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I got mine. They need to reinforce their shipping tubes with packing tape, mine was mangled as well, barrel almost falling out. Barrel looks good. I have a new in the white MM 21e trunnion i used to check bolt gap on other barrels, fits fine. Not as tight as my FMP barrel, but still a good fit. Bolt gap the same as a new FMP barrel in the MM trunnion. Jeff at PCS has tested one of these RCM barrels a bunch and nothing but good things to say. I had an order with cryo as well, but ended up cxl and just stuck with the RCM, I wont shoot enough to shoot it out anyway, and anyone who has the $$$ to shoot it out, wont mind buying a second. I trust RCM with their experience with the chamber fluting, and it looks beautiful in hand. Now I can keep these 2 FMP barrels new as well.
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Originally Posted By Type7SOT: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/490765/1000007313_jpg-3302556.JPG Clipped and pinned SEF Navy lower installed. It took a good amount of fitting on both the lower AND the gun. Clearly the HK21 was not designed to work with a polymer lower because there is interference with the feed box. The sheetmetal lower fits better because its thinner. Ill try to get pics later showing what I'm talking about. But anyway, seems to work if you modify some things, and looks great! View Quote I'm trying to get the shroud and feed box attached. How did you get to the joints between the box and shroud to weld up? My torch don't fit in there. I am considering turning a bushing to insert into the shroud to make up the gap and welding it in, then welding it onto the box. |
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Originally Posted By 19Charlie_84: Still have not received email from RCM, I guess I'm way down the list. HK Parts has them for 675, so I guess same same and don't have to mail a check. Plus I needed MP5 parts. View Quote I was planning on canceling my Cryo order and just buying a RCM from HKP but sadly they’re sold out. |
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Originally Posted By JoshNC: There are many more in the pipeline. E-mail RCM and get on the list. View Quote Yeah no rush I guess. I’m just at a stopping point with this build until I get a barrel. I was on the first list but just dropped 20k to have the driveway paved so the wife wasn’t excited about me shelling out $700 for a barrel when I already paid $1000 for the cryo barrel that I still don’t have. |
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Originally Posted By Pro_Patria_431: I'm trying to get the shroud and feed box attached. How did you get to the joints between the box and shroud to weld up? My torch don't fit in there. I am considering turning a bushing to insert into the shroud to make up the gap and welding it in, then welding it onto the box. View Quote My shroud isnt welded yet. |
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Originally Posted By Pro_Patria_431: Oh. I am new to TIG, I tried to stick the tungsten out to reach it, even though I suspected it would be outside the gas shield. It turned out that I suspected right. I had planned on sliding the box back for clearance, then moving it back in place and have a more favorable angle. The rails prevented me from doing that without really prying on the feed box wings. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/358054/1000009230-3339470.jpg View Quote I've watched lots of Welding Tips n Tricks videos on youtube, Jody is a really good teacher; watching the arc shots and mimicking the movements. You need to clean everything, really well, and sharpen your tungsten like a hypodermic needle sharp. A gas lens and pyrex cup are game changers compared to those ceramic cups and the copper torch things. Seems like the feed box should be welded before the shroud. I haven't started my kit yet, but have been studying this thread, several on weapons guild, diagrams, pics PCS posts, anything I can read. Barrel comes in tomorrow so that's the last piece before I start. Pesky customer guns also getting in the way of my pet projects. |
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I haven’t seen a build where the shroud was welded before the feed mech housing. That weld between the housing and the rear bipod bushing is tough though. The weld will draw the shroud around when it cools and causes your barrel to be off-center. I welded mine like a bolt pattern and it turned out nice.
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I dropped the pieces off at the machinist today. I am going to try the bushing idea on this one and see how it goes. If nothing else, I will end up with square surfaces to warp.
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The bushing seems like it will work.
Next problem. This thing won't unlock with the charging handle. The receiver passed the bolt drop after getting the rails welded. Bolt gap after doing the HK slap is .025, I can get it down to .014 if I give it a tap from the back of the carrier. The gap between the carrier and the cocking piece its .150 after the tap. I have to smack the charging handle with a mallet to get it to unlock, I can finish cycling it by hand, although it takes more effort than my PTR. |
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Isn't a cocking handle gap of .150 way too big? I thought it should be more like .030.
