able to claim my cans through the asset forfeiture process?  I don't think I am out of the woods yet, but I would assume having my approved forms would mean they can't destroy/discard my property at this point right?

I would like to hear ATF's response when you tell them you have the stamps.


Will 100% follow up here.  Hopefully this never happens to anyone else, but if it does, maybe this thread will give them a bit of hope.  Clearly the ATF didn't understand how this process would go.  I'm hoping they don't push back anymore and now with the stamps in hand, it should be seamless.  I know I am going to have to wait a while though for things to be inventoried and then claimed through asset forfeiture.  Holy shit, what a ride.  

Massive thanks to every single person here for your help, advice, and input throughout this nonsense!!!!
Link Posted: 6/4/2024 6:22:13 PM EDT
[#2]
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Originally Posted By rollpin:
I wonder if there is some way that this stuff could be avoided by having a separate form, or follow on form, or something, where purchase = legal ownership but not possession until Form 4 approved.

That would allow people to simply have it form 3'd to another dealer if something like this happens.
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Devil's advocate, it's still just a civil issue at best, given the approval of the registration documents to the new owner are what transfers ownership.

Say I'm selling you my truck.

We could exchange funds, I give you a bill of sale / receipt, your attorney drafts a sales agreement, I sign the title confirming my intent to transfer ownership to you....but I never give you the title because I'm cuffed and stuffed on the way over to hand it to you.

All you've got is a stack of paperwork confirming all the appropriate steps to transfer ownership have been completed, but you don't have the document confirming ownership. There's not much the regulating body (DMV / Title Clerk) can do, less law enforcement.

It's just a civil contract gone awry in reality.
Link Posted: 6/4/2024 8:37:56 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Luny421] [#3]
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Originally Posted By LAjamil1:


I've filled out both forms from FL senators.  Not sure how much that can really do but I'm all out of options and will try anything at this point.
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If your congressperson is pro-2A they can absolutely be helpful. My former congressman was instrumental in lighting a fire under someone’s ass and getting 4 cans approved that had been in a “pending” black hole for more than 14 months. Idk how helpful senators will be, but it can’t hurt to try.

Moral of the story, be the squeaky wheel. Don’t chalk it up to “oh well, I’m SOL”. You paid for them, you jumped through their hoops. The only reason you don’t have possession of them is due to their regulatory bullshit. Make noise.
Link Posted: 6/4/2024 9:18:59 PM EDT
[#4]
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Originally Posted By Luny421:

If your congressperson is pro-2A they can absolutely be helpful. My former congressman was instrumental in lighting a fire under someone’s ass and getting 4 cans approved that had been in a “pending” black hole for more than 14 months. Idk how helpful senators will be, but it can’t hurt to try.

Moral of the story, be the squeaky wheel. Don’t chalk it up to “oh well, I’m SOL”. You paid for them, you jumped through their hoops. The only reason you don’t have possession of them is due to their regulatory bullshit. Make noise.
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Originally Posted By Luny421:
Originally Posted By LAjamil1:


I've filled out both forms from FL senators.  Not sure how much that can really do but I'm all out of options and will try anything at this point.

If your congressperson is pro-2A they can absolutely be helpful. My former congressman was instrumental in lighting a fire under someone’s ass and getting 4 cans approved that had been in a “pending” black hole for more than 14 months. Idk how helpful senators will be, but it can’t hurt to try.

Moral of the story, be the squeaky wheel. Don’t chalk it up to “oh well, I’m SOL”. You paid for them, you jumped through their hoops. The only reason you don’t have possession of them is due to their regulatory bullshit. Make noise.


Well said. That’s exactly what I did. Now, I don’t have any confirmation as to whether it worked or not, but I just received my approved forms. Coincidence? Who knows, but it’s certainly a step in the right direction.

Now to deal with ATF and the asset forfeiture team. Who knows if they’ll even get notice that they’ve been approved!
Link Posted: 6/6/2024 12:42:56 PM EDT
[#5]
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Originally Posted By LAjamil1:

Who knows if they’ll even get notice that they’ve been approved!
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I doubt they would. They are not in the chain of communication.

You will have to inform them that you have approved Form 4s for the items in their possession.


Link Posted: 6/7/2024 7:06:17 AM EDT
[Last Edit: nhill] [#6]
What sucks the most is that the only reason they were “pending” at the time of the forfeiture is because their own process sucks so bad they can’t do it in a timely fashion.

Hopefully you have the cans in hand in short order
Link Posted: 6/7/2024 2:43:58 PM EDT
[#7]
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Originally Posted By nhill:
What sucks the most is that the only reason they were “pending” at the time of the forfeiture is because their own process sucks so bad they can’t do it in a timely fashion.

Hopefully you have the cans in hand in short order
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Appreciate it man.  Yep, I can't fault only ATF though.  They're definitely complicit in this ass-backwards process, but the FFL closing doors without talking to ATF to expedite/transfer the cans is definitely messed up too.

Maybe next time they'll get some liability insurance before letting their dog out....
Link Posted: 6/7/2024 2:45:17 PM EDT
[#8]
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Originally Posted By dmk0210:
I doubt they would. They are not in the chain of communication.

You will have to inform them that you have approved Form 4s for the items in their possession.


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Originally Posted By dmk0210:
Originally Posted By LAjamil1:

Who knows if they’ll even get notice that they’ve been approved!
I doubt they would. They are not in the chain of communication.

You will have to inform them that you have approved Form 4s for the items in their possession.




I did, I spoke to the IOI and let him know.  Not going to stop me from calling relentlessly to make SURE they are aware.

The lack of communication amongst agencies truly blows my mind.
Link Posted: 6/7/2024 3:24:49 PM EDT
[#9]
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Originally Posted By LAjamil1:

The lack of communication amongst agencies truly blows my mind.
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Absolutely. When you are dealing with the govt at any level, the right hand has no idea what the left hand is doing.
Link Posted: 6/8/2024 8:50:10 AM EDT
[#10]
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Originally Posted By Missilegeek:


This. Start with the website for your local district court. Read all the self help stuff. Give them a call and if possible go down there and meet the people who would be processing your paperwork.

Step 1. Understand the process for initiating a lawsuit
Step 2. Draft a simple lawsuit.
Step 3. Properly serve the lawsuit to the atf

They will have to respond, or they automatically lose. My guess is rather than deal with it and the legal fees, they will figure out a way to get it done and just give you your stuff.
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From what I have seen almost nobody at the ATF cares what a lawsuit cost.  They have the backing of the Justice department and your tax dollars. If it is cost effective does not matter because of an unlimited taxpayer funded budget. They do hate losing .
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