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Posted: 7/6/2022 3:41:26 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Demographic contraction == Employee's market. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: That's how it works. Booming economy = Employee's market Recessive economy = Employer's market I hate employer's market. They'll lump everything that they can on you, and in most cases, you'll have to eat it. Demographic contraction == Employee's market. My guess is opportunity will remain high for skilled, competent people who are willing to work hard when rewarded appropriately. |
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Posted: 7/6/2022 5:09:49 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I wouldn't leave my company for a $10k raise, but I make a lot more than $70k. If you don't want employees to leave for little salary increases, offer a larger salary. 70k for an engineer sounds underpaid. I worked 14 hours and was paid for 8 yesterday. I'll probably be doing the same today. t.millennial worker. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Young millenial employees are horrible. I had a 1st year ME graduate resign for $10k more a year. Took a job 50 miles away for $10k more. He was making mid $70k salary, just got a 10% bonus, a raise, had 401k, full med benes (80/20 with $250 deductible), dental. He was a Project Engineer, very empowered, was good at most of what he did. Millenials cannot take any criticizim of their work. I had to start to get involved with his projects once he gave notice, and I started calling him out on a lot of it. He told me to stop being condescending, and a day later he walked out. 3 days into his 2 weeks. Fuck them. I hope their egos get crushed by whats coming. I wouldn't leave my company for a $10k raise, but I make a lot more than $70k. If you don't want employees to leave for little salary increases, offer a larger salary. 70k for an engineer sounds underpaid. I worked 14 hours and was paid for 8 yesterday. I'll probably be doing the same today. t.millennial worker. You should hear attorneys talking. $50-70k starting is still considered good in most markets |
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Posted: 7/6/2022 5:45:58 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: "I'm not getting my way so I'll just import more illegals and destroy society for my personal benefit That will show you!" $4.7 million in compensation lol https://s29.q4cdn.com/773189526/files/images/management/2022/Dan_Greenleaf-Portrait-(1).jpg This kind of guy is a GIANT reason people turn to socialists and democrats. 
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Posted: 7/6/2022 5:50:55 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You mean like the rude awakening that every preceding generation has experienced multiple times? Good grief, none of this is new or special…it’s part of life. It's new to the "Phone/Soy Latte/I want to be fulfilled Generation. |
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Posted: 7/6/2022 6:03:17 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This all just screams BOOMER. What it really screams is intellectually incurious generations fostered by a failed education system. Blaming "Boomers" is the last gasp of those who refuse to take responsibility for themselves. Get ready for your post "Boomer" economy. LOL Your new leftist overlords will demand you make up the taxation deficit. It's going to be painful, we paid A LOT of taxes. So, thank the Boomers. Those of us who have earned and paid taxes to give you an easy life.....it's going to be a lot less easy as we die off and you owe a society that demands more. Insert John Galt here...Google it.  Fortunately for you, Biden is importing labor...oh wait. |
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Posted: 7/6/2022 6:12:13 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Young millenial employees are horrible. I had a 1st year ME graduate resign for $10k more a year. Took a job 50 miles away for $10k more. He was making mid $70k salary, just got a 10% bonus, a raise, had 401k, full med benes (80/20 with $250 deductible), dental. He was a Project Engineer, very empowered, was good at most of what he did. Millenials cannot take any criticizim of their work. I had to start to get involved with his projects once he gave notice, and I started calling him out on a lot of it. He told me to stop being condescending, and a day later he walked out. 3 days into his 2 weeks. Fuck them. I hope their egos get crushed by whats coming. Yeah, those damn Millennials going elsewhere for ~14% raise that you probably refused to give him with some BS excuse. The nerve of those guys, wanting to get paid market rate for their services. The days when the boss could piss down your back and call it rain 'because there are hundreds of other people that want your job' were definitely so much better. 