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Gap from the carrier to support should be about the same or a bit bigger than the bolt gap. I’ve dealt with that before.
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So excited to see your rifles up and running. Have to live out my dreams vicariously through yall lol
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Assuming you haven’t welded the shroud, it’s an easy fix. Put a 0.020” shim on the front of the carrier and trim the shroud or receiver until the carrier is touching the cocking handle support (with shim between them). Double sided tape or other means to keep it in there will make it easier.
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Originally Posted By BASE: Assuming you haven’t welded the shroud, it’s an easy fix. Put a 0.020” shim on the front of the carrier and trim the shroud or receiver until the carrier is touching the cocking handle support (with shim between them). Double sided tape or other means to keep it in there will make it easier. View Quote I will try that. Thanks. |
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Anyone run into issues with the RCM barrel lugs not engaging into the slots on the factory HK trunnion? Mine is JUST wanting to start, but the barrel handle is hitting the shroud before I can get it rotated enough to start the lugs into the trunnion.
I suppose I can bend the front guard some, or light trim the lugs on the barrel. ETA: I guess I could slightly rotate the trunnion when welding. |
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Originally Posted By TZLVredmist: Anyone run into issues with the RCM barrel lugs not engaging into the slots on the factory HK trunnion? Mine is JUST wanting to start, but the barrel handle is hitting the shroud before I can get it rotated enough to start the lugs into the trunnion. I suppose I can bend the front guard some, or light trim the lugs on the barrel. ETA: I guess I could slightly rotate the trunnion when welding. View Quote Where does it hit the shroud? I would not want to rotate the trunion, unless it’s not properly indexed. If the trunion is canted, you may have issues with the bolt going into battery and putting off axis loads on the bolthead, rollers, and trunion. |
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Both of mine hit the top of the shroud opening right as they click into the locked position. Not much room for error there.
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Are you folks running the trunnion all the way to the rails?
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Yeah I'm pretty sure that's how they are all meant to be. Making a nice tight and flush joint from rails to trunion seems to make the bolt run a lot smoother too.
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Originally Posted By Pro_Patria_431: Oh. I am new to TIG, I tried to stick the tungsten out to reach it, even though I suspected it would be outside the gas shield. It turned out that I suspected right. I had planned on sliding the box back for clearance, then moving it back in place and have a more favorable angle. The rails prevented me from doing that without really prying on the feed box wings. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/358054/1000009230-3339470.jpg View Quote get a FUPA 12 Pyrex cup and you can have WAY more stickout to get down in there. and gas coverage. OR a 15 cup.. like having a water glass for a cup. I know guys who can weld a fart to a rainbow during a tornado With my machines I am great with others machines I am not so great. |
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"The development of the flamethrower proves that at one time, someone, somewhere thought to themself: There are people over there that I want to set on fire, but they are too far away. George Carlin
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Originally Posted By BASE: Yeah I'm pretty sure that's how they are all meant to be. Making a nice tight and flush joint from rails to trunion seems to make the bolt run a lot smoother too. View Quote Would it be wise, when welding trunnion, to have the bolt in the carrier and locked in the trunion to keep everything plum and true? |
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Originally Posted By mcroberts307: Would it be wise, when welding trunnion, to have the bolt in the carrier and locked in the trunion to keep everything plum and true? View Quote This is what I do for cetmes, MP5s, 91s, etc. Just tack each plug in an alternating, lug nut method, to not overheat stuff. Verify straightness, then plug weld each one. |
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I tweaked something, my carrier is significantly dragging on the trunnion now. I will be carefully taking it apart and starting over.
