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USA
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Posted: 1/15/2024 5:58:08 AM EST
[#1]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Missilegeek: Is there any historical precedent of takesies backsies on form 1's once they've been given out? I haven’t seen it… |
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Posted: 1/15/2024 8:52:56 AM EST
[#2]
That’s what I’ve been saying. Once you have the approved form 1, it’s done.
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NV, USA
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Posted: 1/15/2024 9:06:01 AM EST
[#3]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 3-gun: That’s what I’ve been saying. Once you have the approved form 1, it’s done. FreeBR has conditions attached to it. Oddly the outcome of the final rule saying pistol braces make the gun a short barreled rifle. No stamps were ever given out for the freeBR. so it is a messy situation. If they’re smart they’ll lose and hand out free stamps to the few thousand people who applied. |
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MP, USA
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Posted: 1/15/2024 10:14:11 AM EST
[#4]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 3-gun: That’s what I’ve been saying. Once you have the approved form 1, it’s done. Agreed. The conditional approval is also seen on pre-86 dealer samples and post-86 dealer samples. As mentioned, the conditional approval gives explanation for the lack of a paid tax stamp. |
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USA
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Posted: 1/15/2024 11:48:29 AM EST
[#5]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By durtychemist: If they’re smart they’ll lose and hand out free stamps to the few thousand people who applied. Why do people get so hung up on stamps? IT DOESN’T MATTER! Your approved Form 1 shows proof of registration. The conditions are why the tax was waved. As mentioned, when those semi-auto shotguns were magically turned into DDs, no stamps were issued. What makes these Form 1s any different? SBRs on NFA registry. |
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Posted: 1/15/2024 12:44:53 PM EST
[#6]
People forget, when you leave your nfa items to a family member after you die, they don’t get a stamp either.
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Posted: 1/15/2024 12:50:39 PM EST
[#7]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 3-gun: People forget, when you leave your nfa items to a family member after you die, they don’t get a stamp either. People think the stamp is the approval, it's not, that's the form. The stamp is a subsection that shows you paid the applicable tax. Which was waived in this instance. |
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Posted: 1/15/2024 3:30:31 PM EST
[#8]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Missilegeek: People think the stamp is the approval, it's not, that's the form. The stamp is a subsection that shows you paid the applicable tax. Which was waived in this instance. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Missilegeek: Originally Posted By 3-gun: People forget, when you leave your nfa items to a family member after you die, they don’t get a stamp either. People think the stamp is the approval, it's not, that's the form. The stamp is a subsection that shows you paid the applicable tax. Which was waived in this instance. There is technically no stamp with e file either. An image of one I guess. |
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Posted: 1/15/2024 3:37:26 PM EST
[Last Edit: KitBuilder]
[#9]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Screwball: Why do people get so hung up on stamps? IT DOESN'T MATTER! Your approved Form 1 shows proof of registration. The conditions are why the tax was waved. "You got a stamp for that?" "I'm a stamp collector. Checkout my 2-stamp Tuesday combo." "Don't worry, we've got stamps for all this." Nobody really ever calls it "registration". It's kind of the NFA equivalent of calling every magazine a clip, I guess, except usually they really do have a stamp. 
