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Posted: 2/1/2024 1:03:03 AM EDT
[#1]
The new dealer rule that just ended its comments period in Dec will go a long way to achieving ATF's goal here. If you rent a table at a gun show - you'll have to get an FFL. If you sell more than one gun a month - FFL. Sell a gun in the original box? FFL. Sell more than one gun of the same type - FFL. If you keep track of profit & loss on your guns - FFL. Etc, etc. Rule will likely be published this spring, courtesy of the Safer Communities Act of 2022 - that changed the definition of dealer in the GCA 68.
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Posted: 2/1/2024 1:04:20 AM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It will be difficult to enforce..... If private sales are banned, every firearm purchase made after that point is defacto registered. |
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Posted: 2/1/2024 1:11:02 AM EDT
[#3]
Progressives sure do pave a highway to hell with their hatred of the Constitution, don't they.
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Posted: 2/1/2024 1:11:43 AM EDT
[#4]
I appreciate everybody in here committing to civil disobedience, but as somebody who moved from a state that respected an individual's right to resell their property w/o state approval, to a state with better overall gun laws that doesn't respect the right of citizens to resell their property...
I am severely disappointed to find that all these supposed mountain libertarians cuck out and toe the line banning personal transfers. Blue state rebels have bigger balls in my experience, your milage may vary etc etc. |
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Posted: 2/1/2024 1:14:04 AM EDT
[#5]
In state commerce, they can’t.
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Posted: 2/1/2024 1:19:12 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: In state commerce, they can’t. Lol. You haven't followed the Constitutional history of the interstate commerce clause, have you? |
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Posted: 2/1/2024 1:24:52 AM EDT
[#7]
Fuck em.
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Posted: 2/1/2024 1:36:16 AM EDT
[#8]
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Posted: 2/1/2024 2:14:54 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: By default, everything already in circulation would be not worth the hassle. However, everything post -infringement could be easily enforced. Automatic self fulfilling grandfather clause, and we all know that only pussies push for or are ok with grandfather clauses. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Good luck enforcing that one, ATF.  By default, everything already in circulation would be not worth the hassle. However, everything post -infringement could be easily enforced. Automatic self fulfilling grandfather clause, and we all know that only pussies push for or are ok with grandfather clauses. @Papaw @Alnen123 The bigger issue, at least in my view, is that many online gun forums, especially the state specific ones which generate most of the face to face sales, will simply stop allowing the posting of sale ads all together. How do you continue to have private face to face sales when no one is willing to host the sale listings? I have no doubt that if the ATF creates a bogus rule against FTF sales, that many gun forums will simply remove their "for sale" sections or heavily modify them towards FFL transfer only.   I hope I'm wrong about this. Thoughts? |
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Posted: 2/1/2024 2:46:04 AM EDT
[#10]
What a coincidence! I'm working on a plan to end the ATF.
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Posted: 2/1/2024 3:22:54 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: @Papaw @Alnen123 The bigger issue, at least in my view, is that many online gun forums, especially the state specific ones which generate most of the face to face sales, will simply stop allowing the posting of sale ads all together. How do you continue to have private face to face sales when no one is willing to host the sale listings? I have no doubt that if the ATF creates a bogus rule against FTF sales, that many gun forums will simply remove their "for sale" sections or heavily modify them towards FFL transfer only. I hope I'm wrong about this. Thoughts? Here in Orgeon where they banned private sales before I showed up, the websites have no problem continuing with classifieds, and I've even found some great deals... Every supposed 2nd ammendment proponent I've bought a used gun from has insisted upon compliance with this backdoor registration, and I've not found a single freedom lover willing to do what was legal a few years ago, and sell me a gun after glancing at my chl in a parking lot Laws don't kill rights, compliance does. Look. At. Weed. |
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Posted: 2/1/2024 3:23:33 AM EDT
[#12]
COMPLETELY UNCONSTITUTIONAL
FUCK YOU ATF |
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Posted: 2/1/2024 3:45:06 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I imagine this has been in the works for decades, In hundreds of different forms, and different shit bag leaders. They've already done it with bumpstocks, braces, FRTs, etc Either now, or especially if PotatoHead wins in November, they will move forward with it. And all the more so if they can tie it in with some mass shooting that they or their supporters encouraged. |
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Posted: 2/1/2024 3:53:36 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It's been coming, and I don't see how it can be stopped. Tell people "you can resell your car to anybody, who knows if their license is real or they have insurance", they tell you yes of course that's fine, tell people you did the same with a rifle and their brains melt. The same people who "support closing the gun show loophole" will tell you they think it should be fine to sell your neighbor your old rifle or give your daughter in law a handgun for Christmas. Sneaky language can sell anything to anybody it seems. Another troll/TWP clone |
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Posted: 2/1/2024 3:55:19 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: click Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: It's been coming, and I don't see how it can be stopped. Tell people "you can resell your car to anybody, who knows if their license is real or they have insurance", they tell you yes of course that's fine, tell people you did the same with a rifle and their brains melt. The same people who "support closing the gun show loophole" will tell you they think it should be fine to sell your neighbor your old rifle or give your daughter in law a handgun for Christmas. Sneaky language can sell anything to anybody it seems. |
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Posted: 2/1/2024 3:57:34 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They already did. Safer Communities Act, 2022. They got a few RINOs to go along with that lunacy. It irritates me every time I hear them mention the name of that bill . |
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Posted: 2/1/2024 4:30:30 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Lol. You haven't followed the Constitutional history of the interstate commerce clause, have you? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: In state commerce, they can’t. Lol. You haven't followed the Constitutional history of the interstate commerce clause, have you? US v Lopez "To uphold the Government's contentions here, we would have to pile inference upon inference in a manner that would bid fair to convert congressional authority under the Commerce Clause to a general police power of the sort retained by the States. Admittedly, some of our prior cases have taken long steps down that road, giving great deference to congressional action. See supra, at 8. The broad language in these opinions has suggested the possibility of additional expansion, but we decline here to proceed any further. To do so would require us to conclude that the Constitution's enumeration of powers does not presuppose something not enumerated, cf. Gibbons v. Ogden, supra, at 195, and that there never will be a distinction between what is truly national and what is truly local, cf. Jones & Laughlin Steel, supra, at 30. This we are unwilling to do." |
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Posted: 2/1/2024 5:48:57 AM EDT
[#18]
Instead of banning private sales, they should just open up a transfer portal where people can perform a person to person transfer with a quick background check to ensure you aren’t doing a private transfer to a felon.
