We have a template settup with the maximum sampling speed possible of the fastest 3 channel Pulse family unit (which some companies in the industry don't even have the ability to do because some of their pulse analyzers have 4 mics and are ~1/4 the sampling speed - I believe those are called pulse-lite units by the B&K sales people), and we have one A weighting filter in the tree in order to conduct A-weighted peak hold testing.  It is a pretty standard template. The trigger is set to about 106DB, so when the first sound at that level happens, it records data for a significant period of time, and reports the peak number from the recording of each channel (microphone) into the excel template in real time.  We don't cut any of the data out of the recording, so we aren't trying to say, "this is precursor gas" or anything like that, and we aren't excluding anything based on some philosophical argument that that noise isn't relevant.    So if one single event hurts the appearance of the result, then the test is just not going to look as good for that product, because the objective of the standard is to have the lowest peak sound in the total cycle of firing.

Most silencer designers who have made the best sound suppressors have used a testing methodology very similar to the one our company is using- maybe differing slightly in the placement of the microphones.  I think about the only other testing standard I have heard of that made any other type of sense is whatever Phil Seberger was doing to make the fairly phenomenal Ops Inc designs of especially their 5.56mm cans.  Apparently that had something to do with taking photos of an oscilloscope screen that was graphically displaying data on different frequency ranges.  He apparently used that data to design systems that had exceptional tonal characteristics.  I didn't personally know Mr. Seberger, so I don't know what the testing method exactly was, but I know it produced some very high performance suppressors.  Of course, the suppressors being excellent doesn't by itself mean the testing standard was awesome, it could just mean the designs happened to be very good.  



I kind of agree that when you test competitor products, once in a while you find something really good in some way or another and it will give you a challenge to try to improve your product to be competitive with that performance attribute of the other product.  

For a long time I didn't have much of anything from competitors, and I thought that was symbolic of greater integrity or something like that, but what it also does is keep you in the dark as to what was possible and reduce your inspiration to do better, as well as sometimes not allow you to understand when something you make is quite high performance.  Now when I get a product in that does anything better, I appreciate that, because it becomes a challenge to try harder to accomplish something more.  

Random question, we're you at the UPOA handgun match a month or two ago?

People are pathetic.  I never once sat out a mission no matter how dangerous.  I once was the only lower enlisted volunteer to do the second half of a 36 hour out of AO mission that had killed one of the guys in my platoon with an EFP and we were going over the same roads.

If I hadn’t volunteered I don’t think either of the nco’s that went would have been ashamed enough to rodger up.  That wasn’t because I was suicidal, that was because it was fucking embarrassing standing there in a quiet room with nobody raising their hand because everyone thought it was a death mission. The platoon had partially farmed it out to our Samarra IP liason PSD detail in a political move for the morale of the people back with the platoon.  They comprised the mission of platoon elements that were working satellite out of smaller locations and supposedly less effected by the death of our friend which was not true. So after four hours of our own missions, around dusk that day, with no rest, we left on 36 hours more operations with no rest.  We had to stop for EOD eight times on that one mission.

In 2005, the military was spreading the infantry really thin to the effect our platoon was supporting 4 different missions at three different locations.  The reason the casualties in Iraq were low was primarily that very few of the ~150,000 deployed people were actually in the combat zone, and medical care was saving a lot of terribly maimed people like no other war previous to that.

John McCain supposedly hung POWs out to dry.  John Kerry was a known pussy who wrote himself up for purple hearts to end his tour early.  Thats an absurd post right there.

Later on a job contracting I was well gunning during a time when Iranian operatives brained two of our ~21 well gunners with .32 pistols at the ECP to the green zone.  I didn’t quit my job because there was a decent threat of getting shot in the head by an Iranian operative.  I went to work and fortunately SF units in the AO got actionable intel and took down the cell eventually.

When I quit contracting I completed my last of 5 contract tours, and only quit because my wife showed me an ultrasound and I realized I had a responsibility to be alive and present to be my sons dad.

For the record I consider those two ncos who rodgered up, to be brave as fuck. One of them was shot on that deployment and was only away from the platoon for one day.  The other had three kids and a wife to think about.

