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Posted: 5/24/2023 12:18:33 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Absent the current administration coming to their senses and dropping this I think early July is best case scenario as far as a time frame. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: So we won't get any real answers until first week of July probably? Absent the current administration coming to their senses and dropping this I think early July is best case scenario as far as a time frame. Yep. Now we wait. |
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Posted: 5/24/2023 12:37:38 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They have given you a forbearance on the tax. That’s it. That’s all. No Amnesty. In 1968 you could have been a three time felon that stole a rack of M-16s from the national guard Armory down the street and you could’ve registered them with no repercussions. NONE. Because of the amnesty that the ATF wrote back then. Do you think that all of those ATF attorneys and the .gov after years of looking at this forgot to write that into this one? Please. Nobody NEEDS true amnesty for this because they've committed no prosecutable crime. ATF very publicly admits there is a gray area partly of their own making. The rule itself only proves they felt they had to change things to make braces prosecutable. As you say, in the full amnesty one could be absolutely in clear violation of the law and register. If this were a full amnesty you could register an SBR with a stock for free so they were never going to do that. The idea that they may prosecute for doing as directed is dystopian fantasy. Even if they tried they'd have to find a DA to actively participate and judge and jury to go along with blatant entrapment. After all that, add in the statute that makes filing for a registration not admissible evidence for prosecution. How does this even relate to the status of the registration? They're giving the same 'permanent' paperwork as ever except for exempting the tax. The contingency is only that you didn't lie about being eligible. Ex grab 10 registered lowers for free that never had braces. The tax forbearance only means the program is temporary and they'll go back to charging everybody. If it were a legal forbearance in the individual sense there would be an expiration date and/or condition specified. You can be damn sure that any entity that gives you a legal 'forbearance' on anything clearly states the extent! If they did invalidate the free registration so what? DNC or remove the brace/stock, then pay the 200 if you choose and put it back on. There are good reasons to take an option other than registration but "admitting a felony", "not an amnesty" and "temporary forbearance" are all full of shit. It's probably futile to argue because even 10 years from now when those things haven't happened nobody will admit they were wrong. |
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Posted: 5/24/2023 12:43:13 PM EDT
[#3]
Does this mean they stop processing tax free Form 1s?
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Posted: 5/24/2023 12:50:05 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yup. The real winners of the ArmBrace topic? : Youtube commentators. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: https://youtu.be/P1EIjrqvjCo Hot Link to Video Who does this apply to? Everyone needs to watch the video I linked. I went to law school, i used to practice law. Mark Smith and the Four Boxes Diner is the best 2A law resource I’ve ever found. He really knows his stuff and doesn’t engage in hyperbole and clickbait. He’s as legit as it gets. He gets into who is covered and why the legal question isn’t as clear as we would like. I’ll take his analysis over folks in this thread. So basically he provided no new information and managed to take 9 minutes to do so? The outstanding question is whether the relief provided to FPC extends to its members, to which he says he doesn't know. He then says he doesn't know if FPC even has members. Simply going to their website and looking in the top left corner you'll see a button that says "Join." If you click the "join" button in the top left corner and the "donate" button in the top right corner they take you to different landing pages. So it would have taken him less than 60 seconds to answer the question he claims he doesn't know the answer to, and he provides no answers to the question we all have. In my opinion he is about as clickbait as it gets. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/218/Screenshot_2023-05-24_at_11_51_59_AM-2827383.png Yup. The real winners of the ArmBrace topic? : Youtube commentators. Can we get a ruling from the four pizza boxes bad hair guy YouTube page? |
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Posted: 5/24/2023 12:54:38 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I did the free SBR registration on mine. Even if the new rule is declared unconstitutional, I’m keeping it as is. Even if they make me pay the $200. But this is movement in the right direction. I applaud FPC! Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I think some are wrong... This injunction only applies to the 5th circuit district not all of the US and not only the listed plaintiffs. It is a start but really only helps the 5th district states out. I did the free SBR registration on mine. Even if the new rule is declared unconstitutional, I’m keeping it as is. Even if they make me pay the $200. But this is movement in the right direction. I applaud FPC! Same here. Especially if I don’t have to engrave them. |
