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Posted: 9/7/2023 12:12:54 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Findsman]
[#1]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MAKAK47: Does the new ambi-safety dig into your hand/trigger finger on your dominant hand, much like the scorpion or is there clearance? With the safety flipped to fire, stock BCM grip, I've got just under a half-inch of clearance between the bottom edge of the safety and the top of my thumb. No contact at all. Yes, I have a Scorpion that I swapped the safeties out on so I know exactly what you refer to. That was a bad design.  ETA - Did a quick field strip. Don't want to do a complete pull-down like I did when removing the barrel from the 16". Probably not putting a 51T mount on the 20" this time.   Attached FileOnly real difference is the safety. Anything else is a camera perspective.  Attached FileBarrel profiles under the handguards are identical. Same gas block, same gas system.  Attached FileBolt groups are identical. Stock assemblies are identical. The new safety and the longer barrel seem to be the only differences. The safety is a big improvement over the original, unfortunate that Manticore's first VHS/Hellion product got upstaged by a factory fix/change.  Trigger feels the same between the two as well. Handling-wise, the 16" is definitely more maneuverable given that it has 4" less barrel hanging out the front. The Holosun is also a little faster to acquire. Weight difference is fairly inconsequential, I think the micro-prism messes with that more than anything else. I think the 16" will be a better choice if you're going to hang a suppressor off the end since it'll bring that weight closer in.Overall hand-wavy thoughts; the 16" is better for a CQB gun, excellent with a red dot, probably better to run with a suppressor. The 20" makes for an interesting more DMR-like configuration. Also, if you played Far Cry 5/6, it's the version that appeared in those games.  I think it would function fine with a red dot and forward grip as well, you'll just be more likely to bang the barrel into things.
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USA
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Posted: 9/7/2023 1:33:43 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Findsman: With the safety flipped to fire, stock BCM grip, I've got just under a half-inch of clearance between the bottom edge of the safety and the top of my thumb. No contact at all. Yes, I have a Scorpion that I swapped the safeties out on so I know exactly what you refer to. That was a bad design. ETA - Did a quick field strip. Don't want to do a complete pull-down like I did when removing the barrel from the 16". Probably not putting a 51T mount on the 20" this time. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/35747/VHS_16_vs_20_JPG-2945672.JPG Only real difference is the safety. Anything else is a camera perspective. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/35747/VHS_barrel_profiles_JPG-2945673.JPG Barrel profiles under the handguards are identical. Same gas block, same gas system. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/35747/VHS_bolt_groups_JPG-2945674.JPG Bolt groups are identical. Stock assemblies are identical. The new safety and the longer barrel seem to be the only differences. The safety is a big improvement over the original, unfortunate that Manticore's first VHS/Hellion product got upstaged by a factory fix/change. Trigger feels the same between the two as well. Handling-wise, the 16" is definitely more maneuverable given that it has 4" less barrel hanging out the front. The Holosun is also a little faster to acquire. Weight difference is fairly inconsequential, I think the micro-prism messes with that more than anything else. I think the 16" will be a better choice if you're going to hang a suppressor off the end since it'll bring that weight closer in.Overall hand-wavy thoughts; the 16" is better for a CQB gun, excellent with a red dot, probably better to run with a suppressor. The 20" makes for an interesting more DMR-like configuration. Also, if you played Far Cry 5/6, it's the version that appeared in those games. I think it would function fine with a red dot and forward grip as well, you'll just be more likely to bang the barrel into things.Excellent write up, much appreciated! Glad to know the safety doesn’t dig in, I was worried about it |
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VA, USA
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Posted: 9/7/2023 4:56:32 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Karter14171]
[#3]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Findsman: I'll be honest, I'm not entirely blown away by it yet. Mostly just larping around the house so far though.  Since it's a micro-prism, there's a definitely tradeoff in the optic brightness. Small objective lens, kinda dim if there's not good backlighting. It does sit at the right eye level with the mount configured at its lowest, at least for me. I've been bumping it forward/backward a slot on the rail trying to hit the exact eye relief. I have it two forward from when I took the pic and it seems okay. I went with the Aurora 5.56/.308 reticle and I think it was the right choice for me. I'm not military-trained so mildot reticles are dark magic to me. I like the Aurora design that comes in the 5x more than the Raptor in the 3x.So that's probably not quite the stellar endorsement you were hoping for. Some of it might be on me to accept the tradeoffs the micro-prism has for the size/weight reduction; I have a bunch of the "full-size" prisms from PA that I've liked and the optical clarity of a real ACOG is even a step above those but you pay for that. Maybe as I play with it more outside it'll shine. I'll try to get some comparison pics between the 16/20 today. The safety is the only overt difference I can really see aside from the barrel length. I put an A1 grip on the 16" version, seems like the angle works better with the goofy safety lever. I don't feel as compelled to swap the BCM grip on the 20" with the new safety, seems fairly easily to operate. ETA - Moved pics to page 11, at the top. Awesome info, thanks for sharing it. You're right that it wasn't the endorsement I was hoping for but I'd rather that than fork out a bunch of dough for an optic that is meh on the platform. Maybe go with a LPVO when I get my hands on a 20". |
