User Panel
User Panel
User Panel
|
Posted: 7/23/2024 6:42:01 PM EDT
[Last Edit: towerofpower94]
[#1]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Diz: Mine hasn't had as much wobble. But I loctite'd all the hardware. I think this is an issue with their QC being all over the place, the luck of the draw, etc. What I have started doing is ordering metric hardware, of known quality, to replace all the little screws on not only the RQE, but all the Chinese stuff I've bought. This has been their Achillies heal. Yes it's a PITA to have to do this, but may be worth it. I am going to order another RQE to rig the RH25 and -14 together, and will see how that works, as compared to the one I already have with the Breach and -14. Diz, could you post links for the items you buy? I have the two I pasted the descriptions of above from EBay, but want to make sure I end up with the right bits to put on the -14 and to interface with the SBR and PF640/RH25. Trying links again https://www.ebay.com/itm/404597599621?var=674589444147 https://www.ebay.com/itm/284968533256?var=586773027013 |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/23/2024 8:20:49 PM EDT
[Last Edit: towerofpower94]
[#2]
Just got the update that SBRs are shipping to the US soon
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/23/2024 8:54:35 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Diz]
[#3]
All right! Ready to jump on that.
On SOTAC, for sure, that's my man "Gxifac"; bought a shit-ton from him. And "Guangzh85" also has a good selection. Sooner or later they're gonna try and shut this down, so I'm buying doubles on all this shit. If you're gonna get the JV SBR and PDA, don't worry about the OSS set. Just get the RQE. But if you're like me, you're gonna want both for options. Yes, the hardware can be a PITA but it's also an easy fix. |
|
|
|
DEU
|
Posted: 7/24/2024 6:34:42 AM EDT
[Last Edit: javemtr]
[#4]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Diz: ... On SOTAC, for sure, that's my man "Gxifac"; bought a shit-ton from him. And "Guangzh85" also has a good selection. Sooner or later they're gonna try and shut this down, so I'm buying doubles on all this shit. If you're gonna get the JV SBR and PDA, don't worry about the OSS set. Just get the RQE. But if you're like me, you're gonna want both for options. ... I've bought from eBay seller "gxifac" before. Parts are ok, but somewhat sloppy. Examples: - Wilcox FTS mounts: two mounts, the way they locked up on the same dovetail was very different, one way looser than the other. Also the locking latch to lock the mount in the down position doesn't engage properly on one of the mounts. - KVC OSS: very loose fit between the moveable dovetail and the extension arm. If you don't pay close attention when tightening the set screw, the dovetail might sit canted. - KVC/RQE bridge: the fit of the interpupillary distance sliders can be tightened via set screws, that part works well. But the rotating dovetail receptacles have play in their locking positions, both up and down. |
|
|
DEU
|
Posted: 7/24/2024 6:37:05 AM EDT
[#5]
Here's the latest update:
 JV Innovations SBR production batch #1 |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/24/2024 12:36:00 PM EDT
[#6]
Well actual Wilcox parts are notroiuos for being "sloppy", so apples to apples, these copies ain't bad. And are available. And don't cost an arm and a leg.
When you attach the bungees, everything tightens up. On another note, just got the RH25 unit itself. All I can say is wow. After running around with a Breach for awhile, this thing is amazing. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/24/2024 1:08:05 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Diz: Well actual Wilcox parts are notroiuos for being "sloppy", so apples to apples, these copies ain't bad. And are available. And don't cost an arm and a leg. When you attach the bungees, everything tightens up. On another note, just got the RH25 unit itself. All I can say is wow. After running around with a Breach for awhile, this thing is amazing. Had a similar call this morning- "just got my RH25 and wow.." was the jist of it. This is a guy that uses thermal A LOT pig hunting and has a lot of experience with thermal. Was particularly impressed with how well it did in high humidity/rain. "Blows away other American units I've used." |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/24/2024 2:12:45 PM EDT
[#8]
Yeah that's the short version. Will post up more as I play with it.
