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Posted: 4/3/2020 2:51:16 PM EST
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: 3M has just destroyed their brand value. This. I am not a big fan of what the government is doing (nationalizing businesses is scary stuff) but I kinda thought of it as something worked out ahead of time to clear 3M of any contract liability (read lawsuits) for not following through on signed contracts. But to hear them #resist and double down is kind of messed up. From what it sounds like 3M lost (as in for good) all their materials and facilities for PPE production in China to the CCP. That they are resisting the will of the government in what sort of amounts to their home country will not bode well for them. Just like the other situation involving masks (airplane depressurization), you need to secure yours before helping others. |
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Posted: 4/3/2020 2:51:47 PM EST
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Remove the word "Trump" from this story, and replace with "Cuomo." How would the responses here change? (Regarding this hypothetical situation above, I am not making a statement, taking a position, or giving an opinion, but merely asking.) Cuomo would still be a dick for his gun stance, but would have moved to the top of the field for Dem Presidential candidate. Fucking your own country over for profit is suicidal in the current conditions. 3M just cut their corporate wrists. https://www.3m.com/3M/en_US/company-us/help-center/ |
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Posted: 4/3/2020 2:52:03 PM EST
[#3]
I am really disappointed by this.
I have always thought of 3M as a first-class example of a successful American company. I own a tiny amount of their stock, and it has treated me well. Maybe I was always wrong ... but strongly suspect that it suffers from the pandemic of MBAs getting elevated to executive positions without their ever having done any real work, and playing to their own political beliefs and personal advantage over the people that work for the companies that they are destroying, and, apparently, the country that gave them all the advantage that they have. Scum. |
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Posted: 4/3/2020 2:52:49 PM EST
[#4]
I bet those on the facilities floors, shipping departments, drivers, and others will side with Trump over their CEOs and management.
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Posted: 4/3/2020 2:53:31 PM EST
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Unless it's something like "El Salvador has a factory that produces 250% of their mask needs. If we stop exporting then they could retaliate by not exporting to us." For so many things we are a net importer, so it could result in us cutting off our nose to spite our face. That's all I can think of. I agree that is his point. Stop Mask from going to say India, will they stop exporting Meds? |
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Posted: 4/3/2020 2:53:50 PM EST
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I've never heard a company report concerns about backlashes from other countries before. Does 3M think that they're in a diplomatic role or something? Leave that to the fuckin government. "Sorry Latin America, my gov.says they get stuff first, is what it is." There ya go. I mean, is Canada and Latin America putting America first in all this? Doubt it. Or does 3M know their market better than the federal government and is trying to warn them they are making an error? |
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Posted: 4/3/2020 2:55:32 PM EST
[#7]
Bunch of anti freedom statist authortarians up in here!
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Posted: 4/3/2020 2:55:52 PM EST
[#8]
Regardless of the reality behind the scenes or your opinion of the DPA and what Trump is doing, 3M screwed up big time here. They could have been the hero in this COVID-19 fight, and here they are on the defensive. Perception is reality, especially with all things DJT. From a leadership, communications, and marketing perspective, they've displayed gross incompetence.
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Posted: 4/3/2020 2:56:03 PM EST
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Remove the word "Trump" from this story, and replace with "Cuomo." How would the responses here change? (Regarding this hypothetical situation above, I am not making a statement, taking a position, or giving an opinion, but merely asking.) The same. Fuck other countries. |
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Posted: 4/3/2020 2:56:34 PM EST
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I don’t think Arfcom quite understands how much we rely on 3M. They are far from replaceable. In some markets. I've worked for direct competitors of 3M in a couple of fields, used and recommendes their products in various designs, and supported them as a consumer. This is a massive opportunity for ALL of their competitors. Unless the CEO is kicked like RFN, people will hate 3M. Enough to make a difference in their bottom line. Fuckin love it. MBA's run another company off the rails 
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Posted: 4/3/2020 2:57:25 PM EST
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The same. Fuck other countries. Don't be shocked if the feeling becomes mutual. And consider where we get what from before you do. |
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Posted: 4/3/2020 2:58:10 PM EST
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Will the executive branch of 3M be receiving visitors from the US executive branch today?? Almost certainly. This was a strange and retarded course of action to take given the circumstances. |
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Posted: 4/3/2020 2:59:19 PM EST
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I agree that is his point. Stop Mask from going to say India, will they stop exporting Meds? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Unless it's something like "El Salvador has a factory that produces 250% of their mask needs. If we stop exporting then they could retaliate by not exporting to us." For so many things we are a net importer, so it could result in us cutting off our nose to spite our face. That's all I can think of. I agree that is his point. Stop Mask from going to say India, will they stop exporting Meds? India has already banned the export of domestically produced drugs. |
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Posted: 4/3/2020 2:59:51 PM EST
[#14]
Think about this.