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Posted: 5/24/2023 1:46:12 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So apply that same logic to the rare breed FRT's. ATF(and MULTIPLE prior ATF tech branch heads) stated "nope this isnt a MG", now ATF is apparently going to people houses and saying "hey you bought a MG illegally, turn it over or we get warrant and you go to jail..." If you read the bumpstock ruling it's clear they considered devices like the FRT to be machineguns and had for over a decade. Same thing with auto gloves and Akins accelerators. |
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Posted: 5/24/2023 1:51:32 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Nobody NEEDS true amnesty for this because they've committed no prosecutable crime. ATF very publicly admits there is a gray area partly of their own making. The rule itself only proves they felt they had to change things to make braces prosecutable. As you say, in the full amnesty one could be absolutely in clear violation of the law and register. If this were a full amnesty you could register an SBR with a stock for free so they were never going to do that. The idea that they may prosecute for doing as directed is dystopian fantasy. Even if they tried they'd have to find a DA to actively participate and judge and jury to go along with blatant entrapment. After all that, add in the statute that makes filing for a registration not admissible evidence for prosecution. How does this even relate to the status of the registration? They're giving the same 'permanent' paperwork as ever except for exempting the tax. The contingency is only that you didn't lie about being eligible. Ex grab 10 registered lowers for free that never had braces. The tax forbearance only means the program is temporary and they'll go back to charging everybody. If it were a legal forbearance in the individual sense there would be an expiration date and/or condition specified. You can be damn sure that any entity that gives you a legal 'forbearance' on anything clearly states the extent! If they did invalidate the free registration so what? DNC or remove the brace/stock, then pay the 200 if you choose and put it back on. There are good reasons to take an option other than registration but "admitting a felony", "not an amnesty" and "temporary forbearance" are all full of shit. It's probably futile to argue because even 10 years from now when those things haven't happened nobody will admit they were wrong. Unless somethings changed, isn’t by doing the tax free form, you’re admiting to it always been an sbr? |
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Posted: 5/24/2023 2:06:58 PM EDT
[#8]
No. You're agreeing with atf that it's been a gray area that under the new rule is an sbr.
You're accepting their deal to clarify the situation. ATF says they 'should' have been SBRs all along. They also say owners bought or built them in reasonable good faith belief that they were legal. That's an awfully strong poisoning of their own case if they intend to trap people into 'admitting guilt'. AND there is a statute preventing using an application as evidence of guilt. If you think registering is a political agreement with atf that the gun is an SBR, fine, don't do it. Supposed legal exposure is a nothingburger. |
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Posted: 5/24/2023 2:12:28 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Does this mean they stop processing tax free Form 1s? It would be nice if they'd process my paid Form 1 from January. |
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Posted: 5/24/2023 2:13:33 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It would be nice if they'd process my paid Form 1 from January. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Does this mean they stop processing tax free Form 1s? It would be nice if they'd process my paid Form 1 from January. "Best we can do is send you to the back of the line. Thanks for your comment." |
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Posted: 5/24/2023 2:53:25 PM EDT
[#11]
This temporary injunction really means nothing at this point.. It is easy to get a temp injunction pending a full hearing..My guess is in a month or so we will be be right back where we were yesterday..In the same clusterfuck the ATF has put this into..
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Posted: 5/24/2023 3:06:03 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Speculation is it will cover everyone who was an FPC member prior to the judgement This speculation is only coming from fpc members who were members prior to the judgement, lol |
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Posted: 5/24/2023 3:40:33 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This temporary injunction really means nothing at this point.. It is easy to get a temp injunction pending a full hearing..My guess is in a month or so we will be be right back where we were yesterday..In the same clusterfuck the ATF has put this into.. |
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Posted: 5/24/2023 3:54:51 PM EDT
[#14]
Focus should be on the NFA. Not braces. But still.