Props to Robert at JRH for a great deal! I hate to say it, but this thing is probably going to replace a lot of scanning usually done through NV. |
|
|
|
TN, USA
|
Posted: 7/24/2024 5:01:10 PM EDT
[#9]
Having used my RH25 all year to do hog and deer management, I find myself only flipping down the duals to just make sure I don't step in a hole. A handy handheld thermal is awesome and the entire appeal of the JV mount is to make it simpler to replace it on the rifle when I am in final approach to start shooting.
|
|
|
MI, USA
|
Posted: 7/25/2024 9:58:20 AM EDT
[#10]
Mine is arriving today. Intended uses are handheld and clip-on. I am using a pano set-up with dual -14s, so not inclined (as yet) to invest in a different set-up to bridge -14/-25.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/25/2024 8:38:54 PM EDT
[#11]
Imma gonna run it on a SOTAC RQE, with a SOTAC OSS on the -14, and an ADM/Iray OSS on the RH25 itself. Yeah that mount is stupid expensive but it's the only way that's gonna work. You could say the money I saved on the SOTAC stuff went into the ADM mount. So 600.- all up.
But Frenchy is right; this thing needs an engineering degree to figure out the programming. BTW anybody ever find an "off the shelf" cable for an external batt pack? |
|
|
|
USA
|
Posted: 7/26/2024 7:44:16 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Diz: Imma gonna run it on a SOTAC RQE, with a SOTAC OSS on the -14, and an ADM/Iray OSS on the RH25 itself. Yeah that mount is stupid expensive but it's the only way that's gonna work. You could say the money I saved on the SOTAC stuff went into the ADM mount. So 600.- all up. But Frenchy is right; this thing needs an engineering degree to figure out the programming. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Diz: Imma gonna run it on a SOTAC RQE, with a SOTAC OSS on the -14, and an ADM/Iray OSS on the RH25 itself. Yeah that mount is stupid expensive but it's the only way that's gonna work. You could say the money I saved on the SOTAC stuff went into the ADM mount. So 600.- all up. But Frenchy is right; this thing needs an engineering degree to figure out the programming. iRay desperately needed to put in a four-way joystick in this thing. The controls are just a pain. Everything else is pretty great. Plus side, once it's set up, you're generally not playing around with the fiddly bits much. BTW anybody ever find an "off the shelf" cable for an external batt pack? https://darknightoutdoors.com/infiray-rh25-rl25-power-data-cable-24/ I'm waiting for the SBR dovetail to come out, and then I'll deal with getting the clip-on stuff configured. While I like the helmet-mount option, I have a JerryC5 already, and I think monocular use would be a lot more plausible in the daytime. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/26/2024 10:51:51 AM EDT
[#13]
Roger that, just shot them off an email. What obj lens cover are you guys using? The BC 02A?
|
|
|
|
TN, USA
|
Posted: 7/27/2024 11:39:16 AM EDT
[Last Edit: hydrostatic_cling]
[#14]
The OneHundredConcepts Thermal Cap is so far my favorite solution.
https://onehundredconcepts.com/products/thermalcap%E2%84%A2 |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/30/2024 8:48:48 PM EDT
[#15]
So is this better than my AGM STINGIR-384?
|
|
|
|
MI, USA
|
Posted: 7/31/2024 6:48:34 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By aftac: So is this better than my AGM STINGIR-384? It depends on you criteria. The StingIR is smaller and lighter, can use common/shared batteries (CR123s). RH25 is higher resolution and recoil rated. |
|
|
UKR
|
Posted: 7/31/2024 11:32:22 AM EDT
[Last Edit: B_t]
[#17]
Originally Posted By Diz: Roger that, just shot them off an email. What obj lens cover are you guys using? The BC 02A?   
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/31/2024 11:44:49 AM EDT
[#18]
Cap looks like it could be an ARD? If so where did you get it? Thanks
Would like a sacrificial filter type system for FOF events. I know they make a mesh type one for the MH25, anyone know if one is available for the RH25? |
|
|
|
MI, USA
|
Posted: 7/31/2024 11:46:35 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Lowdown3: Cap looks like it could be an ARD? If so where did you get it? Thanks Would like a sacrificial filter type system for FOF events. I know they make a mesh type one for the MH25, anyone know if one is available for the RH25? I've only seen the costly one from Cold Harbour. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/31/2024 11:58:30 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Ex_Sanguine_Nation: I've only seen the costly one from Cold Harbour. Thanks. I thought they were from Canada? |
|
|
|
MI, USA
|
Posted: 7/31/2024 12:07:34 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Lowdown3: Thanks. I thought they were from Canada? They are but I don't think there's an issue with that in this case? https://coldharboursupply.com/en-us/products/cold-harbour-x-isle-mfg-rh25-defender |
|
|
UKR
|
Posted: 7/31/2024 12:24:00 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Lowdown3: Cap looks like it could be an ARD? If so where did you get it? Thanks Would like a sacrificial filter type system for FOF events. I know they make a mesh type one for the MH25, anyone know if one is available for the RH25? It's cheap photo lens cap, 30 mm + steel fishing cable in thermal insulation tube, everything cost me less than 5$ But you need to find lense cap with flat surface to attach velcro, majority are not flat |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/31/2024 1:19:22 PM EDT
[#23]
Thanks guys!
