I have done a couple night ftx events with the DZ rig, and I have no complaints about using the tuck tabs by feel.

An old techie like me should have known better, and waited for "service pack 1"

Edit:  I keep forgetting that I am an fng here...so disclaimer: that was a joke...I loves me my diz rig.

Just think about it this way - now you have an OG collectors piece, that in 20 years from now as the first power armor sets replace all this LBE, will suddenly be worth $1,200.  Or $57 Trillion with inflation.....or a quart of diesel and 5 rounds of 5.56mm depending on if we've gone mad max or not.

20 years from now I'll be wearing whatever deuce gear that Chesty has procured for Heaven's S-3.

Does anyone know if the DEI 1606 frame is longer than an Alice frame?

I want to try one out with my large alice pack, but if the frame rides too low for belt kit, its not gunna work for what I need.

The 1606 is 20".  I think the ALICE is 20.5"
That said, from DEI's site: "Although it is possible to use the #1606 Packframe on MOLLE Large Pad Sets & Ruck, it is not an application we recommend."
I've heard that the 1606 tends to crack under large loads, or after being thrown out of a six-by.

REgarding the female buckle on the pouch and the male on the lid for britih style kits i think it happened when surface mount buckles became available. that way you have a female buckle that is fastened in 3 points and immovable. you cannot surface mount a male buckle that bill be always dangling and you need a cinch strap in one of the two parts so it's a natural thing to put the male buckle on the lid, that way gravity keeps it pointed down and the female buckle has a little flare for easy one hand insertion.

Regarding Diz tuck tabs as a person that at some time was issued a vest with eagle industries style silent hook closure in the mag pouches i can appreciate the finer points of a closure in which a piece has to be tucked inside. Biggest problem is closing an half empty pouch. if the pouch body is not structured when you tuck the tab into the hole with your middle finger while keeping thumb and index in the lip you risk of pushing the pouch body inside screwing up the closing procedure. also the tab has to be carefully sized to allow an easy insertion, stable closure and easy opening. the bigger the pockets the bigger the potential for those problems.
i have been exercising and trying with the DZ rig and i ahve to say it is reasonably well thought. There is a little too much inertial friction between the roughness of the materials used for the tab and the external part of the "tucking pocket" that i would have honestly preferred smoother, but i would say it is 85 on a scale of 100 and probably with more break in time it will get smoother. that friction however helps with keeping the pouch well closed even without the elastic. i am confident it could be static line jumpable.

My review will come someday but there are many things to look at.

My issued vest with eagle silent hook closure. (pic from the web as i turned it in)

The 1606 frame is for the FILBE ruck and not the MOLLE Large ruck. The Molle ruck frame is quite a bit wider on the top and will not integrate the Alice packe, like the 1606 FILBE frame,

Huh, well, regardless of what DEI says, I prefer the 1606 over the issue MOLLE frame.  It's an easy mod.  But nowadays I'd use a DG-16 frameset.  Hopefully they will decide to sell them separately one of these days.  Truth be told, practically any polymer frame will crack, if you over-load it enough.  So I'd just use the one that fit me the best.

On tuck tabs.  Yeah they're not perfect, just as close as I could get it.  And, anyone that knows me, knows I'm all about constant process improvement.  I actually stayed awake in all those classes at Lockheed because that message resonates with me.  The tuck tab v.2 will be very much like the old Eagle stuff that Joe mentioned.  The tuck tab will be attached to bungee, not the top flap.  And the tension will be adjustable.    So if you need a little bit more tension, for less than full pouches, you can tighten things up a bit.  But no worries; if you want the different/new ammo pouches, it's simple to trade them out.  The basic Diz rig will remain unchanged on this go-round.  

But yeah, if these prove to be popular, then all the pouches on the Diz rig will be up-dated; so to Joe's point, the sustainments will then have a little extra security, when less than full.  

And for sure I agree, when you are using them at night, they are the best way to open and close a pouch, one-handed, silently, without looking at it.  The best way to close, is to find the pouch lid pull tab, with index finger and thumb.  You them use your "middle" finger to insert the tuck tab into the tuck tunnel.    

The best way to open, is to do a quick snap down, then pop up.  

To make closing slightly easier, take a pair of vice grips, or at least pliers, and gripping the tuck tab about mid-way, put a slight bend in the thing.  This will help it slide into the tunnel.  

As Joe mentioned, there can be some slight friction involved.  Kinda a two-edged sword.   Harder to get in, but also harder to slip out.  Putting the bend in it helps.  Also, if the tuck tunnel does not want to cooperate, stick your middle finger up in it first, then pop the tuck tab in there.  I'm going to stop right there.  

