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USA
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Posted: 6/13/2023 11:47:40 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By thehun06: They are 100K+ in service in Iraq ... so this is not a surprise that the bad dudes are getting their hands on the VHS .. Same in Africa, Cameroon rapid reaction Brigades heavily utilize VHS-2’s, and through combat, possibly corruption, these are ending up in the hands of Boko Haram, Al Shabaab or even Ambazonian rebels |
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WA, USA
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Posted: 6/14/2023 11:40:56 AM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MAKAK47: Same in Africa, Cameroon rapid reaction Brigades heavily utilize VHS-2’s, and through combat, possibly corruption, these are ending up in the hands of Boko Haram, Al Shabaab or even Ambazonian rebels I'd wouldn't be surprised if a non-trivial percentage of the Iraqi VHSs wound up in Africa and southeast Asia. |
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USA
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Posted: 6/14/2023 4:38:43 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Armed_Scientist: I'd wouldn't be surprised if a non-trivial percentage of the Iraqi VHSs wound up in Africa and southeast Asia. I don’t think they are Iraqi, Cameroon’s BIR seems to acquire lots of 5.56 rifles, they are using Galil ACE 21’s and 23’s, Zastava M21’s, Tavors and Negev LMG’s |
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Posted: 6/17/2023 1:40:12 PM EDT
[#4]
Joining the party. Had a Tavor SAR years ago that I traded off, back into the bullpup game…
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Posted: 6/17/2023 6:51:58 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Manticore_Arms]
[#5]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DevilDog0402: @Manticore_Arms /media/mediaFiles/sharedAlbum/F09DE067-47F9-4C4C-934C-223722121019-480.gif ...patiently of course  Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DevilDog0402: Originally Posted By Karter14171: Any updates on this? Still looking at within another month or so? Eager to see what you guys have come up with! /media/mediaFiles/sharedAlbum/F09DE067-47F9-4C4C-934C-223722121019-480.gif ...patiently of course Parts are in progress. We had a few delays as I wanted to refine some parts for better function after extensive testing, but our first aftermarket upgrade should, if everything goes to plan from this point on, launch in about 60 days. As I said before, no hints on what we are making, we no longer post preproduction info on public forums- I learned that lesson the hard way a few years ago when we had something "almost ready" to launch, and then a subcontractor dropped the ball badly, and in the meantime another company knocked off what they saw in a photo and beat us to market with our own product idea. it cost us a lot of money and sales, and I will not be making that mistake again. FWIW, I have disassembled and reassembled a Hellion so much in the last years I can do the entire process in about 5 minutes now.  Sven Manticore Arms. |
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MO, USA
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Posted: 6/17/2023 10:24:36 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Manticore_Arms: FWIW, I have disassembled and reassembled a Hellion so much in the last years I can do the entire process in about 5 minutes now. To be fair, I haven't encountered a platform as straight-forward for break-down in some time, it beats the pants off almost everything I own by a long shot, and it's especially balanced for reassembly versus disassembly unlike some platforms I'm sure we all could name. Look forward to seeing what you come out with though! |
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USA
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Posted: 6/17/2023 11:24:46 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Manticore_Arms: Parts are in progress. We had a few delays as I wanted to refine some parts for better function after extensive testing, but our first aftermarket upgrade should, if everything goes to plan from this point on, launch in about 60 days. As I said before, no hints on what we are making, we no longer post preproduction info on public forums- I learned that lesson the hard way a few years ago when we had something "almost ready" to launch, and then a subcontractor dropped the ball badly, and in the meantime another company knocked off what they saw in a photo and beat us to market with our own product idea. it cost us a lot of money and sales, and I will not be making that mistake again. FWIW, I have disassembled and reassembled a Hellion so much in the last years I can do the entire process in about 5 minutes now. Sven Manticore Arms. Man that really sucks, another manufacturer said something similar once quite a few years back, they made a product but being a smaller shop a larger group saw it and got to market quicker So far in the VHS-2 space there seems to be no one that wants to play ball except for you guys and whoever did that weird adjustable stock removal thing |
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Posted: 6/18/2023 8:59:51 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Manticore_Arms: Parts are in progress. We had a few delays as I wanted to refine some parts for better function after extensive testing, but our first aftermarket upgrade should, if everything goes to plan from this point on, launch in about 60 days. As I said before, no hints on what we are making, we no longer post preproduction info on public forums- I learned that lesson the hard way a few years ago when we had something "almost ready" to launch, and then a subcontractor dropped the ball badly, and in the meantime another company knocked off what they saw in a photo and beat us to market with our own product idea. it cost us a lot of money and sales, and I will not be making that mistake again. FWIW, I have disassembled and reassembled a Hellion so much in the last years I can do the entire process in about 5 minutes now. Sven Manticore Arms. |
