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View Quote Those velocities are pants on head retarded. 1800 FPS? The chamber pressures are insane. |
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Quoted: Fiocchi makes a 125 grain 357 mag at 1575 fps Buffalo Bore makes a 125 grain 357 mag at 1700 fps Double Tap makes a pair of 125 grain 357 mag at 1750 fps Armscor makes a 125 grian 357 mag at 1825 fps View Quote What length of barrel? Pistol vs revolver barrel length can be a bit misleading, it doesn't include the cylinder chamber length in the OAL. |
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It just seems like 9mm Major with more steps:
9x19 COL + 9x19 Projectile + 9x19 case diameter = 9x19 case capacity Which means its running at 9mm Major pressure levels (42kpsi+) Unless I'm missing something here. |
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So they are making 9mm major with longer brass? Interesting play.
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Quoted: .38 super case was too weak and was simi rimed View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Looks to me like what .38 Super could have been... slightly more cartridge capacity than 9mm, but generally the same in the other dimensions. Bingo .38 super case was too weak and was simi rimed The real problem are the 1911s that don't fully support the chamber, kind of like the problem early Glocks had with 40S&W. https://www.shootingtimes.com/editorial/super-powders-for-the-38-super/99160 9x23WIN was created to fix that problem, but with a fully supported chamber, you can do the same with 38 Super. https://www.shootingtimes.com/editorial/cartridge-review-9x23-winchester/99601 There's also 38 Super Comp and 38 TJ, which are thicker walled, rimless variants. https://web.archive.org/web/20170405220820/http://38super.net/Pages/Brass.html |
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Quoted: With that extra length how exactly is that going to fit in a G19? View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: LOL.... .356 TSW is a hell of a self defense cartridge and having it in a G19 would be great. With that extra length how exactly is that going to fit in a G19? Overall length is the same, just the case length is longer. |
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Quoted: What length of barrel? Pistol vs revolver barrel length can be a bit misleading, it doesn't include the cylinder chamber length in the OAL. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Fiocchi makes a 125 grain 357 mag at 1575 fps Buffalo Bore makes a 125 grain 357 mag at 1700 fps Double Tap makes a pair of 125 grain 357 mag at 1750 fps Armscor makes a 125 grian 357 mag at 1825 fps What length of barrel? Pistol vs revolver barrel length can be a bit misleading, it doesn't include the cylinder chamber length in the OAL. But revolvers also have a cylinder gap (which I guess makes those numbers all the more impressive ). |
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Quoted: 9mm could use some improvement. The only difference with this is the brass, and it is a drop in barrel replacement- makes me wonder if you couldn’t just have a factory barrel’s chamber lengthened for the longer casing instead of buying an all new barrel. I might tinker with this cartridge sometime....if the brass isn’t ridiculous expensive it could be interesting. Make 9mm Great! (Notice no “again” included!) View Quote Drop in barrel AND, if you are going to shoot full power loads like the CorBon, a 22lb spring. Apparently the Federal load is at 9mm pressures and velocities. (what's the point?) John |
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I need one of those conversions in a Glock 43x barrel, Briley, you listening?
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Quoted: 9mm could use some improvement. The only difference with this is the brass, and it is a drop in barrel replacement- makes me wonder if you couldn’t just have a factory barrel’s chamber lengthened for the longer casing instead of buying an all new barrel. I might tinker with this cartridge sometime....if the brass isn’t ridiculous expensive it could be interesting. Make 9mm Great! (Notice no “again” included!) View Quote id imagine that higher presures requires a fully supported barrel, IIRC glocks aren't fully supported to promote easier feeding so there is reduction in chamber support. original TSW .356 were supposed highly tuned I think custom shop guns, I passed over one once in a shop didn't know what it was. 600 bucks nearly new and 3 boxes ammo too. |
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Hmmm never had any problems with any of my .357 sigs. All run flawlessly . I can see reloaders liking this . FPS looks pretty good too. Didn’t see any thing about costs vs sig . Boutique round for sure.
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Does it do anything better than 9mm or is it still just a pistol round that does pistol round damage?
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I read a magazine article or two about that cartridge back when, never saw one in the wild. Interesting.........