This would be gold for the Babylon Bee version of a how-to manual.  

The utility pouches on the Diz rig have converted me to the Nalgene bottle side.  Not so much because they create a better shelf for a ruck (which they do), but they also give me space in those pouches to shove other crap that I would normally carry in my flabby old butt pack.   Having a smaller butt pack makes me feel pretty.

I am not sure if a tuck Tab with elastic May be a Better design,  but honestly i am behind the curbe in many aspects including tactical Gear.

My closer Friends like to mock me doing caveman gestires or gorilla sounds when they talk about things i am oblivious to, like Marvel movies or the latest tech gadgets or when they hand me modern weapons like a Glock (which by the way i rented One in .22 caliber at the range a few days ago collecting 9 malfunctions in 50 shots).

.22 Caliber Glocks don't count as Glocks.

#NalgeneMasterRace

One Bottle to rule them.....

Nalgene Stainless Steel bottle is Master; plastic bottle melts.

Called up Nalgene for some sort of problem and got to chatting with Sales Rep.  Somehow, he offered me some SS Nalgene water bottles for FREE.

I took him up on it and got TWO Nalgene SS water bottles--for free--postpaid.

It pays to be "nice" to CS reps, since they are often dealing with complaints/jerks.

Stainless is heavy and I've carried disposable water bottles in my pockets through many a wildland or structure fire so I'm not sure what you mean, unless you mean for cooking. In that case nesting cups are a thing. I'd rather carry significantly more water for the same weight.

Agreed on stainless being too heavy. Peak outdoor water bottle is a repurposed gatorade bottle. Weights very little and almost as durable as a Nalgene. Plus when it gets nasty after several dozen uses, you can toss it out for a new one.

Smartwater bottles work pretty great too, the mouth isn't as wide though.

I keep telling people that when they first get into gear and are still building out their gear, get a half dozen 1 quart gatoraide bottles and use them for water bottles until you get everything else you need, then upgrade your bottles if you want.

I wouldn't say they were PEAK water bottles, but for general purpose backpacking and such, yea, definitely a solid option.  Heck, I collect them - I have two large black trash bags full of empty, cleaned and dried gatoraide bottles I keep in my barn.  Make good handout bottles for water in emergencies.  What?  The Chinese paratroopers are landing and you didn't get yourself some gear?  Here's a chicom chest rig, 2 gatoraide bottles, and a hello kitty school backpack I got for $1 at the thrift store.  Have fun.  (Or, more likely use, some kind of natural disaster to hand out to friends and family and neighbors)

Saying that, I DO like having a single walled stainless steel water bottle on my main set of gear for emergencies.  I can boil water, melt snow, heck if my bottle freezes  (I DO live in the mountains), I can melt the ice over a fire, etc.

Generally the rest of my bottles are plastic of some kind.

Threading also matches Sawyer water filters on Smartwater bottles.

At least "One" water bottle/canteen which can withstand serious heat is mandatory for heating frozen contents and boiling possibly contaminated contents.

One's water purifier may fail, and one might run out of "purifying" chems.  Boiling water is always sure, and the bigger the vessel, the better.

I keep one of Canterbury's stainless bottle cook kits in my ruck. Love the big-assed nesting cup.  But on my belt kit, just plastic bottles with one nesting cup/stove.  If I don't have the ruck, the filter fails, and the tablets get lost, I can still boil in the cup...if I can build a fire.  

Another thing about water, for at least my use case.  I'm not in some foreign shithole, I'm back in the world, home, patrolling my own backyard, among my own people, most of whom have running water.  Grid down? Pffft, this is Amish country, baby.  

Which brings up something else - who keeps a silcox key in their kit?

I don't.  There is water in every valley here, I'm basically never lacking for water.

I do, however, have one stashed away in my 'emergency tools' bag.

One of the best things about a wide mouth Nalgene style bottle, is being able to easily transfer hot water into it and use it as a sleeping bag heater in extreme cold weather. Its a game changer and you can boil water with a small alcohol or solid fuel stove. Bonus points, you have not-frozen water to drink when you get up.

It is also easier for me to store wide mouth Nalgene style bottles upside down in their pouch, with their nesting cup in the winter. This is important because it will help prevent the water from freezing at the opening where you drink.

all the above.

Plus with the wide mouth Nalgene you can easily get a knife in there to break up any ice in the winter if it does freeze on ya.

About the only negative is that you can't put the plastic ones over fire and need a metal cup if you want to heat stuff up.  Oh, and I'm not aware of any adapters for them to attach a Sawyer water filter directly onto or of any adapters for gas masks for them (seems like things that someone should have made available by now).