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Posted: 6/18/2023 4:12:46 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Seven-Shooter: I for one eagerly await your product announcements. Your buttpad for the Tavor changed the whole rifle dynamic and made it excel. If you do something similar (aftermarket product that changes the whole game) for the Hellion, I'll probably buy one and immediately order your product. Agreed with all above… |
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USA
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Posted: 6/20/2023 9:16:44 AM EDT
[#10]
Hellion only needs two improvements really:
1) Safety (workable as is but it could be greatly improved) 2) Mag Funnel (workable as is but it is a little narrow) Outside of that ... it doesn't need much ... |
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Posted: 6/20/2023 9:35:11 AM EDT
[#11]
I’m interested in getting one of these at some point. I am concerned about spare parts availability though. I did a search and can’t seem to find anything. Thinking specifically about piston parts, extractors, springs, ejector, bolt, barrels, etc. I sent a message to them asking about it so we’ll see what they say.
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PA, USA
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Posted: 6/20/2023 11:39:21 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Scrapple]
[#12]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By thehun06: Hellion only needs two improvements really: 1) Safety (workable as is but it could be greatly improved) 2) Mag Funnel (workable as is but it is a little narrow) Outside of that ... it doesn't need much ... I'd also like to see a shorter reset trigger and better system for bolt hold open/release. An improved handguard with a heatshield would be cool. Plus, it could have anti-rotational QD sockets. Same with the stock; I'm fine with the LOP, especially given the location of the cheek rest and ejection port, but a better stock could still be designed. It should have anti-rotational QD sockets as well. |
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Posted: 6/20/2023 1:33:41 PM EDT
[Last Edit: eodinert]
[#13]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By thehun06: Hellion only needs two improvements really: 1) Safety (workable as is but it could be greatly improved) 2) Mag Funnel (workable as is but it is a little narrow) Outside of that ... it doesn't need much ... I have no interest in either of those. It only needs an original military style grip, and magazine adapters for G36 magazines (or the original mag housing, if original mags are available). On the nice to have list, carry handle with optic, and original style barrel with bayonet lug. Actually, the only not original accessory I would consider is a non-collapsing stock that is as short as it is possible, as the adjustment feature is pointless. |
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Posted: 6/20/2023 2:09:19 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By eodinert: I have no interest in either of those. It only needs an original military style grip, and magazine adapters for G36 magazines (or the original mag housing, if original mags are available). On the nice to have list, carry handle with optic, and original style barrel with bayonet lug. Actually, the only not original accessory I would consider is a non-collapsing stock that is as short as it is possible, as the adjustment feature is pointless. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By eodinert: Originally Posted By thehun06: Hellion only needs two improvements really: 1) Safety (workable as is but it could be greatly improved) 2) Mag Funnel (workable as is but it is a little narrow) Outside of that ... it doesn't need much ... I have no interest in either of those. It only needs an original military style grip, and magazine adapters for G36 magazines (or the original mag housing, if original mags are available). On the nice to have list, carry handle with optic, and original style barrel with bayonet lug. Actually, the only not original accessory I would consider is a non-collapsing stock that is as short as it is possible, as the adjustment feature is pointless. Doesn't the adjustment feature bring the OAL to 26" for legal reasons? |
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USA
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Posted: 6/20/2023 2:20:29 PM EDT
[Last Edit: thehun06]
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By eodinert: I have no interest in either of those. It only needs an original military style grip, and magazine adapters for G36 magazines (or the original mag housing, if original mags are available). On the nice to have list, carry handle with optic, and original style barrel with bayonet lug. Actually, the only not original accessory I would consider is a non-collapsing stock that is as short as it is possible, as the adjustment feature is pointless. I could dig the G36 mags as well ... but face it ... AR mags rule this side of the pond ... Anything shorter than what it is not will not happen as it will bring the OAL to less than 26" = a NFA item at that point ... I wouldn't be surprised if the Croatians won't switch to a STANAG mag ... |