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Posted: 2/1/2024 5:52:42 AM EDT
[#19]
Chevron
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Posted: 2/1/2024 6:39:21 AM EDT
[#20]
Hawaii uh uh, Texas judge I mean in 3-2-1
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Posted: 2/1/2024 6:42:10 AM EDT
[#21]
So dickless Joe Biden wants to ban private sales, i bet the Trump haters are upset all they want to talk about is how terrible Trump was for 2A.
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Posted: 2/1/2024 6:42:58 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: lol how will they preemptively know…. 4473s sure, but what those are sold FTF? fuck off ATF Registration |
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Posted: 2/1/2024 6:45:55 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Instead of banning private sales, they should just open up a transfer portal where people can perform a person to person transfer with a quick background check to ensure you aren’t doing a private transfer to a felon. And rest assured the government won’t keep those records…lol |
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Posted: 2/1/2024 6:48:03 AM EDT
[#24]
The Batfe is a rogue outfit. It needs to be disbanded and leadership should be tried for subverting the Constitution.
You know, like the J6 protesters were. |
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Posted: 2/1/2024 6:56:09 AM EDT
[#25]
Legal or not that's what's going to happen.
The administrators will simply write it anyways, enforce it, while the Constitution challenges go on. Then when overturned they write the same regulation with a different word or two and start enforcing them forcing the taxpayers to spend millions to fight the government once again. |
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Posted: 2/1/2024 7:29:56 AM EDT
[#26]
All they really have to do is go after websites where the advertising of private sales occurs. I'm betting on that angle, claiming they're dealing without a license and try to threaten as many as they can out of the game.
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Posted: 2/1/2024 7:31:16 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The new dealer rule that just ended its comments period in Dec will go a long way to achieving ATF's goal here. If you rent a table at a gun show - you'll have to get an FFL. If you sell more than one gun a month - FFL. Sell a gun in the original box? FFL. Sell more than one gun of the same type - FFL. If you keep track of profit & loss on your guns - FFL. Etc, etc. Rule will likely be published this spring, courtesy of the Safer Communities Act of 2022 - that changed the definition of dealer in the GCA 68. Finally, some good commentary as to HOW ATF would go about this. I'm just quite unsure how ATF thinks this is a good idea; given that they're getting their hands smacked on first the Pistol Brace Rule, then the Bump Stock Rule, then the Receiver Rule, and now we have that SCOTUS case coming up that will determine chevron.  I mean yeah, I know they're true believers over there at ATF; but at some point, wouldn't reality insert itself and say "hey, even though we're the feds, wouldn't the juice not be worth the squeeze"? |
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Posted: 2/1/2024 7:42:43 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: now we have that SCOTUS case coming up that will determine chevron. |
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Posted: 2/1/2024 8:12:50 AM EDT
[#29]
What if they somehow tie your current ownership to a tax form declaration. Say list serial number, make and model and pay a modest federal tax.
Maybe that's why they need 30k IRS guys. |
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Posted: 2/1/2024 8:15:13 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Lol. You haven't followed the Constitutional history of the interstate commerce clause, have you? He missed the day they covered Wickard v Fillburn. |
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Posted: 2/1/2024 8:16:54 AM EDT
[#31]
How do you build a list?
Make every transaction trackable. |
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Posted: 2/1/2024 8:17:03 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Why pass a law? Orange Julius, or the next Puppeteer, will just do it by executive fiat. Take the guns first, due process second. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: FATF try passing a law Why pass a law? Orange Julius, or the next Puppeteer, will just do it by executive fiat. Take the guns first, due process second. Avatar not very fitting |
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Posted: 2/1/2024 8:21:22 AM EDT
[#33]
will not pass through the supreme court. The executive branch enforces the laws that congress passes. Not the other way around.