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VA, USA
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Posted: 9/8/2023 6:56:45 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Karter14171]
[#4]
What WML setups are folks running on their hellion?
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Posted: 9/8/2023 7:07:12 PM EDT
[#5]
Finally was able to play with the new 20". Already replaced the grip with something that looks more appropriate, and tossed a 4x Elcan on it. I like it.
 IMG_4042 by MajorLeagueHooker, on Flickr
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MI, USA
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Posted: 9/9/2023 7:31:48 AM EDT
[#6]
What pistol grip is this? Looks very good
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Posted: 9/9/2023 7:45:41 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By unrock: What pistol grip is this? Looks very good https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1024427485?pid=163610 |
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Posted: 9/9/2023 10:34:21 AM EDT
[#8]
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PA, USA
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Posted: 9/9/2023 11:49:04 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Scrapple]
[#9]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Karter14171: What WML setups are folks running on their hellion?   I think that this setup is pretty much perfect. Surefire M640 Pro with ST07 switch. As you can see, the tape switch is pretty tight, but it just barely reaches. Also, the BG18 grip is pretty much perfect for this rifle, and the style of backstrap does really improve the reach to the old style safety. |
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Posted: 9/9/2023 2:51:39 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CFII: Finally was able to play with the new 20". Already replaced the grip with something that looks more appropriate, and tossed a 4x Elcan on it. I like it. https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53174217885_0e3dd8cdd3_b.jpgIMG_4042 by MajorLeagueHooker, on Flickr What grip is it so I can have it ready for mine when I get it… |
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VA, USA
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Posted: 9/9/2023 2:57:02 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Scrapple: https://i.ibb.co/f0ZhK16/20230909-114545.jpg https://i.ibb.co/72B9RRx/20230909-114558.jpg I think that this setup is pretty much perfect. Surefire M640 Pro with ST07 switch. As you can see, the tape switch is pretty tight, but it just barely reaches. Also, the BG18 grip is pretty much perfect for this rifle, and the style of backstrap does really improve the reach to the old style safety. Yeah that looks pretty darn good. |
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Posted: 9/9/2023 4:08:27 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Watch_this71: What grip is it so I can have it ready for mine when I get it… Its actually a Wilson Combat. https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1024427485?pid=163610 |
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Posted: 9/9/2023 4:47:31 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Scrapple: https://i.ibb.co/f0ZhK16/20230909-114545.jpg https://i.ibb.co/72B9RRx/20230909-114558.jpg I think that this setup is pretty much perfect. Surefire M640 Pro with ST07 switch. As you can see, the tape switch is pretty tight, but it just barely reaches. Also, the BG18 grip is pretty much perfect for this rifle, and the style of backstrap does really improve the reach to the old style safety. Is the remote switch cable in any danger of contact w/a hot bbl? |
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PA, USA
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Posted: 9/9/2023 9:19:29 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Scrapple]
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Tomac: Is the remote switch cable in any danger of contact w/a hot bbl? No, it's held far away from the barrel by the handguard. |
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Posted: 9/10/2023 9:39:04 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Scrapple: No, it's held far away from the barrel by the handguard. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Scrapple: Originally Posted By Tomac: Is the remote switch cable in any danger of contact w/a hot bbl? No, it's held far away from the barrel by the handguard.  |
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PA, USA
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Posted: 9/10/2023 3:37:38 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Tomac: The key is to thread the ST07 wiring as I did, through the handguard vents. |
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AZ, USA
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Posted: 9/11/2023 12:17:47 PM EDT
[#17]
Is there any word on if Springfield plans to sell replacement barrels? It'd be nice to pick up a 20" spare barrel for my 16" since barrel removal is easy enough.