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Posted: 6/20/2023 6:04:38 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By eodinert: I have no interest in either of those. It only needs an original military style grip, and magazine adapters for G36 magazines (or the original mag housing, if original mags are available). On the nice to have list, carry handle with optic, and original style barrel with bayonet lug. Actually, the only not original accessory I would consider is a non-collapsing stock that is as short as it is possible, as the adjustment feature is pointless. Agree with all this. I'd like a VHS-2 but I want it as close to the military version as reasonably possible. Soon as that's available (if ever), I'm buying one. I wonder if an AUG mag adapter would be doable, that'd be pretty cool. |
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Posted: 6/20/2023 6:30:08 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Gripen: Agree with all this. I'd like a VHS-2 but I want it as close to the military version as reasonably possible. Soon as that's available (if ever), I'm buying one. I wonder if an AUG mag adapter would be doable, that'd be pretty cool. These two statements back to back are very confusing. If you want to encourage Springfield and other companies to continue to jump through the hoops required to import cool guns into the US, might be worth buying things like the Hellion when they come in even if they arent “as close to military version as possible except also it should take aug mags that the military version doesnt use”….. |
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Posted: 6/20/2023 6:32:29 PM EDT
[#18]
Back on topic, my aftermarket support list is pretty short. Top wish is a safety thats slightly easier to reach.
Trigger would be nice but stock isnt that awful. I get the wish for a magwell but its not like bullpup mag changes are any kind of quick anyway. So a better safety and I’m pretty happy as is. |
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Posted: 6/20/2023 10:14:41 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 74novaman: These two statements back to back are very confusing. If you want to encourage Springfield and other companies to continue to jump through the hoops required to import cool guns into the US, might be worth buying things like the Hellion when they come in even if they arent “as close to military version as possible except also it should take aug mags that the military version doesnt use”….. The VHS-2 has a modular mag well design, as I'm sure you're aware. There's nothing confusing about those two statements, I can want the military variant and I can think it'd be cool to offer an AUG mag well alongside AR, G36 and whatever else fits. If you want to buy the Hellion in its current form, go for it. Springfield isn't going to do anything based on what I want, that's for sure. |
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USA
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Posted: 6/21/2023 12:04:15 AM EDT
[#20]
How long did it take for aftermarket support to come out for Tavor’s and X95’s? This guy has been out for over a year and there’s little to nothing yet
My question isn’t rhetorical either I’m genuinely curious |
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Posted: 6/21/2023 10:21:35 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Manticore_Arms]
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MAKAK47: How long did it take for aftermarket support to come out for Tavor’s and X95’s? This guy has been out for over a year and there’s little to nothing yet My question isn’t rhetorical either I’m genuinely curious As far as I know, we were the first ones out with Tavor SAR and X95 aftermarket parts, both took around 6-9 months. That being said, the design of the SAR and X95 are vastly more straightforward than the way the Croatians designed things in the VHS/Hellion. It is a German engineer's dream and a designer's nightmare in how everything is assembled. That makes designing and manufacturing parts that can be installed by the consumer a complex endeavor, but we have cracked that nut. Aftermarket parts ARE in production, we are just waiting on the final components to get finished up. Sven Manticore Arms |
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VA, USA
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Posted: 6/21/2023 12:44:13 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Manticore_Arms: As far as I know, we were the first ones out with Tavor SAR and X95 aftermarket parts, both took around 6-9 months. That being said, the design of the SAR and X95 are vastly more straightforward than the way the Croatians designed things in the VHS/Hellion. It is a German engineer's dream and a designer's nightmare in how everything is assembled. That makes designing and manufacturing parts that can be installed by the consumer a complex endeavor, but we have cracked that nut. Aftermarket parts ARE in production, we are just waiting on the final components to get finished up. Sven Manticore Arms Looking forward to it! |
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USA
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Posted: 6/21/2023 8:16:33 PM EDT
[Last Edit: MAKAK47]
[#23]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Manticore_Arms: As far as I know, we were the first ones out with Tavor SAR and X95 aftermarket parts, both took around 6-9 months. That being said, the design of the SAR and X95 are vastly more straightforward than the way the Croatians designed things in the VHS/Hellion. It is a German engineer's dream and a designer's nightmare in how everything is assembled. That makes designing and manufacturing parts that can be installed by the consumer a complex endeavor, but we have cracked that nut. Aftermarket parts ARE in production, we are just waiting on the final components to get finished up. Sven Manticore Arms It makes sense that it’s a German engineer’s dream given that it damn near looks like a G36 in bullpup form But the modularity seems simple though, push pin parts off, put new parts on, push pins back in, rock and roll, clearly I am not an engineer so I appreciate the insights here |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 3:01:56 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By thehun06: Hellion only needs two improvements really: 1) Safety (workable as is but it could be greatly improved) 2) Mag Funnel (workable as is but it is a little narrow) Outside of that ... it doesn't need much ... 1) Redesigned safety lever 2) New trigger/trigger bar. Really just need less takeup, shorter reset, and remove some of the sponginess. That's it... |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 5:45:09 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Manticore_Arms]