The test agrees with the chart in the manual when you consider that they don’t specify anything about the number and the 137 could be an ear rating on a 16” gun, even though they are condescending that type of cherry picking in one of the paragraphs below it.  

It is missleading to suggest we created a missleading force for dead air here in a test with qualified metrology equipment and 55grain ammo.

My initial comment that many lost their shit over was probably a little strong- it was more valid from the perspective of Dead Air being the industry leader they claim to be.  A 6” can doing 141.5db isn’t easy to do.  Back in 2008 when we designed the m4sd2, we made nine prototypes with totally different baffles at 6” oal, the best of those metered 140mil std.

We made a second batch at 6.625” and the best of those metered 134db mil std.  we went with that design for production.

I do think it has a lot of views, so in that respect we got some views. haha.



I am a member of the Army Sniper association.  Membership #782  I carry that card in my wallet. Not a lot of members of that- you have to show them a school certificate to be a member.  I have a CIB.  I spent over 4 years of my life in Iraq between the military and private military contracting which itself is tough to do and requires people to be highly qualified and competent- generally they have to have two years of combat experience (less earlier in WPS and more later on).  The only exceptions are things like SWAT can be considered high threat time qualifiers. Travis Haley worked for Blackwater as a WPS detail member, as an example of a household name of someone in that line of work.  I was a detail member for Triple Canopy and Triple Canopy was the company that took over for Blackwater in late 2007 when Iraq banned Blackwater from the country - the company literally shirt changed guys on contract and they never left the country, so Blackwater guys became TC guys.  I went to DDM courses with TC and with SOC.  TC had something like 300 former snipers from all branches on contract (1 in 4 guys).  I was a DDM with SOC and they required 3 years of military time as a sniper to allow a person to go to the DDM course and attempt to pass. Mike Pannone was a Project manager who stood up Triple Canopy- I never interacted with him as project managers are one guy at the top of management of the whole operation, but he is an example of the kind of high quality people TC would hire. Later that position was held by a guy who is now the head of security for BP Oil globally for example. TC was a very professional organization, and the people were all very qualified.  In WPS you could have a couple days without a mission and you could have 5 missions in a day.  In general there is at least one high threat mission per day. I was a detail member for John McCain and Lindsey Graham for a week during that.  I didn't know much about either of them at the time.  I only knew McCain had been a POW in Vietnam, but that's irrelevant to the line of work.  In that job you protect all kinds of people, and that's not something you think about, because that's secondary to the mission.  

With TC I went to vetting with an Army SF guy I had lived at the team house of on my 2009-2010 deployment and he failed the vetting course and did not become a Triple Canopy detail member- he failed PT, and he pissed hot for drugs- he had done something really unprofessional on that last military deployment and had been discharged, and I didn't say anything to anyone at the course, I wanted him to have a fair shot in the course, and he failed by himself.

With SOC, I went through the DDM course with an Army SF guy who I lived at the same team house of on my first deployment in 2004-2005.  He recognized me and jogged my memory of working with him.  He passed, but then they dicked him around (telling him to hold tight and wait for deployment) and he swore he would have a job in a week, and made a call and got a job flying UAV's in Afghanistan for twice as much money because he had a super high level intelligence clearance that essentially opened the door for him.  He was out of the country for that job in less than a week, and that was super cool because he could be that versatile.