President Trump nationalizes a handful of big companies during this SoE and it continues until and beyond the election. And Trump loses... What does sleepy Joe or Cuomo do with their new businesses? |
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Posted: 4/3/2020 3:00:02 PM EST
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: More like 3M is summoned to appear and explain lol. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Will the executive branch of 3M be receiving visitors from the US executive branch today?? More like 3M is summoned to appear and explain lol. Yep. If Dems in congress will haul MLB players in front of cameras to talk about 'roids? there's little doubt the execs decided they're going to get loved tenderly by the legislative brass for a few weeks. They have their reasons, I'm sure. And yet their reasons will fall under "not good enough" for a vast majority of the public. "We have a procedure where-" fuck your procedure. They don't want reasons, they want masks. The end. People were under the impression that the only things causing the delays, were: "we can't make them fast enough". Not: "We have them, they're going other places, because, Official ReasonsTM." Trump doesn't give a fuck, I'm glad, and so will millions and millions of voters. |
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Posted: 4/3/2020 3:00:31 PM EST
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Trump is about to get a dose of how free markets work.... What ever gave you the impression this is currently a free market situation? |
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Posted: 4/3/2020 3:01:22 PM EST
[#17]
Dumbasses at 3M. Their PR dept has fucked this completely
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Posted: 4/3/2020 3:01:36 PM EST
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I bet those on the facilities floors, shipping departments, drivers, and others will side with Trump over their CEOs and management. Yep. BTW, we've got local companies in the healthcare businesa with people coming in 24x7 to make REAL vents and masks. Not management ordering them. People WANT to do as much as they can. |
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Posted: 4/3/2020 3:02:05 PM EST
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Regardless of the reality behind the scenes or your opinion of the DPA and what Trump is doing, 3M screwed up big time here. They could have been the hero in this COVID-19 fight, and here they are on the defensive. Perception is reality, especially with all things DJT. From a leadership, communications, and marketing perspective, they've displayed gross incompetence. To me it sounds like the ultimate expression of being a "global citizen" and being "woke". Many huge companies have been tracking that way for over a decade now, almost like they know something. They happily trade market share and profit in exchange for being PC. It is why diversity, being anti gun, pro environment and even making political statements that will alienate half your potential customer base are all the rage. |
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Posted: 4/3/2020 3:03:00 PM EST
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Think about this. President Trump rationalizes a handful of big companies during this SoE and it continues until and beyond the election. And Trump loses... What does sleepy Joe or Cuomo do with their new businesses? Anyone know to who 3M's political contributions go to? 
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Posted: 4/3/2020 3:03:14 PM EST
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Remove the word "Trump" from this story, and replace with "Cuomo." How would the responses here change? (Regarding this hypothetical situation above, I am not making a statement, taking a position, or giving an opinion, but merely asking.) Now replace MacArthur with Hirohito. STFU. |
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Posted: 4/3/2020 3:03:49 PM EST
[#22]
3M is critical in almost every industrial and military project. Both sides should tread lightly and come to an agreement on this. It will only end badly for both if Trump and 3M start battling.