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MAKAK47: It makes sense that it’s a German engineer’s dream given that it damn near looks like a G36 in bullpup form But the modularity seems simple though, push pin parts off, put new parts on, push pins back in, rock and roll, clearly I am not an engineer so I appreciate the insights here Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MAKAK47: Originally Posted By Manticore_Arms: As far as I know, we were the first ones out with Tavor SAR and X95 aftermarket parts, both took around 6-9 months. That being said, the design of the SAR and X95 are vastly more straightforward than the way the Croatians designed things in the VHS/Hellion. It is a German engineer's dream and a designer's nightmare in how everything is assembled. That makes designing and manufacturing parts that can be installed by the consumer a complex endeavor, but we have cracked that nut. Aftermarket parts ARE in production, we are just waiting on the final components to get finished up. Sven Manticore Arms It makes sense that it’s a German engineer’s dream given that it damn near looks like a G36 in bullpup form But the modularity seems simple though, push pin parts off, put new parts on, push pins back in, rock and roll, clearly I am not an engineer so I appreciate the insights here If you are referring to field stripping, yes, it is just simple push pines for the most part. If you are talking about anything deeper in stripping the gun down, there are hard to reach pins, weird little wire C clips and all sorts of other very tiny and annoying parts. IMHO it was designed by pure engineers and not reviewed by anyone who was worried about assembly processes or manufacturing efficiency, but that is just my take on it.  As an aside, beyond the charging handle and short stroke piston there isn't really anything G36 in the gun that I see. The bolt carrier group actually shares a bit of features with the Tavor SAR/X95 in my opinion. |
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NV, USA
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Posted: 6/22/2023 7:03:22 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Manticore_Arms: Aftermarket parts ARE in production, we are just waiting on the final components to get finished up. Sven Manticore Arms Awesome. 
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USA
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Posted: 6/22/2023 7:54:53 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DevilDog0402: All I want: 2) New trigger/trigger bar. Really just need less takeup, shorter reset, and remove some of the sponginess. That's it... This. A flat face trigger with a shorter take up and reset. I could live with the sponginess. A flared magazine well wouldn’t be bad either. |
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USA
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Posted: 6/22/2023 8:40:44 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Manticore_Arms: If you are referring to field stripping, yes, it is just simple push pines for the most part. If you are talking about anything deeper in stripping the gun down, there are hard to reach pins, weird little wire C clips and all sorts of other very tiny and annoying parts. IMHO it was designed by pure engineers and not reviewed by anyone who was worried about assembly processes or manufacturing efficiency, but that is just my take on it. As an aside, beyond the charging handle and short stroke piston there isn't really anything G36 in the gun that I see. The bolt carrier group actually shares a bit of features with the Tavor SAR/X95 in my opinion. I think the VHS-2 and G36 share the ability to push some pins, and swap out parts, like in the military version of the VHS-2, you can remove the handguard and install the grenade launcher and push the pins in and you’re good to go |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 9:23:03 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DevilDog0402: All I want: 1) Redesigned safety lever 2) New trigger/trigger bar. Really just need less takeup, shorter reset, and remove some of the sponginess. That's it... This ^ |
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USA
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Posted: 6/23/2023 10:22:48 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Gripen: Agree with all this. I'd like a VHS-2 but I want it as close to the military version as reasonably possible. Soon as that's available (if ever), I'm buying one. I wonder if an AUG mag adapter would be doable, that'd be pretty cool. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Gripen: Originally Posted By eodinert: I have no interest in either of those. It only needs an original military style grip, and magazine adapters for G36 magazines (or the original mag housing, if original mags are available). On the nice to have list, carry handle with optic, and original style barrel with bayonet lug. Actually, the only not original accessory I would consider is a non-collapsing stock that is as short as it is possible, as the adjustment feature is pointless. Agree with all this. I'd like a VHS-2 but I want it as close to the military version as reasonably possible. Soon as that's available (if ever), I'm buying one. I wonder if an AUG mag adapter would be doable, that'd be pretty cool. Only way to encourage that is if you buy a Hellion and help the numbers ... |