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Posted: 7/6/2022 6:12:16 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Young millenial employees are horrible. I had a 1st year ME graduate resign for $10k more a year. Took a job 50 miles away for $10k more. He was making mid $70k salary, just got a 10% bonus, a raise, had 401k, full med benes (80/20 with $250 deductible), dental. He was a Project Engineer, very empowered, was good at most of what he did. Millenials cannot take any criticizim of their work. I had to start to get involved with his projects once he gave notice, and I started calling him out on a lot of it. He told me to stop being condescending, and a day later he walked out. 3 days into his 2 weeks. Fuck them. I hope their egos get crushed by whats coming. Quote HistoryQuoted: Young millenial employees are horrible. I had a 1st year ME graduate resign for $10k more a year. Took a job 50 miles away for $10k more. He was making mid $70k salary, just got a 10% bonus, a raise, had 401k, full med benes (80/20 with $250 deductible), dental. He was a Project Engineer, very empowered, was good at most of what he did. Millenials cannot take any criticizim of their work. I had to start to get involved with his projects once he gave notice, and I started calling him out on a lot of it. He told me to stop being condescending, and a day later he walked out. 3 days into his 2 weeks. Fuck them. I hope their egos get crushed by whats coming. Quoted: Literally months out of college with no experience, in a depressed shithole of an area who couldn't finish some of the basics of his job - very basic stuff? He was talented in design, but following through with the final 5% of the job (detailing, BOM, shop prints) was non existent... but he's worth 6 figures? Ok. People like you are why people like me hate to be in business. I barely make over 6 figures, and I destroy myself here day and night. Try it sometime. I'll do it myself, it'll be done right, and I won't have to worry about it being fucked up. "Fuckin' lazy entitled millennials! How dare they...*shuffles notes*...find a job paying more, somewhere else!" 
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Posted: 7/6/2022 6:35:51 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What it really screams is intellectually incurious generations fostered by a failed education system. Blaming "Boomers" is the last gasp of those who refuse to take responsibility for themselves. Get ready for your post "Boomer" economy. LOL Your new leftist overlords will demand you make up the taxation deficit. It's going to be painful, we paid A LOT of taxes. So, thank the Boomers. Those of us who have earned and paid taxes to give you an easy life.....it's going to be a lot less easy as we die off and you owe a society that demands more. Insert John Galt here...Google it. Fortunately for you, Biden is importing labor...oh wait. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: This all just screams BOOMER. What it really screams is intellectually incurious generations fostered by a failed education system. Blaming "Boomers" is the last gasp of those who refuse to take responsibility for themselves. Get ready for your post "Boomer" economy. LOL Your new leftist overlords will demand you make up the taxation deficit. It's going to be painful, we paid A LOT of taxes. So, thank the Boomers. Those of us who have earned and paid taxes to give you an easy life.....it's going to be a lot less easy as we die off and you owe a society that demands more. Insert John Galt here...Google it. Fortunately for you, Biden is importing labor...oh wait. It’s been a post Boomer economy for a while now. Gen X and Millennials pay the most taxes and are the largest percentage of the workforce. You should probably update your talking points. |
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Posted: 7/6/2022 6:49:33 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Young millenial employees are horrible. I had a 1st year ME graduate resign for $10k more a year. Took a job 50 miles away for $10k more. He was making mid $70k salary, just got a 10% bonus, a raise, had 401k, full med benes (80/20 with $250 deductible), dental. He was a Project Engineer, very empowered, was good at most of what he did. Millenials cannot take any criticizim of their work. I had to start to get involved with his projects once he gave notice, and I started calling him out on a lot of it. He told me to stop being condescending, and a day later he walked out. 3 days into his 2 weeks. Fuck them. I hope their egos get crushed by whats coming. So after you found out he was leaving you started fucking with him and instead of putting up with it the dude just left. Lol. |