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Posted: 9/11/2023 8:24:50 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BMA: Is there any word on if Springfield plans to sell replacement barrels? It'd be nice to pick up a 20" spare barrel for my 16" since barrel removal is easy enough. |
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NV, USA
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Posted: 9/11/2023 11:18:24 PM EDT
[#19]
Is there any recoil / "smoothness" difference between the 16" vs 20"?
Wondering if the 20" is more gassed due to the longer barrel but equal distance gas block. |
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USA
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Posted: 9/12/2023 5:00:33 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By spydercomonkey: Is there any recoil / "smoothness" difference between the 16" vs 20"? Wondering if the 20" is more gassed due to the longer barrel but equal distance gas block. Based on vids I’ve seen online it seems the gasblock is adjusted accordingly with the barrel length and it shoots very smooth in the 20” configuration |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 9/15/2023 12:52:11 AM EDT
[#21]
Anyone know if they’ll start shipping the newer style of safety lever on the 16s or only the 20s?
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Posted: 9/15/2023 7:36:51 AM EDT
[#22]
Gret question 'Aces!
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Posted: 9/15/2023 9:50:38 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Pair_of_ACES: Anyone know if they’ll start shipping the newer style of safety lever on the 16s or only the 20s? Yes. |
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Posted: 9/16/2023 8:24:43 PM EDT
[#24]
I wish we could get the mag wells that accept G36 mags.
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Posted: 9/17/2023 7:35:10 PM EDT
[#25]
Ordered a pair of the Wilson Combat grips and swapped them onto my VHSs. Quite nice, grip angle works pretty well. They look decently like the HS factory grips.
Went through Brownells since I have Edge and the grips were $20-ish each. https://www.brownells.com/gun-parts/rifle-parts/rifle-grips/wilson-combat-ar-platform-pistol-grip/?sku=430101505 Good find on these! |
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USA
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Posted: 9/17/2023 8:01:06 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Findsman: Ordered a pair of the Wilson Combat grips and swapped them onto my VHSs. Quite nice, grip angle works pretty well. They look decently like the HS factory grips. Went through Brownells since I have Edge and the grips were $20-ish each. https://www.brownells.com/gun-parts/rifle-parts/rifle-grips/wilson-combat-ar-platform-pistol-grip/?sku=430101505 Good find on these! I’m really thinking of getting one, who makes it for them? |
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Posted: 9/17/2023 8:25:23 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Findsman: Ordered a pair of the Wilson Combat grips and swapped them onto my VHSs. Quite nice, grip angle works pretty well. They look decently like the HS factory grips. Went through Brownells since I have Edge and the grips were $20-ish each. https://www.brownells.com/gun-parts/rifle-parts/rifle-grips/wilson-combat-ar-platform-pistol-grip/?sku=430101505 Good find on these! Glad you like them as well. I really like the way it looks on my VHS. Much better than the stock grip. |
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Posted: 9/18/2023 12:46:39 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 13th_Warrior: I wish we could get the mag wells that accept G36 mags. It's just a piece of plastic. Why don't you print em? |
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Posted: 9/18/2023 9:41:57 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Findsman: Bayonet lug doesn't seem to fit an OKC-3S, M-7B, or an ancient M-7 so I'm guessing that lug is specific to the $300 German bayonet. Went with a PA micro 5x with one of the PSA daily deal Truglo mini reflexes on top. Eye relief is pretty spot on, height is correct. Might not have purchased the original 16" had I known the 20" was coming. Oh well, can never have too many. What'll really hurt is if Springfield releases them in FDE or ODG....And that prismatic setup looks nice, thanks for your evaluation. And I might also be in for some hurt if they come out in FDE. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 9/18/2023 1:13:02 PM EDT
[#30]
 Just want to show how the KCB77-M1L (L for long blade) fits fine on my Hellion 20". The M7 fits fine as well. I don't have a M9 bayonet. Figure it will fit all other NATO pattern bayonet. |
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Posted: 9/18/2023 2:32:52 PM EDT
[#31]
Man the 20" Hellion looks so good. Most likely my next rifle.
