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Something you can't have because "you suck and we hate you" http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/tumblr_ouhfffBgMc1s57vgxo4_1280-660x435.jpg View Quote |
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Don't get me wrong, I love the P90 (Stargate SG-1 was on all the time growing up) and I would love to own one someday, but they're just too damned expensive.
Especially because you pretty much have to SBR the PS90, during which you have to rethread the barrel, and of course then you have to get a suppressor. It's just SOP. Lots of time and money. I know there's some AR57s out there, post 'em up! (And continue with the FiveseveNs and P90s!) |
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O.K., it's rant mode time... I own a PS90 and a FiveseveN pistol. The price that FN charges for them is frickking OUTRAGEOUS! If you break down a PS90 it's pretty damn simple. Frankly I'm surprised that no one has came out with a clone as the patents are expired. In addition the receiver is a CRAPPY ASS casting with parting line marks all over it. Don't get me wrong, I love both weapons BUT they are WAY over priced! It's pretty obvious that FN cares about civilian customers about as much as HK, they dropped the OD Green PS90, they dropped the Tri Rail receiver (they still offer it on P90's). View Quote |
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O.K., it's rant mode time... I own a PS90 and a FiveseveN pistol. The price that FN charges for them is frickking OUTRAGEOUS! If you break down a PS90 it's pretty damn simple. Frankly I'm surprised that no one has came out with a clone as the patents are expired. In addition the receiver is a CRAPPY ASS casting with parting line marks all over it. Don't get me wrong, I love both weapons BUT they are WAY over priced! It's pretty obvious that FN cares about civilian customers about as much as HK, they dropped the OD Green PS90, they dropped the Tri Rail receiver (they still offer it on P90's). Here is a photo of a particularly bad casting on a PS90.... https://i.imgur.com/JVI1xDW.jpg Here is a photo of what the receiver CAN look like (after a lot of custom work)..... https://i.imgur.com/LJtSHdo.jpg View Quote Or for Heaven's sakes -paint one... |
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I'd love to have a 5.7 upper, or an SBR PS90. But a subsonic 55gr bullet is anemic. 300blk subs are kinda cool because of the mass and sectional density of the projectile. 5.7 is interesting with the hot ammo. View Quote |
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If the gun does what it's supposed to, I would have far better things to do with my time than dress one up... Or for Heaven's sakes -paint one... View Quote |
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Glock only builds one pistol. That would require an actual redesign. Never going to happen. View Quote For the most part they just do large frame (G20/G21), medium frame (G17/G19/G22 etc), and small frame (G42/G43). So a 5.7 glock is pretty unlikely. |
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Can't comment too much on balistics which hasn't already been discussed. I think it's a decent pdw round that's more comparable to a high-efficiently pistol round than a rifle round. I own a FiveSeven that I carry occasionally more because I like the pointability and ethos.
I also have two PS90s - one is an SBR (OD green) that I generally suppress with a Specwar 556. I have a Burris FF3 on it. The other is a Title 1 gun - I extended the butt pad and permanently attached a silencer (Griffin Spartan 3) to a 10.5" CMMG barrel/thread adapter. The system (I hate that term, but it is what it is) is very quiet and the perfect home defense weapon for my wife who finds the AR - including my 10.5" SBR - too unwieldy and hard to charge. It has a C-More. I've popped off rounds indoors and it sounds pretty good, though the action noise is most definitely present. Not nearly as quiet as a suppressed 9mm or 300 sub, but it's a zippy round. I've never tried any of the boutique rounds, but the store bought AE and SS197 is fine and reliable. I really don't trust subsonic 5.7 as it's just too slow to make good use of the bullet shape; basically a jacketed .22. A good comparison would be a .32 cal or .25ACP. The SS198LF is a bit hotter and cycles well, bu Bud spendy. I am invested in the ammo and generally keep 5-6K rounds on hand. Frankly, I just can't complain about the guns as the fill their role as well as any. |
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... like murdering Swedish reporters and disposing of their bodies.
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Yes. But were talking about 5.7 here. I'm not an operator, operating quietly. And that sub round going off next to your ear, through plastic (PS90), isn't that quiet. But still sounds cool!
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Adding - there is some discussion re: little practical info on the rounds effectiveness outside of the Ft. Hood shooting. Actually, Houston PD deployed the P90 to good effect a few years back and reportedly "unzipped" an armed suspect. This may have involved a hostage situation, but memory fails. The P90 is deployed in Houston, Dallas and Jacksonville, FL.