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Posted: 7/6/2022 6:57:05 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What it really screams is intellectually incurious generations fostered by a failed education system. Blaming "Boomers" is the last gasp of those who refuse to take responsibility for themselves. Get ready for your post "Boomer" economy. LOL Your new leftist overlords will demand you make up the taxation deficit. It's going to be painful, we paid A LOT of taxes. So, thank the Boomers. Those of us who have earned and paid taxes to give you an easy life.....it's going to be a lot less easy as we die off and you owe a society that demands more. Insert John Galt here...Google it. Fortunately for you, Biden is importing labor...oh wait. Boomers were raised in a somewhat functioning society and undermined it at every turn while breaking every reciprocal deal that makes society function. Especially the parts meant to bring new people to maturity. Millennials and Zoomers were raised in that broken system, and now are shit on by their worthless elders for not single-handedly reinventing all of civilization. Fortunately the kids do have a sense of whats missing and are trying to learn. But life is complicated and you can't go from zero to everything works with a snap of the finger. It's almost like there was a reason for conserving civilization.... |
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Posted: 7/6/2022 8:31:41 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: “You’re all ungrateful and lazy, that’s why I took our business to India! Now you’ll suffer, hahahahaha….. and my employee issues had nothing to do with pay or work environment. You should be thankful I even allowed you in my company!” Yep. I hate the recent overuse of "toxic", but the standard "employer's market" management attitudes are every bit as toxic as the "I want 150k and 5 weeks off day one" attitude of young employees the last few years. Both extremes are fucking ridiculous, and one creates the other repeatedly as the pendulum swings. |
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Posted: 7/6/2022 8:36:10 PM EDT
[#12]
Probably not. If a recession hits the feds will probably roll out some form of "recession relief" program else there will be threats of riots.
Once a country goes down the socialist path there's no turning back. |
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Posted: 7/6/2022 8:39:34 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Probably not. If a recession hits the feds will probably roll out some form of "recession relief" program else there will be threats of riots. Once a country goes down the socialist path there's no turning back. That is some high grade ignorance of history. America was completely immersed in socialism for decades; it only started to come out of it in the 80s. |
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Posted: 7/6/2022 8:56:33 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That is some high grade ignorance of history. America was completely immersed in socialism for decades; it only started to come out of it in the 80s. I hope you're not claiming Reagan's cuts saved America from socialism. All those programs have expanded by billions (likely near hundreds of billions) since then. |
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Posted: 7/6/2022 8:58:30 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Perhaps, but with boomer retirement in full swing, the labor market has become permanently tighter. We're at 3.6% unemployment with 11.5 million open jobs. That's 0.1% off the lowest recorded unemployment level. US corporate management culture hasn't adjusted to the shift in the employee / employer balance of power that has occurred. Current management and HR practices are predicated on the labor glut that has persisted for the past 30+ years due to the size of the baby boom generation. Employers assume they can lowball workers on compensation and easily replace those who don't like it. That is no longer a reasonable assumption. |
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Posted: 7/6/2022 9:11:43 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I hope you're not claiming Reagan's cuts saved America from socialism. All those programs have expanded by billions (likely near hundreds of billions) since then. No. I'm saying that he was the start of a process of moving away from socialism that is still ongoing. And it actually was beginning before Regan got in; the Staggers Act for example was signed into law under Carter. Even the "right wing" in this country used to think things that we would be horrified by now. Part of the reason the GOP is such a problem is it's all people who grew up in the era when everyone thought universal government was inevitable. Because you do not know history you misidentify what is going on now as The Enemy being victorious, rather than collapsing and thrashing around in their death throes. |
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Posted: 7/7/2022 9:57:26 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So after you found out he was leaving you started fucking with him and instead of putting up with it the dude just left. Lol. Yea but it was his fault cuz he didn't do the final 5% the documentation part exactly right.... I'd be willing to bet of the kid who left was here, there is more to the story about a boomer boss that micromanaged and wasn't generally great to work for. |