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USA
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Posted: 9/18/2023 2:34:25 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By kiddsf: https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53197070803_3d4e442f92_o.jpg Just want to show how the KCB77-M1L (L for long blade) fits fine on my Hellion 20". The M7 fits fine as well. I don't have a M9 bayonet. Figure it will fit all other NATO pattern bayonet. That looks awesome! |
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USA
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Posted: 9/18/2023 3:40:21 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By vectorsc: Id say it depends on if the barrel was made in Croatia or here. If croatia = importing barrels is hard if I remember right. I asked Springfield already, they said no plans for barrel assembly yet. only complete rifles with 18-20". |
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OH, USA
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Posted: 9/19/2023 5:00:39 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ChengSMGT: I do. Don't have any problems. Sleeve length for me is 35". That's one of the things that really makes me want to mess with one of these. I'm in the same boat with long arms so this thing looks like it would be sweet |
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USA
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Posted: 9/21/2023 6:45:33 PM EDT
[#35]
See if a local range to you has one. That's what I did, my local Range USA had one on the wall so I rented that bad boy. It needed lubrication badly but I was able to look past that. Functionality otherwise was good.
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VA, USA
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Posted: 9/21/2023 7:01:08 PM EDT
[#36]
Manticore guys - you have anything more up your sleeve as far as upgrades go?
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Posted: 9/21/2023 8:30:32 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Karter14171: Manticore guys - you have anything more up your sleeve as far as upgrades go? Next upgrade is in the final stages of production, and will launch as soon as we are in iir new South Carolina shop in November. Sven Manticore Arms |
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Posted: 9/22/2023 12:00:51 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Manticore_Arms: Next upgrade is in the final stages of production, and will launch as soon as we are in iir new South Carolina shop in November. Sven Manticore Arms I’m positive I already know the answer to this question, but would you care to give us an idea of what you’ve got coming? |
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VA, USA
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Posted: 9/22/2023 2:14:22 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Manticore_Arms: Next upgrade is in the final stages of production, and will launch as soon as we are in iir new South Carolina shop in November. Sven Manticore Arms Excellent. Looking forward to it! |
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Posted: 9/24/2023 2:24:50 AM EDT
[#40]
Anyone else hoping that it'll be an upgraded trigger?
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Posted: 9/24/2023 2:25:16 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By spork: Anyone else hoping that it'll be an upgraded trigger? magwell |
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VA, USA
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Posted: 9/25/2023 9:55:04 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By spork: Anyone else hoping that it'll be an upgraded trigger? +1 here. A magwell would be cool too but the trigger is the biggest pain point on the rifle as a whole that I can find. |
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USA
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Posted: 9/26/2023 12:08:55 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Karter14171: +1 here. A magwell would be cool too but the trigger is the biggest pain point on the rifle as a whole that I can find. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Karter14171: Originally Posted By spork: Anyone else hoping that it'll be an upgraded trigger? +1 here. A magwell would be cool too but the trigger is the biggest pain point on the rifle as a whole that I can find. Yep, a lighter pull and shorter travel is really needed for these triggers. |
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Posted: 9/30/2023 3:07:12 PM EDT
[#44]
Got my 20” out to the range very briefly…just enough to call it zeroed and shoot a couple groups. Time was tight, so it was about a continuous string of fire.