Edit-I just want some sbr’s out of this ruling. I’d rather sbr’s and suppressors be removed entirely from the nfa, but you gotta take what you can get I guess. Baby steps. |
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Posted: 5/24/2023 4:07:35 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Focus should be on the NFA. Not braces. But still. Edit-I just want some sbr’s out of this ruling. I’d rather sbr’s and suppressors be removed entirely from the nfa, but you gotta take what you can get I guess. Baby steps. You misspelled NFA thrown out and ATF disbanded. 
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Posted: 5/24/2023 4:19:47 PM EDT
[#16]
Donated and bump
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Posted: 5/24/2023 5:15:29 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Unless somethings changed, isn’t by doing the tax free form, you’re admiting to it always been an sbr? No |
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Posted: 5/24/2023 5:27:06 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Nobody NEEDS true amnesty for this because they've committed no prosecutable crime. ATF very publicly admits there is a gray area partly of their own making. The rule itself only proves they felt they had to change things to make braces prosecutable. As you say, in the full amnesty one could be absolutely in clear violation of the law and register. If this were a full amnesty you could register an SBR with a stock for free so they were never going to do that. The idea that they may prosecute for doing as directed is dystopian fantasy. Even if they tried they'd have to find a DA to actively participate and judge and jury to go along with blatant entrapment. After all that, add in the statute that makes filing for a registration not admissible evidence for prosecution. How does this even relate to the status of the registration? They're giving the same 'permanent' paperwork as ever except for exempting the tax. The contingency is only that you didn't lie about being eligible. Ex grab 10 registered lowers for free that never had braces. The tax forbearance only means the program is temporary and they'll go back to charging everybody. If it were a legal forbearance in the individual sense there would be an expiration date and/or condition specified. You can be damn sure that any entity that gives you a legal 'forbearance' on anything clearly states the extent! If they did invalidate the free registration so what? DNC or remove the brace/stock, then pay the 200 if you choose and put it back on. There are good reasons to take an option other than registration but "admitting a felony", "not an amnesty" and "temporary forbearance" are all full of shit. It's probably futile to argue because even 10 years from now when those things haven't happened nobody will admit they were wrong. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: They have given you a forbearance on the tax. That’s it. That’s all. No Amnesty. In 1968 you could have been a three time felon that stole a rack of M-16s from the national guard Armory down the street and you could’ve registered them with no repercussions. NONE. Because of the amnesty that the ATF wrote back then. Do you think that all of those ATF attorneys and the .gov after years of looking at this forgot to write that into this one? Please. Nobody NEEDS true amnesty for this because they've committed no prosecutable crime. ATF very publicly admits there is a gray area partly of their own making. The rule itself only proves they felt they had to change things to make braces prosecutable. As you say, in the full amnesty one could be absolutely in clear violation of the law and register. If this were a full amnesty you could register an SBR with a stock for free so they were never going to do that. The idea that they may prosecute for doing as directed is dystopian fantasy. Even if they tried they'd have to find a DA to actively participate and judge and jury to go along with blatant entrapment. After all that, add in the statute that makes filing for a registration not admissible evidence for prosecution. How does this even relate to the status of the registration? They're giving the same 'permanent' paperwork as ever except for exempting the tax. The contingency is only that you didn't lie about being eligible. Ex grab 10 registered lowers for free that never had braces. The tax forbearance only means the program is temporary and they'll go back to charging everybody. If it were a legal forbearance in the individual sense there would be an expiration date and/or condition specified. You can be damn sure that any entity that gives you a legal 'forbearance' on anything clearly states the extent! If they did invalidate the free registration so what? DNC or remove the brace/stock, then pay the 200 if you choose and put it back on. There are good reasons to take an option other than registration but "admitting a felony", "not an amnesty" and "temporary forbearance" are all full of shit. It's probably futile to argue because even 10 years from now when those things haven't happened nobody will admit they were wrong. Where's the screenshot from the attestation page of the forbearance form? I recall it saying you agreed the firearm was always a SBR and it's possession was a felony except for the registration you are submitting? You're admitting to a felony which they are ignoring and they are not collecting the tax, but it's not an amnesty for anyone with any braced pistol whatsoever. Kharn |
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Posted: 5/24/2023 5:31:56 PM EDT
[#19]
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Posted: 5/24/2023 5:35:18 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If you're the government it is. If you're a plaintiff trying to enjoin a law from taking effect, it isn't. You have to show likelihood of success on the merits of the case among other things. Granting this means the three judge panel in the 5th Circuit thinks it is more likely than not that Mock, FPC, et al are going to win this. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: This temporary injunction really means nothing at this point.. It is easy to get a temp injunction pending a full hearing..My guess is in a month or so we will be be right back where we were yesterday..In the same clusterfuck the ATF has put this into.. 