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Quoted: Does it do anything better than 9mm or is it still just a pistol round that does pistol round damage? View Quote Unless they’ve rewritten physics, it’s just another pistol round. Like every other round you can fit into a practical sidearm. This was another attempt to game the antique “major/minor power factor” rule concept. Which didn’t make much “practical” sense when it was implemented, and makes even less now. |
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Cool
With the right bullets speed helps with performance against barriers. When skynet becomes self aware I want fast hard bullets to destroy their chip. Its 2020. You know its coming. I think some extreme penetrators at 1400-1500 + fps from a g19 might be pretty cool |
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A 9mm magnum seems interesting.
Just don't get your hopes up about terminal ballistics in humans. It's not going to do much above what 9mm already does. If you want to handgun hunt small to medium game with your Glock 17, tho...well...might be a neat option. |
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Quoted: Cool With the right bullets speed helps with performance against barriers. When skynet becomes self aware I want fast hard bullets to destroy their chip. Its 2020. You know its coming. I think some extreme penetrators at 1400-1500 + fps from a g19 might be pretty cool View Quote No, you're gonna want a phased plasma rifle, and not a puny 40 watt model meant for killing meat bags either, you need something in the 87 watt range. |
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View Quote That is just an energy chart for a given speed. The buffalo bore loads do not get that fast. Here is a 115gr tested in a couple guns: Attached File |
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Quoted: This. .357 Sig is the only caliber I have shot across any platform that I have never had a single malfunction with. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Losing the bottleneck feeding advantage that .357 Sig offers is not a good thing. This. .357 Sig is the only caliber I have shot across any platform that I have never had a single malfunction with. These things happen when you've only shot 2 boxes of a caliber and neither of those boxes are WWB or UMC. If bottleneck/tapered cartridges were really advantageous to pistols, there would be at least one cartridge like that in mainstream use today. |
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Freinds, do I need one of these?
I have a completed p80 g17/22 frame. I was going to do 357 sig and I already have one such completed. The 17 slide is so much easier to obtain. But the 22 can be had. I am mostly a "for the hell of it" type of pistolero. In no way am I going to use these for black hats or shmoes. I suppose I have enough dies to handload this cartridge. |
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What problem does it solve that existing 9mm doesn't already handle?
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Quoted: Unless they’ve rewritten physics, it’s just another pistol round. Like every other round you can fit into a practical sidearm. This was another attempt to game the antique “major/minor power factor” rule concept. Which didn’t make much “practical” sense when it was implemented, and makes even less now. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Does it do anything better than 9mm or is it still just a pistol round that does pistol round damage? Unless they’ve rewritten physics, it’s just another pistol round. Like every other round you can fit into a practical sidearm. This was another attempt to game the antique “major/minor power factor” rule concept. Which didn’t make much “practical” sense when it was implemented, and makes even less now. Quoted: A 9mm magnum seems interesting. Just don't get your hopes up about terminal ballistics in humans. It's not going to do much above what 9mm already does. If you want to handgun hunt small to medium game with your Glock 17, tho...well...might be a neat option. Do you consider 10mm and .357mag to be "just another pistol round" type cartridge? Half-ass looking at numbers, this thing seems to be somewhere between those two. Just because this was designed with power factor gaming rules in mind doesn't mean it's useless. If you feel a need for increased power from a gun that isn't chunky or awkward, something like this seems like a really good option. Would I carry this for self defense from two legged problems in a populated area? Hell no. But this cartridge in something like a G48 or a longer slide Shield would make an excellent woods/backpacking gun. |
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Where this really has the potential to shine will be in the micro high cap 9's, like the P365 and Hellcat.
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Quoted: Meh.... already getting 1,325fps in my small & concealable G33 with a Lonewolf 4" barrel and 10+1. (100% reliable too) Conceals easy in my waistband and that is w/using 125gr speer factory ammo. (not 115gr ammo) Handloads have given me 1,400fps and better if I want speed. Yea, if I want 1600fps in my 357Sig, I could load up 115 grain bullets. If I want a larger gun then my G33 like the G19 in this conversation, I'll go to a real man-stopper like a 10mm altogether and forego a 9 !! https://i.imgur.com/9WV9V0w.jpg View Quote Nice! Sounds like a good plan. Long ago I settled on .40 as an all around cartridge for street and woods. But since then added many other calibers. Now I think some form of 9mm plus full load 10mm covers everything I am likely to need. |
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If it were up to me, I'd phase out standard 9x19 altogether and go all in on 356 TSW. The increased neck tension alone is worth it, IMO. It's a much better case for the handloader.