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Posted: 7/7/2022 10:06:33 AM EDT
[#18]
This thread is gold
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Posted: 7/7/2022 11:56:56 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You mean like the rude awakening that every preceding generation has experienced multiple times? Good grief, none of this is new or special…it’s part of life. Yep. My father was laid off when my brother was born, and he was laid off when I was born. I was laid off when my son was born. It's a family thing.  It happens more often than people think. You do your job well, give 100%, and you still get laid off. It sucks, but it happens. |
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Posted: 7/7/2022 1:01:34 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This thread is gold These threads always are. |
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Posted: 7/7/2022 1:14:13 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Perhaps that causes the youthful workers to liquidate the woke DEI types at companies. I've seen this script before.  Attached File |
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Posted: 7/7/2022 1:16:27 PM EDT
[#22]
Lol at guys saying they just wont work for such companies, once this shit really gets going, choice will be shit employer or starve,
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Posted: 7/7/2022 1:36:22 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Lol at guys saying they just wont work for such companies, once this shit really gets going, choice will be shit employer or starve, All deals are two-way. And there aren't enough people to make it a buyer's market in labor. |
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Posted: 7/7/2022 1:40:03 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That is some high grade ignorance of history. America was completely immersed in socialism for decades; it only started to come out of it in the 80s. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Probably not. If a recession hits the feds will probably roll out some form of "recession relief" program else there will be threats of riots. Once a country goes down the socialist path there's no turning back. That is some high grade ignorance of history. America was completely immersed in socialism for decades; it only started to come out of it in the 80s. lol |
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Posted: 7/7/2022 1:51:39 PM EDT
[#25]
That shit’s boomer as fuck.
Clearly the author had an amazingly different experience for about a decade following ‘08 than the rest of the country. |
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Posted: 7/7/2022 1:54:40 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yep. I hate the recent overuse of "toxic", but the standard "employer's market" management attitudes are every bit as toxic as the "I want 150k and 5 weeks off day one" attitude of young employees the last few years. Both extremes are fucking ridiculous, and one creates the other repeatedly as the pendulum swings. @sav_carguy Base salaries north of $150k are common in software engineering and so are 4+ week PTO packages, outside of global consulting sweatshops. |
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Posted: 7/7/2022 2:02:16 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Perhaps that causes the youthful workers to liquidate the woke DEI types at companies. I've seen this script before. DEI, ESG, etc. is only viable because of the extreme wealth and stability generated since the 80's. That's coming to an end very quickly. No onr gives a fuck about your pronouns when you can't afford food, gas, or heat. |
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Posted: 7/7/2022 2:07:37 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Laughable, especially in healthcare IT. Quote HistoryQuoted: We've found the same level of talent as in the U.S. Yea, I eye-rolled at that one too. Nice article to justify Indian sourced call centers, is how I read that one. Who knew they forsaw the need to do that before COVID was even a thing - Wizards! |
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Posted: 7/7/2022 2:10:12 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: "Workers will feel fortunate to commit to a company and think about moving up rather than moving on. " That would mean companies would have to demonstrate promoting from within vs hiring from outside like they normally do. Because most of the folks I know that have changed companies is due to it being easier to "get promoted" somewhere else than the employer they've been with for 3-4 years. It's still true. And it's fucking idiotic. |
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Posted: 7/7/2022 2:16:37 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Perhaps that causes the youthful workers to liquidate the woke DEI types at companies. I've seen this script before. You would think that. However older conservatives will likely be purged. |
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Posted: 7/7/2022 2:20:17 PM EDT
[#31]
No more immigrants, no more outsourcing.