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VT, USA
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Posted: 6/23/2023 9:07:12 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By spork: This ^ Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By spork: Originally Posted By DevilDog0402: All I want: 1) Redesigned safety lever 2) New trigger/trigger bar. Really just need less takeup, shorter reset, and remove some of the sponginess. That's it... This ^ Yep |
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Posted: 6/24/2023 10:21:16 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Thor]
[#32]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Manticore_Arms: As far as I know, we were the first ones out with Tavor SAR and X95 aftermarket parts, both took around 6-9 months. That being said, the design of the SAR and X95 are vastly more straightforward than the way the Croatians designed things in the VHS/Hellion. It is a German engineer's dream and a designer's nightmare in how everything is assembled. That makes designing and manufacturing parts that can be installed by the consumer a complex endeavor, but we have cracked that nut. Aftermarket parts ARE in production, we are just waiting on the final components to get finished up. Sven Manticore Arms Little off topic but, when new rifles like this come out, do you do you have sources to get an armorer’s manual or do you just fiddle with it till it’s apart? My first experience with the VHS. Was a lot of “ok…do I force it, or am I missing something?” I was not expecting those pin retaining clips, and that safety roll pin took me a while to even notice because there was a gob of grease covering it! If I didn’t happen to peak around with a dentist mirror and see the other end of a pin I’d probably still be fighting it! Also surprised by parts that appear to be installed with no method of removal by basic tools or without destruction. Dust covers for example. Almost seemed like you’d have to drill into the polymer body to push the pin. Tell me I’m missing something. I really need to figure a way to gets those out! |
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MO, USA
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Posted: 6/25/2023 4:05:36 PM EDT
[Last Edit: WolfWings]
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By backbencher: Doesn't the adjustment feature bring the OAL to 26" for legal reasons? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By backbencher: Doesn't the adjustment feature bring the OAL to 26" for legal reasons? Nope, even with the flash hider removed it's still 26.25" long fully collapsed from end-of-barrel to end-of-stock, remove the adjustable stock piece entirely and it's still a hair over 26" since the adjustable part of the stock is just a thin shell over the recoil and guide-rod assembly. The 'fixed' stock replacement that ST Inc sells removes the lower wedge on the rear stock and is just a 1/4" thick minimal shell with some 1/8" ribbing on the back. I've got one and prefer it personally; less to snag on at the rear and sits more comfortably and repeatably against my shoulder. It makes it just the right size it gets right into my deltoid naturally for me. It's not for everyone, one friend can't stand it. When they shoulder most rifles it's the lower edge of the stock that's pressing into their shoulder, so without that lower wedge they suddenly have nothing to shoulder... and it ends up looking like they're trying to shoulder half an RPG instead of a rifle. Originally Posted By 74novaman: Back on topic, my aftermarket support list is pretty short. Top wish is a safety thats slightly easier to reach. Try changing the rifle grip, more grip angle will lift and rotate your thumb up where it can reach the safety a lot easier. It may be a gimmick, but pick up one of the multi-angle grips from Strike to figure out what grip angle works best for you. I don't leave it on any rifle I have, but I have one just to figure out what grip to get for each rifle I have. |
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VA, USA
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Posted: 7/1/2023 1:32:29 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Pomyluy: Agree with all this. I'd like a VHS-2 but I want it as close to the military version as reasonably possible. Soon as that's available (if ever), I'm buying one. I wonder if an AUG mag adapter would be doable, that'd be pretty cool. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Pomyluy: Originally Posted By eodinert: I have no interest in either of those. It only needs an original military style grip, and magazine adapters for G36 magazines (or the original mag housing, if original mags are available). On the nice to have list, carry handle with optic, and original style barrel with bayonet lug. Actually, the only not original accessory I would consider is a non-collapsing stock that is as short as it is possible, as the adjustment feature is pointless. Agree with all this. I'd like a VHS-2 but I want it as close to the military version as reasonably possible. Soon as that's available (if ever), I'm buying one. I wonder if an AUG mag adapter would be doable, that'd be pretty cool. AUG magwell would be tits, there's no better polymer magazine design on the market, and Magpul's version is practically indestructible. I always thought newer rifles should've standardized on the dimensions of the AUG mag, rather than the AR15's. Even the G36 is a better parent design for a polymer magazine. |
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USA
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Posted: 7/1/2023 7:28:10 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Kisara]
[#35]
Don’t forget, Magpul also makes magazines for the G36.