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Had a PS90 for a while. Wasn't that impressed, and sold it.
Since then, WA legalized SBRs, which makes them slightly more intriguing... but the ammo cost / availability / hassle of reloading is a pretty steep hill to get over. It's just not that impressive of a cartridge for what you pay for it. |
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Had a PS90 for a while. Wasn't that impressed, and sold it. Since then, WA legalized SBRs, which makes them slightly more intriguing... but the ammo cost / availability / hassle of reloading is a pretty steep hill to get over. It's just not that impressive of a cartridge for what you pay for it. View Quote Why is everyone skipping over the AR57 pistol?! Half the cost of a PS90, same length as an SBR, with AR controls. No brainer. |
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Speaking of suppressors, I have a Silencerco Specter II. Supposedly it's rated for the 5.7x28 round (in addition to the 17hmr and full-auto .22).
Anyone know or can confirm if that's actually true? Can I put it on the PS90, Five-seveN, or an AR57 without having it explode? I have always liked the idea and looks of the P90, I have a couple .300blk AR pistols and could likely be talked into an AR57, and wouldn't mind having a cool pistol that used the same ammo, even if it is expensive. Especially if I already owned the proper suppressor. |
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Speaking of suppressors, I have a Silencerco Specter II. Supposedly it's rated for the 5.7x28 round (in addition to the 17hmr and full-auto .22). Anyone know or can confirm if that's actually true? Can I put it on the PS90, Five-seveN, or an AR57 without having it explode? I have always liked the idea and looks of the P90, I have a couple .300blk AR pistols and could likely be talked into an AR57, and wouldn't mind having a cool pistol that used the same ammo, even if it is expensive. Especially if I already owned the proper suppressor. View Quote |
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Speaking of suppressors, I have a Silencerco Specter II. Supposedly it's rated for the 5.7x28 round (in addition to the 17hmr and full-auto .22). Anyone know or can confirm if that's actually true? Can I put it on the PS90, Five-seveN, or an AR57 without having it explode? I have always liked the idea and looks of the P90, I have a couple .300blk AR pistols and could likely be talked into an AR57, and wouldn't mind having a cool pistol that used the same ammo, even if it is expensive. Especially if I already owned the proper suppressor. View Quote |
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I don't know for sure if the Specter is rated for 5.7 (I think it is), but rimfire cans are a bit dissapointing on 5.7 guns to to the inherent lack of volume. I prefer using a 5.56 can or a titanium 9mm can (with manufacturer's approval). View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Speaking of suppressors, I have a Silencerco Specter II. Supposedly it's rated for the 5.7x28 round (in addition to the 17hmr and full-auto .22). Anyone know or can confirm if that's actually true? Can I put it on the PS90, Five-seveN, or an AR57 without having it explode? I have always liked the idea and looks of the P90, I have a couple .300blk AR pistols and could likely be talked into an AR57, and wouldn't mind having a cool pistol that used the same ammo, even if it is expensive. Especially if I already owned the proper suppressor. |
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Here is a photo of what the receiver CAN look like (after a lot of custom work)..... https://i.imgur.com/LJtSHdo.jpg View Quote Any details on the work? I'm assuming it wasn't Ceracoat that put it on the mill |
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This is correct! I started out with a Sparrow can. It was too loud still. Quickly moved to a 5.56 suppressor. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Speaking of suppressors, I have a Silencerco Specter II. Supposedly it's rated for the 5.7x28 round (in addition to the 17hmr and full-auto .22). Anyone know or can confirm if that's actually true? Can I put it on the PS90, Five-seveN, or an AR57 without having it explode? I have always liked the idea and looks of the P90, I have a couple .300blk AR pistols and could likely be talked into an AR57, and wouldn't mind having a cool pistol that used the same ammo, even if it is expensive. Especially if I already owned the proper suppressor. |
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Thanks for the replies and info. I have a couple other cans, but they wouldn't work either. The older AAC Cyclone pretty much lives on my .308 boltgun, and would have the wrong threads anyway; and the 7.62 SDN-6 needs the QD flash suppressor mounts, which I pretty much have on everything else.
If I get any more suppressors, it would likely be more of the same... another SDN-6 in 5.56, for example, so I didn't have to change out the mounts. That would likely work fine for the PS90 or AR57, but would look awfully funny on the Five-seveN. |
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... like murdering Swedish reporters and disposing of their bodies. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes |
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I was going to accuse you of a COC violation, but remembered that Swedes aren't people. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes |
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Years of me hating on G3s, and that's all it took?