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/31/2024 2:10:10 PM EDT
[#24]
Okee Dokee got the BC 02A. But getting mixed messages from DarkNightOutdoors. It looks like they will soon offer a 90 deg connecter for a RH25 7-pin, but when I emailed them about it, the dude says I'm not a big fan of helmet mounting and basically blew me off. So...OK.
Any other choices out there? |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/31/2024 5:36:30 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Ex_Sanguine_Nation: It depends on you criteria. The StingIR is smaller and lighter, can use common/shared batteries (CR123s). RH25 is higher resolution and recoil rated. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Ex_Sanguine_Nation: Originally Posted By aftac: So is this better than my AGM STINGIR-384? It depends on you criteria. The StingIR is smaller and lighter, can use common/shared batteries (CR123s). RH25 is higher resolution and recoil rated. I was looking at the StingIR for handheld only use, due to the tiny size and weight, but went with the RH25 to give myself options if I decide to use it as a clip on or dedicated scope in the future. Figured a few more ounces was worth the buy once, fry once price tags on these things. |
|
|
|
SD, USA
|
Posted: 8/1/2024 5:02:49 PM EDT
[#26]
Anyone successfully running the Sotac RQE with their OSS shoes for dual 14s?
Just got mine in today, still waiting on the RH25, and am having some issues. Unless it's set up wrong or I am missing something I don't see a way to adjust the RH pvs up to match the LH one. As it currently is setup the RH pvs sits about 3/16 - 1/4 of an inch lower making the setup basically unusable. Pic attached for clarification, all the red lines are parallel to each other. 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/1/2024 5:20:26 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Diz]
[#27]
Damn. Can you shim RH side to get it up? Then just need a slightly longer screw? And/or deepen slot for ring on LH side. My stuff is in storage right now, can't get at it, but once I'm set up, I will see what I get and we'll figure it out. I've only run a -14 and a Breach, but just got another -14 (and a RH25). Not planning on using the 2 x -14's together, but still need to figure this out.
A lot will depend on where the SH25 hangs, and if the mount for RH -14 also needs to be modified. Depending on what mount you go with for RH25. I'm looking at their obverse mount now, to mount batt box outboard, LH side. |
|
|
|
DEU
|
Posted: 8/3/2024 9:17:12 AM EDT
[Last Edit: javemtr]
[#28]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MtnRoamer: Anyone successfully running the Sotac RQE with their OSS shoes for dual 14s? Just got mine in today, still waiting on the RH25, and am having some issues. Unless it's set up wrong or I am missing something I don't see a way to adjust the RH pvs up to match the LH one. As it currently is setup the RH pvs sits about 3/16 - 1/4 of an inch lower making the setup basically unusable. What you are describing is one of the many design issues with the KCV Obverse Shoe Set (OSS): that the two different dovetails are at different heights from the optical centerline. The one they call the helmet shoe (the one with the clamp around the objective lens locking ring) sits higher than the weapon shoe (the one that mounts directly to the 1/4-20 body threads). On my Sotac clone version mounted to an ACTinblack The14 housing, the difference is only about 1/8", but the issue still exists. I think I have a working solution, but I'm not quite ready to show it off yet. |
|
|
SD, USA
|
Posted: 8/3/2024 12:12:34 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By javemtr: What you are describing is one of the many design issues with the KCV Obverse Shoe Set (OSS): that the two different dovetails are at different heights from the optical centerline. The one they call the helmet shoe (the one with the clamp around the objective lens locking ring) sits higher than the weapon shoe (the one that mounts directly to the 1/4-20 body threads). On my Sotac clone version mounted to an ACTinblack The14 housing, the difference is only about 1/8", but the issue still exists. I think I have a working solution, but I'm not quite ready to show it off yet. That's interesting that they copied the flaw. I swapped around monoculars and ended up with only about 1/8" for the current set up as well, so it seems there might be some differences in the housings I have. I'd be interested in seeing what you come up with for a solution. I drew this up this morning, and while it's a little crude it will hopefully get the job done. It interfaces between the weapon shoe and the LH monocular to drop that monocular down, towards the ground when worn. Unfortunately I don't have a 3d printer so it'll be a second before I can test it out though. Looks like McMaster Carr has screws that will work too.  