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Posted: 5/24/2023 5:41:00 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: @fsjdw2 ATF has always considered rare breed triggers to be machineguns. If you read the bumpstock ruling it's clear they considered devices like the FRT to be machineguns and had for over a decade. Same thing with auto gloves and Akins accelerators. Really? Then why has Delmonico never been arrested and remains out and about with his family? Why is the company still in business although not selling triggers? |
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Posted: 5/24/2023 5:49:59 PM EDT
[#22]
So are they extending the deadline or what?
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Posted: 5/24/2023 5:59:05 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Focus should be on the NFA. Not braces. But still. Edit-I just want some sbr’s out of this ruling. I’d rather sbr’s and suppressors be removed entirely from the nfa, but you gotta take what you can get I guess. Baby steps. This had to be done, and had to be done, now. That said, I do agree that the NFA needs to start getting attacked legally. The Hughes amendment is a great starting place post NYSRPA v. Bruen. 1986 is a long way from the ratification of the bill of rights. There's no logical argument the government can make under existing law that will allow them to ban "these" machineguns, but not "those." They could try "Dangerous and Unusual," but that still doesn't work because: Pre May guns are absolutely identical to post May guns. One can't be dangerous and unusual without it's identical twin, manufactured a day later being the same. I'd love to see a table with four MG's on it, and ask the government's "expert" to explain which of them are "Dangerous and Unusual" and which are not. And why. It's also a law (amendment to GCA68), which I think makes it a more straightforward case than the current ATF's "redefinition of words" type cases we're in right now with the Chevron stuff, etc. |
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Posted: 5/24/2023 6:08:12 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Nobody NEEDS true amnesty for this because they've committed no prosecutable crime. ATF very publicly admits there is a gray area partly of their own making. The rule itself only proves they felt they had to change things to make braces prosecutable. As you say, in the full amnesty one could be absolutely in clear violation of the law and register. If this were a full amnesty you could register an SBR with a stock for free so they were never going to do that. The idea that they may prosecute for doing as directed is dystopian fantasy. Even if they tried they'd have to find a DA to actively participate and judge and jury to go along with blatant entrapment. After all that, add in the statute that makes filing for a registration not admissible evidence for prosecution. How does this even relate to the status of the registration? They're giving the same 'permanent' paperwork as ever except for exempting the tax. The contingency is only that you didn't lie about being eligible. Ex grab 10 registered lowers for free that never had braces. The tax forbearance only means the program is temporary and they'll go back to charging everybody. If it were a legal forbearance in the individual sense there would be an expiration date and/or condition specified. You can be damn sure that any entity that gives you a legal 'forbearance' on anything clearly states the extent! If they did invalidate the free registration so what? DNC or remove the brace/stock, then pay the 200 if you choose and put it back on. There are good reasons to take an option other than registration but "admitting a felony", "not an amnesty" and "temporary forbearance" are all full of shit. It's probably futile to argue because even 10 years from now when those things haven't happened nobody will admit they were wrong. LOL. Now do the suppressor form 1's that they came after me and so many others recently in a dystopian fantasy fashion. |
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Posted: 5/24/2023 6:11:33 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: https://youtu.be/P1EIjrqvjCo Hot Link to Video Who does this apply to? Everyone needs to watch the video I linked. I went to law school, i used to practice law. Mark Smith and the Four Boxes Diner is the best 2A law resource I’ve ever found. He really knows his stuff and doesn’t engage in hyperbole and clickbait. He’s as legit as it gets. He gets into who is covered and why the legal question isn’t as clear as we would like. I’ll take his analysis over folks in this thread. FPC asked for an injunction that covers everyone, because it's impossible to scope smaller and avoid serious negative effects. Court approved the injunction request and did not clearly articulate a limited scope. |