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Originally Posted By Pro_Patria_431: I tweaked something, my carrier is significantly dragging on the trunnion now. I will be carefully taking it apart and starting over. View Quote Is it binding on the trunnion or the receiver? You probably warped the receiver slightly, see if you can straighten it out. |
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Originally Posted By Type7SOT: Is it binding on the trunnion or the receiver? You probably warped the receiver slightly, see if you can straighten it out. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By Type7SOT: Originally Posted By Pro_Patria_431: I tweaked something, my carrier is significantly dragging on the trunnion now. I will be carefully taking it apart and starting over. Is it binding on the trunnion or the receiver? You probably warped the receiver slightly, see if you can straighten it out. The carrier would drop and lock when I just had everything tacked. It will drop all the way if I put it in backwards. I applied Dykem to the interior of the receiver and at the front of the carrier. It marks about 7:00 on the front of the carrier. I didn't pay attention while welding, and pulled it out of alignment. I'm going to take a break and consider solutions before I whack on it. I would rather disassemble it and try to get it right before I clearance any parts. Once I get it tacked back together, I will probably hit up a real welder to run the beads this time. Im posting my problems to help others look out for issues that may arise. Since Im winging it, I will have problems that more experienced guys would consider an implied task. Of course, I am listening to you more experienced guys observations as well. I appreciate the help. |
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Take the carrier out and look down the receiver and through the trunnion hole. Does it look like everything is in a straight line?
On mine, the trunnion pulled downwards because there were more welds on the bottom than the top. I had to get creative and beat it into straightness without damaging anything. It involved blocks of wood, some heat, and a lot of patience. |
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In the massive weapons guild thread, a guy said to weld 1/4 inch at a time (maybe one plug weld) then let it cool to the touch. Don't force cool it with compressed air or anything. These guns are very susceptible to warpage. Moreso than normal 9x series guns.
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We have been working on one most of the day. Things I learned or am learning the hard way..
You may need to cut the front of your receiver to get the proper tube gap. Tack and weld the box holder on before welding it on. I may or may not have an issue with the bolt jumping the index pin. Use your barrel to test shroud alignment. I had an aluminum rod I planned on using and good thing I didn't. A rubber mallet is a very handy tool. I will cut and raise the rear of the feeder box hanger tomorrow and see what I come up with. |
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Its to late for the boots, save your watch!
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Ok, this is new territory for me.
I have the bolt assembled (Bitch!) and drop it into the receiver and it slides home beautiful... and it's very very locked in place! I have to smack the charging handle back with a lot of force to overcome the locking lever (Piece that is adding tension to bolt) to get it to even unlock. It's like the locking or tensioning spring on the carrier is of ungodly force! |
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Originally Posted By TZLVredmist: Ok, this is new territory for me. I have the bolt assembled (Bitch!) and drop it into the receiver and it slides home beautiful... and it's very very locked in place! I have to smack the charging handle back with a lot of force to overcome the locking lever (Piece that is adding tension to bolt) to get it to even unlock. It's like the locking or tensioning spring on the carrier is of ungodly force! View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By TZLVredmist: Ok, this is new territory for me. I have the bolt assembled (Bitch!) and drop it into the receiver and it slides home beautiful... and it's very very locked in place! I have to smack the charging handle back with a lot of force to overcome the locking lever (Piece that is adding tension to bolt) to get it to even unlock. It's like the locking or tensioning spring on the carrier is of ungodly force! My problem with that was too much gap between the charging handle and carrier. Good answers above in the thread. Originally Posted By BASE: Assuming you haven’t welded the shroud, it’s an easy fix. Put a 0.020” shim on the front of the carrier and trim the shroud or receiver until the carrier is touching the cocking handle support (with shim between them). Double sided tape or other means to keep it in there will make it easier. ETA: Read the suggestions on the finish welding I got after I tweaked my build. It will save you some sadness. |
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Originally Posted By Pro_Patria_431: My problem with that was too much gap between the charging handle and carrier. Good answers above in the tread. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By Pro_Patria_431: Originally Posted By TZLVredmist: Ok, this is new territory for me. I have the bolt assembled (Bitch!) and drop it into the receiver and it slides home beautiful... and it's very very locked in place! I have to smack the charging handle back with a lot of force to overcome the locking lever (Piece that is adding tension to bolt) to get it to even unlock. It's like the locking or tensioning spring on the carrier is of ungodly force! My problem with that was too much gap between the charging handle and carrier. Good answers above in the tread. Originally Posted By BASE: Assuming you haven’t welded the shroud, it’s an easy fix. Put a 0.020” shim on the front of the carrier and trim the shroud or receiver until the carrier is touching the cocking handle support (with shim between them). Double sided tape or other means to keep it in there will make it easier. Nailed it. Yup, I now see how the cocking handle levers the bolt open. My bolt gap is .035, and I have a decent gap between the cocking tube and the bolt carrier. I dropped a punch between the gap real quick to test and it cams it open now no problem! Will trim to accommodate. |