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0D3HJXKMS/

(haven’t tried)

I do not use Nalgenes for dirty water, so I cannot speak to using them to filter from. Too many better options, that also dont leave me accidentally drinking from contaminated containers.

YMMV

Same. Have one in the bag in my car, but not belt kit. Presume if I’m wearing belt kit I’m likely not wandering through a fallen civilization, Walking Dead style.

Water ain't gonna be good in those pipes for long in that scenario.  

Same as the soda would totally be flat in The Road.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OMHMHwMeL2Q

Item very similar to item linked above is "supposed" to be available from Self Reliance Outfitters (Pathfinder), for $9.99 + S/H, but OOS.  SRO/PF coupler is described as being made of "biodegradable PLA plastic", which I consider stupid, at least for this application.  Very similar linked (above) Amazon item has no details about plastic used.

SRO/PF Coupler

A more expensive and bulkier coupler suitable for connecting Sawyer Squeeze unit to Hydrapak items HERE Plastic used is ABS, which is not biodegradable.

Both of these items for Sawyer Squeeze only.

Cnoc has a bunch of adapters and parts and such for their bladders (which are actually pretty decent gravity filter bags).  Their openings are all designed around two sized - one the same thread and such as the sawyer filters / various water bottles.  And the other Nalgene compatible lids.  These bring the most popular sized in bottles these days.

They have a QD lid that fits the Nalgene bottles that lets you use the various QD water hoses in and our of the lid.

https://cnocoutdoors.com/collections/accessories/products/threaded-quickconnect-adapter

If I was doing a gravity filter from scratch, I'd probably just hit these guys up and then stock up on extra filters.

Great suggestion!

Having multiple water filters and multiple water vessels, it seems to me to be wise to be able to "cross-connect" as many systems as possible.  Adaptors provide such "cross-connection".

Should be mentioned that common Camelbak items are usually compatible with Source items.

YEa, I don't use the QD stuff for cross-connection.  It's more  'easy of storage'  and  'ease of replacement of tubing'.  

These are compatible with Camelback and Source too.

Just to mention that until "complete" cross-integration/compatibility of water devices, and possibly other devices within one's "Group" is established, there is some work to be done.  Standardized items, such as cross-connections, adaptors, and other gear may be very useful within one's "Group".

"Adaptability is the Key to Success".

ETA for clarity

SOE is getting into / back into the belt kit game.  

https://youtu.be/rabAn4kJrf0

Very nice.  And just shows you which way the market is turning.  Again.  What John is doing is exactly where my starting point was; improving US-style kit, with a 3" padded belt.  And I get that; there are many folks that don't get or like the hippo belt.  But for full Molle belt, that's a good design.  I also like his full cloth molle, as opposed to webbing.  And of course he kept a buttpack!  Very clean work.

I like the mag pouches with the little pouches in the side.

I know it's been mentioned before, but are there any books that folks wanting to make/repair gear should have access to?

Although of perhaps tangential interest, the book "The Sailmaker's Apprentice" is available on  Internet Archive.org
for free, and perhaps some other books as well.

@Diz  @marnsdorff

I watched this several times and I noticed how loose and bouncy every one of those pouches were when he was opening/closing and explaining them.

Assuming those magazines and canteens were empty, imagine how much more the pouches would be pulling out from that belt with weight in them.

I think pouches are bouncy because the belt leaves them mostly unsupported. Belts is just 2 row of pals and those rows are flush with top and bottom of the belt and also is there something inside to keep it stiff?. Maybe using his tapered war belt could have been slightly better.

From the video i am not a fan of the thing, looks like it could be uncluttered with some work.

Also the man should remember that it's not 1998 anymore, today there are a lot of people doing the same work, customer care is everything and he has none.

Yea, those pouches are OG stuff.  

Once I get my own kit dialed in how I want it, I'm sewing whatever pouches directly to the sides of the mag pouches, etc.

This is why I went with D-rings attached directly to the pouches instead of the belt, with an 8 point harness, when I first did my MOLLE setup.  Helped with the flop.

That and the wider belt would help.

To be fair, no one else is making something like this.  He didn't just come out and copy what everyone else is doing.  Alot of the pouches and such are stuff he's been making since, well, 1998.  Probably nothing wrong with those by themselves.  Personally I agree with the belt part - if he added another row of MOLLE to the belt, I think that would fix alot of those issues and it'd be a solid product, with his own unique SOE twist to it.  

People want to dip on the guy, maybe rightfully so, I dunno - I stay out of that kind of stuff - but he's been around sewing for a long time.  He doesn't change much of what and how he does - he's done some innovative stuff in recent-ish years, but he sticks to what he is good at. and he's got a massive following still today, even with all the hate he gets.  He's obviously doing something right.  I know I wish I had his customer base.