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Posted: 2/1/2024 8:23:59 AM EDT
[#34]
It won’t survive a court challenge but I welcome them to roll this out in an election year.
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Posted: 2/1/2024 8:37:32 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If private sales are banned, every firearm purchase made after that point is defacto registered. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: It will be difficult to enforce..... If private sales are banned, every firearm purchase made after that point is defacto registered. How many states that already allow face to face sales, will go along with it? It's still going to happen no matter what they do |
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Posted: 2/1/2024 8:48:16 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The new dealer rule that just ended its comments period in Dec will go a long way to achieving ATF's goal here. If you rent a table at a gun show - you'll have to get an FFL. If you sell more than one gun a month - FFL. Sell a gun in the original box? FFL. Sell more than one gun of the same type - FFL. If you keep track of profit & loss on your guns - FFL. Etc, etc. Rule will likely be published this spring, courtesy of the Safer Communities Act of 2022 - that changed the definition of dealer in the GCA 68. Third page before someone realized they already passed the law that lets them do this. John Cornyn……. |
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Posted: 2/1/2024 8:48:19 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Finally, some good commentary as to HOW ATF would go about this. I'm just quite unsure how ATF thinks this is a good idea; given that they're getting their hands smacked on first the Pistol Brace Rule, then the Bump Stock Rule, then the Receiver Rule, and now we have that SCOTUS case coming up that will determine chevron. I mean yeah, I know they're true believers over there at ATF; but at some point, wouldn't reality insert itself and say "hey, even though we're the feds, wouldn't the juice not be worth the squeeze"? Why wouldn't it be? If nothing else it's a make-work project for all their employees to just endlessly throw shit at the wall until it either sticks or piles up on the floor high enough to cover it anyway. Every part of the process for them is paid for by someone else's taxes anyway, so all they really have to do is look busy and important and they're all set for life. |
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Posted: 2/1/2024 8:49:01 AM EDT
[#38]
They have to draft off the wall reports to show that they are necessary to the system. If they just sat back and did their day to day operations (IE their actual job) the budget and the numbers of employees could probably be cut by a MASSIVE amount. This happens every day at companies all over the world on some scale. This is the same reason some small towns have 0-2 law enforcement and others have a dozen they do stupid shit like shoot radar for 8hrs on a road that might see 20 cars a day. There isn't more crime. They have created a fabricated need and have to justify it.
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Posted: 2/1/2024 8:51:15 AM EDT
[#39]
I’ve got a rule too, fuck em!
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Posted: 2/1/2024 8:53:59 AM EDT
[#40]
If a "law" is written by a tyrannical or corrupt government... Is it really a "law" ???
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Posted: 2/1/2024 8:55:02 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Third page before someone realized they already passed the law that lets them do this. John Cornyn……. Commented on, not realized. We were sold out by some white haired 'principled conservative' type with a guaranteed-for-life senate seat by a detached and ignorant voter base. In other shocking news, it's Thursday. I just hope the goodwill and spirit of compromise they bought at the cost of our essential liberties is worth it to them
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Posted: 2/1/2024 8:55:19 AM EDT
[#42]
I have a better idea.
I give them the finger. Then I drop my pants. Then the ATF (every single bootlicking cocksucker employed there) can take a turn at sucking my dick. |
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Posted: 2/1/2024 8:55:45 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They can fuck right off. What I do with my private property is my business.  Attached File |
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Posted: 2/1/2024 9:00:30 AM EDT
[#44]
How can universal background check laws be enforced without 100% firearms registration? They can’t, so I guess we know what comes next…
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Posted: 2/1/2024 9:11:28 AM EDT
[#45]
They’d need every recorded/ documented sale prior to today….
Luckily thats not a thing! No, wait…. |
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Posted: 2/1/2024 9:39:38 AM EDT
[#46]
Those guys are fags
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Posted: 2/1/2024 9:41:20 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They’d need every recorded/ documented sale prior to today…. Luckily thats not a thing! No, wait…. Don't worry, they'll backfill the list with illegal data collection on gun store purchases and search terms handed over by Google and you'll probably be betrayed by Siri and Alexa and Bixby anyway. Or, y'know, they'll just read stuff here and figure it out. |
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Posted: 2/1/2024 9:43:09 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If private sales are banned, every firearm purchase made after that point is defacto registered. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: It will be difficult to enforce..... If private sales are banned, every firearm purchase made after that point is defacto registered. At least around here, it more means that every sale will be unregistered. I still buy guns at yard sales. Nobody gives a fuck what ATF thinks in rural areas. Last I knew, their nearest office is 3 states away. |
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Posted: 2/1/2024 9:43:12 AM EDT
[#49]
Odd. I read in a recent thread that both candidates are just as bad.
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Posted: 2/1/2024 9:50:28 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The only new laws should come from Congress This is going to sound radical but hear me out. How about no new laws and we start examining which ones we need to ditch? |
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