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/3/2024 8:26:11 PM EDT
[#30]
Hey very cool. You guys impress me with your mad engineering skills. I'll be glad to help out with this project, even if just to off-set some costs.
Will be interested in seeing what JV comes up with as well. Not really interested in pairing two -14's but definitely want to have the capability just in case. Mainly interested in getting -14 and RH25 working together. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/3/2024 9:38:35 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 56xdx_Z]
[#31]
Has anyone found a fix to lock it in clip-on mode? All of the automatic changing to helmet and back to handheld mode, whenever the gun is moved around, really reduces the usability of the device
ETA: it seems like if I go into Menu Mode, and select Clip-On at least once after each boot up, it will reliably go back to clip on mode. But if I just toggle using the long press of menu, it will revert to handheld after being rotated. Maybe they have fixed this in a later firmware |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/4/2024 8:02:54 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Diz: Hey very cool. You guys impress me with your mad engineering skills. I'll be glad to help out with this project, even if just to off-set some costs. Will be interested in seeing what JV comes up with as well. Not really interested in pairing two -14's but definitely want to have the capability just in case. Mainly interested in getting -14 and RH25 working together. Samesies. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/4/2024 9:44:26 AM EDT
[#33]
Well, since I am also exploring going RH -14, LH RH25, I ordered the Iray/ADM obverse dovetail mount. So you can just stay in clip-on mode when helmet-mounted. That might be "A" way.
Also just got the SOTAC RH flip mount. And it does have the lock, just like the Skeet-IR. Not that you have to have that. It's pretty snug just in FTO without it. It's funny I told a good buddy, who runs the -14 and Breach, just like I did, about this RH25 deal. He said damn, you're about the 4th guy who's said that this week. It is a pretty impressive piece of kit, if we can ever get mounts sorted. |
|
|
|
DEU
|
Posted: 8/4/2024 11:09:03 AM EDT
[Last Edit: javemtr]
[#34]
In case people here are interested in a very basic Picatinny mounting solution for the RH25:
this adapter allows the use of the readily available ADM AD-170-S mounting bases. This particular version is as low as I can go without designing a dedicated Picatinny clamp, the optical centerline ends up at 1.38". But making it for the standard heights like 1.54" and others is easy. Note: the ADM base pictured is not an AD-170-S, it's the bigger AD-170 (it's the only one I had). So the smaller AD-170-S will end up at a slightly different fore/aft position under the RH25 body.   
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/4/2024 11:44:13 AM EDT
[Last Edit: GunnyFitz]
[#35]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Diz: Hey very cool. You guys impress me with your mad engineering skills. I'll be glad to help out with this project, even if just to off-set some costs. Will be interested in seeing what JV comes up with as well. Not really interested in pairing two -14's but definitely want to have the capability just in case. Mainly interested in getting -14 and RH25 working together. Your enthusiasm is commendable Diz. Nothing better than jumping into the deep end and giving everything a valiant effort! I'm sure you expressed it somewhere above but in your final words of this quote - are you seeking to get the 14 over your RIGHT eye and RH over left? That's what I wanted and gave up - though I have all necessary gear in a box. |
|
|
|
SD, USA
|
Posted: 8/4/2024 1:50:25 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Diz: Hey very cool. You guys impress me with your mad engineering skills. I'll be glad to help out with this project, even if just to off-set some costs. Will be interested in seeing what JV comes up with as well. Not really interested in pairing two -14's but definitely want to have the capability just in case. Mainly interested in getting -14 and RH25 working together. Appreciate that Diz, I'm just doing this for fun though and luckily 3d printing is dirt cheap. Sent ya a PM as well, but if I can get a prototype close to working I'll send it over for you to try out too. Once we get a good working spacer design I'll upload the file somewhere for whoever wants it. Looks like the Obverse Micro Shoe would be the way to go for an RH25 left eye, PVS14 right eye setup as well as it would fix the IPD issues the RH25 battery causes. |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/4/2024 5:01:22 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By javemtr: In case people here are interested in a very basic Picatinny mounting solution for the RH25: this adapter allows the use of the readily available ADM AD-170-S mounting bases. This particular version is as low as I can go without designing a dedicated Picatinny clamp, the optical centerline ends up at 1.38". But making it for the standard heights like 1.54" and others is easy. Note: the ADM base pictured is not an AD-170-S, it's the bigger AD-170 (it's the only one I had). So the smaller AD-170-S will end up at a slightly different fore/aft position under the RH25 body. https://i.imgur.com/az9btzI.jpeg https://i.imgur.com/Wl9skgB.jpeg https://i.imgur.com/Mo8YqX7.jpeg Dude, make that for a 1.54” height (like the LT660 or other lower 1/3 cowitness mounts a bunch of folks still use for T2s and the like) and you’ll sell everyone you make. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/5/2024 7:49:00 AM EDT
[#38]
i don't believe AU has had "blem" rh25's for $3499 for a couple of days now and they still have some in stock
they have pics of the blems and they look like minor nicks here and there from assembly |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/5/2024 8:59:35 PM EDT
[#39]
botach also has a few blem units for the same price
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/9/2024 8:36:46 PM EDT
[Last Edit: rDigital]
[#40]
how bad a blem are we talking about ? EDIT, NM found the google photos on AU’s site.