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Posted: 5/24/2023 6:18:42 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This temporary injunction really means nothing at this point.. It is easy to get a temp injunction pending a full hearing..My guess is in a month or so we will be be right back where we were yesterday..In the same clusterfuck the ATF has put this into.. Quote HistoryQuoted: This temporary injunction really means nothing at this point.. It is easy to get a temp injunction pending a full hearing..My guess is in a month or so we will be be right back where we were yesterday..In the same clusterfuck the ATF has put this into.. I thought they were responding to the FPC on June 2nd.... so they can no doubt say the issue is now moot because the implementation date has passed. We have a breaking news update for all gun owners who wish to know if being a member of FPC protects them under the pistol brace injunction issued yesterday. The Judge in FPC's case Mock v. Garland has set a date for the response to our Motion for Clarification on June 2nd, 2023. |
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Posted: 5/24/2023 6:56:50 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Really? Then why has Delmonico never been arrested and remains out and about with his family? Why is the company still in business although not selling triggers? |
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Posted: 5/24/2023 8:08:19 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: LOL. Now do the suppressor form 1's that they came after me and so many others recently in a dystopian fantasy fashion. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Nobody NEEDS true amnesty for this because they've committed no prosecutable crime. ATF very publicly admits there is a gray area partly of their own making. The rule itself only proves they felt they had to change things to make braces prosecutable. As you say, in the full amnesty one could be absolutely in clear violation of the law and register. If this were a full amnesty you could register an SBR with a stock for free so they were never going to do that. The idea that they may prosecute for doing as directed is dystopian fantasy. Even if they tried they'd have to find a DA to actively participate and judge and jury to go along with blatant entrapment. After all that, add in the statute that makes filing for a registration not admissible evidence for prosecution. How does this even relate to the status of the registration? They're giving the same 'permanent' paperwork as ever except for exempting the tax. The contingency is only that you didn't lie about being eligible. Ex grab 10 registered lowers for free that never had braces. The tax forbearance only means the program is temporary and they'll go back to charging everybody. If it were a legal forbearance in the individual sense there would be an expiration date and/or condition specified. You can be damn sure that any entity that gives you a legal 'forbearance' on anything clearly states the extent! If they did invalidate the free registration so what? DNC or remove the brace/stock, then pay the 200 if you choose and put it back on. There are good reasons to take an option other than registration but "admitting a felony", "not an amnesty" and "temporary forbearance" are all full of shit. It's probably futile to argue because even 10 years from now when those things haven't happened nobody will admit they were wrong. LOL. Now do the suppressor form 1's that they came after me and so many others recently in a dystopian fantasy fashion. You can lead a horse to water but some horses will continue to trust the wacko (Waco) ATF. 
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Posted: 5/24/2023 8:11:59 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: "Best we can do is send you to the back of the line. Thanks for your comment." Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Does this mean they stop processing tax free Form 1s? It would be nice if they'd process my paid Form 1 from January. "Best we can do is send you to the back of the line. Thanks for your comment." Thank you for my service!