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Posted: 4/3/2020 3:05:09 PM EST
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm surprised considering 3M's social media pages have been hounded mercilessly the last 24 hrs by angry Americans. Do they really care? Do we have any other choice? So let say I don’t want to buy a 3M mask? What other options are there? If they have the market cornered, even if there is social media blow back, after this is over people will still have to buy 3M masks unless other companies start making them. |
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Posted: 4/3/2020 3:05:22 PM EST
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: And if you "requisition" those supplies is management going to continue to pay overtime to have more made just so they can be taken by force again? Buy wall they would be compensated. Shake my head |
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Posted: 4/3/2020 3:06:24 PM EST
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Almost certainly. This was a strange and retarded course of action to take given the circumstances. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Will the executive branch of 3M be receiving visitors from the US executive branch today?? Almost certainly. This was a strange and retarded course of action to take given the circumstances. On this web board, where we are 90%+ Republican and libertarian, along with 10% Never_trumpers, dems, and trolls, we have a VERY high density of the Muh Market PurityTM crowd. A VERY high density of the crowd who would say, "oh well, The MarketTM will decide, let the masks go overseas and let people die here, lest we upset our principles and purity." i Of course the funny thing is, in a situation like this, they wipe their ass with the part where consumer perception and discussion is PART of markets deciding what businesses to support, because consumer attitudes are harder to grasp than a 20 year old Milton Friedman video where he spells everything out for them. So even WITH the most sympathetic cluster possible, It's 75% in support of Trump slapping 3M by the poll here. That 25% saying "Leave Once you add in more moderates and libs? 3M stepped in it. Donald has a lot of electoral support to skullfuck 3M over this. |
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Posted: 4/3/2020 3:06:40 PM EST
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I am not sure I even understand their retard logic. So if we stop selling them to other countries we will actually have less here? That makes perfect sense. Currently if I buy a 6 pack of beer and give my buddy 3 bottles I am left with 3. Using their math if I buy a 6 pack but refuse to give my buddy 3 beers then I will somehow end up only have 2 beers. Yea...that makes sense. I can only assume they mean ones made in other countries would not get sent here. Who else are we getting them from, China? No one wants a mask from there right now anyway, Ill take my chances and make them here. I hope folks remember they were willing to screw America during this deal to probably turn a higher profit with non-US sales... There are lots of manufacturers and lots of distribution channels. The question is, is it better for the established markets to operate, or do we need central planning. Is it necessary? Is there critical shortage? Other then Cuomo screaming, and hospital employees screaming, is there any real evidence that the supply is constrained? The knee jerk desire to go full central planning in every crisis is fascinating to watch. We definitely need central management of some sort, if only to be able to call bullshit and tell some states they are sitting in a million masks ina warehouse that were delivered last week, but some clerk forgot about. I'm not convinced we need to go full commie. |
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Posted: 4/3/2020 3:08:06 PM EST
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: there was a forbes article on the marketing of mask, that people probably haven't seen left cold - link is clean, but going to page generate url that has tracker https://www.forbes.com/sites/daviddisalvo/2020/03/30/i-spent-a-day-in-the-coronavirus-driven-feeding-frenzy-of-n95-mask-sellers-and-buyers-and-this-is-what-i-learned/ Quote HistoryQuoted: there was a forbes article on the marketing of mask, that people probably haven't seen Editors' Pick|319,148 views|Mar 30, 2020,04:40am EDT I Spent A Day In The Coronavirus-Driven Feeding Frenzy Of N95 Mask Sellers And Buyers And This Is What I Learned ... In the interest of brevity, I'm going to summarize what I learned below and then jump into a bit more detail. Millions of N95 masks have been available throughout the U.S., Canada and the UK during the pandemic, according to brokers trying to sell them. The high price point per mask, driven by extreme demand, has contributed to an overwhelmed reaction among potential buyers, especially in the U.S. Scrutiny surrounding these deals is high because of ongoing scams and claims of price-gouging, both of which are triggering emotionally charged reactions and fear of making deals. Millions of masks are being purchased by foreign buyers and are leaving the country, according to the brokers, while the domestic need remains alarmingly high. ... By the end of the day, roughly 280 million masks from warehouses around the U.S. had been purchased by foreign buyers and were earmarked to leave the country, according to the broker and that was in one day. To his knowledge none of the masks had been purchased by buyers in the U.S. left cold - link is clean, but going to page generate url that has tracker https://www.forbes.com/sites/daviddisalvo/2020/03/30/i-spent-a-day-in-the-coronavirus-driven-feeding-frenzy-of-n95-mask-sellers-and-buyers-and-this-is-what-i-learned/ So because of US price controls and price scrutiny brokers are selling to overseas buyers where they can charge whatever they want? How's that socialism going America? |
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Posted: 4/3/2020 3:08:46 PM EST
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Do they really care? Do we have any other choice? So let say I don't want to buy a 3M mask? What other options are there? If they have the market cornered, even if there is social media blow back, after this is over people will still have to buy 3M masks unless other companies start making them. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I'm surprised considering 3M's social media pages have been hounded mercilessly the last 24 hrs by angry Americans. Do they really care? Do we have any other choice? So let say I don't want to buy a 3M mask? What other options are there? If they have the market cornered, even if there is social media blow back, after this is over people will still have to buy 3M masks unless other companies start making them. In the short term sure, but there are some companies that have retooled and startups that are now making masks now and I don't think they will stop. So I think long term there will be competition for them. |