You take assets and jobs overseas, you get annihilated with punitive taxes. Fuck you, MAGA, not Bangalore. |
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Posted: 7/7/2022 2:51:09 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: At this point fuck work. I’m GenX, mid 40’s, make six figures, but my career is not rewarding for me, I only do it for the money. And 99% of the time would rather be doing something else Where is the application to be a Warlord when SHTF? So retire. If you do it right you should be able to with a decent safety cushion. |
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Posted: 7/7/2022 4:25:22 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: No more immigrants, no more outsourcing. You take assets and jobs overseas, you get annihilated with punitive taxes. Fuck you, MAGA, not Bangalore. Fuck that! Let these dumb companies wreck themselves. |
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Posted: 7/7/2022 5:00:33 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What it really screams is intellectually incurious generations fostered by a failed education system. Blaming "Boomers" is the last gasp of those who refuse to take responsibility for themselves. Get ready for your post "Boomer" economy. LOL Your new leftist overlords will demand you make up the taxation deficit. It's going to be painful, we paid A LOT of taxes. So, thank the Boomers. Those of us who have earned and paid taxes to give you an easy life.....it's going to be a lot less easy as we die off and you owe a society that demands more. Insert John Galt here...Google it. Fortunately for you, Biden is importing labor...oh wait. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: This all just screams BOOMER. What it really screams is intellectually incurious generations fostered by a failed education system. Blaming "Boomers" is the last gasp of those who refuse to take responsibility for themselves. Get ready for your post "Boomer" economy. LOL Your new leftist overlords will demand you make up the taxation deficit. It's going to be painful, we paid A LOT of taxes. So, thank the Boomers. Those of us who have earned and paid taxes to give you an easy life.....it's going to be a lot less easy as we die off and you owe a society that demands more. Insert John Galt here...Google it. Fortunately for you, Biden is importing labor...oh wait. You're as myopic as he is; do you think you'll die with money? It'll be taxed or sold off before you leave this realm. Unless you have fuck you amounts of money, it'll be gone. The big difference is unless you spent a lifetime building something that didn't require your physical labor, your earning days will be done. Have fun trying to rejoin the workforce in your 70s and 80s. |
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Posted: 7/7/2022 5:06:51 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: "Workers will feel fortunate to commit to a company and think about moving up rather than moving on. " That would mean companies would have to demonstrate promoting from within vs hiring from outside like they normally do. Because most of the folks I know that have changed companies is due to it being easier to "get promoted" somewhere else than the employer they've been with for 3-4 years. |
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Posted: 7/7/2022 5:10:30 PM EDT
[#36]
Not just "young employees" but this could impact everyone in the labor force.
Republicans are pushing for more Foreign Worker visas as well and of course the Democrats can't get enough foreigners into the country so you can guarantee that even high level jobs are going to be flooded with foreign candidates. We're being turned into slaves. It's that simple. Live in a pod, eat bugs, and commute through an urban Hell hole to work. You'll own nothing and be happy. The elites will be like living Gods and still dissatisfied so they'll increasingly look for more and more sadistic ways to increase their power and wealth. "If you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face—for ever." - George Orwell. |
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Posted: 7/7/2022 5:18:28 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That shit’s boomer as fuck. Clearly the author had an amazingly different experience for about a decade following ‘08 than the rest of the country. Super boomer as fuck. |
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Posted: 7/7/2022 5:24:48 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: "WTF. My Indian workers just gang raped my dog like it was a monitor lizard. Then they shat all over the place."  Attached File |
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Posted: 7/7/2022 5:36:32 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yea but it was his fault cuz he didn't do the final 5% the documentation part exactly right.... I'd be willing to bet of the kid who left was here, there is more to the story about a boomer boss that micromanaged and wasn't generally great to work for. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: So after you found out he was leaving you started fucking with him and instead of putting up with it the dude just left. Lol. Yea but it was his fault cuz he didn't do the final 5% the documentation part exactly right.... I'd be willing to bet of the kid who left was here, there is more to the story about a boomer boss that micromanaged and wasn't generally great to work for. |
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Posted: 7/7/2022 5:38:05 PM EDT
[#40]
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Posted: 7/7/2022 7:36:39 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: 2.2 % unemployment in my area and it's been rough for the last several years to find anyone worth a shit. I keep saying that companies around here just keep recycling the turds floating in the bowl. I just lost a young kid because he hurt himself last night and tested positive for weed at the doctor office. Ummm... was that a work related drug screen? Cuz if it was a medical test, NOT for worker's comp purposes, then its a HIPAA violation and probably not admissible in court. |
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Posted: 7/7/2022 7:55:39 PM EDT
[#42]
he’s missed the boat. The pool of qualified hardworking americans is decreasing rapidly, being replaced by lazy phone oriented sjw types. you may hire less of them but thats the fish in the sea now….