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Years of me hating on G3s, and that's all it took? View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes |
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I have a lot [cases] of 'expired' SS195 and the primers still work lol View Quote I don't want to pay big money (to me.lol) for new SS198 with LF primers though. I was prepared to get over it, but the thought of potentially "rotating" ammo stock is stupid to me. My grandkids could shoot perfectly fine SS192 and SS190 someday 30 years from now, but could they shoot LF SS198? I have no idea. Not about to pay premium to find out! If it isn't (100% reliably) stackable for long term, it isn't even interesting to me (unless free or almost free). |
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O.K., it's rant mode time... I own a PS90 and a FiveseveN pistol. The price that FN charges for them is frickking OUTRAGEOUS! If you break down a PS90 it's pretty damn simple. Frankly I'm surprised that no one has came out with a clone as the patents are expired. In addition the receiver is a CRAPPY ASS casting with parting line marks all over it. Don't get me wrong, I love both weapons BUT they are WAY over priced! It's pretty obvious that FN cares about civilian customers about as much as HK, they dropped the OD Green PS90, they dropped the Tri Rail receiver (they still offer it on P90's). Here is a photo of a particularly bad casting on a PS90.... https://i.imgur.com/JVI1xDW.jpg Here is a photo of what the receiver CAN look like (after a lot of custom work)..... https://i.imgur.com/LJtSHdo.jpg View Quote I wish someone would clone the shit out of it. A decent manufacturer could probably turn a healthy profit in the sub $500 zone. If it were cheap enough that many more shooters had one, then surely cheaper ammo could follow too. |
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To whet appetites for the PS90, a few photos.... Repurposing a Pelican laptop case.... https://i.imgur.com/NraSVuQ.jpg https://i.imgur.com/POSrKDr.jpg And to be able carry it in the field, there is a built in sling attachment for the PS90.... https://i.imgur.com/DM3lTgV.jpg View Quote When I first got the PS90, I bought some Stargate sling that was being cloned by some guy online.lol I don't think the hardware is the greatest, but I've seen every episode of SG ever made, so I had to have a harness just for fun. The wife even got a kick out of it. "Wow! Isn't that the Stargate gun?!?!?!". First time she ever recognized a particular weapon in her life. |
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I'll make one more post in regards to the 5.7x28's terminal ballistics. I take anything that comes from Doctor Roberts as gospel, as he is one of the foremost experts in terminal ballistics in the world.
Small caliber PDW's like the MP7 and P90 are niche weapons that have very narrow and specific roles to play.
Below are comments specifically on the MP7 by a combat experienced senior SOF NCO currently serving in the U.S. military: ”When employing the MP7 up close, you literally use it like a fire hose and sprinkle 4.6 all over the torso of the guy you want to reduce (usually on Auto, which is a CQB no-go anyway), and you have to keep hosing him down with bullets until his brain figures out that you are filling him in. Usually this takes longer than shooting a NSR with a rifle, so by the time that your brain figures out that the guy has quit and is crumpling, you are almost out of bullets and any other threats in the room have most likely started to engage you. IF your team is on their **** and everyone grasps the true importance of primary/secondary sectors of fire, then perhaps you can get in there and all of your guys can sprinkle 4.6 liberally on all of the bad guys in an efficient manner, but if you fail to do that, then bad things will happen quickly.” Pat Rogers, a former NYPD officer and combat veteran Marine, is a highly respected firearms trainer who has also commented on the use of small caliber PDW’s like 4.6 and 5.7 mm: ”Multiple rounds are required to incapacitate. This means significantly more training, which translates into significantly more ammunition expended, at a higher cost per round and with limited sources available. To ensure immediate incapacitation, brain shots will need to be emphasized. Which requires more training, and also more insertion of luck into the equation- especially dealing with multiple opponents. Limited capability within the system means engagement at anything outside of CQB distances may be problematic. This means movement to objective, egress etc will present a whole new range of difficulties. The gun is easy to shoot and fun as well. This does not always translate well to real world applications. If there is a single reason why these platforms are in any way superior to the M4 FOW, it is not apparent to me.”” A decorated, experienced SWAT officer at a U.S. LE agency that has had multiple OIS incidents with 5.7 mm FN P90's has written the following--note that his comments equally apply to the 4.6 mm MP7: ”The 5.7 pistol as a carry gun is a mistake. There are far more effective weapons and ammunition combinations out there. The only factor that comes close to equalizing the P90 (not the 5.7 pistol) is