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Posted: 4/3/2020 3:08:49 PM EST
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: On this web board, where we are 90%+ Republican and libertarian, along with 10% Never_trumpers, dems, and trolls, we have a VERY high density of the Muh Market PurityTM crowd. A VERY high density of the crowd who would say, "oh well, The MarketTM will decide, let the masks go overseas and let people die here, lest we upset our principles and purity." i Of course the funny thing is, in a situation like this, they wipe their ass with the part where consumer perception and discussion is PART of markets deciding what businesses to support, because consumer attitudes are harder to grasp than a 20 year old Milton Friedman video where he spells everything out for them. So even WITH the most sympathetic cluster possible, It's 75% in support of Trump slapping 3M by the poll here. That 25% saying "Leave Once you add in more moderates and libs? 3M stepped in it. Donald has a lot of electoral support to skullfuck 3M over this. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Will the executive branch of 3M be receiving visitors from the US executive branch today?? Almost certainly. This was a strange and retarded course of action to take given the circumstances. On this web board, where we are 90%+ Republican and libertarian, along with 10% Never_trumpers, dems, and trolls, we have a VERY high density of the Muh Market PurityTM crowd. A VERY high density of the crowd who would say, "oh well, The MarketTM will decide, let the masks go overseas and let people die here, lest we upset our principles and purity." i Of course the funny thing is, in a situation like this, they wipe their ass with the part where consumer perception and discussion is PART of markets deciding what businesses to support, because consumer attitudes are harder to grasp than a 20 year old Milton Friedman video where he spells everything out for them. So even WITH the most sympathetic cluster possible, It's 75% in support of Trump slapping 3M by the poll here. That 25% saying "Leave Once you add in more moderates and libs? 3M stepped in it. Donald has a lot of electoral support to skullfuck 3M over this. I agree completely. Perception wise 3m won't find many allies on this and are going to get their pee pees slapped hard enough they won't forget it any time soon. |
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Posted: 4/3/2020 3:10:18 PM EST
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: We're not asking. Please don't group me with your communist bullshit, thanks Mr. We. |
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Posted: 4/3/2020 3:11:17 PM EST
[#31]
The company put significant effort in to establishing and maintaining these business relationships. The idea that the government can come in and capriciously seek to destroy them because the company isn't figuratively jumping high enough, is troubling.
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Posted: 4/3/2020 3:12:00 PM EST
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: There are lots of manufacturers and lots of distribution channels. The question is, is it better for the established markets to operate, or do we need central planning. Is it necessary? Is there critical shortage? Other then Cuomo screaming, and hospital employees screaming, is there any real evidence that the supply is constrained? The knee jerk desire to go full central planning in every crisis is fascinating to watch. We definitely need central management of some sort, if only to be able to call bullshit and tell some states they are sitting in a million masks ina warehouse that were delivered last week, but some clerk forgot about. I'm not convinced we need to go full commie. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I am not sure I even understand their retard logic. So if we stop selling them to other countries we will actually have less here? That makes perfect sense. Currently if I buy a 6 pack of beer and give my buddy 3 bottles I am left with 3. Using their math if I buy a 6 pack but refuse to give my buddy 3 beers then I will somehow end up only have 2 beers. Yea...that makes sense. I can only assume they mean ones made in other countries would not get sent here. Who else are we getting them from, China? No one wants a mask from there right now anyway, Ill take my chances and make them here. I hope folks remember they were willing to screw America during this deal to probably turn a higher profit with non-US sales... There are lots of manufacturers and lots of distribution channels. The question is, is it better for the established markets to operate, or do we need central planning. Is it necessary? Is there critical shortage? Other then Cuomo screaming, and hospital employees screaming, is there any real evidence that the supply is constrained? The knee jerk desire to go full central planning in every crisis is fascinating to watch. We definitely need central management of some sort, if only to be able to call bullshit and tell some states they are sitting in a million masks ina warehouse that were delivered last week, but some clerk forgot about. I'm not convinced we need to go full commie. That's the toughest part about this I think. There's "fog of war" over fuckin' everything. The virus, the supplies, the plans, the distancing, the reaction, hell even the testing and the numbers. No can state they've got a bead on this with 100% certainty.  Attached FileFor all the 3M execs know, the second they released their statement? A redfaced employee walked into their office with some freshly printed sheets of paper, with contradictory information  This shit happens, human error's amazing. |
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Posted: 4/3/2020 3:12:46 PM EST
[#33]
Revoke their export license and then revoke their patent
Let them fight it in court later. |
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Posted: 4/3/2020 3:13:37 PM EST
[#34]
Purely from a capitalistic view, this is a bad move for 3M. This is just food for the competition, and I'm sure there will be competition.
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Posted: 4/3/2020 3:14:39 PM EST
[#35]
Sounds like a good time for someone with cash to start making the same stuff that 3m makes.
How fast can new tooling be produced? How fast can the fda expedite approvals? |
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Posted: 4/3/2020 3:16:52 PM EST
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Revoke their export license and then revoke their patent Let them fight it in court later. Take the masks; due process later (TM). |
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Posted: 4/3/2020 3:16:54 PM EST
[#37]
Prime Justin Trudeau said it would be "a mistake" to create blockages that reduce the flow of essential goods, including medical supplies, across the border, noting that many Canadian healthcare professionals go to work in Detroit every day.