I hate the rotational QD sockets; My Hellion sling is always getting tangled up. |
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PA, USA
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Posted: 7/2/2023 8:24:28 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Kisara: I hate the rotational QD sockets; My Hellion sling is always getting tangled up. Yeah, it drives me nuts. Hopefully there's a solution for that soon, otherwise I'm going to use some epoxy to block the channel and make it anti-rotational, similar to what I did with my LMT MRP uppers. |
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Posted: 7/2/2023 10:46:51 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By rb889: AUG magwell would be tits, there's no better polymer magazine design on the market, and Magpul's version is practically indestructible. I always thought newer rifles should've standardized on the dimensions of the AUG mag, rather than the AR15's. Even the G36 is a better parent design for a polymer magazine. I have some of the magpul Aug and g36 mags. They are pretty good and a lot slimmer in the potluck. Both options would be cool. |
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OK, USA
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Posted: 7/2/2023 12:29:51 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Pomyluy: Agree with all this. I'd like a VHS-2 but I want it as close to the military version as reasonably possible. Soon as that's available (if ever), I'm buying one. I wonder if an AUG mag adapter would be doable, that'd be pretty cool. I'll chime in since you touched a personal nerve of mine. WHY couldn't it have been a 1:1 semi only replica? Looking at photos of the VHS-2 with integrated sight, I could not wait to buy one. As they are configured, I actually don't even want one. Same disappointment as when SIG was coming out with the 550 series rifles which turned out to be an abomination. It should be the standard that when a company produces a civilian version of a military firearm, it should be as close as possible to that firearm. If they are able, they should make an A and B type. A is the pure clone, and B they are free to go nuts with and add rails everywhere and folding, collapsible everything. If they are only able to make one, make type A. I have read that even if you somehow acquired the original parts, they won't attach. Which would you choose?  
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Posted: 7/2/2023 1:27:43 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Kwisak]
[#39]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Dustyattic: I'll chime in since you touched a personal nerve of mine. WHY couldn't it have been a 1:1 semi only replica? Looking at photos of the VHS-2 with integrated sight, I could not wait to buy one. As they are configured, I actually don't even want one. Same disappointment as when SIG was coming out with the 550 series rifles which turned out to be an abomination. It should be the standard that when a company produces a civilian version of a military firearm, it should be as close as possible to that firearm. If they are able, they should make an A and B type. A is the pure clone, and B they are free to go nuts with and add rails everywhere and folding, collapsible everything. If they are only able to make one, make type A. I have read that even if you somehow acquired the original parts, they won't attach. Which would you choose? https://modernfirearms.net/userfiles/images/assault/cr/1450507920.jpg https://palmettostatearmory.com/media/catalog/product/cache/7af8331bf1196ca28793bd1e8f6ecc7b/s/p/springfield-hellion-5-56x45-bullpup-rifle_-black.jpg The one we got, although I would like the clone or the accessories for the clone available. If I could only have one, it would be the one we have. Main reason is it is a better rifle. If you want a clone, then it sucks, but if you want a good rifle that could work well with existing equipment and maybe be your go to rifle, then it’s an easy choice. The one we got is a better rifle. |