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Posted: 1/15/2024 3:42:20 PM EST
[Last Edit: BM1455]
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By durtychemist: FreeBR has conditions attached to it. Oddly the outcome of the final rule saying pistol braces make the gun a short barreled rifle. No stamps were ever given out for the freeBR. so it is a messy situation. If they’re smart they’ll lose and hand out free stamps to the few thousand people who applied. But yet we went through the same process as a stamp because the government told us we needed to, so fixing it in our favor is their problem no matter what the courts say about their rule. |
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IL, USA
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Posted: 1/15/2024 11:24:10 PM EST
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Missilegeek: Yeah it seems the ATF published a rule and issued form 1's. The forms are current and valid. To positively change or revoke that, it seems they would have to individually contact and legally serve notice to every person about every item. Otherwise you could just keep your signed form and ignore them. Is there any historical precedent of takesies backsies on form 1's once they've been given out? What would be so hard about contacting everyone that has FreeBR'd? They have your physical and email address. As for historical precedent, no. But has the ATF offered a Forbearance (not an amnesty) before? Has the ATF ever created a rule they tried to treat like law, only to have that rule (potentially) found illegal AND unconstitutional? The ONLY reason they offered FreeBR's is because of the rule they created. I have no clue how what they will do with this cluster fudge they created, neither does anyone else. |
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Posted: 1/15/2024 11:43:04 PM EST
[#12]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By panthermark: What would be so hard about contacting everyone that has FreeBR'd? They have your physical and email address. As for historical precedent, no. But has the ATF offered a Forbearance (not an amnesty) before? Has the ATF ever created a rule they tried to treat like law, only to have that rule (potentially) found illegal AND unconstitutional? The ONLY reason they offered FreeBR's is because of the rule they created. I have no clue how what they will do with this cluster fudge they created, neither does anyone else. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By panthermark: Originally Posted By Missilegeek: Yeah it seems the ATF published a rule and issued form 1's. The forms are current and valid. To positively change or revoke that, it seems they would have to individually contact and legally serve notice to every person about every item. Otherwise you could just keep your signed form and ignore them. Is there any historical precedent of takesies backsies on form 1's once they've been given out? What would be so hard about contacting everyone that has FreeBR'd? They have your physical and email address. As for historical precedent, no. But has the ATF offered a Forbearance (not an amnesty) before? Has the ATF ever created a rule they tried to treat like law, only to have that rule (potentially) found illegal AND unconstitutional? The ONLY reason they offered FreeBR's is because of the rule they created. I have no clue how what they will do with this cluster fudge they created, neither does anyone else. Ask debt collectors how easy it is to track down and contact/serve people you have the address for. And they are way more competent than the atf. People move, want to be left alone, don't answer the door... Email is usually not acceptable as legally served notice. |
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USA
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Posted: 1/15/2024 11:47:38 PM EST
[#13]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By panthermark: But has the ATF offered a Forbearance (not an amnesty) before? I don't know what word you want to use, but legally owned semi-auto shotguns were found to be DD at one point... which ATF had the owners do a similar Form 1 (paper, as the eForms were not a thing), making them DDs. Original markings were kept, no stamp/tax collected. |
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IL, USA
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Posted: 1/16/2024 9:13:04 AM EST
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Missilegeek: Ask debt collectors how easy it is to track down and contact/serve people you have the address for. And they are way more competent than the atf. People move, want to be left alone, don't answer the door... Email is usually not acceptable as legally served notice. When you found out your braced pistol was actually an illegal SBR, did the ATF knock on your door to serve you notice? When I found out my originally legal braced pistol turned illegal SBR is now a legal braced pistol, no one knocked on my door to update me. |
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IL, USA
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Posted: 1/16/2024 9:23:42 AM EST
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Screwball: I don't know what word you want to use, but legally owned semi-auto shotguns were found to be DD at one point... which ATF had the owners do a similar Form 1 (paper, as the eForms were not a thing), making them DDs. Original markings were kept, no stamp/tax collected. Forbearance is the word repeatedly used in the this rule. As for the Streetsweepers, the big difference here is that this went to court, and the ATF is currently losing. Again, I have no clue as to what will happen, especially if/when the rule is found both illegal (procedural) and unconstitutional. Seems like it could easily go either way. |
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PA, USA
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Posted: 1/17/2024 2:35:26 AM EST
[Last Edit: EDL]
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Screwball: That’s not how it works… But since you clearly have a law degree with extensive background in Federal firearms law… how about you show us code, regulation or even case law that supports your claim. https://i.imgur.com/TBU0K8q.jpeg Like §479.62, which clearly states that if an approval comes back tax exempt… an explanation why is attached to the Form 1. Also note that it is mentioned about the $200 tax/stamp being affixed, it starts with “if the making is taxable.” https://i.imgur.com/wVnbKdJ.jpeg Or §479.71, which clearly says that proof of registration is the approved Form 1. Doesn’t say a word about stamp, being not all approvals result in stamps being issued. So, instead of telling us how “right” you are… how about you prove it. Chill out dude. Everything is my fucking opinion at this point because we've never been down this path before. What yu posted is the rules as they pertain to the process prior to this forbearance/amnesty thing, which doesn't exactly follow those rules. Nothing is going to be "proved" until it's over. You're no more a lawyer than I am and if my opinion bothers you so much, then scroll the fuck on by. Patiently waiting for the final outcome, but to be sure IF we're required to reconfig back to pistol, I'll be the first to tell you "told you so." If not, then fucking great. I'll have a free non-engraved SBR. |
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USA
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Posted: 1/17/2024 9:12:31 AM EST
[Last Edit: prebans]
[#17]
After additional review, more BS removed by prebans
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PA, USA
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Posted: 1/17/2024 5:22:46 PM EST
[Last Edit: prebans]
[#18]
BS removed by prebans
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Posted: 1/17/2024 11:13:45 PM EST
[#19]
This is a technical forum, not GD. Disagreement on issues is fine. Being disagreeable with each other is not.