Trijicon 1-4 accupoint for an optic My initial impression is that this will be a very good shooter.  eHellions are replacing ars in my fleet. The 20” will be my DMR.  Attached File |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 10/1/2023 10:00:24 PM EDT
[#45]
I've been back and forth on the Hellion for a while - the only notable 'cons' that I keep reading about are non issues for me. The safety has been fixed on the new guns, and the LOP is no problem for my 6ft 3in frame.
BUT I saw a review by 'HONEST OUTLAW' on youtube where he states he had multiple QD slings pop out of multiple QD sockets on the Hellion. That's disconcerting, has anyone else had this issue? He seems like a no-fluff/drama kind of reviewer so I figured it was legitimate enough to ask about. Experiences? |
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PA, USA
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Posted: 10/1/2023 11:25:17 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Pair_of_ACES: I've been back and forth on the Hellion for a while - the only notable 'cons' that I keep reading about are non issues for me. The safety has been fixed on the new guns, and the LOP is no problem for my 6ft 3in frame. BUT I saw a review by 'HONEST OUTLAW' on youtube where he states he had multiple QD slings pop out of multiple QD sockets on the Hellion. That's disconcerting, has anyone else had this issue? He seems like a no-fluff/drama kind of reviewer so I figured it was legitimate enough to ask about. Experiences? I have not had that issue. I only use blue force gear swivels, but they work just fine. I hate 360° rotational sockets, so I used epoxy in certain spots within the channel inside the socket to make them anti-rotational. I've done that to several rifles, and it works out pretty well. But as far as sling swivels popping out, that has not happened to me. |
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AZ, USA
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Posted: 10/2/2023 1:48:30 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Kisara]
[#47]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Scrapple: I hate 360° rotational sockets That's my biggest gripe with the gun, even more so than the safety or trigger. I've tried a Ferro Slinger, BFG Vickers, and a BFG single point that has a little bungee. I'm not a fan of single points but it's the only sling that isn't constantly getting twisted up. I'll have to try your epoxy trick. What brand did you use, got any photos of the socket after the modification? |
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CO, USA
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Posted: 10/2/2023 8:40:22 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Pair_of_ACES: I've been back and forth on the Hellion for a while - the only notable 'cons' that I keep reading about are non issues for me. The safety has been fixed on the new guns, and the LOP is no problem for my 6ft 3in frame. BUT I saw a review by 'HONEST OUTLAW' on youtube where he states he had multiple QD slings pop out of multiple QD sockets on the Hellion. That's disconcerting, has anyone else had this issue? He seems like a no-fluff/drama kind of reviewer so I figured it was legitimate enough to ask about. Experiences? Mine had this issue. One of the first guns to hit the market. I just tried various QD sockets off of my other guns until I found one that would stay. Couldn't tell you the brand though. Maybe they've fixed it in more recent models? |
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Posted: 10/2/2023 9:16:03 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TheRat: Mine had this issue. One of the first guns to hit the market. I just tried various QD sockets off of my other guns until I found one that would stay. Couldn't tell you the brand though. Maybe they've fixed it in more recent models? My (Army) brother has this issue and he actually bought a piece of Mlok rail, cut it down with a Dremel and mounted a Magpul QD adapter as a “fix” so he could run it. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 10/2/2023 11:06:33 AM EDT
[#50]
There are also hard mounting points/eyelets aren’t there? I hate to NOT use the QD points but if they’re questionable…
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