It does show the direction the market is going though, when SOE brings out a set of belt kit in 2024.  Which is why I posted it.

Not really.  There is the parachute riggers manual and there is a USGI field manual or technical manual or whatever - maybe a couple of them - that has sewing related stuff in it.  Those, especially the riggers manual, are the main ones I've seen people reference.

tbh, having done this stuff, sewing is sewing for the most part.  Gear making is actually easier SEWING than making apparel to me.  The seams seam to be easier and simpler, the fabric tends to be stiffer and hold in place easier than apparel fabric.  There are some nuances you have to learn with gear making, but most of it is straight forward stitching.  Straight lines, basic curves, turning the corner, etc.  Certain things like where to do bartacks / reinforcing stitching / etc. are a few specific things you learn as you go.

What is hard about gear making is learning how to DESIGN gear, how to make the patterns, how the stuff is assembled, and translating all of that into a finished product.  I can hand any decently experienced sewing person pieces of cloth already cut out and ready to sew, and with a few simple instructions, she would be able to successfully sew that together.

However, hand them a finished pouch and a piece of fabric, and tell them  'copy this'  and most people will have no idea what to do.  

I don't have them - I learned the hard way - but probably books on drafting designs / patterns, patterning itself, and probably tailoring too (basically adjusting patterns and learning how to make things work - ie, you adjust here, how does it affect the overall pattern?)

I'd probably tell a rank newbie to get:

A book or two on general purpose sewing.  It's nice to have reference books to open up.

The riggers manual and digital copies of the field manuals referenced above.  

Oh, the full technical manual on your sewing machine, including the repair manual.  Which is a different, more detailed manual.

Then look into books on design / patterning / tailoring.

I would also pick up a couple books on hand-sewing.  It's quickly becoming a lost skill.  

'Thrift With a Needle - The Art of Mending' is another book worth getting - it's dedicated to mending / maintaining / fixing clothing.

There is an old line of books from back in the 19-teens through WW2, that was part of a mail-order style education program for housewives, that had full walkthroughs of how to learn to sew.  Basically 'learn to sew with just you, your machine, and these books'.  I forget the name, but it's available online for free, and if I remember right, someone is re-printing all those books.  They are supposed to be excellent.  

I'd also look out at thrift stores for books on sewing, especially older books.  $0.50 for a book is worth picking them up if you have room.

Most of this stuff you can find online btw.  Videos on youtube are your friend, though it's really dang hard to find basic sewing stuff, especially stuff tailored at the gear world.  Alot of the problem is the terminology is really hard to search for, if you don't know what to look for.

And most importantly - ask questions.  There is no dumb question.  Find a place or two - here and find a good sewing forum. There is not really one for gear, but there are leather making forums that have a sewing section and those guys are wealth of oddball knowledge on this stuff.  I'd also consider just regular sewing forums, the kinds with little old ladies and weird hippy chicks on them.  Heck, find a local quilting club and hang out with them.  But ask questions.

I've got a camera mount finally, probably later this week I'll be setting it up and starting to do some videos.  I really am serious about doing a webpage designed to get a total newbie into sewing, both to do the random pouch or mod for himself, and for someone really serious about it.

Putting him or his work down was not my intent.
I was making an observation about the rig.

One of the reasons I dig the DZ Rig so much is for how stable and COMFORTABLE it is even when loaded for bear.

I’ve never been more pleased with a piece(s) of kit.

Poynter's Parachute Manual:



Army general fabric repair manual:  https://ciehub.info/ref/TM/4-42x21_2013.pdf



FAA Parachute Rigger Handbook:  https://www.faa.gov/sites/faa.gov/files/regulations_policies/handbooks_manuals/aviation/prh_change1.pdf

Ya man, I didn't think you were.  I was just rambling.  I do that sometimes.

Yup! Those!  Thanks man.

Kinda my thoughts.

Agreed with Diz above, it looks like a modernized Alice rig, the belt is much more narrow than the brit style, so I’d expect a lot of bounce, particularly with the massive buttpack loaded down.

That could maybe be alleviated with a large hydro/gp pack mounted to the rear panel/suspenders, but it wouldn’t help with the mag pouches. It’s also incorrectly sized for the guy modeling it, those pouches are way too far forward of the hips, could maybe fix that by ditching the pistol mag pouches and shifting stuff around.

I’m sure there’s some benefit to the narrow belts, might ride on the waist more comfortably for some folks, maybe offer a little bit more ventilation. Otherwise, it’s a toss up between the large utility pouches of the Brit style, or the giga-sized buttpack from traditional US gear.