Knock it off. |
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VA, USA
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Posted: 1/20/2024 11:28:23 PM EST
[#20]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By JoshNC: They absolutely will. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By JoshNC: Originally Posted By Polycop: Hummmmm, an imported SP5, form 1 papered with HK as the manufacturer and no 922R parts with no engraving. I'm guessing those guns are going to be worth some loot in the future. Maybe.... They absolutely will. Help me understand, why would the example sp5 be worth more than a standard one in the future? |
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Posted: 1/21/2024 8:23:36 AM EST
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By richiecotite: Help me understand, why would the example sp5 be worth more than a standard one in the future? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By richiecotite: Originally Posted By JoshNC: Originally Posted By Polycop: Hummmmm, an imported SP5, form 1 papered with HK as the manufacturer and no 922R parts with no engraving. I'm guessing those guns are going to be worth some loot in the future. Maybe.... They absolutely will. Help me understand, why would the example sp5 be worth more than a standard one in the future? |
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Posted: 1/21/2024 8:37:30 AM EST
[Last Edit: lazyengineer]
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By STJ: No makers mark engraved on the receiver. So when formed 4 to the new owner it will only have the original HK markings. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By STJ: Originally Posted By richiecotite: Originally Posted By JoshNC: Originally Posted By Polycop: Hummmmm, an imported SP5, form 1 papered with HK as the manufacturer and no 922R parts with no engraving. I'm guessing those guns are going to be worth some loot in the future. Maybe.... They absolutely will. Help me understand, why would the example sp5 be worth more than a standard one in the future? How does that work when transfered later?- does the new owner still have to engrave? I think the answer is no, since it's about who "made" it, not who owns it. Curious if the "with conditions" line transfers to the new owners papers. |
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Posted: 1/21/2024 10:46:52 AM EST
[Last Edit: 3-gun]
[#23]
The with conditions remarks were the lack of tax, 922r. If it transfers under a form 4 a tax will be paid and no remarks are needed.
I believe some members here already did the freebr then transferred to a trust by form 4. |
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Posted: 1/21/2024 11:24:42 AM EST
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By lazyengineer: How does that work when transfered later?- does the new owner still have to engrave? |
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Posted: 2/7/2024 12:39:57 PM EST
[#25]
I'm not sure if this has been posted here but I sent in two of these "special" form 1's separated by a few days. The first one was approved after several months, but still crickets on the second.
I called the NFA Branch last week and they told me that all pending "special" form 1's are pending resolution of current court cases. |
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UKR
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Posted: 2/8/2024 6:31:49 AM EST
[#26]
A friend of mine just received his braced form 1 back that he did in May.
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Posted: 2/10/2024 10:23:38 PM EST
[Last Edit: kokopelli]
[#27]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AZ_Raptor: A friend of mine just received his braced form 1 back that he did in May. Like, within the last couple of days, like, or…? My Feb. 4 submission is still pending, and I’ve had another paid SBR and an SBS approved since then. |
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Posted: 2/10/2024 10:40:29 PM EST
[#28]
I haven’t see anyone get an approval since the injunction was issued.
People have called atf and were told they are on hold. Maybe someone picked up from the wrong pile. |
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UKR
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Posted: 2/11/2024 9:07:44 AM EST
[Last Edit: AZ_Raptor]
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By kokopelli: Like, within the last couple of days, like, or…? My Feb1 submission is still pending, and I’ve had another paid SBR and an SBS approved since then. Submitted the last week of May. Approved the first week of February. |
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Posted: 2/11/2024 8:46:16 PM EST
[#30]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AZ_Raptor: Submitted the last week of May. Approved the first week of February. Dang. I guess they're back at it? |
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Posted: 3/14/2024 11:42:56 AM EST
[#31]
Anyone else get an approval on an amnesty Form 1 lately?
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GA, USA
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Posted: 3/19/2024 8:15:30 AM EST
[#32]
Nope. I had to submit my form 1 on paper last June as I had a naming issue on my eform and it wasn’t sent back until after the amnesty period ended. It was received the third week of June and haven’t had any movement on it.