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Originally Posted By BASE: I noticed on mine that there is very little tolerance for misalignment with the top of the carrier and the cocking tube/receiver. Just a tiny bit of weld burn through at that junction can cause it to hang up even if everything is perfectly straight. When building the G3K version I noticed that the carrier extension is a much larger diameter further fwd than the regular G3 carrier so that probably contributes to the issue. The 21 bolt wont fit into a regular 9X cocking tube because of that diameter/step. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/196570/IMG_4107-3351472.jpg ETA: The point I didn't really finish making there is that you might not be as far off as you think. It took very little persuasion for my first one to resume sliding into battery under it's own weight once I addressed that cocking tube junction/weld. View Quote A misalignment at the junction sounds likely. It seems to hang up where you described. I didn't Dykem there, I will certainly check that out. ETA: You were right. I took the top part off the mandrel I had built and pressed it through. That straightened it back out. |
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A few tips from a first run, this covers the cocking tube support/ bolt gap issue. You have to trim the receiver.
HK21 project- Start here HK21- cutting the receiver and starting to fit items. |
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Its to late for the boots, save your watch!
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Originally Posted By kells81: A few tips from a first run, this covers the cocking tube support/ bolt gap issue. You have to trim the receiver. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A1kkPrNQvaU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hLrzJGbXbY4 View Quote I've been watching all your videos before I start mine, really good info! I can't find anywhere that I thought I read in this thread or on WG about butting the trunnion against the rails like a G3, or leave a gap. Or the reinforcement rails need to touch the trunnion? I can't remember which it was. Doing it one way makes the gun beat it self to death. Thoughts? |
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Alright, Another issue that is a head scratcher, I have everything dry fit, however the bottom of the bolt is dragging on the feed box plate. (The one on the top that you clip in first... Feed ramp plate?) it looks like the bolt is proud into this space.
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Man, have a photo? That feed box plate should be sitting on the trunnion flats in the front. Maybe you have it too far up.
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Its to late for the boots, save your watch!
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You really might have the wrong bolt head! It should have a hole
In the front upper corner. |
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Its to late for the boots, save your watch!
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Originally Posted By TZLVredmist: I think they sent me the wrong bolt honestly. I assume it's suppose to fit between this gap in the lift tray, but my bolt is wider then the slot... also I don't have the hole in the front of the bolt like others do. Hmmmm.... https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/47383/PXL_20241023_022701710-3356299.jpg https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/47383/PXL_20241023_022726851-3356300.jpg https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/47383/PXL_20241023_022830616-3356301.jpg Here is my Bolt profile: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/47383/PXL_20241023_023558606-3356304.jpg And here is the profile of another members from Page one: Different for sure! https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/47383/1000007002_jpg-3228331-3356307.jpg View Quote That is a G3 bolthead. |
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Originally Posted By JoshNC: That is a G3 bolthead. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By JoshNC: Originally Posted By TZLVredmist: I think they sent me the wrong bolt honestly. I assume it's suppose to fit between this gap in the lift tray, but my bolt is wider then the slot... also I don't have the hole in the front of the bolt like others do. Hmmmm.... https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/47383/PXL_20241023_022701710-3356299.jpg https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/47383/PXL_20241023_022726851-3356300.jpg https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/47383/PXL_20241023_022830616-3356301.jpg Here is my Bolt profile: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/47383/PXL_20241023_023558606-3356304.jpg And here is the profile of another members from Page one: Different for sure! https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/47383/1000007002_jpg-3228331-3356307.jpg That is a G3 bolthead. Fantastic! Welp off to HKPARTS tech support E-mail! |
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