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Quoted: If it were up to me, I'd phase out standard 9x19 altogether and go all in on 356 TSW. The increased neck tension alone is worth it, IMO. It's a much better case for the handloader. View Quote I wonder if you can get away with shooting 9x19 out of a TSW chamber for cheap (in non-panic times) range ammo. |
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Quoted: Lower capacity since it is a bigger case. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: what's the negative with .357 sig? seemed good enough at that texas church shooting. Statistically irrelevant. Each round beyond 4 offers logarithmic diminishing returns. Statistically the difference beyween 15 and 17 rounds, in a self defense situation, is no difference at all. |
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Quoted: It just seems like 9mm Major with more steps: 9x19 COL + 9x19 Projectile + 9x19 case diameter = 9x19 case capacity Which means its running at 9mm Major pressure levels (42kpsi+) Unless I'm missing something here. View Quote No, you're not missing a thing here. The .356 TSW runs at 49,000 PSI. And who thought the muzzle blast was bad on the .357 Sig at 40,000 PSI? |
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Quoted:
Looks to me like what .38 Super could have been... slightly more cartridge capacity than 9mm, but generally the same in the other dimensions. View Quote I reload and shoot .357 Sig. What problems? |
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As mentioned, that ship has sailed. Missing from the above lists are calibers like 9mm Super Comp, 9x25 Dillon, 9X23 Winchester, 38/45 ACP, and I think CorBon also had a version as well. Only the SIG round remains, and from what I've seen it's the only really viable caliber (yes, I do have one).
I don't believe SAAMI even has a spec for 9mm +P+, all the suffix indicates is that the pressures are above 9mm +P. I've never found a spec for it on SAAMIs website. U.S. made ammo is loaded below the 9mms original design specs, and the specs used for NATO ammo. |
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Quoted: Do you consider 10mm and .357mag to be "just another pistol round" type cartridge? View Quote Yes. Because when it comes to what we are trying to do with defensive handguns, they don't reliably produce results that are vastly superior to 9mm. All handgun bullets to...all of them...is punch holes in things. Bigger, heavier bullets can do a better job of breaking through bones. Lighter, faster bullets can do a better job of zipping through intermediate barriers. In the end, though, all we get is a bullet that creates a permanent crush cavity that hopefully reliably penetrates deep enough to hit important vital structures in a human being. Bullets that over-expand cause shallow penetration. If you take an HST and you push it from the ~ 1,100-1,200 FPS it is currently running and stick the very same bullet over more powder pushing it to ~ 1,400-1,500 fps or more it's going to over-expand and penetrate shallow. So you need, at a minimum, a new bullet that will expand more slowly to go along with the increased velocity. And that bullet will end up expanding about as much as the 9mm bullet. And it will end up with about the same penetration as the 9mm bullet. It may do a bit better through intermediate barriers, but by "a bit" I mean the performance difference will be extremely marginal. Because physics is physics. Every cartridge is a compromise. Now if you are looking for a caliber/cartridge you can push to the gills to hunt game with, the extra capacity can come in handy. I'd rather have a 10mm loaded well if I was hunting, say, hogs, than my 9mm. Some of the advantages the 10mm's larger bullet and larger powder capacity starts to come into play in those circumstances. But against human threats, a .356 TSW or .357 Sig is still going to be pushing a .355 bullet into human flesh where, if the bullet is designed properly for the velocity it is going, will penetrate deeply enough to hit the vitals of a person and will expand reliably to the same general size as a 9mm projectile. That's what a .357 magnum does, by the way. The .357 magnum loaded to its potential pushing a 158 grain bullet fast penetrates deep. So deep, in fact, that it tends to overpenetrate. And in flesh it doesn't do anything spectacular that sets it apart from what a 124 grain or 147 grain 9mm projectile does to tissue. But if you need that extra penetration for performance at distance against game, or to bust through the tougher bits on a hog, the extra blast, recoil, and slower followup shots aren't an issue anymore. In defensive use of a handgun that .357's extra penetration doesn't buy you any advantage unless you're shooting at a dude through a significant barrier...and even then, it does so at the cost of lower capacity and slower followup. With more capacity and more time you can shoot more rounds from a 9mm and negate the benefit of that barrier. Handgun bullets just punch holes in things. To make them do more than that you have to make them move twice as fast or make them more than twice as heavy. Either of which means you can't fit the cartridge into a practical handgun anymore. |
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So it's 9mm major. I definitely didn't break an ejector on a Sig P226 shooting 9mm major in it.
I'll pass. If I want 40 recoil I want the bigger bullet that comes with it. |
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