it's full auto capability: 900 rpm of very controllable fire. Even this advantage is limited to close-in, CQB type engagements. I can put more rounds on target faster with the P90 than with my M4 in close contact engagements. Unfortunately you may HAVE to put more rounds in the threat due to the lack of damage the projectile causes. The 5.56 is far more effective at getting the attention of men than 5.7 mm. This is not speculation. We have been using 30 P90's for five years now. There have been multiple BG's shot with them. We will not be buying more 5.7 mm or other small caliber PDW systems” - 30 P90's for five years - 100,000 rounds per year through those weapons - very reliable weapon - very user friendly - very easy to shoot - everyone happy - three OIS's later and some unbelievably poor terminal balistic performace we dropped them...quickly. - 22+ OIS shootings using AR-15's with .223...everyone happy (except the 21 dead bad guys)." As a result of poor terminal performance, a large Federal agency is also no longer running P90’s like they used to. Likewise, some military units that tried small caliber PDW's in combat are procuring other options, like 9" .300 Blackout uppers to run on M4 lowers. When a civilian LE agency chooses a full-auto system, significantly more time is needed for training. This increases costs, both in the amount of ammunition necessary to purchase, as well as the need to pay officers for increased time in training, rather than being in the field. Instead of a 1-5 shot NSR with an AR15 based system, with an MP7 each officer is now going to be routinely shooting 15-20+ rounds into each target both in training and in actual OIS incidents, thus the amount of ammo expended is going to be 4 times what would be used with an AR15 based system shooting any common CQB caliber like 5.56 mm, .300 Blackout, 6.8mm, or even 7.62x51mm. How is an LE agency going to afford four times more training ammo for a weapon system like the MP7 that needs to be always shot full auto and whose ammo is more expensive than other common calibers? In the civilian realm, how is an LE agency going to explain to their Admin and media why they are now needing to shoot every suspect 15-20+ times? In addition, when you are having to shoot 15-20 rounds full-auto at every target, there is a higher likelihood that some of those rounds may miss the target; how is an LE agency going to handle the liability from the potential increased number of missed shots that can occur with a system that needs to be used full-auto like a "fire hose" in order to offer adequate incapacitation of threats? With the data now available, a U.S. LE agency would have to be woefully ignorant or colossally stupid to purchase the MP7 (or P90) for SWAT use given the numerous weapon systems available for LE SWAT/CQB use that are both better and more cost effective than small caliber PDW's. If SBR's are desired, consider a 10-12" 5.56 mm using properly selected good quality barrier blind ammunition (see: http://pistol-forum.com/showthread.p...-mm-Duty-Loads), 8-12" .300 Blackout uppers when appropriate LE ammo is finally released (6-12 months away); even better get 8-12" 6.8 mm's uppers, or if you want to have the best terminal performance go with the new group of 16" .308 rifles like the KAC SR25 EMC, LaRue Predatar (or OBR for precision use), or the FN Mk17/SCAR-H using appropriate ammunition (see: http://pistol-forum.com/showthread.p...5164#post75164). View Quote |
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I'll make one more post in regards to the 5.7x28's terminal ballistics. I take anything that comes from Doctor Roberts as gospel, as he is one of the foremost experts in terminal ballistics in the world. View Quote |
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I'll make one more post in regards to the 5.7x28's terminal ballistics. I take anything that comes from Doctor Roberts as gospel, as he is one of the foremost experts in terminal ballistics in the world. https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?4338-Small-Caliber-PDW-s-FN-5-7-mm-HK-4-6-mm View Quote Here is a LINK to a DOCUMENTED Officer involved shooting with a .Glock 21 45 acp, it took 17 |
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Here is a LINK to a DOCUMENTED Officer involved shooting with a .Glock 21 45 acp, it took 17 View Quote FWIW: I've seen an autopsy report of a guy that was shot with multiple handgun and 5.56 Hornady OTMs before he croaked. It made the rounds on the internet some time ago. |
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I'll make one more post in regards to the 5.7x28's terminal ballistics. I take anything that comes from Doctor Roberts as gospel, as he is one of the foremost experts in terminal ballistics in the world. https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?4338-Small-Caliber-PDW-s-FN-5-7-mm-HK-4-6-mm View Quote |
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To whet appetites for the PS90, a few photos.... Repurposing a Pelican laptop case.... https://i.imgur.com/NraSVuQ.jpg https://i.imgur.com/POSrKDr.jpg And to be able carry it in the field, there is a built in sling attachment for the PS90.... https://i.imgur.com/DM3lTgV.jpg View Quote |
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