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Posted: 7/2/2023 3:35:54 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Dustyattic: I'll chime in since you touched a personal nerve of mine. WHY couldn't it have been a 1:1 semi only replica? Looking at photos of the VHS-2 with integrated sight, I could not wait to buy one. As they are configured, I actually don't even want one. Same disappointment as when SIG was coming out with the 550 series rifles which turned out to be an abomination. It should be the standard that when a company produces a civilian version of a military firearm, it should be as close as possible to that firearm. If they are able, they should make an A and B type. A is the pure clone, and B they are free to go nuts with and add rails everywhere and folding, collapsible everything. If they are only able to make one, make type A. I have read that even if you somehow acquired the original parts, they won't attach. Which would you choose? https://modernfirearms.net/userfiles/images/assault/cr/1450507920.jpg https://palmettostatearmory.com/media/catalog/product/cache/7af8331bf1196ca28793bd1e8f6ecc7b/s/p/springfield-hellion-5-56x45-bullpup-rifle_-black.jpg I agree. I’d much prefer accurate clones of foreign rifles. For pure functionality I’ve got a nice AR setup. I think the cool factor is in how different various designs are. |
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Posted: 7/2/2023 7:52:35 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Thor]
[#41]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Dustyattic: I'll chime in since you touched a personal nerve of mine. WHY couldn't it have been a 1:1 semi only replica? Looking at photos of the VHS-2 with integrated sight, I could not wait to buy one. As they are configured, I actually don't even want one. Same disappointment as when SIG was coming out with the 550 series rifles which turned out to be an abomination. It should be the standard that when a company produces a civilian version of a military firearm, it should be as close as possible to that firearm. If they are able, they should make an A and B type. A is the pure clone, and B they are free to go nuts with and add rails everywhere and folding, collapsible everything. If they are only able to make one, make type A. I have read that even if you somehow acquired the original parts, they won't attach. Which would you choose? https://modernfirearms.net/userfiles/images/assault/cr/1450507920.jpg https://palmettostatearmory.com/media/catalog/product/cache/7af8331bf1196ca28793bd1e8f6ecc7b/s/p/springfield-hellion-5-56x45-bullpup-rifle_-black.jpg The integrated sight was just one of the options of the VHS-2. They didn’t all have them. From a marketing standpoint, integrated optic version is the worst one to import as a lot of people would ignore it due to being stuck with that optic. Passible in the 80s with the Aug, but optic offerings today make not having a rail pretty dumb. It would be neat if they offered something in the future. I understand the “cool” factor 100%. Also, isn’t the Hellion just based on the new generation of the VHS-2 and the integrated optic version is no longer being made? I thought I saw them on display in Croatia as well with the AR grip. |
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VA, USA
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Posted: 7/3/2023 2:19:27 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Thor: The integrated sight was just one of the options of the VHS-2. They didn’t all have them. From a marketing standpoint, integrated optic version is the worst one to import as a lot of people would ignore it due to being stuck with that optic. Passible in the 80s with the Aug, but optic offerings today make not having a rail pretty dumb. It would be neat if they offered something in the future. I understand the “cool” factor 100%. Also, isn’t the Hellion just based on the new generation of the VHS-2 and the integrated optic version is no longer being made? I thought I saw them on display in Croatia as well with the AR grip. I agree 100%. I will say, that I too always prefer that civi semi guns be exactly or as close to the military versions. The Hellion, or what HS Produkt calls the VHS2S ( https://hs-produkt.hr/semi-automatic-rifles/vhs2s ) is the semi version of the https://hs-produkt.hr/military-led/vhs-k2 of the VHS-K2. Of course it has some differences (forend, magwell, grip, etc) that were made for the US market. I like authenticity. But the changes they made were probably a smart decision overall for this market. And I too would love an optic version of the VHS sometime. |
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PA, USA
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Posted: 7/3/2023 11:18:01 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Scrapple]
[#43]
The version that we got is, in fact, a great clone of the later military rifle, as shown above. The only changes really are AR magazine compatibility, AR grip compatibility, and MLOK forend compatibility. All very simple and significant improvements.