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Posted: 5/25/2023 4:19:45 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: We have Reagan’s NFA. Either Reagan’s NFA means something or it doesn’t. I reckon it means something to y’all’s political representatives because Trump had two years where he could have made the NFA go away. The ATF basically telling manufacturers that a lower is either a SBR lower or a Rifle lower is not the ATF overstepping their authority; it is the ATF properly enforcing Regan’s NFA ( regardless of how we feel about the NFA ). If the 5th says that the ATF is overstepping their authority then the fifth is really saying authority was overstepped in the eighty’s when Reagan signed the NFA. This would be a good thing ! But, The NFA has done nothing wrong with this brace thing and I am not retarded because the NFA does currently exist. Apologize now. Wtf are you talking about? |
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Posted: 5/25/2023 4:30:06 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So are they extending the deadline or what? Nope, must be compliant by 5/31 unless you live in the 5th circuit and want to roll the dice that it will be delayed or overturned. It could be reversed again too before 5/31. Have a plan to resolve by 5/31. |
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Posted: 5/25/2023 4:43:03 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Wtf are you talking about? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: We have Reagan’s NFA. Either Reagan’s NFA means something or it doesn’t. I reckon it means something to y’all’s political representatives because Trump had two years where he could have made the NFA go away. The ATF basically telling manufacturers that a lower is either a SBR lower or a Rifle lower is not the ATF overstepping their authority; it is the ATF properly enforcing Regan’s NFA ( regardless of how we feel about the NFA ). If the 5th says that the ATF is overstepping their authority then the fifth is really saying authority was overstepped in the eighty’s when Reagan signed the NFA. This would be a good thing ! But, The NFA has done nothing wrong with this brace thing and I am not retarded because the NFA does currently exist. Apologize now. Wtf are you talking about? Guessing he's confusing NFA with Firearms Owners Protection Act which has the Hughes Amendment blocking additions to the machine gun registry. |
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Posted: 5/25/2023 5:12:53 PM EDT
[#33]
The problem with the amnesty is the original 68 gca has no provisions for a single item amnesty. It was intended to be used more than once and it only allowed I think for 90 days maximum. The atf is again making up rules.
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Posted: 5/25/2023 5:26:05 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Nope, must be compliant by 5/31 unless you live in the 5th circuit and want to roll the dice that it will be delayed or overturned. It could be reversed again too before 5/31. Have a plan to resolve by 5/31. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: So are they extending the deadline or what? Nope, must be compliant by 5/31 unless you live in the 5th circuit and want to roll the dice that it will be delayed or overturned. It could be reversed again too before 5/31. Have a plan to resolve by 5/31. I’d like to see some official clarification on this, heck on any of this. Basically no one even knows about about this supposed rule change except hard core gun guys, people who this rule will affect and potentially turn into felons don’t have a clue this crap even exists. |
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Posted: 5/25/2023 5:42:41 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: My problem with that is you are in writing admitting you broke the law and asking forgiveness. Could that come back an haunt you later on because they change rules and could just make up anyone who did the amnesty now we are going to say it was not an amnesty but a way to get people to admit they broke the law. Now that you admitted you broke the law you forfeit your right to own firearms. These people are making it up as they go along first braces were ok then they were not if you shouldered them and then they were ok to shoulder if that was not the main intent. The goal post keeps moving and I could see them ripping the rug out from under us all. Careful, I pointed this out in another thread and a newb mod literally had a vaginal discharge about it. |
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Posted: 5/25/2023 6:21:59 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Careful, I pointed this out in another thread and a newb mod literally had a vaginal discharge about it. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: My problem with that is you are in writing admitting you broke the law and asking forgiveness. Could that come back an haunt you later on because they change rules and could just make up anyone who did the amnesty now we are going to say it was not an amnesty but a way to get people to admit they broke the law. Now that you admitted you broke the law you forfeit your right to own firearms. These people are making it up as they go along first braces were ok then they were not if you shouldered them and then they were ok to shoulder if that was not the main intent. The goal post keeps moving and I could see them ripping the rug out from under us all. Careful, I pointed this out in another thread and a newb mod literally had a vaginal discharge about it. I think a lot of people are selectively parsing it and reading what they want to read, rather than reading it exactly as it is written. |
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Posted: 5/25/2023 6:24:46 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: We have Reagan’s NFA. Either Reagan’s NFA means something or it doesn’t. I reckon it means something to y’all’s political representatives because Trump had two years where he could have made the NFA go away. The ATF basically telling manufacturers that a lower is either a SBR lower or a Rifle lower is not the ATF overstepping their authority; it is the ATF properly enforcing Regan’s NFA ( regardless of how we feel about the NFA ). If the 5th says that the ATF is overstepping their authority then the fifth is really saying authority was overstepped in the eighty’s when Reagan signed the NFA. This would be a good thing ! But, The NFA has done nothing wrong with this brace thing and I am not retarded because the NFA does currently exist. Apologize now. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Either the NFA is the NFA or it’s not. Strike down the perfectly reasonable ATF judgement on this ( based on existing NFA guidance ) and the NFA is 100% modified to no longer include length ( at least ! ). Not sure if sarcasm or retarded We have Reagan’s NFA. Either Reagan’s NFA means something or it doesn’t. I reckon it means something to y’all’s political representatives because Trump had two years where he could have made the NFA go away. The ATF basically telling manufacturers that a lower is either a SBR lower or a Rifle lower is not the ATF overstepping their authority; it is the ATF properly enforcing Regan’s NFA ( regardless of how we feel about the NFA ). If the 5th says that the ATF is overstepping their authority then the fifth is really saying authority was overstepped in the eighty’s when Reagan signed the NFA. This would be a good thing ! But, The NFA has done nothing wrong with this brace thing and I am not retarded because the NFA does currently exist. Apologize now. That's awesome. Now do Immigration Law. |
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Posted: 5/25/2023 6:40:41 PM EDT
[#38]
Second injunction granted.