Asked whether Canada would retaliate if the U.S. blockade goes ahead, Deputy Prime Minister Chrystia Freeland said Ottawa would "do whatever it takes to defend the national interest." Reuters |
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Posted: 4/3/2020 3:17:00 PM EST
[#38]
How is forbidding export "nationalizing" a company? Just curious how y'all are coming up with that.
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Posted: 4/3/2020 3:17:28 PM EST
[#39]
I wonder what the breakdown of ownership of 3m is?
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Posted: 4/3/2020 3:17:43 PM EST
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Sounds like a good time for someone with cash to start making the same stuff that 3m makes. How fast can new tooling be produced? How fast can the fda expedite approvals? New tooling would come from China. FDA employees are all teleworking. |
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Posted: 4/3/2020 3:17:47 PM EST
[#41]
Those idiots could have negotiated with Trump and saved some semblance of brand value. They chose poorly.
 Yes, they probably didn't ship them out lightly, and they either had contracts or persons dear to them wherever they were going, and people are people regardless of nationality. However, Trump has the political upper hand here and all the free press coverage the nation can stand. You can't win that battle. Toss him his bone while navigating the current political climate to get them where you think they need to be. Trump makes deals, that's who he is. |
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Posted: 4/3/2020 3:18:17 PM EST
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Prime Justin Trudeau said it would be "a mistake" to create blockages that reduce the flow of essential goods, including medical supplies, across the border, noting that many Canadian healthcare professionals go to work in Detroit every day. Asked whether Canada would retaliate if the U.S. blockade goes ahead, Deputy Prime Minister Chrystia Freeland said Ottawa would "do whatever it takes to defend the national interest." Reuters LOL, you could fit all of Canada's military personnel and their equipment on Nellis AFB.. and still have room leftover
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Posted: 4/3/2020 3:18:39 PM EST
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: How is forbidding export "nationalizing" a company? Just curious how y'all are coming up with that. True. Just make masks ITAR regulated. |
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Posted: 4/3/2020 3:18:57 PM EST
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Revoke their export license and then revoke their patent Let them fight it in court later. 
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Posted: 4/3/2020 3:19:22 PM EST
[#45]
Am I to late at the party for:
I'm in before some smarter than the average bear GD keyboard commando cries that's how capitalism works and the president is acting like a dictator? FU 3M Stop blaming your distributors and cut them off completely. Sell at cost directly to the USA only and let the other countries watch their health care workers get infected instead of ours that are trying to help Americas. You scum bag Oompa Loompa. |
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Posted: 4/3/2020 3:19:28 PM EST
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: New tooling would come from China. FDA employees are all teleworking. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Sounds like a good time for someone with cash to start making the same stuff that 3m makes. How fast can new tooling be produced? How fast can the fda expedite approvals? New tooling would come from China. FDA employees are all teleworking. I’m sure there’s enough machinists and production of electronics in the US that we could stand something new up fairly quickly. |
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Posted: 4/3/2020 3:19:44 PM EST
[#47]
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Posted: 4/3/2020 3:19:56 PM EST
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: There's no reason to ship this stuff out of the country other than they are offering you several times the money, up front. I hope they shove it up their asses. This is like having a pair of 2's in black jack and saying you want to split them. America first, then capitalism. Hey, it’s my hand I’ll play it how I wanna! Oh, F3M |
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Posted: 4/3/2020 3:19:56 PM EST
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: True. Just make masks ITAR regulated. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: How is forbidding export "nationalizing" a company? Just curious how y'all are coming up with that. True. Just make masks ITAR regulated.
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Posted: 4/3/2020 3:19:58 PM EST
[#50]
They are shipping thru distribution to overseas contracts or brokers that paid for the product up front...the needs for N95 masks didn't just appear overnight, this has been on the radar since last year. 3M made a decision to support foreign paying goats versus work off of a Intent to purchase contract with the US govt. Thats dumb...as the reference to airplane O2 mask...yours and then everyone else...3M had a chance to be the patriot and support the US first, the Citizens working in their buildings and factories first...they aren't, instead they pushed product to distribution and brokers for quick money.
Now DPA...Trump owns their products, which will be paid for, but we the USA gets ours first. Guess what, global production on N95 is sold out for at least a year if not longer. Even with say another company building production here in the US, your looking at July/Aug if not Sept before production is running full-tilt. And their first order goes to Uncle Sam HHS, then to everything else they can service...its frustrating as hell but its where we are at. |
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