I have called once and they confirmed receipt and that it is pending, but I have zero visibility in when or if it gets approved until it comes in the mail. Let’s hope they started approving them again. This is the first I had heard since the injunction started. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TripleJ: Anyone else get an approval on an amnesty Form 1 lately? |
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Posted: 3/19/2024 10:20:05 AM EST
[#33]
I had a similar scenario where I had to resubmit in paper after the period had ended. Still hoping that it will be approved.
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OH, USA
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Posted: 3/20/2024 10:13:17 PM EST
[#34]
my third and final free brace sbr (which was denied back on 09/01/23 because I forgot to digitally sign it) that I mailed corrections on (09/07/23) was approved 11/06/23 and arrived via snail mail yesterday.
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GA, USA
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Posted: 3/21/2024 4:43:42 PM EST
[#35]
Approved in November and just arrived in the mail four months later? What is up with that? Is your mail screwed up or did it take them that long to mail it?
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PA, USA
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Posted: 3/25/2024 11:03:34 PM EST
[#36]
Huh, weird, I got my freeBR approval via email.
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Posted: 3/26/2024 12:47:51 AM EST
[#37]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TripleJ: I had a similar scenario where I had to resubmit in paper after the period had ended. Still hoping that it will be approved. Same here |
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Posted: 3/26/2024 8:17:11 AM EST
[#38]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By EDL: Huh, weird, I got my freeBR approval via email. |
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PA, USA
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Posted: 3/29/2024 10:52:51 PM EST
[#39]
Got'cha, makes sense I guess.
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NV, USA
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Posted: 3/31/2024 7:47:25 AM EST
[#40]
YouTube told me there was a court decision and the atf was told they were wrong. Things are going to get odd with these free short barreled rifles no longer being rifles.
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Posted: 4/4/2024 12:29:13 PM EST
[#41]
I have several lowers built from scratch, is it too late to register them as pistols and get a "free" stamp? I read through the first page and am still a little confused.
Sounds like 1/30/24 was the deadline but it might actually be 4/30/24 |
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OH, USA
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Posted: 4/4/2024 12:48:40 PM EST
[#42]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By djkest: is it too late to register them as pistols and get a "free" stamp? Yes |
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Posted: 4/4/2024 4:10:44 PM EST
[#43]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By djkest: I have several lowers built from scratch, is it too late to register them as pistols and get a "free" stamp? I read through the first page and am still a little confused. Sounds like 1/30/24 was the deadline but it might actually be 4/30/24 Deadline was May of last year. |
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Posted: 4/4/2024 4:59:16 PM EST
[#44]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By crazyelece: Yes Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By crazyelece: Originally Posted By djkest: is it too late to register them as pistols and get a "free" stamp? Yes If you don’t have a form 1 by now, you’re probably going to have to pay $200 to get one. |
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MD, USA
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Posted: 4/5/2024 1:38:51 PM EST
[#45]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Screwball: Why do people get so hung up on stamps? IT DOESN’T MATTER! Your approved Form 1 shows proof of registration. The conditions are why the tax was waved. As mentioned, when those semi-auto shotguns were magically turned into DDs, no stamps were issued. What makes these Form 1s any different? SBRs on NFA registry. People love to argue, this post is exactly right. Stop speculating, it's a waste of time and pages in this thread. |
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IN, USA
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Posted: 6/9/2024 7:15:05 PM EST
[#46]
Wondering what will come of this? Will all pending submissions eventually be denied, dissappear in a system outage or will the ATF be forced to somehow address the issue?
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UT, USA
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Posted: 6/15/2024 1:04:37 PM EST
[#47]
My eForm 1 submitted in May is still "in-progress." My assumption is it will stay that way for years until the litigation is settled, then I'll have to resubmit with $200
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FL, USA
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Posted: 6/17/2024 12:13:05 PM EST
[#48]
Same here. Two "in-progress". They can sit there soaking up gov't resources as far as I am concerned.
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Posted: 6/17/2024 1:01:41 PM EST
[#49]
I'm thinking everyone left in the que won't get their paperwork approved.
ATF may start over with a new regulation in a few months/years. |
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Posted: 6/17/2024 1:36:11 PM EST
[#50]
I agree, if you have an approved form 1 it’s done, but I don’t think they can or will approve what is pending.
But who knows about the fatf. I’m sure they will try again but the problem is the long paper trail they have from prior approvals. |
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