Unfortunately, second verse, same as the first.  SECOND INJUNCTION on Pistol Brace Rule: But there IS A Catch! Second Amendment Foundation v ATF |
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Posted: 5/25/2023 6:43:33 PM EDT
[#39]
New evidence is coming for us. Be patient
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Posted: 5/25/2023 6:47:16 PM EDT
[#40]
dollars to dog shit says there will be a pistol brace false-flag event before this gets much farther
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Posted: 5/25/2023 6:52:36 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: dollars to dog shit says there will be a pistol brace false-flag event before this gets much farther I'm thinking the guy in the U-Haul either forgot his at home, or the feds hadn't gotten around to providing him one yet.  Attached File |
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Posted: 5/25/2023 6:56:23 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I think a lot of people are selectively parsing it and reading what they want to read, rather than reading it exactly as it is written. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: My problem with that is you are in writing admitting you broke the law and asking forgiveness. Could that come back an haunt you later on because they change rules and could just make up anyone who did the amnesty now we are going to say it was not an amnesty but a way to get people to admit they broke the law. Now that you admitted you broke the law you forfeit your right to own firearms. These people are making it up as they go along first braces were ok then they were not if you shouldered them and then they were ok to shoulder if that was not the main intent. The goal post keeps moving and I could see them ripping the rug out from under us all. Careful, I pointed this out in another thread and a newb mod literally had a vaginal discharge about it. I think a lot of people are selectively parsing it and reading what they want to read, rather than reading it exactly as it is written. The date is the important part. On 5/31 they were always illegal. Before that, they are legal. Getting your forbearance before 5/31 (form sent in) it wasn’t illegal and should have no repercussions. (But the AFT sucks so you never know) |
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Posted: 5/25/2023 7:01:37 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Second injunction granted. Unfortunately, second verse, same as the first.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FB_XoL3ySAYWhat’s the second injunction? I can’t watch that video right now. All the others I watched earlier today were click bait showing nothing new. |
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Posted: 5/25/2023 7:02:21 PM EDT
[#44]
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Posted: 5/25/2023 7:06:22 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: We have Reagan’s NFA. Either Reagan’s NFA means something or it doesn’t. I reckon it means something to y’all’s political representatives because Trump had two years where he could have made the NFA go away. The ATF basically telling manufacturers that a lower is either a SBR lower or a Rifle lower is not the ATF overstepping their authority; it is the ATF properly enforcing Regan’s NFA ( regardless of how we feel about the NFA ). If the 5th says that the ATF is overstepping their authority then the fifth is really saying authority was overstepped in the eighty’s when Reagan signed the NFA. This would be a good thing ! But, The NFA has done nothing wrong with this brace thing and I am not retarded because the NFA does currently exist. Apologize now. ATF is NOT properly enforcing the NFA, because they already (multiple times) gave letters stating the braces were legal, then, after millions were made, arbitrarily and capriciously decided that NOW they are illegal and made thousands, if not millions, of Americans instant felons. |
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Posted: 5/25/2023 7:07:36 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: dollars to dog shit says there will be a pistol brace false-flag event before this gets much farther |