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Posted: 7/7/2022 8:14:56 PM EDT
[#43]
OK boomer
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Posted: 7/7/2022 8:26:10 PM EDT
[#44]
Maybe the old guy born in 1964 who makes at least 5+ million each year in a cushy job should shut the fuck up?
Wages have been decreasing since the 1980s. This was a correction, and not even a big one at that. However there will be a bubble burst in the private equity and SaaS world's, my guess is sooner rather than later. It's a freeforall like 1929 stock market, who can invest the most, try to flip it quickly and repeat. |
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Posted: 7/7/2022 8:41:18 PM EDT
[#45]
Young workers have to face a lot of harsh realities.
- Businesses have cut and then cut and then cut more to the point that older workers are handling multiple things and not doing super great at any of them but hanging in there until retirement. -There's no mentoring or training because the two old guys who know how to do things don't have time to train anyone new - The old timers bitch about how screwed up it is and how it used to be but the new guys just have to make judgement calls based off of what they see and hear - The old timers came up when the dollar bought something including a house in 1989 and an engineering degree didn't cost $90,000.00 to get - Today's kids have to spend what would have been a pretty decent house in the midwest and mid Atlantic to get their degree and then a car, insurance, etc. with other consumerisms dragging their money (like phones) with an increasingly inflated dollar - Companies are increasingly looking out of the country for help given the use of the Internet; I was told to look to the Philippines for new engineers rather than the US and on top of that with ESG driving some decisions things will only get worse - Today's graduates are tied to computers and phones and cannot imagine a world without them while older workers look at tech as helpful but not the solution in all cases I remember in 2001 when the tech bubble burst. I had been out of school a few years but not many. When I was getting laid off some of the older guys were like "first time huh?" Yeah. |
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Posted: 7/7/2022 8:45:07 PM EDT
[#46]
Bet hes longing for the days when Hawaiian shirt day was considered a major perk
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Posted: 7/7/2022 8:51:39 PM EDT
[#47]
Walked out of an armed security orientation today.
Cheap bastards wanted a $100 security deposit for uniforms. Also, the was a fella open carrying a Shield in attendence who, as it turned out, was high as shit. HR person said not to mention Marijuana on the drug screen paperwork. Dont get me wrong. Im cool with people OCing. I am also cool with people smoking weed. I am not cool with people being high AND armed at work. |
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Posted: 7/7/2022 9:08:03 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Perhaps, but with boomer retirement in full swing, the labor market has become permanently tighter. We're at 3.6% unemployment with 11.5 million open jobs. That's 0.1% off the lowest recorded unemployment level. US corporate management culture hasn't adjusted to the shift in the employee / employer balance of power that has occurred. Current management and HR practices are predicated on the labor glut that has persisted for the past 30+ years due to the size of the baby boom generation. Employers assume they can lowball workers on compensation and easily replace those who don't like it. That is no longer a reasonable assumption. I see you work with the same HR staff I do. I'm about ready to give them the Zeihan lesson in demographics becuae these guys are still running comp policy like it's 2012. |
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Posted: 7/7/2022 9:12:32 PM EDT
[#49]
Read this thread looking for the weird-flex workaholics with no life outside of work and are strangers to their kids.
Was not disappointed. |
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Posted: 7/7/2022 10:14:36 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I see you work with the same HR staff I do. I'm about ready to give them the Zeihan lesson in demographics becuae these guys are still running comp policy like it's 2012. Funny thing about Zeihan; the points he makes which are the most important and the most consequential if true are also the points which he is least likely to be mistaken about. |
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