Full disclosure I did fail vetting at Blackwater in 2006.  I didn't hear a command because I am partly deaf due to the military and I was trying to keep the hearing I had left, wearing ear plugs because flash bangs were being used, and I shot a shoot target in a shoothouse on a dry run with simunitions paint rounds during PRE (Principle response and evacuation) as the first guy in the door. Blackwater was a shit organization compared to TC.  They had a bunch of instructors who weren't even prior military (like correctional officers and sheriffs and stuff), and they were trying to figure out who was good for combat, as people who hadn't all been to combat. They were constantly creating an atmosphere of a stress pressure cooker by lieing to veterans about horribly dangerous SOP's- like one man detail in a mandress in an Iraqi taxi cab, and many of the combat veterans were getting seriously concerned and getting drunk every night because they were literally depressed at what they were hearing, probably dealing with PTSD, and the lies weren't helping- for a lot of those guys, they were recently separated combat veterans who had no other good options for work.  I didn't drink at the time, and I was dealing with that sober and I don't know what condition had the advantage in that senario. I was the last guy dropped from the course- they were at 11 guys when I left and all those guys passed, and we had started with 33 people- they failed 3 SF guys and a former Navy Seal in that course before me.  Blackwater was a mind fuck and dick measuring contest atmosphere compared to TC which had more of a performance atmosphere with a heavy USMC influence and USMC guys are hardworking guys. I later worked with friends from my BW course with TC (guys who had passed).  It was a learning experience to fail something.  It was the only thing I ever failed in my entire 12 year tactical career. I had beaten an instructor in a PT run after he had said he was going to be out front, and I know that was not politically correct, and I feel that my drop was partly because I hadn't played politics well at the course with regard to that singular wounding of the ego of an instructor.  If they liked you at BW, you could fuck up and they would look the other way, but ruffling feathers wasn't a path to being liked.  I had a buddy for example who failed the carbine qual, and made a joke about I guess I was just nervous and looking at his dick- a reference to all his rounds being low, and the instructors liked the joke and let him reshoot again and he passed.

Three of the guys from my Army sniper course worked with me at TC.  It's funny how small of a community it is when you are doing high threat work.  

I like how that buys you less than people who never did anything, because the world is all woke and fucked up though.

The only reason I brought it up, is that someone pulled Dugan Ashley out and acted like he was a saint for being a veteran and slandering us.  I'm just saying so am I, so is the other partner here.  It is important to keep the thing in context, I didn't say buy my shit because I'm a veteran, I just said that's a non point on the Dugan Ashley being a veteran point. My personal experience of this forum is more that people treat veterans like shit here on purpose, and make constant attacks on them just for the hell of it.  The only time a veteran is good, is when he attacked someone that the other people want attacked.

I have known some great natured and poor charactered veterans.  One of our ROTC cadets came home from the 2009-2010 deployment and got drunk at re-integration phase one training at a hotel, and used some training he received from SF to hot wire a car he didn't own, drive it drunk, smash it into a house and then assaulted police officers who responded to the scene.  He also got a free pass on those like 3+ felonies because the people decided to be nice to the returned veteran.  He might even be an Army officer now.

We were ashamed of his behavior.  I felt he probably used up some grace the locality had for someone else who might have a more serious PTSD issue and need a break.  But I guess that's me suggesting he didn't have one, but I guess I'd like to think people can be resilient. I didn't think that second tour was very tough on the guys.

Good point.  Not much at all.  They aren't domain names.  They are search terms- redirects. The actual domain names are all owned by the companies.  If they wanted search terms they cost like $18 per year each.

There was a point when the AR industry was doing terribly and everyone was getting into silencers and if there are 200+ brands, you begin to worry about becoming a needle in a haystack of needles at a point.  Silencerco employees have created at least four companies [DA, Rugged, gunworx, kg made], (Im probably missing several more).  Kevin started AAC, Sig and Q, Gemtech’s sale created Maxim and forced GSL to sell direct, and started CMMG which appears to be a GSL oem product. Thats three new companies fracturing from one.  This starts to look like every five years there will be four times as many companies in the market.

Strong companies make excellent products.  Strong companies are built over decades of time and dedicated effort. Laypeople on the street aren’t subject matter experts so they are likely to buy whatever product they see.

When Doug Olson made the M4QD, he had been involved with silencers for like 27 years from Crane to Qualatech, to AWC, to KAC, where it seems he did some of his best work.  Great things don’t happen as fast as one would generally expect them to.

I have bought maybe 23 1911’s in my life.  A few great pistols, a lot of awful performing generic brand guns. The last one I bought was a Colt xse govt (a standard gun).  The idea of a bunch of dedicated people making a great product is something I hope continues far into the future.  That gun I adjusted the combination spring to drop the trigger weight to 3.25 lbs, and on the first range trip it put 4 rounds of Winchester white box into 2” at 25yds standing unsupported- dead center of the target.  That was a rewarding experience.

I appreciate that.