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Posted: 5/25/2023 7:20:36 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What’s the second injunction? I can’t watch that video right now. All the others I watched earlier today were click bait showing nothing new. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Second injunction granted. Unfortunately, second verse, same as the first. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FB_XoL3ySAYWhat’s the second injunction? I can’t watch that video right now. All the others I watched earlier today were click bait showing nothing new. I'm not sure. He just posted it an hour ago and I can't find any other source mentioning a second injunction, so I assume it's new. He says it's "out of the Norther District Court of Texas", but I don't think he said the names of the plaintiffs or defendants. I listened to it again, and still don't think I heard the specific names. Maybe someone who knows will chime in. Nolo just posted in the other thread, this is not his case. He also said that there's a third case about to be ruled on. Hopefully it will include everyone nationwide. eta. Just found this with a bit more info on who's who. https://thereload.com/second-federal-judge-expands-block-on-biden-pistol-brace-ban-as-registration-deadline-approaches/ Second Federal Judge Expands Block on Biden Pistol-Brace Ban as Registration Deadline Approaches Jake Fogleman May 25, 2023 5:57 pm Another federal court has cast doubt on the legality of one of President Biden’s unilateral attempts at implementing new gun restrictions. United States District Judge Jane L. Boyle of the Northern District of Texas issued a preliminary injunction against the ATF’s ban on pistols equipped with stabilizing braces on Thursday in the case Second Amendment Foundation (SAF) v. ATF. Drawing on the injunction issued against the ban on Tuesday by a three-judge panel of the Fifth Circuit Court of Appeals, Boyle said similar concerns over administrative procedure and Second Amendment rights were at issue in the case before her court. She limited her injunction to just the plaintiffs in the lawsuit. “Although the Fifth Circuit’s order limited relief to the plaintiffs in that case, the Court finds the same relief is appropriate here,” Boyle wrote in her order. “And while Plaintiffs raise some arguments that were not raised in Mock, the resolution of that appeal will almost certainly affect, if not control, the Court’s decision on Plaintiffs’ Motion. For these reasons, the Court GRANTS IN PART the Motion and issues a preliminary injunction as to Plaintiffs in this case only, pending resolution of the expedited appeal in Mock v. Garland.” The ruling represents a bittersweet victory for gun-rights advocates who have fought to have the pistol brace ban tossed since the ATF finalized it earlier this year. While the injunction will provide a slight reprieve for the pistol brace-owning plaintiffs in the case ahead of the end of the ban’s amnesty period this month, its limited nature may leave millions of brace owners at risk of federal prosecution unless they register their braced firearms with the government beginning in June. More at the link. This was SAF v ATF, and I believe Nolo's case is GOA v ATF, so maybe his case is the third case Tom Grieve mentioned. |
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Posted: 5/25/2023 10:11:04 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Or even just gets reported that a braced ar assault full semi automatic pistol was used. Hell, there doesn't even need to be an AR at all. They can just do what they always do and claim it was the Boogeyman. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: dollars to dog shit says there will be a pistol brace false-flag event before this gets much farther But the weird flex is that it is on pistol braces, not Glock Switches. So, essentially, not a program to save lives, but a program to get numbers. Massive numbers. To squeeze later? There is a reason they are going this route. |
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Posted: 5/25/2023 10:17:21 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: But the weird flex is that it is on pistol braces, not Glock Switches. So, essentially, not a program to save lives, but a program to get numbers. Massive numbers. To squeeze later? There is a reason they are going this route. They're afraid of the gang bangers with Glock switches. They'd rather target families. |
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Posted: 5/25/2023 10:23:35 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: But the weird flex is that it is on pistol braces, not Glock Switches. So, essentially, not a program to save lives, but a program to get numbers. Massive numbers. To squeeze later? There is a reason they are going this route. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: dollars to dog shit says there will be a pistol brace false-flag event before this gets much farther But the weird flex is that it is on pistol braces, not Glock Switches. So, essentially, not a program to save lives, but a program to get numbers. Massive numbers. To squeeze later? There is a reason they are going this route. Fighting criminals is hard, so no crack down on inner city switch users. |
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