We definitely got the better rifle. |
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Posted: 7/3/2023 11:42:09 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Scrapple: The version that we got is, in fact, a great clone of the later military rifle, as shown above. The only changes really are AR magazine compatibility, AR grip compatibility, and MLOK forend compatibility. All very simple and significant improvements. We definitely got the better rifle. Agreed. The Sig USA 556/Classic Sig 55X is completely different than the Hellion/VHS comparison too. The 556 just borrowed the name. The hellion is a vhs, even if its not the exact niche one you wanted. |
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USA
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Posted: 7/3/2023 7:50:39 PM EDT
[#45]
I just want some damned aftermarket support already
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TX, USA
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Posted: 7/3/2023 10:29:17 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Jack_Flag: I agree 100%. I will say, that I too always prefer that civi semi guns be exactly or as close to the military versions. The Hellion, or what HS Produkt calls the VHS2S ( https://hs-produkt.hr/semi-automatic-rifles/vhs2s ) is the semi version of the https://hs-produkt.hr/military-led/vhs-k2 of the VHS-K2. Of course it has some differences (forend, magwell, grip, etc) that were made for the US market. I like authenticity. But the changes they made were probably a smart decision overall for this market. And I too would love an optic version of the VHS sometime. |
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Posted: 7/4/2023 12:05:09 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By mcantu: I just wish they would have kept the grooved barrel Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By mcantu: Originally Posted By Jack_Flag: I agree 100%. I will say, that I too always prefer that civi semi guns be exactly or as close to the military versions. The Hellion, or what HS Produkt calls the VHS2S ( https://hs-produkt.hr/semi-automatic-rifles/vhs2s ) is the semi version of the https://hs-produkt.hr/military-led/vhs-k2 of the VHS-K2. Of course it has some differences (forend, magwell, grip, etc) that were made for the US market. I like authenticity. But the changes they made were probably a smart decision overall for this market. And I too would love an optic version of the VHS sometime. Artifact of Daddy Bush’s 89 Import Ban; cooling fins/groves are scary features no imported “sporting rifle” needs.  I would have liked that too but it means either a US-made barrel or SA would need to machine them after the fact and refinish the barrels, adding expense and time. Realistically the Hellion is about as awesome a VHS-2 rifle can be. I’d like to see the longer barrel version or a coyote/FDE/ODG version but otherwise I’m pretty happy with what we got. |
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USA
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Posted: 7/4/2023 8:32:39 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Uys]
[#48]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MAKAK47: I just want some damned aftermarket support already What has support from Springfield looked like so far? I don't want to get ARX'd. Does Springfield, Inc sell parts for any of their products? |
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USA
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Posted: 7/5/2023 9:22:42 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Dustyattic: I'll chime in since you touched a personal nerve of mine. WHY couldn't it have been a 1:1 semi only replica? Looking at photos of the VHS-2 with integrated sight, I could not wait to buy one. As they are configured, I actually don't even want one. Same disappointment as when SIG was coming out with the 550 series rifles which turned out to be an abomination. It should be the standard that when a company produces a civilian version of a military firearm, it should be as close as possible to that firearm. If they are able, they should make an A and B type. A is the pure clone, and B they are free to go nuts with and add rails everywhere and folding, collapsible everything. If they are only able to make one, make type A. I have read that even if you somehow acquired the original parts, they won't attach. Which would you choose? https://modernfirearms.net/userfiles/images/assault/cr/1450507920.jpg https://palmettostatearmory.com/media/catalog/product/cache/7af8331bf1196ca28793bd1e8f6ecc7b/s/p/springfield-hellion-5-56x45-bullpup-rifle_-black.jpg I would also love to have it as a 1:1 offering but that rarely happens now ... for one ... it wouldn't be at $1899MSPR which kills its competitiveness compared to the IWI X95s and MDRs ... Should companies offer the full blown military variant ALONGSIDE the main market ... yup ... but I bet if that integrated sight would come out ... it would be an easy $1000-1200 add-on ... |
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USA
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Posted: 7/5/2023 9:23:32 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Uys: What has support from Springfield looked like so far? I don't want to get ARX'd. Does Springfield, Inc sell parts for any of their products? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Uys: Originally Posted By MAKAK47: I just want some damned aftermarket support already What has support from Springfield looked like so far? I don't want to get ARX'd. Does Springfield, Inc sell parts for any of their products? No parts yet ... but I have talked to Springfield and they do have plenty of parts on hand ... it does have a lifetime warranty ... |
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