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/9/2024 9:13:19 PM EDT
[#41]
How do these compare to the v2 Rattler 640 from AGM?
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/12/2024 12:40:55 PM EDT
[Last Edit: chosos]
[#42]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By towerofpower94: Where in the unit did the wobble show up after use? The mount interfacing with the shroud, the individual mounts holding the -14/thermal, or somewhere else? the slop was in each of the flip up ends - like almost where it hinges. i felt like there should be a set screw to clean it up, but i didn't find one. I also didnt take it all apart, since i just swapped for a new unit. Unrelated - did strictlyoffensive already sell out on the SBR's, or are they still waiting for stock? |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/12/2024 2:45:21 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By chosos: the slop was in each of the flip up ends - like almost where it hinges. i felt like there should be a set screw to clean it up, but i didn't find one. I also didnt take it all apart, since i just swapped for a new unit. Unrelated - did strictlyoffensive already sell out on the SBR's, or are they still waiting for stock? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By chosos: Originally Posted By towerofpower94: Where in the unit did the wobble show up after use? The mount interfacing with the shroud, the individual mounts holding the -14/thermal, or somewhere else? the slop was in each of the flip up ends - like almost where it hinges. i felt like there should be a set screw to clean it up, but i didn't find one. I also didnt take it all apart, since i just swapped for a new unit. Unrelated - did strictlyoffensive already sell out on the SBR's, or are they still waiting for stock? I believe the latest update was that the import/export process was experiencing a delay of 1-2 weeks. I have not received an in stock alert yet. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/12/2024 4:24:00 PM EDT
[Last Edit: NoEffects6]
[#44]
It’s on sale for $3,999.00 at multiple vendors. I might have to FO.
ETA: Or is that the new normal price? Last time I checked it was just under 5K. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/12/2024 5:31:05 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By NoEffects6: It’s on sale for $3,999.00 at multiple vendors. I might have to FO. ETA: Or is that the new normal price? Last time I checked it was just under 5K. We have been told since it started it was a temporary price cut from the manufacturer and only on a small amount of units. We blew through a bunch of them early on and then secured another (smaller) quantity. We have a few left shipping out same day you order. Call to order and ask for Arf discount (on phone orders). |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/12/2024 6:25:48 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Lowdown3: We have been told since it started it was a temporary price cut from the manufacturer and only on a small amount of units. We blew through a bunch of them early on and then secured another (smaller) quantity. We have a few left shipping out same day you order. Call to order and ask for Arf discount (on phone orders). I guess I’m part of the club now! Cleared with bank. Thanks for the discount. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/13/2024 8:53:08 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By NoEffects6: I guess I’m part of the club now! Cleared with bank. Thanks for the discount. Went back to the shop last night after we talked, got it processed and ready to ship. Look for tracking number in email today. Thanks again, appreciate your business! |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/13/2024 9:25:00 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Lowdown3: Went back to the shop last night after we talked, got it processed and ready to ship. Look for tracking number in email today. Thanks again, appreciate your business! Thank you |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/13/2024 3:58:10 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By NoEffects6: Thank you No worries, thank you! Tracking number just sent to you via email. Appreciate your business. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/14/2024 10:57:53 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Lowdown3: No worries, thank you! Tracking number just sent to you via email. Appreciate your business. I’m glad you posted that you had some left. Got a good deal and helped a members business. Thursday is going to be a fun day. |
|
|
|
Win a FREE Membership!
Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!
You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.
AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types.
From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm.
Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more.
Copyright © 1996-2024 AR15.COM LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.
AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own.
